New Car in January.. currently driving 1.4 petrol civic

micks_address

Hi folks,

Have a 2005 low enough mileage 1.4 petrol honda civic. Thinking of changing in January and want to do some test drives now. I like Honda and was thinking of the 1.6 diesel civic. We have 2 kids so its a 2 plus 2 scenario on most journeys. We do about 15 thousand k per year, a lot of it is short journey shopping trips with 10 to 15 long 500k round trips each year.

We were also thinking of maybe a 2012 Octavia 1.6 diesel ...

Im interested to hear what people think of the new civic range. What is ride noise like? With our 2005 you cant really hear music if you are doing 120 on the motorway.. is the newer ranger quieter?

I've driven the octavia and like it for its fuel economy but any gargage I have talked to so far tell me we are better off going with petrol as we dont do the mileage to justify a diesel car.

Any advice on what to test drive appreciated. Our own car is taxed will next april and nct'd tll 2015 so no major panic in replacing it. Would just like something with better economy and comfort really.

Cheers,
Mick

TGi666

for the milage you are doing a petrol would probably be a better option in the long run

Tea 1000

Petrol would be better alright for that mileage. There are two Civic models since your one, and the latest has greatly improved sound insulating.

ba_barabus

Petrol Civic would be my choice of the two although the 1.2TSI in the petrol Octavias matched with a 6 speed box aren't bad.

The Octavia is a bit dated and has just been replaced

Ded_Zebra

ba_barabus wrote: »

Petrol Civic would be my choice of the two although the 1.2TSI in the petrol Octavias matched with a 6 speed box aren't bad.

The Octavia is a bit dated and has just been replaced

The fact that they put that engine in the Octavia is a crime IMO seeing as the car weighs around 1,300kg. That engine only belongs in the Polo and The Up and what ever the skada equivalents are.

Matthewjohn

Its turbocharged with 105 bhp its punchy enough.

ba_barabus

Ded_Zebra wrote: »

The fact that they put that engine in the Octavia is a crime IMO seeing as the car weighs around 1,300kg. That engine only belongs in the Polo and The Up and what ever the skada equivalents are.

I've been tooling around in a Yeti with it and I've found it more than adequate. It's perfect as a piece of A to B transport for a low mileage driver who just wants their car to serve a purpose.

It's never going to be a performance car. I'd certainly agree the Civic is a better choice but nothing wrong with a TSI

Ded_Zebra

Matthewjohn wrote: »

Its turbocharged with 105 bhp its punchy enough.

I am aware of that.

105bhp in a car of that weight is ridiculous IMO. Still not as **** as the na 1.4 though:rolleyes:

Tea 1000

Ded_Zebra wrote: »

I am aware of that.

105bhp in a car of that weight is ridiculous IMO. Still not as **** as the na 1.4 though:rolleyes:

Majority of people don't notice or care. Look how many 1.4 75bhp Golf's are on the road. Sure folk in this country are convinced the 130bhp TDI is quick, and that there's no earthly reason to have any more than 170bhp in the diesel VRS!

Ded_Zebra

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Majority of people don't notice or care. Look how many 1.4 75bhp Golf's are on the road. Sure folk in this country are convinced the 130bhp TDI is quick, and that there's no earthly reason to have any more than 170bhp in the diesel VRS!

I think they notice but they don't care and it's the cheapest way they can live the luxury(lol) VAG dream :rolleyes:

micks_address

Ive been told the resale value on the petrol octavias isnt great? we kept the current car since 2005 when we bought it new, it hasnt given us an ounce of trouble, just regular services, timing belt and tyres. break pads etc.. we might keep our next car just as long, will definitely look at the ES line in either the petrol or diesel civics.. (my wife wants cruise control)

From the price list
Engine Price Co2 Emmissions Tax Band Road Tax

2. Civic 1.4 i-VTEC ES €23,235 129 g/km B1 €270

or
Engine Price Co2 Emmissions Tax Band Road Tax

9. Civic 1.6 i-DTEC ES €25,095 94 g/km A2 €180

The diesel is 1860 more expensive starting out prices but is at the moment 90 euro a year cheaper to tax, that may change though and you'd be on cheaper fuel with better fuel economy. If you were going to keep the car for more than 5 years would that make sense?

The other thing I've been told is that is you arent doing the mileage you are going to run into problems with diesels with dpf filters clogging and that diesel is more expensive to service in the long run?

Also toying with the idea of buying a 2012 car or 2013 car when the time comes from the north, if there's value to be had?

From the few garages I've been in recently they have offered me about 5k for our own car, so if i got that i'd be happy enough. I'd be tempted to try and sell it privately first to maximise my buying power but its just the hassle of going down that road.

Cheers,
Mick

Engine Price Co2 Emmissions Tax Band Road Tax
1. Civic 1.4 i-VTEC SE €21,895 129 g/km B1 €270
2. Civic 1.4 i-VTEC ES €23,235 129 g/km B1 €270
3. Civic 1.8 i-VTEC ES €25,265 143 g/km C €390
4. Civic 1.8 i-VTEC EX €28,405 143 g/km C €390
5. Civic 1.8 i-VTEC SE Auto €25,745 148 g/km C €390
6. Civic 1.8 i-VTEC ES Auto €27,175 148 g/km C €390
7. Civic 1.8 i-VTEC EX Auto €30,315 148 g/km C €390
8. Civic 1.6 i-DTEC SE €23,975 94 g/km A2 €180
9. Civic 1.6 i-DTEC ES €25,095 94 g/km A2 €180
10. Civic 1.6 i-DTEC EX €28,330 94 g/km A2 €180
11. Civic 2.2 i-DTEC SE €25,995 110 g/km A3 €190
12. Civic 2.2 i-DTEC ES €26,995 110 g/km A3 €190
13. Civic 2.2 i-DTEC EX €30,395 110 g/km A3 €190

ba_barabus wrote: »

Petrol Civic would be my choice of the two although the 1.2TSI in the petrol Octavias matched with a 6 speed box aren't bad.

The Octavia is a bit dated and has just been replaced

Zcott

Mechanically it's really too early to say if the Civic has any issues because it's still only a year old. But I still think I prefer the styling of the 06-12 Civic, they took a step backwards with the new one :-(

micks_address

i guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.. but i actually prefer the new design.. i think the 1.6 diesel only became an option in january 2013? so if im looking at the secondhand market the oldest car i could buy in that would be jan 2013?

Zcott wrote: »

Mechanically it's really too early to say if the Civic has any issues because it's still only a year old. But I still think I prefer the styling of the 06-12 Civic, they took a step backwards with the new one :-(

Tea 1000

Yep, December 2012 you might find one or two, but essentially this year that 1.6 came out. I wouldn't bother importing one that new, if it's less than 6 months old you need to pay VAT as well as VRT, and try then to get a VAT rebate from the UK. You'll be doing a lot of messing to save feck all.
What kind of driving do you do? Are the runs all short? That's the sort of driving that really doesn't suit diesel. €90 difference in tax means that it'll take 20 years to recoup the difference in purchase price. So even if the gap widens, it won't widen that much. Difference in fuel economy won't be massive given your tiny mileage, and there really is significantly less risk with problems from the petrol Civic.

micks_address

So the petrol looks like the safer.. cheaper option?

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Yep, December 2012 you might find one or two, but essentially this year that 1.6 came out. I wouldn't bother importing one that new, if it's less than 6 months old you need to pay VAT as well as VRT, and try then to get a VAT rebate from the UK. You'll be doing a lot of messing to save feck all.
What kind of driving do you do? Are the runs all short? That's the sort of driving that really doesn't suit diesel. €90 difference in tax means that it'll take 20 years to recoup the difference in purchase price. So even if the gap widens, it won't widen that much. Difference in fuel economy won't be massive given your tiny mileage, and there really is significantly less risk with problems from the petrol Civic.

bazz26

There is no guarantee that motor tax is going to stay cheap on diesel cars either so I would not let motor tax which is a small factor in the overall running costs of the car, be a major deciding factor. Diesels will not be flavor of the month forever. Also as said diesel engines do not like short stop/start journeys as they take longer to warm up than petrol engines.

micks_address

Just a quick update, we took a new civic for a test drive on saturday. 5 door model. Happened to be the 1.6 diesel they had available and were pushing it big time.. anyway the car is lovely and the spec is great (es model) but we are going to have to rule it out based on space in the back. Compared to our 05 5 door its much less spacious in the back, i couldnt sit back in the back seats without hitting my head off the roof. Headroom was fine in the front, the drive was lovely and the engine seems great to but it looks like we are probably going to have to go for something bigger, maybe an Octavia.. changing jobs in the next few months so depending on location i might be doing more mileage so that will also help dictate the decision but for now the civic is out of the equation. I know they are releasing an estate civic next year, which might fir the bill, but as we wre going to probably buy a two year old car it will be beyond budget

Cheers,
Mick

Zcott

micks_address wrote: »

Compared to our 05 5 door its much less spacious in the back, i couldnt sit back in the back seats without hitting my head off the roof

Shouldn't you be sitting in the front driving it? ;-)

micks_address

yes... usually i am.. but we do carry some adults in the back.. and im not always the one driving.. my point is for taller people the headroom just isnt great unfortunately

Zcott wrote: »

Shouldn't you be sitting in the front driving it? ;-)

bazz26

I know they are not the best in class and they easily get slated here but the Toyota Auris might suit you. My father has a 2009 1.33 litre petrol TR model originally from the UK and while it doesn't do anything particularly great, it doesn't do anything particularly bad either. One thing of note is that it is quite a tall car and I have noticed that rear space and particularly rear head room is very good in them. You could probably get a facelifted 2010/2011 1.4 D-4D TR or Luna model within your budget.

Photoshop

I would go with an Estate OP.

When you get used to one and all the stuff you can carry, you will never go back to a cramped hatchback/saloon.

Avensis would be my choice, some great deals on them.

Avensis 2013 24k

http://www.driving.ie/used-cars/Toyota/Avensis/2.0-D4D/31313491079674450/

Wouldn't be that concerned with 15k a year on a diesel, it's not that low milage, as long as you go on a few long runs now and again it should be fine.

micks_address

i wouldnt mind.. but my wife would be afraid of the size for parking etc.. she is afraid to go much bigger than the civic..

Photoshop wrote: »

I would go with an Estate OP.

When you get used to one and all the stuff you can carry, you will never go back to a cramped hatchback/saloon.

Avensis would be my choice, some great deals on them.

Avensis 2013 24k

http://www.driving.ie/used-cars/Toyota/Avensis/2.0-D4D/31313491079674450/

Wouldn't be that concerned with 15k a year on a diesel, it's not that low milage, as long as you go on a few long runs now and again it should be fine.

NobodyImportant

Do you often have tall people in the back? Would it be for long journeys? I wouldnt rule a car out just because the occasional complaint from the back seats.

Plus, if you are trading in, Honda dealer would probably give you the better deal as you are trading in a Honda.

JohnBoy26

don't rule out a Hyundai i30, Kia cee'd or even the new model Auris. All come in estate versions and aren't that big and awkward like some estates from the class above but still offer a good bit more space than the hatchback versions.

Frazedame

We have a 07 civic 1.8 es. Loads of room in the back, i'm 6ft not an issue. Been stuck in there the last few days as the old dear has been over to vist.
AS for the petrol vs diesel ours is getting according to the computer on the car about 43mpg or 6.5L /100.

The J Stands for Jay

bazz26 wrote: »

There is no guarantee that motor tax is going to stay cheap on diesel cars either so I would not let motor tax which is a small factor in the overall running costs of the car, be a major deciding factor. Diesels will not be flavor of the month forever. Also as said diesel engines do not like short stop/start journeys as they take longer to warm up than petrol engines.

What sort of minimum mileage would be needed for a diesel? I do about 10,000 miles in a year.

Similar case here, petrol 1.4 thinking of changing to soemthing newer. I reckon we don't do the mileage for diesel, but the wife is always telling me how cheap her friend's new diesel is to run.

MuppetCheck

If you do small mileage but on long runs then you'll be fine. If they are mostly short trips then a modern diesel won't suit.

Usage type above mileage is the best deciding factor for a diesel these days since the majority of newer cars are diesel and decent petrol cars are few and far between.

The J Stands for Jay

Mainly small trips. Occasional trips to West Cork and Donegal (from dublin).

MuppetCheck

Petrol then for sure.

bazz26

McGaggs wrote: »

What sort of minimum mileage would be needed for a diesel? I do about 10,000 miles in a year.

Similar case here, petrol 1.4 thinking of changing to soemthing newer. I reckon we don't do the mileage for diesel, but the wife is always telling me how cheap her friend's new diesel is to run.

It's not just the low mileage, its the driving style. Short stop/start journey are not suited to a diesel engine. They also need time to warm up so are not very frugal when cold.

So do the maths on how much a diesel costs over a similar petrol car, calculate how much you can save in fill ups at the pump x 10000 miles per year and see how long it will take you to actually be financially better off with a diesel car. Most people only see the savings at the pump.

The J Stands for Jay

bazz26 wrote: »

It's not just the low mileage, its the driving style. Short stop/start journey are not suited to a diesel engine. They also need time to warm up so are not very frugal when cold.

So do the maths on how much a diesel costs over a similar petrol car, calculate how much you can save in fill ups at the pump x 10000 miles per year and see how long it will take you to actually be financially better off with a diesel car. Most people only see the savings at the pump.

Just taking MPG data from honestjohn.co.uk for a 2007 Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi (59MPG), I would save €780 a year in fuel costs. During the week I'd do mainly <5 miles trips. Longer at weekends. I'm not convinced that would be good for a diesel, but I never realised the savings could be that much (even after an increase in tax of €186).

MuppetCheck

You won't be getting 59mpg on short spins so the saving won't be as much.

Shane Fitz

McGaggs wrote: »

Just taking MPG data from honestjohn.co.uk for a 2007 Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi (59MPG), I would save €780 a year in fuel costs. During the week I'd do mainly <5 miles trips. Longer at weekends. I'm not convinced that would be good for a diesel, but I never realised the savings could be that much (even after an increase in tax of €186).

Not being a smart ass, more a dumb ass, but could you show how you worked that out, and what prices you used for petrol and diesel?

bazz26

McGaggs wrote: »

Just taking MPG data from honestjohn.co.uk for a 2007 Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi (59MPG), I would save €780 a year in fuel costs. During the week I'd do mainly <5 miles trips. Longer at weekends. I'm not convinced that would be good for a diesel, but I never realised the savings could be that much (even after an increase in tax of €186).

You will not get 59mpg from a diesel from doing short runs. How much of a premium will you pay in the purchase price of a 2007 Focus diesel compared to the price of a 2007 Focus petrol? Also what about repairs or replacement parts. If you are unfortunately to need to replace the turbo, flywheel or particular filter which are all common failures on modern diesel engines then the cost of any of these will blow away any small savings you make at the pump.

Imo you seem to have convinced yourself already but don't seem to realise that fuel costs are not always the biggest part of car ownership.

JohnBoy26

McGaggs wrote: »

Just taking MPG data from honestjohn.co.uk for a 2007 Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi (59MPG), I would save €780 a year in fuel costs. During the week I'd do mainly <5 miles trips. Longer at weekends. I'm not convinced that would be good for a diesel, but I never realised the savings could be that much (even after an increase in tax of €186).

These are well known to give issues with turbos amongst other things. Doing stop start driving will most likely cause issues like the above to arise which will wipe out and exceed what you have saved on fuel.