My Garden..... Ideas please

tomthumb101

Hey,

I have attached pictures below.

Basically I have been battling with this garden for last 4 years, I don't have a big budget and just want to level and plant grass.

On three occasions I have had a mini excavator in clearing the weeds and heading etc. but every time I get it clear it seems to rain for days the. I can't rake then something always comes up and before I know it boom it's all covered again.

So I'm looking to get advice, I need to know the flowing

- can I just get top soil and cover the garden rake and seed
- or must I spray first then wait for it to die, then rake then top soil
- how much top soil would I need for 15meter wide 22 meter long garden
- or any other ideas to help me out

All help appreciated

Please Please keep in mind I have 100's as a budget not 1000's

Cheers

catastrophy

If I were you I'd spray off all the growth first. Wait a few weeks and then spray off any new weed growth. You will never get rid of all weed seeds in the soil but by doing this you can reduce them. Once the ground is sprayed off I'd plough, rotovate and till it. Then it's time to seed it. Of course you can always just rotovate it after spraying and then seed.

If your going for the first option I'd wait till late next winter/spring to avoid rampant weed growth.

Unless your soil is of very poor quality I wouldn't get in topsoil. The risk of getting something nasty like Japanese knotweed is not worth it imo.

Good luck with it anyway. It looks like a great spot.

catastrophy

Forgot to say that you should prob strim it all down first.

magicbastarder

i'd say just mow it repeatedly for the next few months and see how you fare.

tinofapples

tomthumb101 wrote: »

Hey,

I have attached pictures below.

Basically I have been battling with this garden for last 4 years, I don't have a big budget and just want to level and plant grass.

On three occasions I have had a mini excavator in clearing the weeds and heading etc. but every time I get it clear it seems to rain for days the. I can't rake then something always comes up and before I know it boom it's all covered again.

So I'm looking to get advice, I need to know the flowing

- can I just get top soil and cover the garden rake and seed
- or must I spray first then wait for it to die, then rake then top soil
- how much top soil would I need for 15meter wide 22 meter long garden
- or any other ideas to help me out

All help appreciated

Please Please keep in mind I have 100's as a budget not 1000's

Cheers

You're situation sounds very similar to mine. Got caught out by the weather as well last year. Was determined not to be looking out the back this year at weed growth.

tomthumb101

Yes I wanted to have a back garden to enjoy not, pull the blinds on!

No point in cutting and cutting sure it's just all weeds.

Sounds like a long process if I strim everything then kill off, sounds like will be back to square one this time next year.

The soil I have is good quality but renovating 15 m by 22m garden just seems like a lot of work..

But if that's the only way then that's the only way!

But any more suggestions gladly welcomed

Happyman42

MB is right. My veg garden was like that (worse actually) mow it and keep mowing it and the grass will win the battle. I have nice grass paths now through the garden, not lawn quality but nice. At least it might let you work it in sections.

tinofapples

catastrophy wrote: »

If I were you I'd spray off all the growth first. Wait a few weeks and then spray off any new weed growth. You will never get rid of all weed seeds in the soil but by doing this you can reduce them. Once the ground is sprayed off I'd plough, rotovate and till it. Then it's time to seed it. Of course you can always just rotovate it after spraying and then seed.

If your going for the first option I'd wait till late next winter/spring to avoid rampant weed growth.

Unless your soil is of very poor quality I wouldn't get in topsoil. The risk of getting something nasty like Japanese knotweed is not worth it imo.

Good luck with it anyway. It looks like a great spot.

This is probably want I would do in your situation, I did all this last late summer with a view to sowing lawn seed in Sept. Unfortunately the rains arrived before I could finish levelling the ground after it had been sprayed rotovated and de-stoned. This year I got my ground sprayed early and rotovated it again with a 4wd quad and harrow, rolled it and just sowed it at the weekend with lawn seed I had left over from the front garden. My wife has to water it in the evening time (I'm working). I'm not looking for Wimbledon grade turf but just something useable for the kids and not bloody weed overgrowth again

Does anyone know will lawn seed keep for 3 years as long as it's bagged in a cool dark dry place ?

magicbastarder

tomthumb101 wrote: »

No point in cutting and cutting sure it's just all weeds.

weeds have not evolved to cope with constant mowing the way grass does - grass evolved to be able to cope with being browsed.

redser7

Regular mowing will weaken and eventually kill off a lot of weeds.
It sounds like you are pretty much doing this on your own, right? In that case the area is huge. I'm not sure you could handle the whole plot in one go on your own. I think nature will always win the race and overtake your best efforts. So maybe consider it a 2 or 3 year job and break the area into manageable sections. Cover sections of it with plastic or cardboard and let it go fallow as such. This will kill most weeds off and leave the soil more approacable. While this is happening work on one section digging out the weeds and sowing grass seed.

nikkime

Firstly thats a brilliant size garden so it's defo worth doing it right - and if you're budgets a bit tight don't worry there's still loads you can do...for the weeds you could even make your own home made organic weed killer - Home Made Weed Killer .... and here's another blog with loads of great ideas how to do your garden up for cheap - Gardening Ideas

With a bit of hard work and some good ideas you can really do loads with that garden!

kylith

Be careful with home made weedkillers. Many of them would be ok for paths and the like but anything with vinegar or baking soda is going to alter the pH of the soil. Any with salt steer well clear of; there's a reason the Romans used to sow their enemies' land with salt.

Sgt Pepper 64

kylith wrote: »

Be careful with home made weedkillers. Many of them would be ok for paths and the like but anything with vinegar or baking soda is going to alter the pH of the soil. Any with salt steer well clear of; there's a reason the Romans used to sow their enemies' land with salt.

I'd take that with a pinch of salt
When Scipio sacked Carthage at the end of the Third Punic War in 146 BC, it's not out of the question that he salted the ground. Salt was readily available at salt works and brine springs all over Italy, and the Romans had conquered Carthaginian salt works in north Africa. However, no ancient account says anything about salting the ground - that twist may have originated with the 19th-century German historian Ferdinand Gregorovius, who mentions it in his History of the City of Rome in the Middle Ages. Gregorovius's contemporary Theodor Mommsen says the Roman senate ordered the site of Carthage to be plowed under, but even that's debatable. Whatever fearsome measures may have been adopted, they didn't take; the site was reinhabited within a century and developed into a thriving Roman city.

Plus many citys salt their roads in winter, yet the verges come up nice and green. Putting salt directly on plants affects them alright! But youd have to have quite a quantitiy and depth of salt to have an impact, especialy as rain will soon wash it away

PhotogTom

I think you can do it. Strim, spray, two weeks, spray again, two weeks then, 1 day with a rotovator, rake stones until you can't rake any more and then roll it. Sounds counterintuitive but grass seed wants a firm bed not loose fluffy soil. So firm it up with a roller from the hire shop. Then make sure it doesn't dry out - as if, in Ireland!
You're really only talking one full day of hardship - rotovate, rake and roll.
In 60 days time you'll have a lawn. No reason not to do it now as the weather will be plenty warm for grass growth in 60 days.
One caution is to tread gently (or not at all) over the winter but by next spring you'll be grand.
That's what we did on a similar plot that was infested with meadow weeds, brambles and nettle. We now have a lovely (well still a few weeds but at least its level and green!) lawn.
Other's advice to mow the lawn tight is right on as that will reduce weeds as much as anything.
Good luck.

joseph brand

Another thing is, try to get a compost bin. If you're on a budget, you could dump all the weeds down the back of the garden, letting them rot there in a compost pile.

It looks like there will be a lot of weeds that need moving, and a compost bin is so handy. It'll take all your grass clippings when you finally have a lawn.

Also, judging by the size of your garden, you could break it up with raised beds, thus reducing the amount of ground that needs turning/ weeding and producing your own vegetables. This is only my second year growing my own and it's very rewarding in more ways than one.

You're lucky if you do indeed have good quality soil. Clay soil is a headache (and backache) to deal with, as regards establishing a lawn. I had to plant clover seeds, to help feed the grass (nitrogen fixing) and give me green where I had yellowish-brown, bare patches, due to clay soil compaction.

kylith

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

I'd take that with a pinch of salt
When Scipio sacked Carthage at the end of the Third Punic War in 146 BC, it's not out of the question that he salted the ground. Salt was readily available at salt works and brine springs all over Italy, and the Romans had conquered Carthaginian salt works in north Africa. However, no ancient account says anything about salting the ground - that twist may have originated with the 19th-century German historian Ferdinand Gregorovius, who mentions it in his History of the City of Rome in the Middle Ages. Gregorovius's contemporary Theodor Mommsen says the Roman senate ordered the site of Carthage to be plowed under, but even that's debatable. Whatever fearsome measures may have been adopted, they didn't take; the site was reinhabited within a century and developed into a thriving Roman city.

Plus many citys salt their roads in winter, yet the verges come up nice and green. Putting salt directly on plants affects them alright! But youd have to have quite a quantitiy and depth of salt to have an impact, especialy as rain will soon wash it away

So my history teachers lied to me then? Typical.

redser7

But they mentioned it in Gladiator!

Sgt Pepper 64

magicbastarder

rather than spraying, you could consider solarising the soil.
you'd need a lot of plastic, though:

http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn74145.html

Cork24

magicbastarder wrote: »

rather than spraying, you could consider solarising the soil.
you'd need a lot of plastic, though:

http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn74145.html

You can cover with Soil Mix, Sand / Clay / compost / perlite

Perlite helps with ph levels and keeps oxygen inside the soil good

Sonnenblumen

kylith wrote: »

Be careful with home made weedkillers. Many of them would be ok for paths and the like but anything with vinegar or baking soda is going to alter the pH of the soil. Any with salt steer well clear of; there's a reason the Romans used to sow their enemies' land with salt.

Do you really believe a cup of vinegar diluted in 5L of water is going to alter the pH of the soil for the longer term? Similarly using salt sparingly will have no consequential effects. Rain will eventually wash away any lingering traces as it does to fertilisers etc etc.

Overusing any substance could give rise to potential short term problems, but using home made weedkillers would not be a cause for any concern.

carlowplayer

mow.mow like youve never mowed before.Youll probably need 2-3 people to volunteer and share budget(particularly family members.Its best to start to use a strimmer to cut down all the weeds to size.Then use Round up systemic herbicide it will kill EVERYTHING.If the weeds are too dense to reach the soil/roots as the systemic herbicide only needs to reach the leaves where it enters them and then travels down to the roots to kill the plant entirely(cutting it down to size also lessens the amount of herbicide and its concentration you need to use.It doesnt stay too long and so then you can make a plan of your garden of where you want to put any flowerbeds /ponds/shrubs and any ornaments /furniture etc. more accurately .Next wait for at least a month and then apply topsoil and lawn seed.Consult anyone in a gardening store or arboretum ,garden manor etc that has a trained professional that can get you top soil to help you if you give them a picture(before and after weeding will help) and details of your garden they should give an idea of how much you need.Even getting of the weeds is progress enough.Also id get rid of those tiles.look cheap and unsightly.

Also with regards to systemic herbicides to get rid of any large bushy weeds you can also gather some good long stems without cutting them off.. Stuff the ends into a bag, as much of the plant as possible.. tie the opening of the bag round the stems so that the plant is in constant contact with the weedkiller..shake and squeeze the bag to ensure good coverage. Always wear gloves and eye protection( and face mask) when mixing and using chemicals herbicides are essentially poison and so dont take any risks.Usually a 5-10% should be effective if the concentration is too strong with a systemic herbicide they'll just "burn" the area it was applied to and not travel effectively to the roots at all.You can also apply systemic herbicides to any weeds growing in between desirealbe shrubs etc simply rub the weedkiller onto thick protective gloves(preferably rubber so it doesn't soak into the gloves and then your hands) and then the leaves of undesired plants.Also make sure to apply it on a dry day where there little wind and no rain to prevent it from washing away so keep an eye on the weather forecast. If you really want to kill everything and then decide to grass the lawn (and give yourself time to gain funds and a plan use Hyrotol Total Herbicide as it kills everything including seeds and does so for up to three months.Roundup usually is neutralised once it touches the soil and so rarely affects seeds and if its a systemic herbicide then it wont affect them at all.Maybe your best consulting someoene at a garden centre who sells topsoil and lawn seed before applying herbicide(these are just some of my ideas you could discuss with them).Dead weeds will have to picked up with protective gear and disposed of either by burning or in black rubbish

Also if it were me id take down the fencing to the left and replace it or at least paint and varnish it(its wooden is it?) then when your ready for your planting have potted climbing plants such as honeysuckle and passionflower,replace those gaudy tiles with brick tiles and have them leading out into the centre with an ornament ie sundial or bird bath or tall stone pot)and have modest sized pond in the back.You can also put a wodden arch leading into the garden from the start of the tiles.Remember be careful what plants you eventually plant it best to choose evergreen shrubs that bloom at or around the same time for consistency (do you want spring/summer/autumn/winter varieties and even then flowers are still divided into early/middle/late season varieties).Always with flowerbeds cover the planted bulbs and entire flowerbed with wood mulch in order to lock in water and also prevent an weeds from colonising your bed once they have been planted.Best try and go for perennials and definitely flowers that can be grow from seed ie are pollinated by insects and after they die a new bulb is created and grown after fertilization.Some bulbs you buy wont do this as it is a means for companies to get you to buy year after(again discuss this with some from a garden store and/or a landscaper.
Also make sure you dont plant invasive species ie some species of crocosmia that are found in the wild across Ireland are alien species as they have taken advantage of an ecosystem that cant handle them(but then again some species are not as aggressive as others)Beware rhododendron can also be aggressive as they can quickly get out of control, in fact some species actually form a symbiotic relationship with certain mould where they encourage the mould growth which in makes the soil toxic to all other plants except rhododendrons and even if you remove the plant entirely the soil is still contaminated for years.Further more some plants eg oleander and foxglove can be poisonous to pets/children so avoid them or fence them off with chicken wire.Once your garden is in tip top shape use selective herbicides to deal with any weeds that pop up
Looks like this could take your 1-2 years if you put the time at most but then again that depends on how much help you get.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p57bah6GxNw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ijkXBh2_6s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvFX1_w7Dp4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKs8vbvZca0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=HTdd2Hq4ut4&feature=fvwp

http://www.flickr.com/photos/92499048@N08/sets/72157634086079977/

This is my garden.Its huge divided into two areas.One on the right which was fully renovated two years ago and one on the left im going to working on myself.
Im considering planting flowering shrubs (forsythia,daphne gwenke,spirea,camellia,rose of sharon) along the area i used as a makeshift flowerbed this year to create a natural border between the left and right gardens as well as at the very back of the left garden.I plan to leave a small bare stone walkway in the flowerbed strip into the right garden.Ill probably put lavender around the tree and birdhouse and Thalictrums and lavender in between the two trees by the end of the garden (picture 05 and 06).Im also thinking of putting an Oleander Bush behind the shed and some Wegelia Merlot Pink along the side to the bottom of the garden.
I can put two shrubs at the very back of the garden(07).Im looking for any small climbing plant to cover the fence behind the shed.
I plan to put a large flowerbed at front of the left garden(pic 09) as far as the little crocosmia plants to left(the entire area to there so in the summer one can look out there and admire the view while sunbathing.As for the oil resovoir Im going to put the green fence up properly and get some climbing plant ie honeysuckle there.The second green fence to the right there im going to remove it as there are some weeds overgrowing inside it and probably plant another flowering shrub. Am considering putting a pond in front of the Crocosmia(they are not an agressive species) and a small sundial in front of it and some furniture in between it and the tree.

kylith

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Do you really believe a cup of vinegar diluted in 5L of water is going to alter the pH of the soil for the longer term? Similarly using salt sparingly will have no consequential effects. Rain will eventually wash away any lingering traces as it does to fertilisers etc etc.

Overusing any substance could give rise to potential short term problems, but using home made weedkillers would not be a cause for any concern.

On such a large area, yes, I would be concerned. Maybe I'd be wrong to be, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

magicbastarder

i think it was in 'weeds' by richard mabey that seaside plants in the UK are making their way quite a bit inland on roadside verges, due to the salting that takes place every winter.

Anatom

I agree with all of the advice above, but it depends on what you're able to do.

I wouldn't bother with spraying it off and reseeding all over again. The easiest thing would be to either strim it all down yourself and then just keep mowing and mowing and mowing it every week. You'll be amazed at how well it will turn out.

You mentioned in your post that you'd already had the excavator in, so it should already be reasonably level but if it isn't, then hiring a roller for a day soon after we've had some decent rain will help level it off further.

Its going to take a lot of work, but good luck with it!!

LimerickCity

Get stuck into it.

Hard work pays off.

This was my back yard last year.

I got great advice on here.

Before and after.