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Irish citizen being questioned by immigration

  • 06-06-2013 2:31am
    #1
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭


    This post has been deleted.


Comments

  • #2
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056963817

    Basically, can immigration here question an Irish passport holder as to employment status before granting entry?

    I would assume that once a person establishes they are a citizen by virtue of having an Irish passport they cannot be detained or questioned by immigration?

    They can ask questions if they suspect the passport is fake ie to establish whether someone actually is a citizen or not. I've been asked a few questions before, when my passport has been in a somewhat worn state.


  • #3
    username304
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭username304


    Of course they can. A passport is a document. Documents can be forged. Therefore, questions as the authenticity of the documents(or lack thereof) to establish identity can be asked by the authorities.


  • #4
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • #5
    Miaireland
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,065 ✭✭✭Miaireland


    As others said Passports can be forged. The topic of the questions isn't important they ask them to see how the person reacts, whether they make eye contact etc.


  • #6
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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  • #7
    Valetta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭Valetta


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    What law does it break?

    They can ask you whatever they like. Whether you answer or not is up to you.

    If being awkward is your thing and you have plenty of time on your hands, then I'm sure they will be more than happy to facilitate your maladroitness.


  • #8
    galwayjohn89
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭galwayjohn89


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    I'd be very surprised and disappointed if it is against the law. I'd like to think the law would have a bit more cop on. As has been said before, the response isn't really relevant, just seeing how the person reacts. I've been asked questions coming back into Dublin before basic stuff where I was coming from, where I lived, and did I go to college here. Probably because I was 20 and my passport photo was when I was 11.

    People need to stop getting worked up over such stupid things and going against the 'man' to try and prove a point.


  • #9
    househero
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭househero


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056963817


    I would assume that once a person establishes they are a citizen by virtue of having an Irish passport they cannot be detained or questioned by immigration?

    Are you a terrorist in training? Hahahaha yes they can ask you AND detain you, just because you have an Irish passport it does not mean you are excluded from reasonable questioning to determined if you are a threat to the state.


  • #10
    source
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,288 ✭✭✭source


    Do any of the 'outraged' people on here remember a big controversy a number of years ago, when an Israeli hit team travelled using forged Irish passports?

    It does happen, the immigration Garda was just doing his job FFS!

    He is perfectly entitled to ask questions of any person entering the state if he feels reason to be suspicious.

    I can guarantee the people on here acting like this is the end of the world, would be calling for the Garda's head if he didn't do this and it resulted in a terrorist incident. Get over it and move on.


  • #11
    Aced_Up
    Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭Aced_Up


    As a European Citizen, you have a right to move freely across EU borders.

    They can question the validity of anyone's citizenship however, maybe asking if they work here was just a question to confirm some details. But stopping someone from moving freely because of job status is silly.


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  • #12
    Mellor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,615 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Aced_Up wrote: »
    ...stopping someone from moving freely because of job status is silly.

    Em, nobody was prevent from moving freely due to job status or any other reason.


  • #13
    Aced_Up
    Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭Aced_Up


    Mellor wrote: »
    Em, nobody was prevent from moving freely due to job status or any other reason.
    Mellor wrote: »
    Em, nobody was prevent from moving freely due to job status or any other reason.

    Being 'stopped' and asked employment status.... Would be stopping me from moving freely (briefly)

    Asking about my citizenship directly would be a fair reason to stop me temporarily.


  • #14
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    They have equipment to detect forgeries.

    Even the best equipment cannot detect that a real passport is being used by someone other than the citizen to whom it was issued.
    Asking an Irish citizen if they have a job as a condition of entry is unlawful.

    Refusing them permission to land is illegal, but asking them questions is fine as far as I know.


  • #15
    Cushie Butterfield
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭Cushie Butterfield


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    Even the best equipment cannot detect that a real passport is being used by someone other than the citizen to whom it was issued.
    I thought that the new e-gates used facial recognition to match the face of the passenger with the passport photo?


  • #16
    Del2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,040 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Aced_Up wrote: »
    Being 'stopped' and asked employment status.... Would be stopping me from moving freely (briefly)

    Asking about my citizenship directly would be a fair reason to stop me temporarily.

    Your being stopped to show your passport to be allowed access to our country. They need to verify that you are who you claim by maybe asking a few questions. The questions they ask can be anything they fancy. They don't care whether your working, you can easily answer that's none of your business, they just want to see how you react to the question and the weirder the question the less prep time you have. I'm sure someone using a fake Irish passport would have practised a few common answers, so throwing a curve ball question makes them have to think on their feet.

    Cushie Butterfield wrote: »
    I thought that the new e-gates used facial recognition to match the face of the passenger with the passport photo?

    It's still possible to fake a passport. So even if the face matches the photo it doesn't mean they belong to the Passport.


  • #17
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    OP are you sure you were not stopped by revenue/ customs?

    Did this happen at passport control, or did it happen right before you left airside and entered the arrivals hall?
    There is a big clampdown on social welfare fraud at the airport over the past year, or more.

    edit: just saw the link to where you said it was passport control. If your passport is not damaged or shows no sign of tampering, would consider making a complaint.


  • #18
    Cushie Butterfield
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭Cushie Butterfield


    Del2005 wrote: »
    It's still possible to fake a passport. So even if the face matches the photo it doesn't mean they belong to the Passport.
    Yes, but my question was to the poster who said that if an authentic passport was used by someone other than the passport holder that there was no way this could be detected.


  • #19
    Del2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,040 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    edit: just saw the link to where you said it was passport control. If your passport is not damaged or shows no sign of tampering, would consider making a complaint.

    A good forgery shouldn't show any signs of tampering.


  • #20
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Del2005 wrote: »
    A good forgery shouldn't show any signs of tampering.
    That's a point that applies to every passport.

    So, either the staff are pulling in one in every 25 (or whatever it may be) passports at random, or they have some sort of valid reason for questioning: tampered passport, strange behaviour, remarks on database and so on.

    It shouldn't be too hard for the passenger to submit a query by contacting, I presume, the INIS.


  • #21
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,727 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    I remember once, coming of a flight from Heathrow, I was at the back of the plane and last off, and there were 5/6 ahead of me in the queue for Passport control, one was an Irish Citizen, the rest a mixture of American and New Zealanders, all of whom would be required to present a passport.

    The only person stopped was the Irish citizen, she was black, all the others were white.


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  • #22
    Finnbar01
    Registered Users Posts: 2,071 ✭✭✭Finnbar01


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    Refusing them permission to land is illegal, but asking them questions is fine as far as I know.


    Out of interest, what would happen if someone refused to answer their questions?


  • #23
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • #24
    Marcusm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,450 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Unless they formed a reasonable belief or had reasonable grounds for suspecting that the passport was a forgery or being used by someone other than the person to whom it was issued, I believe you have to be right. There is no general power of detention!


  • #25
    Ethan.Saaris
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 101 ✭✭Ethan.Saaris


    So, do you need to have a job status in order to stay for an extended period of time? Or can you be a freelancer and live there forever?


  • #26
    househero
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭househero


    Ethan.Saaris wrote: »
    So, do you need to have a job status in order to stay for an extended period of time? Or can you be a freelancer and live there forever?


    I'm not 100% sure Ethan, but I think you can only stay for a limited amount of time without a provable source of income. Particularly if your not a European.


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