Extermination through sterilisation - the solution to "skangerism"

bedrock#1

Seachmall wrote: »

Scumbags are defined by their anti-social behaviour, so you're not generalising all scumbags when you say they're pricks, By definition they are pricks.

But it's still incitement to hatred. Doesn't matter what your opinion is, although you are entitled to hold it. What exactly is "anti-social behaviour"?? Something that annoys you? Hurts your sensibilities? From the amount I've read on the subject it is primarily a definition of behaviour aimed at those from lower socio-economic classes. To try to rationalise it as pertaining to your non-specific 'scumbags' and 'pricks' won't really do for a coherent argument, because it's not coherent and it's not an argument.

Links234

awec wrote: »

Of course there is. And it's not just Dublin.

People will stick their heads in the sand and pretend there isn't so they can get a pat on the back for their "forward thinking" PC mindset.

Or else they'll try and tell us that these people are victims of society.

please don't mistake my lack of bloodlust for being oblivious to problems society faces such as feral youth, and much of the "scumbag" behavior of repeat criminal offenders... I've been a target for exactly these types, probably more than many here. I just think there could possibly be a more measured response that doesn't involve extermination and eugenics.

mattjack

danniemcq wrote: »

Spent some time in Limerick and its the only place i've been given fake money, the rest of it i see in news

Dublin? been (well attempted to be) mugged there, got started a few times for no reason etc plus in the OP both incidents were in....? plus its full of dubliners who think nothing exists outside the pale.

Hence only walling off Limerick but nuking Dublin

There's a lesson to be learned here , in this post.... how 'bout we sterilise people who were nearly mugged.

up for anything

Nature abhors a vacuum. If you get rid of those you deem undesirable another set of 'undesirables' will spring up to replace them. I'm sure the present Turkish government regards those people demonstrating as undesirable and would love to be able to wipe them out but if they did that then they would create an even bigger problem for themselves as people not involved now would surely get involved.

OP, who do you think should sit in judgement on who or who not should be deleted?

mariaalice

There has alway been" feral" children and various responses, its is only relatively recently that anyone bothered about this, it arose in Victorian times when book like people of the abyss, were written.

Anyone seen the purge.

--Kaiser--

Don't be stupid, be a smarty, come and join the Nazi party!

frank reynolds

lots of them have kids simply for the state allowances. take these allowances away and you will see a sharp drop in the amount of kids they have. guaranteed.

Ush1

up for anything wrote: »

Nature abhors a vacuum. If you get rid of those you deem undesirable another set of 'undesirables' will spring up to replace them. I'm sure the present Turkish government regards those people demonstrating as undesirable and would love to be able to wipe them out but if they did that then they would create an even bigger problem for themselves as people not involved now would surely get involved.

OP, who do you think should sit in judgement on who or who not should be deleted?

Well generally in nature it's the ones who have the ability to do the exterminating who decide who to exterminate.

mike65

up for anything wrote: »

OP, who do you think should sit in judgement on who or who not should be deleted?

I'm not proposing the deletion of anyone merely the lack of creation, read the last sentence of the OP again.

endacl

mike65 wrote: »

I'm not proposing the deletion of anyone merely the lack of creation, read the last sentence of the OP again.

You were serious?!?

:eek:

Davidth88

Ohh dear eugenics ..... not a great idea.

Tried in Sweden until the 70's I believe

Cart that pretty 10 YO girl off and chop her tubes , she is too pretty and will breed too much ..... the Germans in the 30's were big into this too , indeed the Swedes had the same advisors I believe.


Not the ( final ) solution I am afraid

mike65

endacl wrote: »

You were serious?!?

:eek:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMRUHGnN29s

Chucken

Did someone hack Mike65s account?

Seachmall

bedrock#1 wrote: »

But it's still incitement to hatred.

Seriously? This thread boils down to "I don't want people who do anti-social things in society."

It's not inciting hatred against any defined or recognised group.

What exactly is "anti-social behaviour"?? Something that annoys you? Hurts your sensibilities?

Anti-social behaviour occurs where a person causes or, in the circumstances is likely to cause, to one or more persons who are not of the same household as the person:

• Harassment or
• Significant or persistent alarm, distress, fear or intimidation or
• Significant or persistent impairment of their use or enjoyment of their property.

- Citizens Information

From the amount I've read on the subject it is primarily a definition of behaviour aimed at those from lower socio-economic classes.

Anti-social behaviour is more prevalent among the lower classes but that does not mean we should not target it lest it be interpreted as an attack on the lower classes.

To try to rationalise it as pertaining to your non-specific 'scumbags' and 'pricks' won't really do for a coherent argument, because it's not coherent and it's not an argument.

And the argument that "scumbags" (as the term is well understood by more-or-less everyone) are some sort of protected group and that attacking them is somehow comparable to that of attacking blacks or gays is absurd.

Tiddlypeeps

frank reynolds wrote: »

lots of them have kids simply for the state allowances. take these allowances away and you will see a sharp drop in the amount of kids they have. guaranteed.

Stating guaranteed does not make what you are stating a fact.

Can you back up what you are saying?

I find it hard to believe because all around the world there are nations with no state benefits where large families are very common among the very poor.

Poor people having large families has been a trend all over the world, all throughout the ages, regardless of if state support is a factor or not. So I find your premis difficult to believe.

AlekSmart

Links234 wrote: »

You know, if you really wanted to direct your ire somewhere, why not the Judges who throw people back onto the streets despite having dozens of convictions, if not more, or give constant suspended sentences for violent rapists.

Ah yes,the judiciary,at the root of all evil ?

It is however worth remembering that those Judges who "throw people back on the streets" more often do it with a sense of exasperation and regret.

In most cases,even recent hi-profile one's,sentencing Judges are bound by Superior Court Judgements from the High and Supreme Courts which supposedly reflect the intentions of our beloved 1932 Constitution.

This document,which forms the bedrock of our Legal Processes has been fannied about with to an incredible degree by star chambers full of the craziest people we could find to represent US.

The result,hardly surprisingly,is a Legal System which is heavily skewed towards the wellbeing of the Lawbreaker,and the constant whittling away of the rights of those who simply want to live their own lives in peace and quiet,something which appears threatening to the "Skanger" element in question.

But it's NOT the fault of ordinary decent Judges...

It is the fault of a population who ask few,if any questions of their Elected Representatives.

A trip to yer average Politicians "Clinic" will more likely than not reveal a significant number of "Skangery types" askin about gettin a Medical Card,Bus Pass or access to the other assorted benefits being funded by those who tend to be their prey.

The decision to make working for ones advancement optional in Irish Society lies at the root of the Skanger issue.

The Skangers day is fully taken up with having the Buzz and finding enough mischief to perform to stave off the boredom like...

I see it up close and personal every working day.
I get the attitude forced upon me whether I want it or not.
I am fully expected to bow to every little connivance and stroke as long as it keeps them quiet.

Talk to your average Gard or Ambulance Staffer,and enquire about their full interaction with this body of citizens.

I dunno what solution there is,or can be,Final or not,but fair play to Mike65 for his thinking aloud on the topic....

Miss Lockhart

Seachmall wrote: »

Scumbags are defined by their anti-social behaviour, so you're not generalising all scumbags when you say they're pricks, By definition they are pricks.

Seachmall wrote: »

Seriously? This thread boils down to "I don't want people who do anti-social things in society."

It's not inciting hatred against any defined or recognised group, only against criminals.
Anti-social behaviour occurs where a person causes or, in the circumstances is likely to cause, to one or more persons who are not of the same household as the person:

• Harassment or
• Significant or persistent alarm, distress, fear or intimidation or
• Significant or persistent impairment of their use or enjoyment of their property.

- Citizens Information

Anti-social behaviour is more prevalent among the lower classes but that does not mean we should not target it lest it be interpreted as an attack on the lower classes.The idea that "scumbags" (as the term is well understood by more-or-less everyone) are some sort of protected group and that attacking them is somehow comparable to that of attacking blacks or gays is absurd.

The thread is about skangers. Not scumbags.

danniemcq

mattjack wrote: »

There's a lesson to be learned here , in this post.... how 'bout we sterilise people who were nearly mugged.

so i should have let him mug me and not broke his nose?

Seachmall

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

The thread is about skangers. Not scumbags.

Are they not synonymous?

Miss Lockhart

Seachmall wrote: »

Are they not synonymous?

Not in my world, no.

KingOfFairview

I am also a cossetted middle-class fool who lives in one if the safest countries in the world in the most peaceful period in the history of humanity but am very, very scared of what Joe Duffy and the evening herald tell me to drive up revenue so I think this is a great idea.

Wattle

endacl wrote: »

Unfortunately though, there are some who find their social status, accent, fashion sense etc, offensive. And who can't seem to see beyond these.

Whenever I'm exposed to a real skanger accent it feels like somebody is attacking my ears with a machete. I'd recommend a mass program of elecution lessons.

Richard Hillman

Obviously we cannot get away with sterilisation but a real movement is needed to destroy skangerism.

I personally think the media needs to play a role in highlighting what skangerism is. 99% of skangers do not realise that they are skangers, nor realise what skanger behaviour is. I also think the government needs to recognize that skangerism is a real thing. I would personally support an awareness campaign.

St.Spodo

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Obviously we cannot get away with sterilisation but a real movement is needed to destroy skangerism.

I personally think the media needs to play a role in highlighting what skangerism is. 99% of skangers do not realise that they are skangers, nor realise what skanger behaviour is. I also think the government needs to recognize that skangerism is a real thing. I would personally support an awareness campaign.

LOL, 'be wary of people in tracksuits'.

bedrock#1

Seachmall wrote: »

Seriously? This thread boils down to "I don't want people who do anti-social things in society."

It's not inciting hatred against any defined or recognised group, only against criminals.
Anti-social behaviour occurs where a person causes or, in the circumstances is likely to cause, to one or more persons who are not of the same household as the person:

• Harassment or
• Significant or persistent alarm, distress, fear or intimidation or
• Significant or persistent impairment of their use or enjoyment of their property.

- Citizens Information

Anti-social behaviour is more prevalent among the lower classes but that does not mean we should not target it lest it be interpreted as an attack on the lower classes.The idea that "scumbags" (as the term is well understood by more-or-less everyone) are some sort of protected group and that attacking them is somehow comparable to that of attacking blacks or gays is absurd.

Presently 'anti-social behaviour' makes a mockery of our due-process system of criminal justice. so I would reserve judgement about it's inherent criminality. It's a product of constant fear mongering by politicians and the media which has left us with a situation whereby people like yourself are willing to remove the right to procreate because of behaviour you find offensive. I bet if I was to spend a day with you I would find you had some behaviours I wouldn't agree with. Could I then reasonably suggest you be sterilised? or does this not prove that it is too wishy washy?

Also, ask yourself why is it more prevalent among the lower-classes? Is it by a natural process where they are more anti-social or is it by design? Ie. is it more prevalent because the lower-classes receive more attention?

Your definition of 'scumbag' - not very scientific is it? It's 'well understood by almost everyone'. Firstly the fact that myself and many other people posting in this thread disagree with you on its definition means you are wrong.
Secondly, if we were to use your term 'scumbag' we wouldn't be able to stop the sterilisation for the q of people that might fit the bill according to the next man.

danniemcq

St.Spodo wrote: »

LOL, 'be wary of people in tracksuits'.

especially those that are running,

what are they running from?

SEPT 23 1989

I was talking to my father about the scumbag problem in Dublin yesterday and he told me that when he was young what happened in inner city Dublin was that if there was a row or scumbags were causing trouble,a guard would arrive at the scene,get off his bike,pick out the biggest troublemaker and floor him with a punch

instantly the trouble stopped and that was the end of it

AlekSmart

Seachmall wrote: »

Are they not synonymous?

NO,there's a subtle difference in Dress Code....;)

Kintarō Hattori

Let's admit that we have a problem with a segment of our society. We have a significant number of people who:

Generally speaking don't contribute anything of value
Who have never worked and who have no interest in working
A portion are continually in trouble with the law sporting long rap sheets
Who breed as much as possible to claim various benefits, lack of contraception education etc
Habitual drug users

Everyone has a choice and if you really wanted to you can take the decision to lift yourself out of the situation you find yourself in and work for something better. I know some people find themselves in a spiral of negativity and that while these people may not necessarily be bad people they still had choices to make.

As I said at the beginning we have a problem, let's not be politically correct and harrang folk for admitting that we have a problem part of society. Let's start looking for answers. How do we as the people solve this problem? I know it's complex, I know we won't find the answer on an internet forum but there is no harm in discussing it. How do we resolve this issue that we have?
I know I'm posting this in the wrong forum but I'm not enlightened enough to have this as a serious discussion elsewhere.

Clearly our judicial system doesn't work. Sentences need to be tougher and carried out to term. Prisons need to be humane but tougher. There would also I guess need to be more police with wider- not all encompassing, powers.

Benefits. We have a fantastic social welfare system but it is abused. It clearly needs to be reformed as there are people caught in it who currently will never leave it.

Education. I know it sounds obvious but perhaps we need to put a focus that you need to educate yourself to lift you above your circumstance. That the right thing to do by society is to contribute rather than to take from it. That you're part of something more than just 'you'.

Community. I think this is something we have lost big time in Ireland. People don't for the most part, in urban areas at least, feel like they are part of a community anymore. I think it would be fantastic if people go together more, organised things such as clean ups of their area, had organisations they could be a part of. We're too focused on getting up, going to work, coming home and staying in our own little bubble.

The undesirable element of our society currently wield too much influence over the rest of us. I've travelled a bit in mainland Europe and nowhere else have I been where this segment of society is as tolerated. I've been to Poland 18 times since 2005 and I've never seen 'these people' as we do in Ireland. I've also been to the UK, Czech, France and a few other places. The tolerance for having these people in our bustling city centres causing a disturbance is both sad and amazing.

We have a real problem- what are the real, just, humane and proper ways to deal with it?

AlekSmart

St.Spodo wrote: »

LOL, 'be wary of people in tracksuits'.

Oddly enough,quite a useful adage,but I'd suggest adding "Ill Fitting" to it...

Reamer Fanny

Is that you Adolf??

Richard Hillman

The issue is real. These people are outbreeding normal folk. Unless we tackle the issue now, we will all be spending our well earned retirement money on trying to afford a house in a gated community.

This issue is not going to go away or decline.

Seachmall

bedrock#1 wrote: »

Presently 'anti-social behaviour' makes a mockery of our due-process system of criminal justice. so I would reserve judgement about it's inherent criminality.

I wouldn't.

I fully support the criminalisation of harassment, intimidation and vandalism.

It's a product of constant fear mongering by politicians and the media which has left us with a situation whereby people like yourself are willing to remove the right to procreate because of behaviour you find offensive.

You say that as if my argument is based on removing behaviours I find offenesive...

I bet if I was to spend a day with you I would find you had some behaviours I wouldn't agree with. Could I then reasonably suggest you be sterilised?

You say that as if I agree with sterilisation...

or does this not prove that it is too wishy washy?

Your argument appears too wishy washy.

Also, ask yourself why is it more prevalent among the lower-classes? Is it by a natural process where they are more anti-social or is it by design? Ie. is it more prevalent because the lower-classes receive more attention?

It's more prevelant due to a serious of complex socio-economic factors.

Are you suggesting the public's opinion on the matter are being skewed by some anti-lower class power? The Ministry of Truth perhaps?

Your definition of 'scumbag' - not very scientific is it? It's 'well understood by almost everyone'. Firstly the fact that myself and many other people posting in this thread disagree with you on its definition means you are wrong.

I haven't seen anyone who disagrees that a scumbag is someone who engages in anti-social behaviour.

Secondly, if we were to use your term 'scumbag' we wouldn't be able to stop the sterilisation for the q of people that might fit the bill according to the next man.

As is the failure of the democratic system.

If you feel anti-social behaviour should not be legislated for perhaps you should take that issue up with your local representative.

Meritocracy Wins

Seriously, have some of ye got sunstroke?

FTA69

I've also been to the UK, Czech, France and a few other places. The tolerance for having these people in our bustling city centres causing a disturbance is both sad and amazing.

The UK and France have a huge amount of unemployed people from formerly industrialised areas who are now cast adrift from the workforce and as such, society in general. The notion that people in the UK don't bang on about "chavs" etc is ridiculous. The problems with French ghettoes are well known.

To be honest the working class in places like the UK were completely shattered under Thatcher and large swathes of the country were left with no decent employment. This led to a rise in alienation and poverty which then brought problems of anti-social behaviour such as alcohol, drugs, social and domestic tensions etc. The council housing was sold off to the point that the remaining estates often became dumping grounds for the most vulnerable or at-risk segments of society. Which explains, to be blunt, why there are so many crackpots knocking around these areas.

My opinion may be unpopular, but we'd be better off acknowledging the fact that large groups of people have fallen through the cracks due to certain societal developments as opposed to it being a black-and-white case of working-class people being feckless rogues. A lack of jobs and social exclusion will lead to these problems, and that's what needs to be addressed.

Although it's far more fashionable to churn out hyperbolic nonsense about "pumping out kids for benefits" and call for sterilisation than acknowledge the facts.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

mike65 wrote: »

Since the sun put its hat on Dublin has seen riots on a beach in Portmarnock, a gang of feral youths in near Dalkey smash up some poor chaps car while he was in it, that same gang terrorise passengers on a bus and last night a train was invaded by louts on the journey between Pearse Street Station and Maynooth. Blood was spilt before the Guards arrived.

Rather than wring our hands at the horror of it all, is it time to just acknowledge
that there is a strata of society that will never be reformed regardless of best intentions and state spending and that sterilisation of the Skanger class is the best way forward. It won't catch all the bad genes but certainly a large % will be wiped out without killing anyone.

This part is bollocks...

Cina

Well we could start by bombing Oxegen this year, that's around 80,000 of them out of the way in a flash.

AlekSmart

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

.

As I said at the beginning we have a problem, let's not be politically correct and harrang folk for admitting that we have a problem part of society. Let's start looking for answers. How do we as the people solve this problem? I know it's complex, I know we won't find the answer on an internet forum but there is no harm in discussing it. How do we resolve this issue that we have?
I know I'm posting this in the wrong forum but I'm not enlightened enough to have this as a serious discussion elsewhere.

Education. I know it sounds obvious but perhaps we need to put a focus that you need to educate yourself to lift you above your circumstance. That the right thing to do by society is to contribute rather than to take from it. That you're part of something more than just 'you'.

We have a real problem, what are the real, just, humane and proper ways to deal with it?

Excellent post Hintaro...should be a sticky.

I believe the root of much of this stuff lies in the unfit-for-purpose nature of Irish Education,particularly at Second Level.

A great many of our Schools appear to be little more than finishing academies for Skangerism,where the potential is first recognised,then nutrured by the elder skangers whose role appears to be the sourcing of new blood to keep their coven's active and healthy.

Try taking a stab (!) at being "different" in any large educational establishment in Skangerland....

Perhaps rather than allowing these people to gather and self-support en masse,a policy of de-centralization and dispersal might be more appropriate,with a set quota of Skangers per sq Km or somesuch....

However,it's all moot really until we have agreement that there is a problem,something not universally accepted even around here....:(

Tzar Chasm

here's an idea, do we have any chemists or biologists on boards that could develop it

We sterilise everyone, maybe put something in the water, or make people get mandatory jabs every year, no jab no dole/job/car insurance/..... link it to something people value and you should get full cooperation.

then if you want to have kids you apply for a licence, if you can show that the child will be raised in a nourishing environment with its economic and emotional needs catered for you get the antidote

danniemcq

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The issue is real. These people are outbreeding normal folk. Unless we tackle the issue now, we will all be spending our well earned retirement money on trying to afford a house in a gated community.

This issue is not going to go away or decline.

idiocracy ftw!

Kintarō Hattori

FTA69 wrote: »

The UK and France have a huge amount of unemployed people from formerly industrialised areas who are now cast adrift from the workforce and as such, society in general. The notion that people in the UK don't bang on about "chavs" etc is ridiculous. The problems with French ghettoes are well known.

In the last part of my post I was specifically highlighting the problem that we have in Dublin city centre. Of course other countries have ghettoes and this is something we need to tackle.

FTA69 wrote: »

To be honest the working class in places like the UK were completely shattered under Thatcher and large swathes of the country were left with no decent employment. This led to a rise in alienation and poverty which then brought problems of anti-social behaviour such as alcohol, drugs, social and domestic tensions etc. The council housing was sold off to the point that the remaining estates often became dumping grounds for the most vulnerable or at-risk segments of society. Which explains, to be blunt, why there are so many crackpots knocking around these areas.

My opinion may be unpopular, but we'd be better off acknowledging the fact that large groups of people have fallen through the cracks due to certain societal developments as opposed to it being a black-and-white case of working-class people being feckless rogues. A lack of jobs and social exclusion will lead to these problems, and that's what needs to be addressed.

Although it's far more fashionable to churn out hyperbolic nonsense about "pumping out kids for benefits" and call for sterilisation than acknowledge the facts.

Yes a lot of the problems that we have are a fault all of our own making but there is also an element now that certain lifestyles are a matter of choice. Regardless of black, white, right, wrong etc we do have a problem.... what are the answers.

AlekSmart

Brett Fast Neurology wrote: »

This part is bollocks...

Oddly enough IamXavier,I'm seeing it as a valid question.

Emme

No need for drastic measures such as sterilization. If skangers don't contribute to the upkeep of their children banish them to somewhere desolate in the midlands and make them pick stones, fork silage or shovel slurry all day. With no money for Dutch Gold and the threat of forced labour in the sticks skangers will embrace a life of celibacy. Skangers become extinct. Mission accomplished.

mathie

I'd love to qualify what a scumbag / skanger is.

I saw an absolute scumbag lowlife in just shorts on the boardwalk in Dublin with the obligatory Dutch Gold in hand shouting down his phone at someone. A car drives past and another scumbag shouts out "Ya bleedin' scumbag!"

The scumbag on the phone says (obviously answering "Who was that?") .... "Ah it was just some scumbag!"

V_Moth

mike65 wrote: »

They would need to fulfil 3 of the following criteria

Failed to sit Leaving Cert exams
No history of having worked
No history of either parent having worked, assuming fit to work
Having been the subject of more than one call out by the Guards to their home
Having been banned from a public bar
Made more than one phone call or 2 texts to FM 104s Adrian Kennedy

Thats Bill Cull screwed then

Meritocracy Wins

Some of the biggest scumbags in the area I live come from middle class and well off families. Little scrotes that think they are protected by Daddy's standing in the community. Do we lump these in with the rest?

Seachmall

Meritocracy Wins wrote: »

Some of the biggest scumbags in the area I live come from middle class and well off families. Little scrotes that think they are protected by Daddy's standing in the community. Do we lump these in with the rest?

Abso-fucking-lutely.

Enough of them where I live too.

gerarda

We could recruit Sgt. Tim Weston?

bedrock#1

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Let's admit that we have a problem with a segment of our society. We have a significant number of people who:

Generally speaking don't contribute anything of value
Who have never worked and who have no interest in working
A portion are continually in trouble with the law sporting long rap sheets
Who breed as much as possible to claim various benefits, lack of contraception education etc
Habitual drug users

One of the main problems with discussing 'sections of society' is that it generally fails to take account of the criminals that dwell within other 'section s of society'. Our criminal justice system is wholly focused on people from the lower segments of society even though the crimes of the powerful are far more devastating and go nearly totally unpunished.

Everyone has a choice and if you really wanted to you can take the decision to lift yourself out of the situation you find yourself in and work for something better. I know some people find themselves in a spiral of negativity and that while these people may not necessarily be bad people they still had choices to make.

Most sophisticated theories about human behaviour have come to the conclusion that simple rational choice is too reductionist. It sounds pretty nice and succinct but fails to factor in the mixture of biological, social, cultural environmental and psychological factors that make up a human being.

Clearly our judicial system doesn't work. Sentences need to be tougher and carried out to term. Prisons need to be humane but tougher. There would also I guess need to be more police with wider- not all encompassing, powers.

Doesn't work I'm afraid. Longer sentences haven't been shown empirically to make any difference to the crime rate. Prisons don't rehabilitate and if we are to talk about retribution we have to ask ourselves a number of questions regarding the legitimacy of an increasingly unequal society, where the crimes of the poor are punished and the crimes of the rich white washed and how this society can legitimately inflict punishment taking these facts into consideration.

Benefits. We have a fantastic social welfare system but it is abused. It clearly needs to be reformed as there are people caught in it who currently will never leave it.

Again reductionist arguments won't get us anywhere. There are constantly people on this forum talking about the huge numbers on social welfare yet conveniently ignore the fact that when the 'boom' times were here we had about 3% unemployment - ergo, if there are jobs people will work.

Education. I know it sounds obvious but perhaps we need to put a focus that you need to educate yourself to lift you above your circumstance. That the right thing to do by society is to contribute rather than to take from it. That you're part of something more than just 'you'.

The fact that the vast majority of our prison population have never taken state exams points to needing them to at least have the tools to lift themselves out of their situation (whether or not their situation is of their own making or a consequence of our society).

Community. I think this is something we have lost big time in Ireland. People don't for the most part, in urban areas at least, feel like they are part of a community anymore. I think it would be fantastic if people go together more, organised things such as clean ups of their area, had organisations they could be a part of. We're too focused on getting up, going to work, coming home and staying in our own little bubble.

Good idea. Something I agree with.

We have a real problem- what are the real, just, humane and proper ways to deal with it?

Sure there are but they require a more humane and equal society, which unfortunately is not something we are even coming close to considering either this thread or the fact that the concerns of business and finance come before the citizens of this and most other countries.

Insect Overlord

Having a nice little chuckle to myself here at the complete over-reaction to the OP.

Sure Myers and his ilk make a decent living from polemic journalism like this.

It's grand if it's in the papers, but apparently not in After Hours. Awesome!