Unfurnished Apartments

LowKeyReturn

Any call for these or long term leases. Thinking a one bed in D8. Nice Kitchen with appliances and high standard bathroom but letting the tenant furnish it themselves with a view to a lower rent and a longer term arrangement.

Loads of these in Scotland when I was renting but not seen that many here.

ABajaninCork

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

Any call for these or long term leases. Thinking a one bed in D8. Nice Kitchen with appliances and high standard bathroom but letting the tenant furnish it themselves with a view to a lower rent and a longer term arrangement.

Loads of these in Scotland when I was renting but not seen that many here.

If you were in Cork, I'd have the hand off ye! So hard to get unfurnished properties here for some reason. I'd far rather use my stuff than the landlord's which in the main is bought for cheapness rather than quality.

Much easier to maintain too. You don't have the cost of replacing furnishings and appliances. Why more landlords don't do unfurnished lets is beyond me...

miezekatze

I would prefer an unfurnished apartment and longer term arrangement as well. The place where I rent at the moment has nice furniture, but I've seen plenty of furniture in furnished apartments that looked like the owner took it from their granny's house. I used to live in a 2 bed where half the spare bedroom was used to store the landlord's ugly old crap that we didn't want to use.

missmyler

Agree with above. I'm not a renter but if I was I would much prefer to bring my own furniture with me. There seems to be more people looking for these kind of rentals lately but I think landlords are reluctant to leave unfurnished as there is still an uncertainty if the property will rent or not.

ABajaninCork

I think the landlords don't want to rent unfurnished as they'll get more rent if it's furnished however poorly.

Trent Houseboat

I think there's more of a market for it now that renting isn't seen as being solely for students and younger professionals.

I've been looking for places for the past couple of months with a view to moving soon and I don't recall seeing an unfurnished one. It's a shame because I could probably scrounge some basic mismatched stuff until I can get my own good quality furniture.

djimi

ABajaninCork wrote: »

I think the landlords don't want to rent unfurnished as they'll get more rent if it's furnished however poorly.

I think its just a culture thing. Unfurnished properties were not very common in Ireland, so not many tenants had their own furniture to bring. The demand just wasnt there, and from a landlords point of view you were excluding the majority of the rental market by not furnishing the property. The trend seems to be changing somewhat, but I suspect that it will be quite a time before we see unfurnished become anything like the norm.

Mrs OBumble

The law now requires landlords to provide:

•A fixed heating appliance in each room, which is capable of providing effective heating and which the tenant can control
• Adequate facilities for the hygienic storage, preparation and cooking of food for example, a 4-ring hob with oven and grill, fridge-freezer and microwave oven
• Access to a washing machine and dryer


Thus institutionalising the idea that tenants don't own their own whiteware. Except of course for social housing tenants, where landlords simply have to provide facilities for connecting these.

Madness, IMHO.

Pawwed Rig

Thanks Mrs O I was actually wondering this. Are unfurnished apartments legal anymore? The landlord must provide what is listed in Bumbles post. So the only thing that he doesn't have to provide seems to be a bed and a suite of furniture.
Strange situation where you can advertise as unfurnished with all mod cons:D

ABajaninCork

Is it actually illegal to let unfurnished though? All the law says is that the LL has to provide cooking facilities and access to a washer and dryer. In practice, all that means is that the property must be plumbed for it, but not that that items physically have to be there. It says nothing about furniture though, AFAIK. Heating, I can understand as the property isn't fit for human habitation without it.

I've read on here of tenants wanting LL's to provide crockery and cutlery FFS! WHY???? They're cheap enough to buy in Dunnes/Tesco and you know who's been using them!

ABajaninCork

Actually, I've just thought of something else...

If there's electrical items in the property; e.g F/F, washing machine and microwave, does the LL have to provide electrical certs for them?

djimi

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Is it actually illegal to let unfurnished though? All the law says is that the LL has to provide cooking facilities and access to a washer and dryer. In practice, all that means is that the property must be plumbed for it, but not that that items physically have to be there. It says nothing about furniture though, AFAIK. Heating, I can understand as the property isn't fit for human habitation without it.

I've read on here of tenants wanting LL's to provide crockery and cutlery FFS! WHY???? They're cheap enough to buy in Dunnes/Tesco and you know who's been using them!

Not enough just to have plumbing; a washer and dryer (where necessary) must be supplied:

(2) Subject to sub-article (1), there shall be provided, within the habitable
area of the house, for the exclusive use of the house:

(g) Washing machine, or access to a communal washing machine facility
within the curtilage of the building, and
(h) Where the house does not contain a garden or yard for the exclusive
use of that house, a dryer (vented or recirculation type).

http://www.environ.ie/en/Legislation/DevelopmentandHousing/Housing/FileDownLoad,19142,en.pdf

missmyler

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Strange situation where you can advertise as unfurnished with all mod cons:D

Not strange at all. I've lived in Australia for a long time and this is the norm. The majority of properties come with white goods but no furniture. So basically you bring your bed and sofa with you but not an oven etc.

Over there it is very unusual to get a furnished places and if you can you pay through the nose for them. Pain in the a*se for backpackers but for locals they dont have to put up with the awful furniture that some landlords over here provide.

Pawwed Rig

That is what I would have preferred tbh but it is too much hassle here to have your own furniture when you have to think about storing the landlords stuff for the term of the lease.

murphaph

You should be able to let a property whatever way you want so long as it is structurally sound and free from mould and damp etc. This is the way it is in Germany. The typical let includes just sanitary ware in the bathroom. The rest is left to the tenant to provide (including kitchen and light fittings). However, a LL may opt to rent with a kitchen or even fully furnished. It's left to the landlord/tenant to decide...not dictated by the state like in Ireland. A German landlord would choke on his cornflakes if he was forced to provide a microwave oven and most German tenants would find it funny that they wouldn't use their own.

Pawwed Rig

Also the hygiene aspects should be considered. One thing I do have is my own bed. Some of the mattresses I have seen in rental accommodation would turn your stomach (never mind the spinal damage).

The govt does seem to be way too involved in property here

djimi

Im not renting long enough to know what it was like before the RTA2004 came into effect, but I suspect that there may be a reason why the government felt the need to lay down such regulations, ie prevention of substandard hovels being rented for example?

Again I think it comes down to culture; its all well and good to say that in Germany a bare bones property can be rented to tenants, but that takes into account the fact that tenants are used to bringing their own furniture, kitchen fittings etc, and that they are used to signing very long term leases. In Ireland, certainly up until very recently, the culture has not been to rent unfurnished, but to rent fully furnished and ready to live in properties, usually on a relatively short term lease, so the expectation was not there for the tenant to have to provide so much of their own furnishings and fittings. Whether or not that is reason enough to regulate so tightly I dont know, but to me I suspect it is the reason why regulations are different here than in a country like Germany which has a very different rental culture.

valleyoftheunos

I don't think White Goods such as Cookers and Wasine machines count as Furniture, they are more appliances or possibly even fittings?

Of course the difference between here and continental Europe is the length of the leases, 12 months being standard here and 5 and 20 years being the case in europe.

A friend was telling me recently that he had taken a 9 year lease on an apartment in Holland. Not only was it unfurnished it was without Flooring and he had to go source some pretty quickly, apparently this is de rigur over there.:eek:

murphaph

The difference is that in Holland etc. a tenant expects to be bound by the terms of that 9 year lease. They treat it with respect. How many threads have we had on here that start with "How can I break my lease?"

I'd like to move towards a more continental style in Ireland. Long term leases but also much more security for landlords: 3 months rent deposit and fast track procedures to remove non-payers or worse.

valleyoftheunos

murphaph wrote: »

The difference is that in Holland etc. a tenant expects to be bound by the terms of that 9 year lease. They treat it with respect. How many threads have we had on here that start with "How can I break my lease?"

I'd like to move towards a more continental style in Ireland. Long term leases but also much more security for landlords: 3 months rent deposit and fast track procedures to remove non-payers or worse.

Excellent point.

djimi

murphaph wrote: »

The difference is that in Holland etc. a tenant expects to be bound by the terms of that 9 year lease. They treat it with respect. How many threads have we had on here that start with "How can I break my lease?"

I fail to believe nobody in Holland, Germany or any of these other rental utopias that we hear so much about has ever looked to break a fixed term lease. For every one person who comes on here looking to break their lease there are literally thousands who abide by the rules and laws to the letter.

Pawwed Rig

I don't understand how 9 year leases could be the norm. It would make a very immobile workforce. In the last 9 years I would of had to break a lease that long four times.

murphaph

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I don't understand how 9 year leases could be the norm. It would make a very immobile workforce. In the last 9 years I would of had to break a lease that long four times.

I don't understand it either. Here in Germany you rent a place. There's no term involved usually, but there are minimum notice periods which you must abide by.

LowKeyReturn

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I don't understand how 9 year leases could be the norm. It would make a very immobile workforce. In the last 9 years I would of had to break a lease that long four times.

I don't really think that's the norm. What happens if you buy a place?

murphaph

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

I don't really think that's the norm. What happens if you buy a place?

You can sell it again if you really need to move.

LowKeyReturn

murphaph wrote: »

You can sell it again if you really need to move.

Four times in nine years? That's a lot of hassle not withstanding a property crash. The point is most people won;t move so much in 9 years that they need to move house.

murphaph

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

Four times in nine years? That's a lot of hassle not withstanding a property crash. The point is most people won;t move so much in 9 years that they need to move house.

The point is that a 9 year lease has a term of 9 years. You are contractually obliged to pay the rent for those 9 years. If you buy, then if you really need to move for work, you can sell up and rent/buy elsewhere. You're not under contract to stay where you are.

Practically speaking you're right...most people will not move 4 times in 9 years so a lease could be ok, but it might not be and that's a big but I suppose.

DubDani

In Germany the notice for both Parties depends on how long the tenants have been living there.

Years = 3 full months by each party (i.e. serve notice sometime in January to leave on the 30th of April)

Between 3 and 5 years = 6 months notice for each party

Between 5 and 10 years = 9 months notice for each party

More then ten years = 1 year notice to be given.

And there is usually no way around that, especially for Landlords. As long as a tenant is paying his rent it is almost impossible to serve notice, unless the landlord or immediate family want to move in themselves.

And don't try to pretend you plan to move in yourself, and then rent it out again or leave it empty. That will cost you sever thousand in compensation. I know of one case where the tenant was awarded 24K for the Landlord serving notice under false pretence, and not moving in himself.

valleyoftheunos

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I don't understand how 9 year leases could be the norm. It would make a very immobile workforce. In the last 9 years I would of had to break a lease that long four times.

People actually don't move as much, certainly not within a city or area. I imagine in cases where its necessary to move leases can be assigned but I don't really know. I don't know that 9 years is the standard but it seems to be a standard term.