Where's all the Christians on this forum ?

homer911

This forum should be about quality, not quantity.

I'd rather see one sincere question/answer every six months, than the spurious rubbish that can get posted here quite regularly. What we have seen lately is a number of sincere questions that have been rapidly responded to by the trolls and anti-theists. If this forum quietens down, we can hope that they will get bored. Its up to the Christians to keep an eye on the forum and respond constructively when sincere questions are asked.

There are a lot of active users on boards.ie From time to time they will have questions on a Christian topic and its important that Christians are here to answer them. They are not all going to go to Ship of Fools/Got Questions/Catholic Answers..

lmaopml

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Yes, it's terrible the way everyone is allowed have a voice.

Boards has a long standing tradition of taking down petitions/questionaires etc. if they're not from established poster and haven't received permission from the local mod. the place would frankly be unusable and flooded if they didn't. It's nothing to do with religion.

I pm'd the mod and asked about why the petition was locked down so quickly, and he replied to me today.

He said petitions aren't allowed whether they are pro or anti anything - that it's a policy decision of the owners, as they don't want to be perceived as being associated with petitions in general - and that it's actually more usual to site ban a person who puts one up, but that he felt it wouldn't be necessary in this instance as the topic is sensitive, and a short explanation and lock would suffice.

Got back to me fairly quick too.

tommy2bad

It dose sorta paint a target on our back for the anti religious to come and put the boot in on a 'Christians' forum but thats life.
Restricting the Christian forum to Christian topics creates a somewhat introverted set of topics and doesn't help get a discussion going. The gay megathread is busy and has a good exchange of views, probably because it's a real life issue at the moment.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056972293 is never going to engage more than hardcore xians of a particular subset of miracle followers.
I just look in to see if anything new or interesting turns up, if I add to a thread then it's in the Followed thread list. I don't start threads as most of what I'm interested in day to day is covered in other forums both on Boards and elsewhere.

This is not necessarily a bad thing, if your a Christian then it should inform everything you engage in, not just the religious stuff. Come here for the religious stuff and take your Christianity with you to the rest of the stuff.
Sometimes we compartmentalize too much.

martinedwards

I drop in occasionally but don't post a huge amount in here because a huge amount of the threads descend into a "You aren't Catholic/Protestant so you're going to hell" type of thing.

you can get a little tired of that after a while.......

Benny_Cake

homer911 wrote: »

This forum should be about quality, not quantity.

I'd rather see one sincere question/answer every six months, than the spurious rubbish that can get posted here quite regularly. What we have seen lately is a number of sincere questions that have been rapidly responded to by the trolls and anti-theists. If this forum quietens down, we can hope that they will get bored. Its up to the Christians to keep an eye on the forum and respond constructively when sincere questions are asked.

There are a lot of active users on boards.ie From time to time they will have questions on a Christian topic and its important that Christians are here to answer them. They are not all going to go to Ship of Fools/Got Questions/Catholic Answers..

I'd strongly agree with all of this, with one proviso - if everyone would please report trollish posts rather than responding to them, it would make life a lot easier. Although I try to check in on the forum every couple of hours (not always possible though), when a post is reported the mods get an email and can usually get to it a good deal quicker.

martinedwards wrote: »

I drop in occasionally but don't post a huge amount in here because a huge amount of the threads descend into a "You aren't Catholic/Protestant so you're going to hell" type of thing.

you can get a little tired of that after a while.......

I have to say I haven't noticed any of those threads lately. It was very common a couple of years back but once the Protestant v Catholic debate megathread was created, it gradually quietened down. Incidentally there hasn't been any posts on that thread in several months. Please report any sectarian remarks though, I've got little time for that sort of thing so I'll move them to the megathread or issue warnings / infractions as appropriate.

Kiwi in IE

I fail to see why Christians get so upset about being challenged by atheists. When Christians post opinions in A&A that are contrary to my (lack of) beliefs, it dosn't make me feel upset or want to stop posting and leave.

I don't think the moderators on this forum can win. They seem to be damned if they do and damned if they don't (pardon the pun). Who cares if someone challenges or refutes what you believe? If you are secure in your beliefs that shouldn't worry you. Either refute the post or simply ignore it.

Fanny Cradock

I assume that's a question Kiwi in IE.

In my own case, it's not the challenge that bothers me, nor is it the potential that my beliefs may be refuted*. Rather, it becomes frustrating when it becomes apparent that some people have no interest in debate yet have quite a lot of interest in posting. This become especially tedious when it is evident that these posts are also spiked with an unhealthy glug of mean-spiritedness or uncharitable sentiments towards the opposition. You can see why that might become upsetting, right?

For me the solution was simple - post less and don't get into long debates with certain individuals.

Homer911 hit it on the head - better to have one thread where people are genuinely trying to understand each other then 10 threads with people shouting each other down. But perhaps this is the nature of internet interactions, especially when passions are roused. Although I do quite like what Randal Rauser has to say about engaging with others (and the sentiment can be applied to all sides) here. I must pick his book up.




*I included "the potential that my beliefs may be refuted" above but this is only in principle. Any cherished belief that is refuted, be it religious or non-religious in nature, is bound to cause upset. I'm not sure why you are of the opinion, Kiwi in IE, that a refuted belief should be greeted with a shrug of the shoulders.

J C

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Yes, it's terrible the way everyone is allowed have a voice.

Boards has a long standing tradition of taking down petitions/questionaires etc. if they're not from established poster and haven't received permission from the local mod. the place would frankly be unusable and flooded if they didn't. It's nothing to do with religion.

Your statement that 'everyone is allowed a voice' seems to be contradicted by your statement that petitions / questionaires are taken down if they're not from an 'established poster' approved by a Mod.
... or am I missing something?

Doctor DooM

J C wrote: »

Your statement that 'everyone is allowed a voice' seems to be contradicted by your statement that petitions / questionaires are taken down if they're not from an 'established poster' approved by a Mod.
... or am I missing something?

Yes, the next sentence explains why.

No one is stopped from making their point. People are stopped from making boards unusable.

MrPudding

J C wrote: »

Your statement that 'everyone is allowed a voice' seems to be contradicted by your statement that petitions / questionaires are taken down if they're not from an 'established poster' approved by a Mod.
... or am I missing something?

The very fact that your continued posting is tolerated is a fairly good indication of the flexibility shown on boards. There is no right to freedom of speech on boards and should the owners or administrators decide that links to petitions is not something they are happy with, then that is 100% their prerogative.

MrP

lmaopml

I think it's all very fine and very true to say, 'them's the rules, end of..' - but it doesn't fix anything.

The forum has gone through a veritable exodus of regular contributors in the last while, and that's a fact that isn't going anywhere. I think it's cool that Benny cares enough to try to find out why and also to be a mod here - many posters wouldn't dream of taking on that job, I know I wouldn't do it for love or money. I also don't believe that it's any one thing, but is more nuanced than that, it's an overall perception of the boards right or wrong.

Kelly1, Lady Chuckles, Guitar monkey, Festus, Hinault, Alex73, Wolfsbane, Totus Tuss, Soul Winner, Keylem, Anti Skeptic, Hamlet or Hecuba, Bill Lehane, GimmeBroadband, PDN, and Phil etc. ......

...to name just a few I remember.

Personally, I think it's a loss to the place, and also to our regular atheist contributors who are finding themselves with less and less people to engage with at all?

My perception of the AA forum is that there is a 'community' element to it, and many posters are friendly and agree with each other all over the place all the time - but the Christianity forum is suffering and indeed I think hearty debate because for some reason a community spirit is not getting off the ground - I think it's good to examine why that's happening because it is a loss not only to us, but also to boards. It would be cool if that was important to more than just Benny.

Why do people ?

.

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I fail to see why Christians get so upset about being challenged by atheists.

Christians don't. I've never found any honest argument for atheism even challenging, never mind upsetting. I welcome any new arguments for atheism, but I seldom see any, especially on this forum. Constant soap boxing, misrepresentation, misquoting, strawmanning, and trolling of exactly the same rubbish, over and over and over in order to drown out and side track and distract from any mention of Christian discussion however does get wearisome and pointless.

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

When Christians post opinions in A&A that are contrary to my (lack of) beliefs, it dosn't make me feel upset or want to stop posting and leave.

Precisely because Soap boxing, trolling, strawmanning, misrepresentation is not tolerated to anywhere near the same extent on that forum.

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I don't think the moderators on this forum can win.

That entirely depends on if they want to or not. The charter, which no seems to bother to read, is quite clear on the above points, whether they choose to enforce equally or it or not is up to the mods :

1. The purpose of this forum is to discuss Christian belief in general, and specific elements of it, between Christians and non-Christians alike. This forum has the additional purpose of being a point on Boards.ie where Christians may ask other Christians questions about their shared faith. In this regard, Christians should not have to defend their faith from overt or subtle attack.

2. For the purposes of this board 'Christian' means broad assent to historic Christian belief such as is contained in the Apostles' Creed. Individual posters with other beliefs, however, are welcome.

3. Bigotry, crude generalisations and unreasonable antagonism will not be tolerated. This rule encompasses all intolerance towards creeds, beliefs, lifestyles or opinions that differ from one's own.

4. Please be honest about your faith where it makes a clear difference to your answer. This isn't "Personal Issues"... if a person comes here with a problem, it is probably because they think a Christian answer will be more relevant to them. This is not to discourage non-Christians replying, it is simply a matter of courtesy.

5. Arguments such as "There is no God, therefore..." or "The Bible is full of contradictions, therefore..." will not be tolerated. Don't start off with a conclusion which your audience is bound to disagree with!

6. Do not post anything intended to inflame or insult. The goal of this forum is to be a place where ideas relating to Christianity are expounded, debated and challenged. While discussion is encouraged, each member is expected to remain within the boundaries of taste and decency. If you disagree with a opinion expressed, please do so in a well mannered fashion.

7. While posting controversial questions to stimulate debate is acceptable, soap boxing, i.e. constant repetition of a single viewpoint while refusing to entertain discussion on it, is both disruptive and annoying, and will not be tolerated. You are expected to contribute something other than placard proclamations.

8. If you are quoting from other sources, please provide a link or mention the source. Plagiarism will not be tolerated.

9. The terms of this Charter apply not just to the bodies of posts but also to the text and images contained in signature lines. Where deemed appropriate the forum moderators will edit offending signature lines out of posts in the Christianity forum.

10. No swearing or facsimile thereof (includes textspeak such as "wtf"). Such words will be edited and warnings issued. Banning will occur if it continues.

11. Do not discuss moderation decisions in a thread. If you have an issue with the actions of a mod, please contact them via PM. If the dispute has not been resolved after this correspondence, the correct procedure is to then PM the C-mods. If the issue remains unresolved, a thread should be started on the Dispute Resolution Forum.

12. Posts should only be reported if they contravene the forum charter in any way. While the mods will be aware of all posts reported, you may not receive an acknowledgement.

If the mods want to save this forum they can, if they don't, who cares, it's their loss.

homer911

Why do people ? wrote: »

If the mods want to save this forum they can, if they don't, who cares, it's their loss.

This forum doesn't need saving.. we are Christians after all!

Seriously though, boards.ie would be a lesser place without this forum. Its the first forum I ever posted to on this domain.

In the fairly recent past its been impossible to breath after a sincere question was asked before the trolls descended on it - lack a pack of circling vultures, because you will never find one on its own. Well Christians are neither vultures, nor are they dead bones for picking over

Why do people ?

MrPudding wrote: »

The very fact that your continued posting is tolerated is a fairly good indication of the flexibility shown on boards.

How tolerant and flexible of you indeed.

MrPudding wrote: »

There is no right to freedom of speech on boards and should the owners or administrators decide that links to petitions is not something they are happy with, then that is 100% their prerogative.

MrP

Agree 100%, just don't try and pretend on the other hand impartiality and freedom of speech exists on this forum.

Fanny Cradock

Why do people ? wrote: »

.Christians don't. I've never found any honest argument for atheism even challenging, never mind upsetting. I welcome any new arguments for atheism, but I seldom see any, especially on this forum.

Well you should because there are some good arguments against theism and Christians should address them. For example, the problem of evil must be one of the strongest against the notion of a good God. While I happen to think that the counter arguments are made of better stuff (indeed, the problem of evil is a problem for both sides), I wouldn't dismiss the other side too quickly. To do so would be akin to those atheists who repeat that "there is no evidence for God". Rupert Wolpert would be a good example of the latter.

MrPudding

Why do people ? wrote: »

How tolerant and flexible of you indeed.

You have no idea.

Why do people ? wrote: »

Agree 100%, just don't try and pretend on the other hand impartiality and freedom of speech exists on this forum.

When did I, or anyone else, say anything different?

MrP

J C

MrPudding wrote: »

The very fact that your continued posting is tolerated is a fairly good indication of the flexibility shown on boards. There is no right to freedom of speech on boards and should the owners or administrators decide that links to petitions is not something they are happy with, then that is 100% their prerogative.

MrP

I don't see any issue with my posting or those of my fellow Christians, on this Forum that requires any tolerance.
My posting obeys all of the rules on Boards ... I post courteously, honestly and on topic.

I am sometimes called a troll ... when I express orthodox Christian views that are 100% in line with the Bible and the Creeds ... on a Christianity Forum that is supposed to be discussing the Christian Faith.
Of course, all of this is but a side show to avoid addressing the substance of my postings and those of my fellow Christians ... its far easier to throw in a lazy comment about the supposed failings of a Christian poster or to 'nit pick' over some minor point of detail, than it is to address the substance of what they are saying.
None of this is unique to me, although it is often most acute in relation to me.
This forum isn't a place where Christians can come to learn about their faith and discuss their Theological differences in a respectful manner ... its a crucible where the ideas of Christianity are tested by Atheists 'to infinity and beyond'.
Unless this forum becomes more hospitable to Christians, I think its inevitably going to remain a place that many Christians will avoid.
... and with attitudes, like those expressed by Mr P, about Christian posts being merely 'tolerated', as the powers that be see fit, I wouldn't criticise Christians for avoiding this Forum and doing something more useful for the Lord!!!

wrote:

Originally Posted by Why do people ?
How tolerant and flexible of you indeed.

Mr Pudding
You have no idea.

Please give us some idea of how/where all this 'tolerance' is being exercised towards Christian posters on the Christianity Forum.
... and BTW ... its not 'tolerance' to allow Christians to express orthodox Christian opinions on a Forum calling itself a Christianity Forum - it's a logical requirement of any Forum describing itself as a Christianity Forum.

J C

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Yes, the next sentence explains why.

No one is stopped from making their point. People are stopped from making boards unusable.

How does publicising petitions/questionaires etc. make the boards 'unusable'?

Its just a separate thread that everyone is free to ignore or read, as they see fit.

... You have also said that "petitions / questionaires are taken down if they're not from an 'established poster' approved by a Mod" ... what is that all about ... and what does the term 'established poster' actually mean?

J C

lmaopml wrote: »

My perception of the AA forum is that there is a 'community' element to it, and many posters are friendly and agree with each other all over the place all the time - but the Christianity forum is suffering and indeed I think hearty debate because for some reason a community spirit is not getting off the ground.

I think your point is well made ...
I think your observations are a fact rather then merely a perception ... and I have noted this too.
The Atheists do indeed behave like a community on both the A & A and over here on the Christianity Forum. They come to each other's aid when an Atheist gets a question that they are struggling with and they continuously and profusely thank each other.
The Christians, on the other hand, largely don't support or build on each others posts and they almost never help each other to answer questions and they rarely thank each other.
When it comes to the Bible and Christian Doctrine, with few exceptions, the Atheists display a far greater knowledge of these subjects (and a greater interest in discussing them) than most of the Christians posting on the Boards.
I don't know why this is occurring ... but it is saying something very negative about the levels of common purpose amongst Christians on the Boards and something very positive about the levels of motivation and common purpose amongst the Atheists.
Christianity is supposed to be a faith of love and friendship with a strong sense of community and a common purpose to Save Humanity ... while Atheism is supposed to be made up of individuals who have no faith in God for all kinds of personal and individual reasons.
One would expect Christians to be community orientated and Atheists to be socially 'atomised', with little common agreement on anything beyond their lack of faith in a God ... but the reverse seems to be the case on the Boards.
Perhaps this is a reflection of a demoralised/de-motivated/fractured 'Christianity' and a highly motivated and unified Secular Movement out there in the 'real world' as well.
Perhaps the 'rot' within Christianity is even greater than many people think?
Perhaps the historical anagonisms between different Christian denominations are still there, barely under the surface.
Perhaps Christians are 'sweating the small stuff' ... and ignoring the big stuff, like ensuring the transmission of the Faith and the Savation of persons.
Whatever the reason, it's not good news for the people who are supposed to be spreading of the Good News of Salvation.

J C

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Well you should because there are some good arguments against theism and Christians should address them. For example, the problem of evil must be one of the strongest against the notion of a good God. While I happen to think that the counter arguments are made of better stuff (indeed, the problem of evil is a problem for both sides), I wouldn't dismiss the other side too quickly. To do so would be akin to those atheists who repeat that "there is no evidence for God". Rupert Wolpert would be a good example of the latter.

I think that 'Why do People' was speaking from a personal point of view that he has never been personally challenged or upset by any argument proffered for Atheism.
You are also correct to point out that there are many arguments out there that are put forward for Atheism - and as Christians, we need to provide the counter arguments.
For example, evil is a logical consequence of the extension of free-will to Humanity and the angels by a good God, who desires that we love Him freely, which is the only way that true love can actually be expressed.
Evil is therefore the 'down side' of free-will ... and our ability to love and do good towards other people is the 'up side' of us being granted free-will.

Corkfeen

J C wrote: »

How does publicising petitions/questionaires etc. make the boards 'unusable'?

Its just a separate thread that everyone is free to ignore or read, as they see fit.

... You have also said that "petitions / questionaires are taken down if they're not from an 'established poster' approved by a Mod" ... what is that all about ... and what does the term 'established poster' actually mean?

I can't recall any major petition on the forum being allowed by boards besides one against the copyright bill which Boards basically had as their only political move. Other than that questionnaires are allowed occasionally particularly in Uni forums for research purposes with permission of mods etc.

It won't be kindly looked upon if a poster registers with the sole rational of promoting a petition or questionnaire. If this was allowed, forums would have a wasteful amount of promotional spam going on.

J C

Corkfeen wrote: »

I can't recall any major petition on the forum being allowed by boards besides one against the copyright bill which Boards basically had as their only political move. Other than that questionnaires are allowed occasionally particularly in Uni forums for research purposes with permission of mods etc.

It won't be kindly looked upon if a poster registers with the sole rational of promoting a petition or questionnaire. If this was allowed, forums would have a wasteful amount of promotional spam going on.

I don't think that promoting petitions will be as disruptive as you claim.

However, if it is banned equally for all types of petitions, then fair enough.

twg73

J C wrote: »

I don't see any issue with my posting or those of my fellow Christians, on this Forum that requires any tolerance.
My posting obeys all of the rules on Boards ... I post courteously, honestly and on topic.

I am sometimes called a troll ... when I express orthodox Christian views that are 100% in line with the Bible and the Creeds ... on a Christianity Forum that is supposed to be discussing the Christian Faith.
Of course, all of this is but a side show to avoid addressing the substance of my postings and those of my fellow Christians ... its far easier to throw in a lazy comment about the supposed failings of a Christian poster or to 'nit pick' over some minor point of detail, than it is to address the substance of what they are saying.
None of this is unique to me, although it is often most acute in relation to me.
This forum isn't a place where Christians can come to learn about their faith and discuss their Theological differences in a respectful manner ... its a crucible where the ideas of Christianity are tested by Atheists 'to infinity and beyond'.
Unless this forum becomes more hospitable to Christians, I think its inevitably going to remain a place that many Christians will avoid.
... and with attitudes, like those expressed by Mr P, about Christian posts being merely 'tolerated', as the powers that be see fit, I wouldn't criticise Christians for avoiding this Forum and doing something more useful for the Lord!!!

Wow.. Well said. I find this forum very sterile as regards and indepth Christian discussion. If you start discussion a Christian point I see certain posters jumping in who have zero respect or understanding for Christianity.

But then again,,,I am half thinking its a total waste of time to post in an anoymous forum. Just signed up last week. Can't see any benefit at all to the forum unless it were dedicated to actual christian discussion.

tommy2bad

Well this is boards not a specifically Christian forum. The quality of discussion could be better but again that would require some input. I'm willing to counter when someone expresses an opinion that I disagree with (sometimes I even disagree with stuff I agree with just to be contrary ).

This thread is a good example of Christians helping each other; http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056975151
It dose happen even in this neck of the woods.

J C

twg73 wrote: »

Wow.. Well said. I find this forum very sterile as regards and indepth Christian discussion. If you start discussion a Christian point I see certain posters jumping in who have zero respect or understanding for Christianity.

But then again,,,I am half thinking its a total waste of time to post in an anoymous forum. Just signed up last week. Can't see any benefit at all to the forum unless it were dedicated to actual christian discussion.

The points you make, as a new poster, are indeed thought-provoking.
However, I wouldn't lay all of the blame for the lack of discussion from a Christian point of view, at the door of the Atheists.
Christians also have a responsibility to contribute to the discussion in a positive manner - and to support and develop the ideas put forward by their fellow Christians, if they want the Christianity Forum to work, as you have described.

Geomy

J C wrote: »

I think your point is well made ...
I think your observations are a fact rather then merely a perception ... and I have noted this too.
The Atheists do indeed behave like a community on both the A & A and over here on the Christianity Forum. They come to each other's aid when an Atheist gets a question that they are struggling with and they continuously and profusely thank each other.
The Christians, on the other hand, largely don't support or build on each others posts and they almost never help each other to answer questions and they rarely thank each other.
When it comes to the Bible and Christian Doctrine, with few exceptions, the Atheists display a far greater knowledge of these subjects (and a greater interest in discussing them) than most of the Christians posting on the Boards.
I don't know why this is occurring ... but it is saying something very negative about the levels of common purpose amongst Christians on the Boards and something very positive about the levels of motivation and common purpose amongst the Atheists.
Christianity is supposed to be a faith of love and friendship with a strong sense of community and a common purpose to Save Humanity ... while Atheism is supposed to be made up of individuals who have no faith in God for all kinds of personal and individual reasons.
One would expect Christians to be community orientated and Atheists to be socially 'atomised', with little common agreement on anything beyond their lack of faith in a God ... but the reverse seems to be the case on the Boards.
Perhaps this is a reflection of a demoralised/de-motivated/fractured 'Christianity' and a highly motivated and unified Secular Movement out there in the 'real world' as well.
Perhaps the 'rot' within Christianity is even greater than many people think?
Perhaps the historical anagonisms between different Christian denominations are still there, barely under the surface.
Perhaps Christians are 'sweating the small stuff' ... and ignoring the big stuff, like ensuring the transmission of the Faith and the Savation of persons.
Whatever the reason, it's not good news for the people who are supposed to be spreading of the Good News of Salvation.

Well said, I don't see much of a community here either, the Christians seem to be divided and the atheists seem to be United.

Doctor DooM

J C wrote: »

How does publicising petitions/questionaires etc. make the boards 'unusable'?

Its just a separate thread that everyone is free to ignore or read, as they see fit.

... You have also said that "petitions / questionaires are taken down if they're not from an 'established poster' approved by a Mod" ... what is that all about ... and what does the term 'established poster' actually mean?

See JC, this why people have a problem with your posting style.

As I clearly already said, if everyone were allowed to do it, the entirety of boards would become swamped with them. There's a huge volume of them, they're dealt with every day.

This is boards wide, it's in the site wide rules, this has nothing to do with the Christianity forum, that is as plain as day for anyone who could be bothered to go and check. To think otherwise when you are aware this is a sitewide rule is the purest of persecution complexes.

Doctor DooM

Geomy wrote: »

Well said, I don't see much of a community here either, the Christians seem to be divided and the atheists seem to be United.

The irony being the atheists are the ones who literally have nothing to unite them.

nagirrac

Doctor DooM wrote: »

The irony being the atheists are the ones who literally have nothing to unite them.

Of course they have. Atheists unite around poking holes in any theist based belief system, as they have no belief system of their own to be challenged in response. Its a bit like a Liverpool fan trying to argue with a Man Utd fan since the launch of the premiership, the Liverpool fan is effectively the equivalent of a dartboard.

I think the problem with the forum, while I admire those who keep it active, is that orthodox Christianity, in particular Catholicism, is getting harder to defend against moral attack and this just wears people down over time. The whole purpose of religion is supposed to involve inspiring people to do good, and I honestly believe for most participants it has a positive impact. The problem is with the institutions themselves, which for many decades were tolerated, but increasingly seen nowadays as being out of touch and somewhat questionable on morals themselves.

Benny_Cake

With regard to the petition thread which was closed: the thread was opened by a poster who had very little posting history on Boards and had never posted on this forum before. No mod was contacted prior to him posting the petition. In fairness, the OP was probably unaware of site policy in relation to this but closing the thread was entirely consistent with Boards policy and had I spotted it at the time, I would have done the same as Zaph.

Regarding the lack of community on the forum, that requires regular posters who are willing to tolerate the fact that Christians hold different opinions on various matters. Comparing this forum to A&A is a bit pointless, that forum has a core of posters who are very frequent and committed in their posting. Also, in relation to the topic of the forum, what exactly are they going to disagree over?!

I want to thank everyone who cares enough to make a contribution, even if you have issues with me. My hope is that we can work together to make this forum a place where Christians can help each other (such as in the thread Tommy mentioned) and where anyone with a genuine interest will feel welcomed. I think that would be the best way to counteract the animosity that many on Boards seem to feel towards Christians.

twg73

Geomy wrote: »

Well said, I don't see much of a community here either, the Christians seem to be divided and the atheists seem to be United.

Ah.... But who is to say who is who here. Community is a strong word for this place. Anymous forum of the internet where anyone can post is not the same as a Christian community.

If you want to see how Christians live in a community why not visit a real one.

Boards.ie is not one. it never can be.

Lolababas

Benny_Cake wrote: »

Mod note: This thread is for feedback and suggestions on how the forum can be improved only. Don't feed the trolls.

What's a troll ? Please excuse my lack of knowledge.

Benny_Cake

Lolababas wrote: »

What's a troll ? Please excuse my lack of knowledge.

Here you go:

One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=troll

Corkfeen

They also occasionally live under bridges....

Doctor DooM

nagirrac wrote: »

Of course they have. Atheists unite around poking holes in any theist based belief system, as they have no belief system of their own to be challenged in response. Its a bit like a Liverpool fan trying to argue with a Man Utd fan since the launch of the premiership, the Liverpool fan is effectively the equivalent of a dartboard.

As much as you'd like to think otherwise, the vast majority of atheists couldn't care less, and just want to be left alone. For every one I know on boards I know 5 offline.

Atheists, of course, do have belief systems, it's just that they don't look to religions to form them. If you want examples of atheists picking each others apart just as virulently you need look no further than the atheism + rubbish. Of course, some atheists disagree that you should do that. In fact, some atheists believe in ghosts and magic. All atheists agree on is that there is no veracity in a current god claim.

I apologise for the derailing, but the above is unfair to atheists. As to the problem of atheists picking apart belief systems, this is an online forum where, within reason, everyone is granted a right to reply.

Intrinsic, at this point, to several christian faiths are positions that WILL be challenged, and most people would say rightly so, by those who are affected by those claims.

If I was to be harsh, I would say that if you're not able to defend a position, you should examine why you hold it, and not blame the challenger.

Not being so harsh, I would say this is an built in problem to a sub forum like this, and Benny and co should be congratulated for their best attempts to moderate it using megathreads etc.

Zombrex

nagirrac wrote: »

Atheists unite around poking holes in any theist based belief system, as they have no belief system of their own to be challenged in response.

You make that sound like a bad thing

homer911

Doctor DooM wrote: »

As much as you'd like to think otherwise, the vast majority of atheists couldn't care less, and just want to be left alone. For every one I know on boards I know 5 offline.

Thats the point - The anonymity of a forum like this gives anti-theists who otherwise wouldnt care, the opportunity to troll the Christian forum, constantly, with the same old rubbish that has been defended time and again. They just dont mind repeating themselves.

Doctor DooM wrote: »

I apologise for the derailing, but the above is unfair to atheists. As to the problem of atheists picking apart belief systems, this is an online forum where, within reason, everyone is granted a right to reply.

But they dont - they just deride, because its easy to do and takes little effort. Providing a biblically based response takes more effort and frankly we have better things to do - pearls before swine and all that (and in case you didnt know, thats a biblical metaphor, I'm not calling all atheists pigs)

Doctor DooM wrote: »

If I was to be harsh, I would say that if you're not able to defend a position, you should examine why you hold it, and not blame the challenger.

As I said, the anti-theists on this forum do not challenge (frankly opening a packet of crisps is more challenging!), they just lob in the same old smoke grenades every time. Christians on this forum have, in the main, given up responding to these comments, because the anti-theists are not interested in listening. Its a bit like two people trying to have a conversation and a third person comes along with a ghetto blaster turned up really loud, because they dont want to hear the conversation. It wouldnt occur to them to go back where they came from..

And why do the anti-theists do this? - well its pretty obvious to a Christian...

nagirrac

Doctor DooM wrote: »

As much as you'd like to think otherwise, the vast majority of atheists couldn't care less, and just want to be left alone. For every one I know on boards I know 5 offline.

I would agree that atheists in real life are quite different to atheists on boards. Most atheists I know have no interest in religion and why would they. If you go on the A&A forum, almost all the topics are related to bashing religion and some of that spills over onto this forum. It is obviously an online thing where people are free to post what they might not say in their "real lives", but also likely an Irish thing as a lot of the anti theism stems from their negative experiences and perception of the Catholic church.

The main point I was making is that Church institutions, especially the Catholic church, are an easy target for atheists. That is not an attack on atheists, it gets to the heart of the matter regarding why interest in religion is declining and in my opinion also the primary reason why there are fewer Christians to be found on this Christianity forum. Christianity is in major decline in the west, and again in my opinion unless it undergoes a significant remake it will fade away.

nagirrac

Zombrex wrote: »

You make that sound like a bad thing

Overall I believe its a good thing as beliefs, especially dogmatic beliefs, should be challenged, but they should be challenged fairly. A lot of the atheist attacks on religious beliefs are unfair in my opinion as they are superficial and fail to explore the reasons why people believe in anything spiritual. Attacking Christians today about the views towards slavery and human rights in the Middle East 3,000 years ago is a bit juvenile and unfortunately most of the "religious" discussions end up in this arena. What is worth discussing is why people hold spiritual beliefs, and whether they genuinely have value, both to the individual and to society in general.

Atheists are as prone to dogma and confirmation bias as anyone. The question of God and Science is the obvious one. Science says nothing about God and cannot truly say anything about the supernatural as by definition it cannot be observed or empirically measured. Honest scientists, who are by far the majority, agree with this. Dishonest scientists and their followers erect a strawman religion and use science to attack it's beliefs. The practice of science and belief in the supernatural have nothing to do with each other, they are by definition mutually exclusive.

tommy2bad

Doctor DooM wrote: »

If you want examples of atheists picking each others apart just as virulently you need look no further than the atheism + rubbish.

If I was to be harsh, I would say that if you're not able to defend a position, you should examine why you hold it, and not blame the challenger.

Christians do this too, see the megathreads on homosexuality, creationsm, and the protestant/catholic thread.
I'm fine with atheists who ask or question, what I don't like is people who pontificate and refuse to engage in a discussion.
Yeah I know ironic that a Catholic would dislike pontification but then I'm a bad catholic.

Benny_Cake

It's probably fair to say that the majority of atheist posters on Boards never post here, in fact a majority of them probably never post on A&A either. Now and again, I spot someone in threads on other parts of Boards that describes themselves as being a Christian, but who hasn't posted here. A lot of people simply have other reasons for using Boards, or their belief / lack of such is a personal thing to them that they don't really want to discuss with a bunch of strangers. It's easy to forget that if you spend a good bit of time in the Religion & Spirituality category.

The majority of atheist posters who post on this forum cause little or no trouble. There is a small minority who do, and who usually end up getting banned because they are unable to tolerate the fact that some people may think or believe different things to them. When they send me messages decrying the censorship here, and the fact that they are unable to condemn the "lies" of Christianity, I remind them of the many atheist posters who have contributed here while respecting the charter and other posters. That's usually the end of it.

I'd also differentiate between certain threads covering controversial topics which affect not just Christians but the wider society, and threads covering issues which are more "in house". For example, homosexuality and abortion are topics on which a number of churches have taken a highly public stance and sought to lobby government over. It would seem unjust to restrict debate on those threads. However, if a Christian poster asks a question regarding a particular Bible version, or having their child baptised, it seems only reasonable to live and let live, and I will be coming down a little harder on attempts to turn such threads into Christian/atheist debates.

J C

wrote:

Originally Posted by J C
How does publicising petitions/questionaires etc. make the boards 'unusable'?

Its just a separate thread that everyone is free to ignore or read, as they see fit.

... You have also said that "petitions / questionaires are taken down if they're not from an 'established poster' approved by a Mod" ... what is that all about ... and what does the term 'established poster' actually mean?

Doctor DooM
See JC, this why people have a problem with your posting style.

As I clearly already said, if everyone were allowed to do it, the entirety of boards would become swamped with them. There's a huge volume of them, they're dealt with every day.

This is boards wide, it's in the site wide rules, this has nothing to do with the Christianity forum, that is as plain as day for anyone who could be bothered to go and check. To think otherwise when you are aware this is a sitewide rule is the purest of persecution complexes.

I expressed a reasoned and reasonable point of view. I also accepted and thanked Corkfeen's courteous answer to my questions here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=85179500&postcount=72

But, now that you have re-opened the issue, I would like to point out that the entirety of the boards is 'swamped' every day by thousands of people posting on all kinds of topics, many of which interest few people but themselves.

A few more people drawing attention to petitions or whatever takes their fancy, doesn't seem like something to cause the 'Apocalypse of the Boards' ... like you seem to believe would happen.

I have no persecution complex ... but for Biblical Christians and Jews the price of freedom is eternal vigilence - and history proves this to be a reasonable stance for both peoples.

Delirium

Boards is a discussion forum. People spamming threads or creating threads just to harvest signatures for their petition isn't conducive to a discussion. The poster is generally only interested in promoting the petition.

J C

Benny_Cake wrote: »

It's probably fair to say that the majority of atheist posters on Boards never post here, in fact a majority of them probably never post on A&A either. Now and again, I spot someone in threads on other parts of Boards that describes themselves as being a Christian, but who hasn't posted here. A lot of people simply have other reasons for using Boards, or their belief / lack of such is a personal thing to them that they don't really want to discuss with a bunch of strangers. It's easy to forget that if you spend a good bit of time in the Religion & Spirituality category.

The majority of atheist posters who post on this forum cause little or no trouble. There is a small minority who do, and who usually end up getting banned because they are unable to tolerate the fact that some people may think or believe different things to them. When they send me messages decrying the censorship here, and the fact that they are unable to condemn the "lies" of Christianity, I remind them of the many atheist posters who have contributed here while respecting the charter and other posters. That's usually the end of it.

I'd also differentiate between certain threads covering controversial topics which affect not just Christians but the wider society, and threads covering issues which are more "in house". For example, homosexuality and abortion are topics on which a number of churches have taken a highly public stance and sought to lobby government over. It would seem unjust to restrict debate on those threads. However, if a Christian poster asks a question regarding a particular Bible version, or having their child baptised, it seems only reasonable to live and let live, and I will be coming down a little harder on attempts to turn such threads into Christian/atheist debates.

Points well made.
I too think that many Atheist postings are quite thought-provoking and knowledgeable and Christianity needs to be able to defend its ideas if it's to promote them ... and it shouldn't be over sensitive about valid criticism and opposing opinion.

The answer to the question as to why there are so few Christian Posters ... and why there are so many highly-motivated Atheists on the Christianity Forum continues to elude us.

endacl

lmaopml wrote: »

My perception of the AA forum is that there is a 'community' element to it, and many posters are friendly and agree with each other all over the place all the time

I can assure you that this is most certainly not the case. If you haven't already, a quick browse of the recent 'biscuits' thread may help to clarify things for you! A schizm is imminent. Some people actually think of Jaffa Cakes as biscuits. For my part Jaffa Cakes are as close to evidence for the existence of satan (and of course, by extension, god...) as I've ever seen.

Community?!?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=84495005

J C

koth wrote: »

Boards is a discussion forum. People spamming threads or creating threads just to harvest signatures for their petition isn't conducive to a discussion. The poster is generally only interested in promoting the petition.

Spamming or creating multiple threads on the one topic is certainly unacceptable.
... but I don't see any reason why a petitions forum, for example, wouldn't be possible ... but not necessarily on the Boards.
Many people have excellent ideas about how laws might be improved or how quality of life might be made better with a little thoughtfulness.
Just think, for example, if somebody had suggested better smoking etiquette, long before the smoking ban was introduced, we would have had many of the benefits of the smoking ban, years before it was introduced.

lmaopml

I think the most pertinent thing, that is in relation to the 'petitions' thing - if a poster did actually apply as a native to the forum to the mod and always does so, as was suggested is the normal thing to do to put up a petition that is relevant to the community would it be allowed, if it reflected a common view on the forum?



I think it's not always allowed - and I agree it shouldn't be, I see the logic involved in policy, and agree that sometimes it can get 'noisy' to police I'm sure.

Has this ever happened before on boards however, that a petition went up? That a petition took place with regards to abortion laws?
I think it has, lots, and not here on Christianity - as a person who is a member of boards and a Christian and an Irish citizen may we decide to post a petition which is pretty harmless in a 'Christian' context on the Christianity forum here using a little common sense with respect to it's natives?

The only difference in this case is that the poster was unknown - but the petition is not exactly unknown for either side - it's just that it was shut down so quick that it sent a message - one doesn't have to be an expert to understand - or at least in some ways it sounds like 'shut up'!

Quite probably unintended, but nonetheless, it wasn't the Christianity mod who explained it, it was another mod who is very busy no doubt, but it does look odd - especially when one can use the search facility so very easily and see that it didn't happen on other forums. That's just the truth.

I don't have a persecution complex, but one can't help notice that the policy is perhaps being policed here a lot - or else, it's just a case of the thread was 'reported' by a 'reporter'.....and policy kicked in - which is entirely understandably - people report everything these days.

Perhaps it's time to hit report for trolls or anybody who contravenes policy more frequent - it's not my deal, I hate that kind of stuff, but I think it's part and parcel of the running smoothly of this particular site - only on certain boards mind you, politics, religion, and 'football' of all things..lol...

J C

lmaopml wrote: »

I think the most pertinent thing, that is in relation to the 'petitions' thing - if a poster did actually apply as a native to the forum to the mod and always does so, as was suggested is the normal thing to do to put up a petition that is relevant to the community would it be allowed, if it reflected a common view on the forum?

Petitioning of authority by the people, is the oldest form of direct democracy ... and it predates our current system of representative democracy by thousands of years.
In the Middle Ages a commoner could seek an audience with the King to petition him on some issue or other ... and they didn't need the blessing of any mod ... or his/her Medieval equivalent.
The King listened to the petitions in 'open court' ... and then made his decision. That is how our modern law courts actually arose.

lmaopml

Christians are pro-life, I don't think it would should be a big shock to see a 'pro-life' petition, especially on the Christianity forum, and that it would be some kind of major thing to get ones head around the idea.

I'm sorry, but I don't. I've seen the counter opinion representations over and over represented. I'm not so simple that I can't use the search facility - It was a simple thread, and not something that judging by the general audience on the Christianity forum was ever going to start a landslide - it simply represented it's members, whether posting the petition was applied for or no.

I've no problem with the mod who closed it down however, I think he/she follows policy and is doing the job - but a little thought from members wouldn't go amiss - not to abandon all things boards, but to understand the nature of it.

J C

lmaopml wrote: »

I've no problem with the mod who closed it down however, I think he/she follows policy and is doing the job - but a little thought from members wouldn't go amiss - not to abandon all things boards, but to understand the nature of it.

Quote:-
Wary that open airing of grievances would spark popular dissent, Parliament at times punished particularly severe complaints and prohibited petitions bearing more than 20 signatures. After the Glorious Revolution, however, the 1689 Declaration of Rights recognized that "it is the right of the subjects to petition the king, and all commitments and prosecutions for such petitioning is illegal."

Sounds like the dilemma that the Boards seems to have about petitions is nothing new!!!
http://www.fivefreedoms.org/5freedoms/petition