land beside oldshopping centre in dundalk

Dunny

Tesco do petrol stations aswell don't they?

cargo

Dunny wrote: »

Tesco do petrol stations aswell don't they?

yip and it even looks like other Tesco ones already. Everything is modular.

Waitsian

cargo wrote: »

The newly opened Ramparts River looks well in front of the new structure.

I agree. I just wish the same could be said for the rest of it.

The rubbish that has been allowed to build up along it, in particular at certain points, is a disgrace. I've sent e-mails to various councilors politely asking that something be done, to no avail sadly.

cargo

mod9maple wrote: »

I agree. I just wish the same could be said for the rest of it.

The rubbish that has been allowed to build up along it, in particular at certain points, is a disgrace. I've sent e-mails to various councilors politely asking that something be done, to no avail sadly.

I dont know which bit you are referring to specifically but the other stream in the area which runs down parallel to the Dublin road and turns to run parallel to the Avenue Road behind the terrace houses before disappearing underground up near the traffic lights on the Avenue Road has a mountain of rubbish built up at the screen gates where it goes undergound. It's disgusting to see all the stuff including full bags of rubbish that are dumped in it. Cant think of the name of this stream but I'm sure someone local to it will know it.

Nesta99

It is still the Rampart river that runs from Balmers Bog at Priorland on out to the Windmill and I presume underground to the quay. You are absolutely right though it is disgusting and needs a clean up. Fly tipping is an epidemic problem, and I find it very hard to understand the mindset of people who are responsible! I also think though that charging in to a recycling centre is counter productive when it probably costs more to clean up illegal dumping than it would for a council to subsidise recycling notwithstanding that there is money to be made in recycled waste otherewise there would have been noone to take on the tender of the centre on the Newry Rd. (phew what a sentence).

My experience in the UK is for similar cost to refuse collection in Dundalk bins or crates are given for different types of waste and the Bin Lorry is followed around by another vehicle which the glass, paper, tins etc are put in to. Even little caddies with biodegradable liners for food waste - really handy actually and means there is no big bin in an apartment complex, for example, that is stinking. You can call the local council to say that you have say a tv or fridge for disposal and they will pick it up and off they go probably to a private company to strip and salvage what is useful. Council happy to get rid of the waste easily and somone else is happy as they are making money taking this scrap from the council - seems a win win and dunno why a similar model cant be set up here? as opposed to the multiple tv's and dishwashers etc that appear in a ditch up the Mullaharlin Rd where i live (only to ring the council for them to come out and pick 'em up anyway!)

cargo

Nesta99 wrote: »

It is still the Rampart river that runs from Balmers Bog at Priorland on out to the Windmill and I presume underground to the quay.

I was talking about this "River" one day to someone in the council and they pulled me up on it and gave it a different name. So I assumed the one which comes up at the Tesco and goes along the Ramparts was the Ramparts River and the one which comes down through the wasteland behind Crossans and along behind Regan Terrace / Long Avenue was a different river? I cant remember the name they called this stretch of water.

Are they both the "Ramparts River" even though they go in different directions around this area? Do they spit further back?

Nesta99

Well ye have me there, I always knew it as the Ramparts river and have only seen as that on survey maps nor heard another name used. Would be interesed in finding out though.

cargo

Nesta99 wrote: »

Well ye have me there, I always knew it as the Ramparts river and have only seen as that on survey maps nor heard another name used. Would be interesed in finding out though.

I'll check with my man again. He used to work in that section of the council so I'll get a full run down on it. I've often tried to figure them out when walking the dog up that way but the flow disappears and reappears a few times making it tricky to trace on the ground and google maps have no trace of the one along hte Ramparts road at all.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

There are 2 water courses there. A stream runs behind the shopping centre and down the avenue road and the ramparts is actually a mill race running along the rampart road. The name of the stream passing underground along the avenue rd escapes me at the moment.

Nesta99

Frida Brave Mouthful wrote: »

There are 2 water courses there. A stream runs behind the shopping centre and down the avenue road and the ramparts is actually a mill race running along the rampart road. The name of the stream passing underground along the avenue rd escapes me at the moment.

Never even knew of it! Does it surface anywhere or just run enclosed to the marsh bottom of Avenue Rd?

Off topic - you say a mill race, the ramparts was man made?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Nesta99 wrote: »

Never even knew of it! Does it surface anywhere or just run enclosed to the marsh bottom of Avenue Rd?

Off topic - you say a mill race, the ramparts was man made?

I don't know it to surface anywhere now. The ramparts was constructed in the mid 1600s as a race to a water mill near where the windmill is now.

indiewindy

Frida Brave Mouthful wrote: »

There are 2 water courses there. A stream runs behind the shopping centre and down the avenue road and the ramparts is actually a mill race running along the rampart road. The name of the stream passing underground along the avenue rd escapes me at the moment.

The blackwater?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

indiewindy wrote: »

The blackwater?

I have heard it called that but I don't think it's the official name, as there is a blackwater that originates in Monaghan and flows in to the Castletown river.

Nesta99

I was chuckling a bit at the idea of the Ramparts having a tributary, even better if its called the blackwater considering how it came up

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Nesta99 wrote: »

I was chuckling a bit at the idea of the Ramparts having a tributary, even better if its called the blackwater considering how it came up

But it's not a tributary of the ramparts and is a separate watercourse.

Nesta99

Ok i'm getting the picture. It seems that Dundalk could have many underwater streams and springs. Found while trying to dig up some info myself

It is stated that the part of Dundalk near the junction of
Ann-street and Dublinnstreet is built over a lake, called, in
Irish, "Loc-aen-la," or " The Lake of One Day," i.«., it sprung
up in a day; and that on some future day — ^which, we trust,
will be after the artistic New Zealander's sketch from London-
bridge of the ruins of St. Paul's, this lake will burst forth
and submerge Dnndalki An hotel, called the ^' Lough-aen-lo
Tavam," was kept here, in the seventeenth century, by an
innkeeper named Eeily.

Lady's Wdl, at the southern extremity of Dundalk, on
the Dublin road, was a £unous place of pilgrimage; on the
15th of August, and, the preceding >eve, crowds of people
from Louth, Armagh, Cavan, Meath, and Monaghan, used to
assemble there, to perform a station in honour of our Blessed
Lady.

There is a tradition that Cromwell received a scar, which
marked his face^at Dundalk. The account communicated is
as follows:

from the History of Dundalk............published 1864. ive just skimmed it but a good read.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Loc-aen-la was a manmade lake dug in (supposedly) one day as a cistern for that end of town. It was where Grant's shop/Utopia is now. It was filled in long ago. Underground streams run under Park Street.

Nesta99

'sprung up in a day' takes a totally new context with the additional info.

1100010110

The Blackwater is what drains the marshes to the south of Dundalk.

If you walk up the lane from Crossans to the Long Avenue you will pass over the metal coverings where the mill race (Ramparts) are fed from the Blackwater.
The Blackwater continues in and out of pipes to it's mouth near the Point rd., it's course has been changed over the years to suit it's current purpose as a land drain but is essentially a river, albeit a small one.
The Ramparts/Mill race heads to the mill at Mill St. and outlets under the Quay.
A number of years back when the quay was rebuilt you could actually see the waters of the Ramparts emptying into the harbour at low tide, quite a sight (and sound) as the pipe was at high tide level, not low tide.

ardle1

1100010110 wrote: »

The Blackwater is what drains the marshes to the south of Dundalk.

If you walk up the lane from Crossans to the Long Avenue you will pass over the metal coverings where the mill race (Ramparts) are fed from the Blackwater.
The Blackwater continues in and out of pipes to it's mouth near the Point rd., it's course has been changed over the years to suit it's current purpose as a land drain but is essentially a river, albeit a small one.
The Ramparts/Mill race heads to the mill at Mill St. and outlets under the Quay.
A number of years back when the quay was rebuilt you could actually see the waters of the Ramparts emptying into the harbour at low tide, quite a sight (and sound) as the pipe was at high tide level, not low tide.

Hence the name 'Blackwater Court'! a small estate behind Ave Rd-Alphonsus Rd Junction, accessible through Green Acres. The 'river' runs under Alphonsus Rd between Cluan Enda and Sloanes corner, annnnnnnd if I remember rightly continues on to somewhere between Daly Bro's and the back of Avondale, and onwards to Shore Rd running the whole length off The Shore Rd.

Nesta99

I just assumed that it was drainage down the shore road dug to help water move off the town drains system - never thought that it was a natural water way just enclosed by development!

cargo

Yeah the Blackwater is what I was told it was also. Google maps plots the route of the Blackwater all the way to the sea at Soldiers Point at the end of the Point road.

doncarlos

Frida Brave Mouthful wrote: »

I have heard it called that but I don't think it's the official name, as there is a blackwater that originates in Monaghan and flows in to the Castletown river.

It's officially called the blackwater

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1998/en/si/0359.html

doncarlos

cargo wrote: »

Yeah the Blackwater is what I was told it was also. Google maps plots the route of the Blackwater all the way to the sea at Soldiers Point at the end of the Point road.

I seen that before but the route seems to be wrong from my knowledge of the area. The stream crossed the avenue Road where the entrance for Lidl is now. Turned and would have been parallel to the old rail tracks (where the marshes is now) it crossed the Alphonsus road around the halfway point and ran at the back of Avondale.

In the summertime the stream would dry up altogether.

doncarlos

Nesta99 wrote: »

Ok i'm getting the picture. It seems that Dundalk could have many underwater streams and springs. Found while trying to dig up some info myself

It is stated that the part of Dundalk near the junction of
Ann-street and Dublinnstreet is built over a lake, called, in
Irish, "Loc-aen-la," or " The Lake of One Day," i.«., it sprung
up in a day; and that on some future day — ^which, we trust,
will be after the artistic New Zealander's sketch from London-
bridge of the ruins of St. Paul's, this lake will burst forth
and submerge Dnndalki An hotel, called the ^' Lough-aen-lo
Tavam," was kept here, in the seventeenth century, by an
innkeeper named Eeily.

Lady's Wdl, at the southern extremity of Dundalk, on
the Dublin road, was a £unous place of pilgrimage; on the
15th of August, and, the preceding >eve, crowds of people
from Louth, Armagh, Cavan, Meath, and Monaghan, used to
assemble there, to perform a station in honour of our Blessed
Lady.

There is a tradition that Cromwell received a scar, which
marked his face^at Dundalk. The account communicated is
as follows:

from the History of Dundalk............published 1864. ive just skimmed it but a good read.

That book sounds brilliant. Is it a book from 1864 or a reprint? Would love to get my hands on a copy.

*edit* Found a scan of it online. I assume it is ok to link here as it's well out of copyright

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/aai-files/assets/ebooks/66_History-of-Dundalk/66%20History%20of%20Dundalk.pdf

cargo

doncarlos wrote: »

I seen that before but the route seems to be wrong from my knowledge of the area. The stream crossed the avenue Road where the entrance for Lidl is now. Turned and would have been parallel to the old rail tracks (where the marshes is now) it crossed the Alphonsus road around the halfway point and ran at the back of Avondale.

In the summertime the stream would dry up altogether.

The Blackwater now follows the line behind the houses on Hill Street and turns 90deg right when it gets down to the Avenue Road behind No1 Long Avenue (it doesnt cross over to the Lidl side). It then runs along behind the Long Avenue and Regans Terrace and disappears underground at the end of the red brick terrace houses. The route of it in Google Maps seems to have a corresponding track in the Google Satellite image but I'm not familiar with it from there.

There is some online report of a search in a nearby stream off the little laneway opposite the shops at Greenacres and the Google sat image does show a line of trees/overgrowth along this route.

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/argus/news/stabbed-in-alley-26929578.html

Nesta99

doncarlos wrote: »

That book sounds brilliant. Is it a book from 1864 or a reprint? Would love to get my hands on a copy.

*edit* Found a scan of it online. I assume it is ok to link here as it's well out of copyright

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/aai-files/assets/ebooks/66_History-of-Dundalk/66%20History%20of%20Dundalk.pdf

Thats the book allright! It is a good read, i cut off my post on the story of Cromwell nearly losing his nose in an attack in Dundalk wondering if anyone would pursue the rest of the tale - which goes that a mr Plunkett, a royalist, attacked Cromwell - Cromwell commuted sentence but that any son Mr Plunkett had must be called Oliver...hence we have Oliver Plunkett - nice story eh! Though the writer acknowledges it as a story (well the Oliver bit anyway). I found a transcript on a US library website but the PDF above is better. Give it a thread of its own Don and throw up some good bits lol, i havent the time to start reading it as i'd probably not put it down til finished.

As for the Blackwater-well name is solved but its current course isnt. Not to worry i still learned plenty as a result!

doncarlos

cargo wrote: »

The Blackwater now follows the line behind the houses on Hill Street and turns 90deg right when it gets down to the Avenue Road behind No1 Long Avenue (it doesnt cross over to the Lidl side). It then runs along behind the Long Avenue and Regans Terrace and disappears underground at the end of the red brick terrace houses. The route of it in Google Maps seems to have a corresponding track in the Google Satellite image but I'm not familiar with it from there.

Google maps is wrong. They have the end right but the start is incorrect. There is 100% not a stream that runs parallel to the Avenue road that crosses at Avondale and runs up it along Avondale.

cargo wrote: »

There is some online report of a search in a nearby stream off the little laneway opposite the shops at Greenacres and the Google sat image does show a line of trees/overgrowth along this route.

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/argus/news/stabbed-in-alley-26929578.html

There were a number of those "streams" in those fields but they were nothing more than drainage ditches between fields. I played in all those fields as a kid before any of the houses were built.

cargo

Hi DC,

yeah as I said I only know it as far as the end of the Terrace Houses opposite the ESB. I was only going on what the satellite image shows from there. My "waterman" said it goes underground from there to the outlet but I though when I saw the imagery of the area and that article it might have stayed overground a bit more.

Do you think it's underground from that point to the sea entry point or do you know anywhere else it travels overground?

doncarlos

cargo wrote: »

Hi DC,

yeah as I said I only know it as far as the end of the Terrace Houses opposite the ESB. I was only going on what the satellite image shows from there. My "waterman" said it goes underground from there to the outlet but I though when I saw the imagery of the area and that article it might have stayed overground a bit more.

Do you think it's underground from that point to the sea entry point or do you know anywhere else it travels overground?

I remember as a Kid my dad telling me that the river was called the Blackwater as it was openly visible on the Greenacres side of the Alphonsus road. Then went underground at the Alphonsus road. Before blakley close was built used to run across it and then at the back of Avondale.
It was definitely overground behind Avondale up until recently and I would guess that is the first part that is currently overground on it's journey from the Dublin road/Hill St. It is overground at a number of places after that.

I always assumed that it ran along the train tacks as there was a small stream that that ran parallel to them. It would be where the marshes road is now. It cut through Greenacres and then across the Alphonsus road. I could be wrong on this and this could be a completely different stream or even a drainage ditch.
This is the spot where I thought it crossed the Avenue road.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.996429,-6.404017,3a,75y,278.45h,68.64t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sKQg7cz1cA1DTzeoeUfjKzg!2e0