Teen spared jail despite refusing to apologise

An Claidheamh

This clown has tried to play bad cop before. He's an eejit! Thinks he's smart.

http://www.herald.ie/news/girl-giggles-in-court-over-theft-charge-29194205.html


(Long story short he tried to stop the girl from giggling. Said he was going to send her to a detention centre if she didn't. Suspended the court until she stopped laughing. She didn't stop laughing. He didn't send her anywhere after all.)

An Claidheamh

http://www.google.ie/imgres?q=judge+john+o+connor&sa=X&biw=1024&bih=499&tbm=isch&tbnid=e2eIzTMm6CcpqM:&imgrefurl=http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/court-hears-of-tragic-death-of-troubled-teen-found-dead-in-hostel-in-dublin-1.1409189&docid=MNdhEVf0sBG3IM&imgurl=http://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.1409184.1369775310!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_300/image.jpg&w=300&h=172&ei=yyeyUcSAMqyP7AaW3oDoAw&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:1,s:0,i:84&iact=rc&dur=945&page=1&tbnh=137&tbnw=228&start=0&ndsp=10&tx=70&ty=34

Ah here, is anyone surprised anymore by the justice system here?

An Claidheamh

http://www.google.ie/imgres?q=judge+john+o+connor&sa=X&biw=1024&bih=499&tbm=isch&tbnid=e2eIzTMm6CcpqM:&imgrefurl=http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/court-hears-of-tragic-death-of-troubled-teen-found-dead-in-hostel-in-dublin-1.1409189&docid=MNdhEVf0sBG3IM&imgurl=http://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.1409184.1369775310!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_300/image.jpg&w=300&h=172&ei=yyeyUcSAMqyP7AaW3oDoAw&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:1,s:0,i:84&iact=rc&dur=945&page=1&tbnh=137&tbnw=228&start=0&ndsp=10&tx=70&ty=34




I need to learn how to upload photos.

Anyway there's the clown.

Worth remembering that the scumbag who murdered the German student last year was 16.

zenno

Earlier, the court heard that a welfare report showed the boy, who has no prior criminal convictions, had little insight into how his offending affected people. That was “very worrying”, Judge O'Connor had said.

He had also said he had huge concerns about the safety of others and “the lack of insight in relation to this is pretty startling notwithstanding his age, there is no acceptance that what he is doing his causing huge problems”.

So with all this worry about said scumbag, The judge just let's him go free regardless I think the judge has mental problems in my opinion. A hypocrite.

BlaasForRafa

the_syco wrote: »

Only the law-abiding fear the wrath of the law. The scumbags seem to just walk out after breaking and entering...!

Sometimes the Saudi Arabian method of dealing with criminals seems to be more appealing

woodoo

SHOVELLER wrote: »

Sad thing is in about 5 years time he will be dead or doing life for murder.

Preferably the former.


BTW I'm sure his next victim will be happy that the judge let him free. If paddy power had odds on this guy re offending i'd put the house on it.

kowloon

Given the refusal to apologise which, if the judge had kept his word would have resulted in a harsher punishment, I expect this teenager has some serious issues. I wouldn't expect many people to act against their best interests and scumbags apologise to the court all the time without a stain on their 'honour'.

shruikan2553

But it is societies fault that he ended up this way, he didnt get enough hugs and love so is acting out to get attention. We need to make sure money is put aside to help people like him and if he commits again then it just means we as a society havent done enough.:rolleyes:


There, I've said it so we dont need the usual people coming out and blaming everything but the person who committed a crime that he chose to do. Im sure he'll be back into court again all we can do is hope that someone's life isnt affected badly by him

Femme_Fatale

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

I'd assume being someone's cell bitch would only make him worse...

How can anyone think dehumanising and brutalising a kid will turn him into a better human being?

He's a very dangerous person in the making, if not already. Making him angrier and more damaged isn't going to cure any of that.

zenno

Candie wrote: »

How can anyone think dehumanising and brutalising a kid will turn him into a better human being?

He's a very dangerous person in the making, if not already. Making him angrier and more damaged isn't going to cure any of that.

A young person like this with that attitude will eventually be wiped out as he will mess with the wrong person or people and that will be the end of him.


Karma

Scruffles

Wibbs wrote: »

Sounds like he's got a Screw Loose(tm) mentally speaking. The lack of empathy for a start, a bit psychopathic. He needs careful monitoring and hopefully gets psychological help, being that he's only 14.

it sounds like EBD [emotional and behavioral difficulties,not a diagnosis but a label where people share lots of similarities due to different causes],he really needs to be taken out of that environment and put into a more theraputic place.

lacking empathy is not automaticaly pyschopathy/ASPD/sociopathy, am clinicaly lacking empathy entirely but have strong morals,follow rules and laws to the best of ability and have got no problem with authority.

the problem with much of the care industry is they dont see the kid [or adult] as seperate from the behavior.
kids are being written off as bad because the adults around them cant see how the behavior is seperate from them and does not define them as a person,as in...they dont see the behavior as bad they see the child as bad.
many of these kids grow up with such a bad experience of humans that they dont understand the concept of being respectful of other people,how can they if during the most vulnerable years of their life when imprinting and attachment happens; they are neglected or abused?

ontop of this they see themselves being treated as bad little shts because of behaviors they did,the adults around them give off clear expectations of the child to be bad. -when a person is immersed in expectations of themselves being bad they will act that way as for all they know that is what humans have come to expect of them.

and peoples personalities adapt differently to the experiences life throws so just because one person who had been abused may get through life fine it doesnt mean the next will be the same-everyone is different.

am not excusing this lads behavior, there needs to be consequences which has not been done and will only make the lads thinking more screwed up, but people need to look deeper into his circumstances before coming to conclusion rather than making a close minded judgement.

zenno

That kid should be removed from his local area/location and sent to another county far away for long-term treatment so he has no connection or dealings with the crowd he is usually with, so-called friends and such until a time has come as to improvement in his status.

Hitting this kid with love and kisses will never work as he will just laugh his head off and meet up with his usual scumbag friends and continue on to cause another burglary and possible heart-attack of an old person by robbing their home.

Strict measures need to be put in place for this kid because if they are not immediately put in place for him then he will continue into a long life of crime and may not even last a few years. Having this kid go local to services will be easy for him as he can continue to be at ease in his local area with whoever he hangs around with, removing him from his normal habitat for 6 months while getting treatment would be better.

ColeTrain

I'm getting sick of reading these stories. They're always the same. Little pricks running wild and then Judges not having the balls to impose a basic custodial sentence.

In fairness to the Gardai, they caught the ****er but are being let down, just like the Irish people - by our flawed justice system. Call me cynical but can we actually afford to send these vermin to jail? Because that's what it seems like.

**** the judge and the little prick in question.

Smidge

He's 14 for Christ's sake.
I am not for one nanosecond condoning what he did but you cannot just call this kid "vermin" and "scum" etc without for one moment thinking how he got this way(and no, don't want to hear about the sterilisation idiocy).

I see that he is in care but how the hell has society gotten to the point where we write people and children(and that's exactly what he is, a child)off with such venom.

zenno

As we all know at this time, there is NOwhere to put them until new prisons are built, and i can't see that happening soon either.

Sure they are letting prisoners out now if they only received a 1 year sentence for so-called minor crime. Crazy.

The prisons are all packed to the hilt, and then they have to deal with the EU human rights of the prisoner as they say they need space as the over-crowding situation is dire, so they let some prisoners out early (very early) to ease the congestion and to abide by EU Law or be fined again.

ColeTrain

Smidge wrote: »

He's 14 for Christ's sake.
I am not for one nanosecond condoning what he did but you cannot just call this kid "vermin" and "scum" etc without for one moment thinking how he got this way(and no, don't want to hear about the sterilisation idiocy).

I see that he is in care but how the hell has society gotten to the point where we write people and children(and that's exactly what he is, a child)off with such venom.

Anyone that robs a house is scum. At 14 I certainly knew that. **** him.

zenno

Smidge wrote: »

He's 14 for Christ's sake.
I am not for one nanosecond condoning what he did but you cannot just call this kid "vermin" and "scum" etc without for one moment thinking how he got this way(and no, don't want to hear about the sterilisation idiocy).

I see that he is in care but how the hell has society gotten to the point where we write people and children(and that's exactly what he is, a child)off with such venom.

Look i personally had a right f*cked up life when i was 13 and was left homeless and i was treated like a bag of manure but i never took it out on any other person and robbed old folks homes, i was bitter but i knew through all that that there was decent people out there and they can be damaged if i went down that road so i don't give an arse what people say.

Take him away from his local area, far away, and let him get the right treatment he is entitled to but professionally and hope for the best. Having him go to treatment in his own area and then allowed home is NOT going to work.

pharmaton

Smidge wrote:

He's 14 for Christ's sake.
I am not for one nanosecond condoning what he did but you cannot just call this kid "vermin" and "scum" etc without for one moment thinking how he got this way(and no, don't want to hear about the sterilisation idiocy).

I see that he is in care but how the hell has society gotten to the point where we write people and children(and that's exactly what he is, a child)off with such venom.

there's two kinds of people in this world, the ones who will hurt others when they're angry and the ones who will hurt themselves when life doesn't go their way. You can't teach people remorse, you can't force anybody to be sorry, it's something they (hopefully) figure out for themselves in time but meanwhile, I consider those willing to hurt others as a danger to society and should be treated as such and taken out of it.

Smidge

zenno wrote: »

Look i personally had a right f*cked up life when i was 13 and was left homeless and i was treated like a bag of manure but i never took it out on any other person and robbed old folks homes, i was bitter but i knew through all that that there was decent people out there and they can be damaged if i went down that road so i don't give an arse what people say.

Take him away from his local area, far away, and let him get the right treatment he is entitled to but professionally and hope for the best. Having him go to treatment in his own area and then allowed home is NOT going to work.

Mine was no picnic either Zenno so, like you, know the real score here.
I think you must have met at least one decent person along the way and that got you through.

I reckon this kid hasn't met that person yet.

I've always said you only need one break to make the difference, the one right person to come along at the right time.

Totally agree with getting him as far away as possible from his situation.
As adults we know that removing ourselves from a situation can change everything.
He's a kid, in care, others are making the choices for him in this regard.

It always makes me sit back when people write someone so young off so quickly.
A mile in their shoes and all that...............

ColeTrain

Smidge wrote: »

I think you must have met at least one decent person along the way and that got you through.

I reckon this kid hasn't met that person yet.

I've always said you only need one break to make the difference, the one right person to come along at the right time.

How can you possibly know that from reading that article?

The only thing we do know is that he robbed a house and has shown no remorse. Everything else is speculative at best, so there's no point in trying to make excuses for him. He knew between right and wrong and did wrong.

I'm not saying 'give him the electric chair' but is it that much to ask that he be punished ?

Smidge

ColeTrain wrote: »

How can you possibly know that from reading that article?

The only thing we do know is that he robbed a house and has shown no remorse. Everything else is speculative at best, so there's no point in trying to make excuses for him. He knew between right and wrong and did wrong.

I'm not saying 'give him the electric chair' but is it that much to ask that he be punished ?

How can I possibly know what from the article?

Also, how do you know that he knew right from wrong?

zenno

Smidge wrote: »

Mine was no picnic either Zenno so, like you, know the real score here.
I think you must have met at least one decent person along the way and that got you through.

I reckon this kid hasn't met that person yet.

I've always said you only need one break to make the difference, the one right person to come along at the right time.

Totally agree with getting him as far away as possible from his situation.
As adults we know that removing ourselves from a situation can change everything.
He's a kid, in care, others are making the choices for him in this regard.

It always makes me sit back when people write someone so young off so quickly.
A mile in their shoes and all that...............

I met not one but quite a few good folks that helped me out, and my respect for people since then, way in the past will continue for a long time because even back then i knew most people were decent.

That kid at his age can be helped, but the social services need to pick a good professional that has an open mind and of good character and of which can constantly communicate with this kid on an ongoing basis for at least 6 months, more preferably one year to teach him how his actions affect others.

He is very young indeed and i would like to see someone help him in his way's as we all need help at certain times in our life especially at that age, but the way services are run in this country, i'm not optimistic, with cuts all over the structure it's going to affect these people.

And also, who is to say this kid will ever learn ?. Worth a try though, but only if done correctly. Some kids this age can be turned around but not all unfortunately.

ColeTrain

Smidge wrote: »

How can I possibly know what from the article?

You posted this just above..

Smidge wrote: »

I think you must have met at least one decent person along the way and that got you through.

I reckon this kid hasn't met that person yet.

I've always said you only need one break to make the difference, the one right person to come along at the right time.

How can you "reckon" that he hasn't met one decent person in his life who's looking out for him, he could have 50..

Smidge wrote: »

Also, how do you know that he knew right from wrong?

You're now telling me a 14 year old doesn't know that robbing a house is wrong? C'mon, we're not talking about a 4 year old or a jack russell..

Smidge

ColeTrain wrote: »

You posted this just above..

I was talking to Zenno with regard to how he got through a difficult childhood experience.



How can you "reckon" that he hasn't met one decent person in his life who's looking out for him, he could have 50..

If you meet the "right" one person that's all you need.

You're now telling me a 14 year old doesn't know that robbing a house is wrong? C'mon, we're not talking about a 4 year old or a jack russell..

Lets look at the facts, he didn't apologise in the court.
You and I are different from this kid.
We have been TAUGHT right from wrong from birth.

Live in a world where there are no such ideals from birth and see how far you get.
If you live in a world that you don't get a chance from the get go and the world is dog eat dog from the time you can walk or talk, you soon learn to survive.
With whatever you have to do and by whatever means necessary.

You don't have the same start, the same chances as everyone else.
Still not excusing what he did btw, just giving reasons for it.

ColeTrain

Smidge wrote: »

Lets look at the facts, he didn't apologise in the court.
You and I are different from this kid.
We have been TAUGHT right from wrong from birth.

Live in a world where there are no such ideals from birth and see how far you get.
If you live in a world that you don't get a chance from the get go and the world is dog eat dog from the time you can walk or talk, you soon learn to survive.
With whatever you have to do and by whatever means necessary.

You don't have the same start, the same chances as everyone else.
Still not excusing what he did btw, just giving reasons for it.

The article states he has no prior convictions So what's the point in trying to guess his upbringing, why not just look at the facts?

He robbed a house, he has no remorse and has escaped prison.

Why should we feel sympathy for him or offer wishy-washy excuses for his behaviour? My thoughts on this are, **** him, shame on the judge and any of my sympathies are with the victim(s) of his robbery.

Pat Mustard

He also said the boy's level of understanding unlike that of an average child of the same age.

Sounds like lawyer talk for "the kid's a dumbass."

They could have got a medic's letter if they knew of psych issues. (I'm not saying that there were no psych issues btw).

The teen had also said “I am not apologising....I am not writing a letter”.

Yup, the kid's a dumbass: but he's got principles.

I kinda admire him for that.

Reminds me of this guy:

zenno

There was one man that could turn most of these kids around and he was damn good at his job and i respect him even till this day in his Quest for helping young folk. His name was paddy culluthy from swords County Dublin.

That is a man that could communicate well and would never stop until you listened to him. If there were more like him, the Island would be a better place, he had the knack/gift in this field.


What does "my ball's and my word" have to do with this thread ?

Smidge

zenno wrote: »

There was one man that could turn most of these kids around and he was damn good at his job and i respect him even till this day in his Quest for helping young folk. His name was paddy culluthy from swords County Dublin.

That is a man that could communicate well and would never stop until you listened to him. If there were more like him, the Island would be a better place, he had the knack/gift in this field.

That's exactly what I was talking about, knew you knew "one" good person:)

I guess that people who really don't know how tough life can really be can be dismissive of kids, can talk the usual stuff about "little scumbags" and "lock 'em up" etc etc

Missed you edit before posting, is that for me?

zenno

Smidge wrote: »

That's exactly what I was talking about, knew you knew "one" good person:)

I guess that people who really don't know how tough life can really be can be dismissive of kids, can talk the usual stuff about "little scumbags" and "lock 'em up" etc etc

Missed you edit before posting, is that for me?

No it was for "The Mustard" the space-cake with his tony montana crazy clip

Smidge

zenno wrote: »

No it was for "The Mustard" the space-cake with his tony montana crazy clip

ColeTrain

Smidge wrote: »

That's exactly what I was talking about, knew you knew "one" good person:)

I guess that people who really don't know how tough life can really be can be dismissive of kids, can talk the usual stuff about "little scumbags" and "lock 'em up" etc etc

Missed you edit before posting, is that for me?

You've lived "the thug life" and you understand where this "kid" is coming from yo? That's your argument? Deary me..

Smidge

ColeTrain wrote: »

You've lived "the thug life" and you understand where this "kid" is coming from yo? That's your argument? Deary me..

You've just ruined your own argument.
What makes you think I have lived a thugs life? LOL

Hell of an assumption btw, goes to show how you tar everyone with the same brush!

ColeTrain

Smidge wrote: »

You've just ruined your own argument.
What makes you think I have lived a thugs life? LOL

Nah I don't think you have, otherwise you'd be doing something better than being on here late on a Friday.

Still, you said

I guess that people who really don't know how tough life can really be can be dismissive of kids, can talk the usual stuff about "little scumbags" and "lock 'em up" etc etc

That's one pile of hore**** my man.

ColeTrain

Smidge wrote: »

Hell of an assumption btw, goes to show how you tar everyone with the same brush!

**** me, you don't half do irony

I purposely over stated my response to this

I guess that people who really don't know how tough life can really be can be dismissive of kids, can talk the usual stuff about "little scumbags" and "lock 'em up" etc etc

You don't think that's one hell of an assumption!

Smidge

ColeTrain wrote: »

Nah I don't think you have, otherwise you'd be doing something better than being on here late on a Friday.

Still, you said



That's one pile of hore**** my man.

What's hore****?

I said "tough" life, no mention of anything thugish in there.
I guess you see what you want:rolleyes:

Smidge

ColeTrain wrote: »

**** me, you don't half do irony

I purposely over stated my response to this



You don't think that's one hell of an assumption!

Yeah, you are not really making sense now.

zenno

ColeTrain i feel the same but if there is a possibility of changing that kid around then it would be worth it.

Obviously what he done and got away with is a major bad thing and will cause despair for people and old folk constantly seeing the release of criminals of which could have done even more personal damage to the person in their own abode.

It is really now at a tipping point especially in the country where i can see soon of a news report in relation to 'burglar shot dead'.

Now, if a professional person from the social services can even get through to a few of these kids in this predicament of burglary and help them make a real life for themselves away from crime then surely that's a good thing.

I'm an optimist in most things but not really when it comes to the justice system in relation to this crime of burglary as the judges seem to think it's a minor crime unless they kill or batter the home owner to near death in some cases.

If even a small percentage of kids/teenagers can be changed for better away from criminal activity then it's worth it. The one's that don't are really putting their lives at risk.

ColeTrain

Smidge wrote: »

Yeah, you are not really making sense now.

Why am I not surprised I'm not making sense to you.

No offence to you but you're one of the most confusing people I've ever had to deal with on here.

You don't have an argument.

All you've done is search for excuses for this teen. You've gone on about his upbringing - even though you don't know anything about it.
I might have come on strong insulting him but at least I haven't tried to bull**** anything. He robbed a house, got caught, didn't care, got off without seeing a cell. Surprise, I'm not happy.

Between your sweeping generalisation - "you've had to have a tough life to understand the kid" which came after you ignored one of my posts, well I couldn't be arsed arguing with you anymore. Good night.

Smidge

ColeTrain wrote: »

Why am I not surprised I'm not making sense to you.

No offence to you but you're one of the most confusing people I've ever had to deal with on here.

You don't have an argument.

All you've done is search for excuses for this teen. You've gone on about his upbringing - even though you don't know anything about it.
I might have come on strong insulting him but at least I haven't tried to bull**** anything. He robbed a house, got caught, didn't care, got off without seeing a cell. Surprise, I'm not happy.

Between your sweeping generalisation - "you've had to have a tough life to understand the kid" which came after you ignored one of my posts, well I couldn't be arsed arguing with you anymore. Good night.

I didn't realise you were arguing with me, I'd have put more effort in if I'd have known.
As for generalisations, you seem to have that angle covered.

Pat Mustard

zenno wrote: »

What does "my ball's and my word" have to do with this thread ?

The kid was asked to write a letter of apology. He wasn't sorry, so he refused to write a bullsh1t, empty letter of apology. So I said that he's got principles.

Hence the Tony Montana clip. Tony has principles. He's got his balls and his word and he don't break 'em for nobody; do you understand?

It all makes perfect sense, really.

zenno

The Mustard wrote: »

The kid was asked to write a letter of apology. He wasn't sorry, so he refused to write a bullsh1t, empty letter of apology. So I said that he's got principles.

Hence the Tony Montana clip. Tony has principles. He's got his balls and his word and he don't break 'em for nobody; do you understand?

It all makes perfect sense, really.

Hey Mustard sorry my man i fully understand now, i just didn't read it properly as i was in and out of the room here every second. Yes it makes perfecto sense I'll try to be more observant in future, but it is very late or should i say early in the morning.

I think i was just testing the water as well.

Pat Mustard

zenno wrote: »

Hey Mustard sorry my man i fully understand now, i just didn't read it properly as i was in and out of the room here every second. Yes it makes perfecto sense I'll try to be more observant in future, but it is very late or should i say early in the morning.

No worries. Long past my bedtime anyways.

Greenmachine

We need chain gangs for this sort of thing.