Re-Occupy Galway discussion [Mod warning in post #1]

General General

yara wrote: »

yes we're all unemployed because none of want to work for corporations, i tell me little girl this everytime she needs something new

Jesus H. Crying out loud.

yara

so, after just setting up a facebook event to talk about coming back to Occupy Eyre Square once again to highlight local, national and global issues that effect us all either by higher costs for essential and basic provisions, luxurys like cars/houses/(insert high cost of living example here) etc, or under one of it's many guises (negative equity/slashed pension and/or wages/increased costs almost everywhere!!) with just over 300 replies and nearly 9000 views in less than 4 days, we can safely say the issue is being talked about again and who knows when where why what will happen with Occupy Galway 3.0 :pac:

ben.schlomo

yara wrote: »

so, after just setting up a facebook event to talk about coming back to Occupy Eyre Square once again to highlight local, national and global issues that effect us all either by higher costs for essential and basic provisions, luxurys like cars/houses/(insert high cost of living example here) etc, or under one of it's many guises (negative equity/slashed pension and/or wages/increased costs almost everywhere!!) with just over 300 replies and nearly 9000 views in less than 4 days, we can safely say the issue is being talked about again and who knows when where why what will happen with Occupy Galway 3.0 :pac:

I dare say nothing. If youre talking about public sector wages then there is much evidence to suggest thes rates should be cut, especially at the higher end, maybe ye arent for that either,how would one know though.

yara

yara wrote: »

so, after just setting up a facebook event to talk about coming back to Occupy Eyre Square once again to highlight local, national and global issues that effect us all either by higher costs for essential and basic provisions, luxurys like cars/houses/(insert high cost of living example here) etc, or under one of it's many guises (negative equity/slashed pension and/or wages/increased costs almost everywhere!!) with just over 300 replies and nearly 9000 views in less than 4 days, we can safely say the issue is being talked about again and who knows when where why what will happen with Occupy Galway 3.0 :pac:

There's the old Occupy Galway spirit. Try and spin the criticism into something positive and imply that it was your plan all along. OG in its many weeks encamped in Eyre Square accomplished absolutely nothing other than being an eye sore and ensuring that everyone who passed noticed the smell coming from the camp.seriously, when I think back over OG and my lasting memories are the smell and the unpleasent manner in which those representing the camp engaged with anyone who didn't agree with them 100% And if this thread is anything to go,all OG accomplished was annoying people.

antoobrien

yara wrote: »

yes we're all unemployed because none of want to work for corporations, i tell me little girl this everytime she needs something new

If there's any truth in this I hope all my tax money is taken back off you.

endacl

A Facebook page? Ah, that makes sense. Just get loads of people to like it and hey presto! Worlds problems solved. Explains why nobody turned up for Occupy 2: Occupy Harder.

Where's Kony at?

wexie

yara wrote: »

man that's not how it could play out at all, i speak for me alone here by saying each and everyone up to no good right now maybe welcome to stay in their positions and keep most of their legal renumerations but by christ they'd want to start doing what's right quick smart if the people come knocking or else you'll have the people baying for heads to roll. i would be happy to see a gathering of enough people to just demonstrate that we've had enough, 2 to 5 days of simply marching in numbers, absoltely no violence called for or allowed by the sheer numbers of people on the street would be enough to begin to rattle the elite into line.

That's a lot of talk and little substance. What I've been trying to get out of you is what you'd consider be 'what's right' and 'into line'.

Like I said, unless you can come out with statements that are a lot less vague than what's above I doubt you're going to get much support. Certainly not from me.

It'd be like voting for a political party that promises to make things 'better' without specifying what that might entail or who they're going to make things better for.

I've been trying to engage with you reasonably, without letting any prejudice getting in the way however you've yet to come up with a single example of what needs fixing and how you'd like it fixed.

Shakti

And 'The interrogation of yara' continues, Yara I wouldn't offer any personal details to anyone here they have no right to demand it,

wexie

Shakti wrote: »

And 'The interrogation of yara' continues, Yara I wouldn't offer any personal details to anyone here they have no right to demand it,

Who's asking for personal details? Yara is asking for support, all I'm asking for is to know what it is that I'd be supporting with a little more details than 'we want change'.

I don't think that's too unreasonable?

TadghsMuffins

Whatever the intentions are of Occupy Galway (I don't see any clear cut objectives), I can't say I don't admire their stubbornness, "Lets sit here until we make the world better", although in my mind it's a pretty damn useless tactic, if you have something you want to fix, go out there, and fix it, as opposed to building an ugly play fort out of plywood in a public park, and sitting there, claiming the sun about the world around you and the changes you're making by sitting drinking tea out of canteens in you. I'm uneducated in the matter, and I'm sure there's lots about it I don't know, but from my eyes Occupy Galway are rebelling against nothing by making a haymes out of a public area and wasting time not helping anyone or anything.

squonk

yara wrote: »

we all gave so much time and effort to keeping the camp open and engage with people and deal with all sorts of internal issues due to the massive learning curve everyone had signed themselves up for by coming together to try start something, none of us had ever done anything like this before, we are sick of what we see in the media showing us how corrupt everything has become and are fed up of being expected to just get on with things. there is so much we could organise very quickly if the support was there but until then we're only hypothesising, a few of us have done all that we could on our own and some have paid a heavy price for doing so too.

Was 215 people not enough support for you? How long were you all occupying the square for again? 5-6 months was it? Maybe my figures are wrong, I did see somewhere else that there was a core group of 20-30 of you so lets take that figure. I worked in a startup company at one point. There were 3 of us. When I arrived on day 1 there was nothing. Within six months we had set up our infrastructure, gotten the core of our software written, at least to a medium level of functionality and had a clear plan at that stage of milestones we needed to hit to launch six months after that. That's what 3 people can do in a high pressure, directed environment. Now, where were the 30 of you after six months compared to when you set up the camp day 1? What have you learned and what did you bring from the experience in terms of planning going forward to organise a credible campaign? Above all else, what do you feel you achieved?

endacl

squonk wrote: »

Was 215 people not enough support for you? How long were you all occupying the square for again? 5-6 months was it? Maybe my figures are wrong, I did see somewhere else that there was a core group of 20-30 of you so lets take that figure. I worked in a startup company at one point. There were 3 of us. When I arrived on day 1 there was nothing. Within six months we had set up our infrastructure, gotten the core of our software written, at least to a medium level of functionality and had a clear plan at that stage of milestones we needed to hit to launch six months after that. That's what 3 people can do in a high pressure, directed environment. Now, where were the 30 of you after six months compared to when you set up the camp day 1? What have you learned and what did you bring from the experience in terms of planning going forward to organise a credible campaign? Above all else, what do you feel you achieved?

Debate apparently...

ben.schlomo

squonk wrote: »

Was 215 people not enough support for you? How long were you all occupying the square for again? 5-6 months was it? Maybe my figures are wrong, I did see somewhere else that there was a core group of 20-30 of you so lets take that figure. I worked in a startup company at one point. There were 3 of us. When I arrived on day 1 there was nothing. Within six months we had set up our infrastructure, gotten the core of our software written, at least to a medium level of functionality and had a clear plan at that stage of milestones we needed to hit to launch six months after that. That's what 3 people can do in a high pressure, directed environment. Now, where were the 30 of you after six months compared to when you set up the camp day 1? What have you learned and what did you bring from the experience in terms of planning going forward to organise a credible campaign? Above all else, what do you feel you achieved?

I'll field this one Yara, 'we have no answers', 'why should we', 'we dont have to have answers', 'we are just a few people' etc etc.:cool:

antoobrien

endacl wrote: »

Debate apparently...

No they haven't managed debate, that requires a conversation. All o.g. did, and it's proponents on this thread are doing is to preach and attack people that do not agree 100% with them as at least one of lemmings, sheep, or hostile.

All that I can see that they have achieved is to annoy people.

yara

antoobrien wrote: »

If there's any truth in this I hope all my tax money is taken back off you.

no it's cool because i know for a fact there are people out there who still have a sense of humour and can detect sarcasm when they see it dope

yara

ben.schlomo wrote: »

I dare say nothing. If youre talking about public sector wages then there is much evidence to suggest thes rates should be cut, especially at the higher end, maybe ye arent for that either,how would one know though.

yes, how would one know, one would have to engage with people and try work together to highlight the issues,

I was actually commenting on all wages as there are huge numbers of people who do more work now for less pay and entitlements, they can buy less with their money due to spiraling costs...

antoobrien

yara wrote: »

no it's cool because i know for a fact there are people out there who still have a sense of humour and can detect sarcasm when they see it dope

It's not sarcastic when it was shouted at you across the "fence" at the "camp" for wearing a top with your company logo on it.

Give me back my money.

yara

antoobrien wrote: »

It's not sarcastic when it was shouted at you across the "fence" at the "camp" for wearing a top with your company logo on it.

Give me back my money.

in fairness, what the hell are you on about?

antoobrien

yara wrote: »

I was actually commenting on all wages as there are huge numbers of people who do more work now for less pay and entitlements, they can buy less with their money due to spiraling costs...

Spiralling costs? In general things are 2% higher than they were 18 months ago. That's not spiralling that's considered lower than normal (normal being 2% per year).

In fact if you look at the prices you'll see that a lot of things are cheaper than they were - despite the statements to the contrary:

Consumer Price Index (Base Dec 2011=100) by Commodity Group and Month
area |2013M01|2013M02|2013M03|2013M04
All items|100.7|101.5|101.9|101.9
Food and non-alcoholic beverages|101.9|101.7|101.2|101.7
Alcoholic beverages and tobacco|108.2|108.7|108.7|108.2
Clothing and footwear|88.2|94.5|98.1|97.7
Housing, water, electricity, gas and other fuels|98.1|98.4|98.5|98.6
Furnishings, household equipment and routine household maintenance|94.3|96.0|95.7|95.3
Health|101.2|101.4|101.5|101.7
Transport|104.3|105.3|106.6|105.7
Communications|94.5|96.0|94.9|95.1
Recreation and culture|99.3|99.6|99.6|99.0
Education|104.7|104.7|104.7|104.8
Restaurants and hotels|101.7|102.3|102.7|102.8
Miscellaneous goods and services|104.6|104.3|105.7|107.0

zarquon

Careful now anto, your statistics and actual verified data is no match for the hyperbole of OG.

ben.schlomo wrote: »

I'll field this one Yara, 'we have no answers', 'why should we', 'we dont have to have answers', 'we are just a few people' etc etc.:cool:

You also forgot, "how can we have answers if people won't help us" "Come join us and then we'll have the answers because the current member don't know what to do"

yara

squonk wrote: »

Was 215 people not enough support for you? How long were you all occupying the square for again? 5-6 months was it? Maybe my figures are wrong, I did see somewhere else that there was a core group of 20-30 of you so lets take that figure. I worked in a startup company at one point. There were 3 of us. When I arrived on day 1 there was nothing. Within six months we had set up our infrastructure, gotten the core of our software written, at least to a medium level of functionality and had a clear plan at that stage of milestones we needed to hit to launch six months after that. That's what 3 people can do in a high pressure, directed environment. Now, where were the 30 of you after six months compared to when you set up the camp day 1? What have you learned and what did you bring from the experience in terms of planning going forward to organise a credible campaign? Above all else, what do you feel you achieved?

first off, where are you getting 215 people from? We were one of the smallest Occupy groups yet we managed to become the third longest Occupy in the world with an uninterrupted 215 days of occupation (8 long months waiting for people to say they've had enough also)

your startup analogy, however impressive I'm sure ye all knew what ye were doing or had the sufficient skills and supports to do the job ye were hired for. you can't blame a few random people being left to try organise something none of us had ever been involved in before, while under the same pressures as everyone else with family and either looking for work, working or caring for sick relatives, while trying to engage with media and so many different people at the camp or online, all the while watching the other occupies to see what's happening with them. what you've just shown is that if a handful of people who had the necessary skill set but were out of work at the time or even spared a few hours a week while working, could have come into Occupy and helped our infrastructure, gotten the core of our objectives written, at least to a medium level of functionality and had a clear plan at that stage of milestones we needed to hit to launch six months after that.

Occupy has definitely started up more debate since it arrived on the scene than was out there before it. all it took was one day of a recent poster campaign to reignite the whole occupy debate and after 9 reports in local newspapers over the course of 2 weeks, 2 front page stories and a successful return to eyre square on May 16th with Garda present from 10am until 12pm even though we had all gone home by 8.30pm! We are all delighted with the amount of debate going on but saddened that people are still happy to commit so much to this thread but no way would they join their fellow Irish people and try start something.

yara

antoobrien wrote: »

Spiralling costs? In general things are 2% higher than they were 18 months ago. That's not spiralling that's considered lower than normal (normal being 2% per year).

In fact if you look at the prices you'll see that a lot of things are cheaper than they were - despite the statements to the contrary:

Consumer Price Index (Base Dec 2011=100) by Commodity Group and Month
area |2013M01|2013M02|2013M03|2013M04
All items|100.7|101.5|101.9|101.9
Food and non-alcoholic beverages|101.9|101.7|101.2|101.7
Alcoholic beverages and tobacco|108.2|108.7|108.7|108.2
Clothing and footwear|88.2|94.5|98.1|97.7
Housing, water, electricity, gas and other fuels|98.1|98.4|98.5|98.6
Furnishings, household equipment and routine household maintenance|94.3|96.0|95.7|95.3
Health|101.2|101.4|101.5|101.7
Transport|104.3|105.3|106.6|105.7
Communications|94.5|96.0|94.9|95.1
Recreation and culture|99.3|99.6|99.6|99.0
Education|104.7|104.7|104.7|104.8
Restaurants and hotels|101.7|102.3|102.7|102.8
Miscellaneous goods and services|104.6|104.3|105.7|107.0

you have to be a particular type of an asshole to try suggest people aren't suffering or struggling today in Ireland and across the whole world.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/families-suffer-as-cost-of-living-soars-207611.html

Cash-strapped families face higher prices for everyday items like food and clothes as inflation rose three times faster than expected last month.

By Conall Ó Fátharta
The CSO Consumer Price Index (CPI) jumped 0.6% in August, bringing the annual rate to 2%.

Ahead of a hairshirt budget in December, and following the recent announcement of a 8.5% hike in gas prices and a 5.9% rise in electricity from next month, economists have warned prices are likely to climb even higher before the end of the year.

The latest figures show the price of food, clothing and footwear, furnishings, household equipment and maintenance, transport and education have all gone up.

Basic foods saw some of the most dramatic price increases. The price of potatoes has jumped a stagging 17% in the last month and more than 11% in the past year. The combined effects of poor yields, due to a bad summer, and lower acreage is largely to blame.

Other foods like coffee (4.3%), confectionery products (3%), lamb and goat (2.3%), pork (2.1%), dried fruit and nuts (1.6%), fruit and vegetable juices (1.3%), tea (1.2%), breakfast cereals (0.9%) and baby food (0.9%) also saw price increases.

Clothing and footwear have also seen significant price rises, with the price of garments up 7.7%, shoes and other footwear (4.3%), other articles of clothing and clothing accessories (3%), and dry cleaning and laundry (0.4%). There were also price increases for diesel (4%), petrol (3.5%), other vehicle costs (2%) and air travel (1%).

The cost of education, while remaining unchanged for August, has increased by over 9.5% in the past year, mainly due to third-level education costs rising.

Prices for housing repair, maintenance, and water showed price decreases for August as a result of lower mortgage interest repayments. However, these were partially offset by increases in the cost of electricity, home heating oil, and gas.

Chief economist with Davy stockbrokers Conall MacCoille said he did not expect price pressures on families to ease much in the coming months.

“Announced energy price rises will push up CPI inflation in quarter four by higher than we had expected. Stronger prices will squeeze consumers’ spending power heading into the final months of the year. CPI inflation is now likely to stay close to 2% in the remainder of 2012, pushing down on real incomes and posing a threat to consumer spending growth in the final quarter of the year.”

Regional vice president of St Vincent de Paul Cork Brendan Dempsey said the increasing cost of basic, everyday goods was putting huge strain on families.

“People really are under huge pressure at the moment. We see gas and electricity prices on the rise again, the cost of food and clothes continuing to rise but benefits are going down. Struggling families just don’t seem to be getting respite on anything at the moment.”

Meanwhile, the country’s leading economic think-tank has advised additional cuts of €1.9bn in the next three budgets. It said the Government should not rule out income tax increases and cuts to public service pay and social welfare rates.

wexie

yara wrote: »

first off, where are you getting 215 people from? We were one of the smallest Occupy groups yet we managed to become the third longest Occupy in the world with an uninterrupted 215 days of occupation (8 long months waiting for people to say they've had enough also)

your startup analogy, however impressive I'm sure ye all knew what ye were doing or had the sufficient skills and supports to do the job ye were hired for. you can't blame a few random people being left to try organise something none of us had ever been involved in before, while under the same pressures as everyone else with family and either looking for work, working or caring for sick relatives, while trying to engage with media and so many different people at the camp or online, all the while watching the other occupies to see what's happening with them. what you've just shown is that if a handful of people who had the necessary skill set but were out of work at the time or even spared a few hours a week while working, could have come into Occupy and helped our infrastructure, gotten the core of our objectives written, at least to a medium level of functionality and had a clear plan at that stage of milestones we needed to hit to launch six months after that.

Occupy has definitely started up more debate since it arrived on the scene than was out there before it. all it took was one day of a recent poster campaign to reignite the whole occupy debate and after 9 reports in local newspapers over the course of 2 weeks, 2 front page stories and a successful return to eyre square on May 16th with Garda present from 10am until 12pm even though we had all gone home by 8.30pm! We are all delighted with the amount of debate going on but saddened that people are still happy to commit so much to this thread but no way would they join their fellow Irish people and try start something.

But you're still not saying anything!!!

Organise what something? what objectives? what are you launching?

What is it you want us, the Irish people, to come help you start?

A revolution?
A new political party?
Field mouse saving scheme?
Space exploration?
Better living through emoticons?
Save a cow, eat a pussy?

What is it you're looking to achieve?

(BTW, I have to give you credit, you'd do well in politics, you evade questions and give vague statements like them best of them;).)

Storm 10

He went to the Sinn Fein school of avoiding and answering questions that he does not like, he has some neck coming on here and posting that he is on the dole and telling his kids why he does not work.. I want my money back also,I am working my butt off so the likes of you can sit around all day and print total tripe.
:mad::mad::mad:

yara

Storm 10 wrote: »

He went to the Sinn Fein school of avoiding and answering questions that he does not like, he has some neck coming on here and posting that he is on the dole and telling his kids why he does not work.. I want my money back also,I am working my butt off so the likes of you can sit around all day and print total tripe.
:mad::mad::mad:

I do not tell my little girl that i don't want to work! so what do you suggest each and every single person currently on the dole in Ireland, or in jobsbridge temporarily, or doing a level 5 fetac with no real prospects of jobs for anyone of these hundreds of thousands of people when they finish, we should all just be quiet is it? dangerous thinking suggesting that people out of work cannot protest against the ****ty system that has enabled all this suffering

yara

wexie wrote: »

But you're still not saying anything!!!

Organise what something? what objectives? what are you launching?

What is it you want us, the Irish people, to come help you start?

A revolution?
A new political party?
Field mouse saving scheme?
Space exploration?
Better living through emoticons?
Save a cow, eat a pussy?

What is it you're looking to achieve?

(BTW, I have to give you credit, you'd do well in politics, you evade questions and give vague statements like them best of them;).)

really and truly, what are you on about at all? if you have to ask what this country may need, a revolution, a new political party, save a cow or eat a pussy then I am not going to waste my time tryign to engage with your stupid trolling nonsense, it's been stated over and over again Occupy were to encourage and facilitate debate on ALL the issues effecting us all, that's each and every issue negatively effecting us while certain sections of society have increased their wealth over the last 5/6 years.

we want to achieve a lot actually but if you lot don't get involved with something, be it occupy or any other group out there that are doing lots of good work then you're all dragging this out unnecessarily on everyone

Storm 10

yes we're all unemployed because none of want to work for corporations, i tell me little girl this everytime she needs something new

So you wont work for Corporations that to me is you dont want to work, get off your ass and look for something because I am sick and tired funding the likes of you that want to sit and enjoy doing nothing..

biko

Storm 10 wrote: »

He went to the Sinn Fein school of avoiding and answering questions that he does not like, he has some neck coming on here and posting that he is on the dole and telling his kids why he does not work.. I want my money back also,I am working my butt off so the likes of you can sit around all day and print total tripe.
:mad::mad::mad:

yara wrote: »

no it's cool because i know for a fact there are people out there who still have a sense of humour and can detect sarcasm when they see it dope

These two posts infracted for being uncivil, next time ban.

?Cee?view

yara wrote: »

..... a successful return to eyre square on May 16th with Garda present from 10am until 12pm even though we had all gone home by 8.30pm! ....

I haven't contributed to this thread as to do so seems largely pointless. However, I couldn't let this pass by.

Successful = Garda presence? This really epitomises protesting for the sake of protesting.

I too am annoyed at our so called leaders, both nationally and locally. OG exacerbates this annoyance as ordinary Joe and Josephine Soaps are being hounded daily for various matters by our local council and various authorities, but OG are and have been allowed to get away with violating our laws and violating our square. Double standards.

endacl

yara wrote: »

I do not tell my little girl that i don't want to work! so what do you suggest each and every single person currently on the dole in Ireland, or in jobsbridge temporarily, or doing a level 5 fetac with no real prospects of jobs for anyone of these hundreds of thousands of people when they finish, we should all just be quiet is it? dangerous thinking suggesting that people out of work cannot protest against the ****ty system that has enabled all this suffering

The problem with occupy, and with many grassroot movements on the left is that while babbling on about inclusion, they exclude. As I said earlier in thread, I'm broadly sympathetic to many of the points such groups have put forward. However, in conversations with the good people manning the shanty outside the central bank in Dublin, and with your good selves in Galway, once I didn't 'commit' - whatever that means, I was met with derision. I can only imagine the reaction people who genuinely disagreed with them met. Its up to everybody to make the changes they see fit, to the best of their ability, or not. 'If you're not with us, you're against us' won't endear ye to people who would be happy to help if you were actually happy to let them. Occupiers, I've found, like the eco-warriors and many other disaffected whingers before them, don't really want things to change. They'd have nothing to shout about.

If you want real change, maybe you should stand up and ask for votes. Actually do something? Or would there be too many questions?