LUXOBARGE (sub5k) of the week/day

Midlandsman80

Ok seems to be the general consensus that they are a no go, thought it seemed a decent bit of luxury value at 2.5k (after taking off tax value).

If anyone spots anything similar, let me know, looking for jeep that can pull 3.5ton max when needed and something non agricultural, it can have 7 seats as I will change to commercial. Want something the Mrs would drive if I needed to take the car to bring more than 2 anywhere....

CianRyan

Midlandsman80 wrote: »

Ok seems to be the general consensus that they are a no go, thought it seemed a decent bit of luxury value at 2.5k (after taking off tax value).

If anyone spots anything similar, let me know, looking for jeep that can pull 3.5ton max when needed and something non agricultural, it can have 7 seats as I will change to commercial. Want something the Mrs would drive if I needed to take the car to bring more than 2 anywhere....

Range Rover seems like the obvious answer?

CianRyan

CianRyan wrote: »

Range Rover seems like the obvious answer?

For the budget you'd be looking at a 2.5 RR, awful slow things and most are in sh1t now

CianRyan

Augeo wrote: »

For the budget you'd be looking at a 2.5 RR, awful slow things and most are in sh1t now

Yeah I guess.
Land Cruiser Amazon is a mighty yoke.

unkel

Did you find a half decent Land Cruiser Amazon for within budget?

Only thing I can find on donedeal within budget is knackered old (90s) high mileage far more basic models. They are so far from a Luxobarge that I should be banned for even mentioning them

bear1

unkel wrote: »

Did you find a half decent Land Cruiser Amazon for within budget?

Only thing I can find on donedeal within budget is knackered old (90s) high mileage far more basic models. They are so far from a Luxobarge that I should be banned for even mentioning them

I've infracted you for this. Please do not post in this thread again.

Midlandsman80

I was hoping the consensus on the ML would be better but maybe that's why they are cheap....
if it is to be left to the Mrs the odd time I don't think the Amazon would be too handy about town... 2.5k would not be max, just mentioned that's what ML ex tax came in at...basically Jeep in luxobarge category.... Pref diesel, as if want to commercialise and sell again the local market to me would not be big for large petrol ones....

kupus

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

NO the oil prices wouldnt be a factor, or the depreciation cos that comes from the start and when it hits luxobarge territory then the depreciation has already hit.
I think its more a case of scarcity and a lot of those barges been sent out of country. Less product means higher selling price, as there always will be a market for these cars.
Its the exact same for heavy machinery, a lot of machines went out and only the sh1te of the sh1te was left and now things are scarce machines that were going for peanuts 2 years ago have doubled in price, even though they are crap.

eg jcb 3cx 4x4 going for 2000, now going for 4-5000.
other equipment I saw going for unbelievably for 80,000 is now 250,000.

same goes for bangernomics, people are buying up small 1 lt cars and the prices are steadily going up.

Tommyboy40

Midlandsman80 wrote: »

Ok seems to be the general consensus that they are a no go, thought it seemed a decent bit of luxury value at 2.5k (after taking off tax value).

If anyone spots anything similar, let me know, looking for jeep that can pull 3.5ton max when needed and something non agricultural, it can have 7 seats as I will change to commercial. Want something the Mrs would drive if I needed to take the car to bring more than 2 anywhere....

I have to disagree with the others. Pre 2002 cars were the original American design and pretty woeful. Facelift ones, easy to spot by the foglight under the bumper are far superior. Apart from the quality of the dash plastics and the armrest you could almost believe that you're driving a Merc. Check out the buyers guide on benzworld.org but we've put 100,000 miles on a late 2002 car (total 252,000 miles) trouble free. It's an almost identical engine to the E class minus a cylinder

CianRyan

unkel wrote: »

Did you find a half decent Land Cruiser Amazon for within budget?

Only thing I can find on donedeal within budget is knackered old (90s) high mileage far more basic models. They are so far from a Luxobarge that I should be banned for even mentioning them

Hilarious, Where's your suggestion?

Midlandsman80

Midlandsman80 wrote: »

............basically Jeep in luxobarge category.... Pref diesel, as if want to commercialise and sell again the local market to me would not be big for large petrol ones....

Inspired by the water charges video incident.......

Seem very reasonably priced. Mercedes engine I believe..... not a luxobarge imo but might suit you, especially as they are compact enough as 4x4s go, not as big as a Lancruiser LWB for example.

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2006-chrysler-grand-cherokee-limited-3-0crd/8280410



€5150 would creep into the €5K thread criteria I'm sure

Plenty of the older shape in budget but I think they were rather sh1te in comparison to the replacements.

CianRyan

There's a few 4.4 Rangerovera from €5-6k, surely worth considering.
I know they're a bit upper budget but with a bit of skimping and haggling you may be able to pull one for €5.5k?

astraj

Drove a grand jeep cheroke for a weekend a few years ago. Absolutely loved it to drive although it seemed massive on one way streets with cars parked both sides but I was probably nervous because the parking sensors keep beeping. Loads of power but a little thirsty. I would still buy one just for the presence they have.

Sobanek

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2002-bmw-735i-nct-and-tax/8254689
Cheap barging. Taxed and tested!

CharlieCroker

Lovely machine, i prefer facelift version personally but at that money, i wouldn't care.

You'd want to go in with your eyes wide open and get it thoroughly checked beforehand though

Odyssey 2005

Sobanek wrote: »

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2002-bmw-735i-nct-and-tax/8254689
Cheap barging. Taxed and tested!

Nct June 15:D

Sobanek

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Nct June 15:D

Next NCT Due By: Jun 05 2015

It's still 2014, you know? :pac:

Odyssey 2005

Sobanek wrote: »

Next NCT Due By: Jun 05 2015

It's still 2014, you know? :pac:

Yep I know,I did mean 2015,so six and a half months test left

Stallingrad

By God that is ugly, time has been kind to most of Bangles work, but not this one.

Sobanek

You'd be surprised how much difference the colour and alloys make to the E65.

Voodoomelon

I think that applies to a lot of cars. The E38 looked shocking on basketweaves.

MadYaker

Stallingrad wrote: »

By God that is ugly, time has been kind to most of Bangles work, but not this one.

It was always considered ugly I think. Cheap though!

ofcork

The facelift was a massive improvement,the original was brutal whereas the fl was actually a desirable motor.

Atlantic Dawn

I was expecting much more high end stuff to be on sale in the run up to Christmas on the cheap but I guess the drop in the price of fuel and recovery in the economy hasn't helped.

NCTd recently and up to Jan 2016 with new Bridgestone tyres, if they are new and not partworn stuff than the asking price isn't bad at all for a 72k miler if it's all nice and straight & honest.... might get if for €3000

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/jaguar-xj-series-xj8-low-km-02/8330464



I love the silver exterior with the black leather interior :cool:

L-M

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Never seen it before!

L-M

Thought I vaguely remembered it from somewhere on here.

unkel

Limerick man wrote: »

Thought I vaguely remembered it from somewhere on here.

I have made the comparison on here once or twice

But seriously, if you do low mileage and have a full NCB, it costs about the same to own a V8 E38 as it does to own a 2 year old Corolla...

Toyotafanboi

unkel wrote: »

I have made the comparison on here once or twice

But seriously, if you do low mileage and have a full NCB, it costs about the same to own a V8 E38 as it does to own a 2 year old Corolla...

i just thought i'd do the maths on that :pac:

1998 B.M.W. 740i
tax €1809
service: oil, 7.5 litres €60, plugs x8 €40
10,000 miles @ 22 mpg @1.25 per litre €2579

1 years running costs in a 740i €4488 (€12.30 per day)

Corolla 1.4 petrol
tax €385
service oil, 3.5 litres €30, plugs x4 €20
10,000 miles @ 42 mpg @1.25 per litre €1351

1 years running costs in a corolla €1786 (€4.89 per day)

€4488 - €1786 = €2702

so €2.7k per year (just shy of €7.50 a day, or 15% of your wages if you are on minimum wage) more in running a 7 series to a corolla over 12 months.

you could call it speculation, but you only have to type "E38 buyers guide" into google to see a pretty extensive list of stuff that can and does go wrong,
so i would be budgeting an absolute €500 minimum to rectify whatever can go wrong in the 16 year old 7 series over the year. a 2 year old corolla will
still be under manufacturers warranty. this would push the cost of running the 7'er up to €8.70 per day more than the corolla.
but we won't include that.

anyway, i hear you, depreciation, there is none on the 7 series, right?.

2012 corolla €15000 (current donedeal average) to buy
proposed value in 5 years (looking at current price of 7 year old corolla's) €8000

€15000 - €8000 = €7000. 7000/5 = €1400 per year depreciation in the corolla

1998 740i €2000 to buy (current donedeal average)
proposed value in 5 years (a figure i made up, as i couldn't hastily find any for sale) €1250

€2000 - €1250 = €750. 750/5 = €150 per year depreciation in the 740i

soooo, 5 years driving "all in" (tax, fuel, servicing, depreciation):
740i (€4488 x 5 + €750) €23190
corolla (€1786 x 5 + €7000) €15930

€23190 - €15930 = €7260, 7260/5 = €1452 a year (€3.98 a day) cheaper to drive a corolla even after depreciation is spoken for.

so, it's worth recapping:
running costs per day:
740i €12.30
corolla €4.89

running costs per day including depreciation:
740i €12.70
corolla € €8.72

all just for my curiosity's sake. i'd like to do this again with a 728i doing 5k miles per year vs the same corolla and see what it works out like. i've also done this at 2 a.m. so i could have made some glaring errors that i'm sure will be quickly pointed out.

unkel

There's nothing like doing a bit of maths at 2 in the morning

Hopefully you still have your spreadsheet open. Would you mind putting through the following changes for me? It's my bad, I should have been more specific but when I suggested this on previous occasions I might have been more specific:

1. The person buying the 2 year old Corolla would change car after 2 years, so let's go for a 2 year timeframe. It's a driver of nearly new Japanese cars. Not someone buying a nearly new car and driving it into the ground (I was that person)
2. Average mileage in Ireland is 10-12k. Low mileage in my book is say 5k miles
3. If you get 22mpg in a V8 E38, you will get no where near 42mpg in a 1.4 Corolla, more like 34mpg
4. I don't dispute your depreciation figures much, but I would buy better (€1k) and be more prudent: presume the car is only worth scrap (€250) after 2 years
5. I have owned an old E38 V8 from when it was 7.5 years until it was 13 years old. It cost nearly nothing in maintenance apart from servicing by a cheap yet very good BMW indy. I did spent a grand on a suspension job, but in above scenario of buying a €1k E38, I would have scrapped it / sold it on if it required anything like that.

Toyotafanboi

unkel wrote: »

There's nothing like doing a bit of maths at 2 in the morning

Hopefully you still have your spreadsheet open. Would you mind putting through the following changes for me? It's my bad, I should have been more specific but when I suggested this on previous occasions I might have been more specific:

1. The person buying the 2 year old Corolla would change car after 2 years, so let's go for a 2 year timeframe. It's a driver of nearly new Japanese cars. Not someone buying a nearly new car and driving it into the ground (I was that person)
2. Average mileage in Ireland is 10-12k. Low mileage in my book is say 5k miles
3. If you get 22mpg in a V8 E38, you will get no where near 42mpg in a 1.4 Corolla, more like 34mpg
4. I don't dispute your depreciation figures much, but I would buy better (€1k) and be more prudent: presume the car is only worth scrap (€250) after 2 years
5. I have owned an old E38 V8 from when it was 7.5 years until it was 13 years old. It cost nearly nothing in maintenance apart from servicing by a cheap yet very good BMW indy. I did spent a grand on a suspension job, but in above scenario of buying a €1k E38, I would have scrapped it / sold it on if it required anything like that.

ok, so what are we saying then?

a 728i that cost €1k, doing 5k miles per year, vs the same corolla as above over 2 years.

i took the mpg figures for both cars above from parkers.co.uk which i reckon is reputable, my own 1.4 corolla is doing 38mpg with my thrashing it when necessary so i reckon 40mpg could be cracked with ease.

don't go anywhere :P

unkel

Yeah something like that, but not a 6 pot E38. Only in Ireland is a V8 cheaper to buy anyway

About the fuel figures - I did roughly 20MPG in my V8 E38. And for reference, I managed about 30MPG in a 1.6l Nissan Primera and 40MPG in a 1l Micra

So I'd say using 22MPG and 34MPG in your comparison above would be fair?

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

don't go anywhere :P

I'm here for a while

unkel

And I did make a mistake in my earlier post. Whereas the Corolla buyer would buy a new (to him) car every 2 years, the E38 buyer would drive it into the ground. So I propose a yearly depreciation figure of no more than a few hundred on the E38...

Toyotafanboi

1998 B.M.W. 728i
tax €1391
service: oil, 6 litres €50, plugs x6 €30
5,000 miles @ 25 mpg @1.25 per litre €1135

1 years running costs in a 728i €2606 (€7.13 per day)

Corolla 1.4 petrol
tax €385
service oil, 3.5 litres €30, plugs x4 €20
5,000 miles @ 42 mpg @1.25 per litre €676

1 years running costs in a corolla €1111 (€3.04 per day)

€2606 - €1111 = €1495

so, just under €1.5k per year (just shy of €4.09 a day, or 8% of your wages if you are on minimum wage) more in running a 7 series to a corolla over 12 months.


anyway, depreciation

2012 corolla €15000 to buy (current donedeal average)
proposed value in 2 years (looking at 2010 models on donedeal) €10500

€15000 - €10500 = €4500. 4500/2 = €2250 per year depreciation in the corolla

1998 728i €1000 to buy (suggested price)
proposed value in 2 years (a figure i made up, as i couldn't hastily find any for sale) €850

€2000 - €850 = €150. 150/2 = €75 per year depreciation in the 728i

soooo, 2 years driving "all in" (tax, fuel, servicing, depreciation):
728i (€2606 x 2 + €150) €5362
corolla (€1111 x 2 + €4500) €6722

€6722 - €5362 = €1360, 1360/2 = €680 a year (€1.86 a day) cheaper to drive a 728i than a 2 year old corolla.

so, to conclude:
running costs per day:
728i €7.13
corolla €3.04

running costs per day including depreciation:
728i €7.34
corolla € €9.20

so in this case, depreciation saves the day for the 7 series :P but as you say yourself, a 728i isn't a v8.

might have another go tomorrow with some more numbers if you want to give a few definitive guidelines for the laugh.

unkel

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

soooo, 2 years driving "all in" (tax, fuel, servicing, depreciation):
728i (€2606 x 2 + €150) €5362
corolla (€1111 x 2 + €4500) €6722

cheaper to drive a 728i than a 2 year old corolla.

Aye

Thanks for doing the maths!

I used to drive nearly new Japanese basic cars myself (like most people in this country at the time), but by chance I bought a V8 BMW 14 years ago and I haven't really looked back :cool:

Apart from some very challenging economic times when I had to resort to bangernomics. Can't wait to get back to a very nice V8 engined car though

Toyotafanboi

a funny way to look at the 728i vs corolla argument is that the 7 series depreciates by €0.00.87 per hour (21c per day), where as the corolla depreciates by €0.25 per hour (€6.16 per day), 28 times harder.

in the 740i vs corolla over 5 years the 7 series depreciates by €0.01.70 per hour (40c per day), where as the corolla depreciates by €0.15 per hour (€3.83 per day), nearly 10 times harder.

unkel

And the funny thing is that nobody here seems to mind a €15 per day depreciation on their brand new 151D low end low power small basic car but they would never fork out €5 per day for motortax on a lovely big power luxury car that has almost no depreciation

Ah well

mullingar

@toyota

Great post, but where are you buying fuel @ 1.25??

I think for a true price comparison you need to use a 2 year fuel price average of around €1.50 as the recently cheaper fuel won't last too long.

Maybe throw in a LPG comparison

Edit, I see you calculated for 5k miles, would 10k not be better?

Big Nasty

I'm sure it's not always the case but in general you'll find the barge driver does below average miles.

Toyotafanboi

mullingar wrote: »

@toyota

Great post, but where are you buying fuel @ 1.25??

I think for a true price comparison you need to use a 2 year fuel price average of around €1.50 as the recently cheaper fuel won't last too long.

Maybe throw in a LPG comparison

Edit, I see you calculated for 5k miles, would 10k not be better?

i used €1.25 for as it's currently the cheapest available price for petrol on pumps.ie, in the interest of being fair to both cars. i guess the figures will be more dramatic, but still proportionate to one another if we went with 1.50 a litre.

i did a 740i vs. corolla over 5 years and 10k miles per year here (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=93650933&postcount=3131), the results were very different.

Eric Cartman

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

i used €1.25 for as it's currently the cheapest available price for petrol on pumps.ie, in the interest of being fair to both cars. i guess the figures will be more dramatic, but still proportionate to one another if we went with 1.50 a litre.

i did a 740i vs. corolla over 5 years and 10k miles per year here (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=93650933&postcount=3131), the results were very different.

including the depreciation theres about 4 euro a day in the difference. I would gladly pay 4 euro a day to drive a 7 series over a corolla, such a small amount of money in relative terms that its madness not to.

Eric Cartman

unkel wrote: »

And I did make a mistake in my earlier post. Whereas the Corolla buyer would buy a new (to him) car every 2 years, the E38 buyer would drive it into the ground. So I propose a yearly depreciation figure of no more than a few hundred on the E38...

I think the price they were a year or 2 ago means that as long as my e38 is drivable ill never see a cent of deprecation

Toyotafanboi

Eric Cartman wrote: »

including the depreciation theres about 4 euro a day in the difference. I would gladly pay 4 euro a day to drive a 7 series over a corolla, such a small amount of money in relative terms that its madness not to.

Absolutely, i mean people spend more than that per day on cigarettes to give themselves cancer, so in the grand scheme of things that isn't much if it's what you're into.

But i guess it's a car enthusiast thing too, i mean a lot of non car people would rather save €30 per week and drive a modest, nearly new car than drive an elderly, massive car.

Roles reversed, personally, i too would rather pay an extra €4 per day to drive a lexus ls430 over a 316i, but if i had 3 kids and a mortgage, that €30 per week might go better elsewhere.

Voodoomelon

Out of curiosity, has anyone around Dublin see my old blue 728i on the road, 00LH9092? I text the owner recently and he says its running perfectly, I often wonder where it went.

26000 Elephants

One important thing missing in the calculations is opportunity cost.

The corrolla driver has €15k cash tied up in the car. I know interest rates are low at the moment, but I could get 5% on this.
Otherwise, he is borrowing €15k over 2 years at probably 10%, so that needs to be factored in.

The low capital cost of the barge can be largely written off as pocket money.

Odyssey 2005

26000 Elephants wrote: »

One important thing missing in the calculations is opportunity cost.

The corrolla driver has €15k cash tied up in the car. I know interest rates are low at the moment, but I could get 5% on this.
Otherwise, he is borrowing €15k over 2 years at probably 10%, so that needs to be factored in.

The low capital cost of the barge can be largely written off as pocket money.

Good point.

Stallingrad

Love it.

Though having been there we are missing the annual maintenance cost on older BMW's, plus preventive maintenance, expensive tires, obsessive detailing, etc. At best this is usually measured in extra €100's over the Corrolla.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

jimgoose

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Mmm. I'm running an old 3.0 V6 Duratec and it'll average about 25 if you watch it. I wouldn't dismiss that figure completely.