**HL Maths Paper 2 before/after**

decisions

Is the paper online yet?

TheChosenOne

OK, for question 8 (a)

(i) Drop perpendicular, use sin of 36 and get 47 km.

(ii) Use the cos rule, as you have both sides and the angle in between, get 168.35 km

(b) Could have done it two ways, either by dropping perpendiculars from R and T and subtracting the two smaller distances from the total |HP| to get |RT|, this way you get 38.9 km

OR

by saying that the angle HTP remains the same (=124), the other two angles are just flipped because the sides are flipped, then joining R to T and in triangle HRT you can get angle RTH = 20, (due to alternate angles and subtracting this alternate angle of 36 from 180 and then subtracting 124 from that), So you have two sides and an angle. Use Sin rule to find angle HRT, = 151.95 degrees (due to the ambiguous case of sines), then doing the sin rule again to find |RT| = 32.76

And the answers are different because SEC can't bother to think of a proper triangle: In the original triangle, if you try the sin rule, the ratios aren't equal ---- that triangle is impossible!

But could anyone check if my arguments are correct please?

I think they would give you the marks if you worked down to the solution in some way.

Copper_pipe

Yep

D_s

decisions wrote: »

Is the paper online yet?

Yes
http://www.examinations.ie/archive/exampapers/2013/LC003ALP230EV.pdf

TheChosenOne

decisions wrote: »

Is the paper online yet?

'tis: http://www.examinations.ie/archive/exampapers/2013/LC003ALP230EV.pdf

Prodigious

TheChosenOne wrote: »

OK, for question 8 (a)

The triangle does not exist. /discussion

suitcasepink

Anyone else thinking of the Mean Girls quote no?

THE TRIANGLE DOES NOT EXIST!!

jamo2oo9

Does anybody have actually report from SEC regarding Q8 of the paper? I'm a bit anxious and I can't find anything other than that solution answer from studentexpress.ie

randylonghorn

jamo2oo9 wrote: »

Does anybody have actually report from SEC regarding Q8 of the paper? I'm a bit anxious and I can't find anything other than that solution answer from studentexpress.ie

The world and his mother have been on to them about it, jam ... deep breaths!

TheChosenOne

Prodigious wrote: »

The triangle does not exist. /discussion

That's what I said later on xD No discussion, fact

yournerd

I spend like 30 minutes on that question cause like its worth alot of mark somg

Undeadfred

Keep in mind, the SEC might not actually award full marks for the question if there were only 2 possible answers you could get. They could award marks for attempts and all but if you didn't get either one of the answers they might mark you down

did anyone else do part b of the question by doing 110cos20 - 80cos36 = 38.6448?

peekachoo

I sense the SEC made that mistake on purpose to make sure the pass rate was higher

TheChosenOne

yournerd wrote: »

I spend like 30 minutes on that question cause like its worth alot of mark somg

Exactly! I was there thinking that I lost my mathematical abilities and that I forgot how to use the freaking sin rule!

Seriously, I'd say A LOT of people spent ages on that and as a result, other questions suffered! This is unacceptable!

Prodigious

Right, they rang me and asked what the problem was. Then they basically said "kthxbai"

ConorMD

randylonghorn wrote: »

The world and his mother have been on to them about it, jam ... deep breaths!

"The State Examinations Commission released a statement this evening which stated that there had indeed been a mistake in Question 8A and that this would be “taken into account” when the exams are corrected."

TheChosenOne

Prodigious wrote: »

Right, they rang me and asked what the problem was. Then they basically said "kthxbai"

AHAHAHA, LOL.

randylonghorn

ConorMD wrote: »

"The State Examinations Commission released a statement this evening which stated that there had indeed been a mistake in Question 8A and that this would be “taken into account” when the exams are corrected."

Source?

Raeral

Prodigious wrote: »

Right, they rang me and asked what the problem was. Then they basically said "kthxbai"

Hope you still had time to give that shout out to your boardsies

DarkDusk

randylonghorn wrote: »

Source?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0610/455807-leaving-cert-mistake/

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/two-errors-discovered-in-leaving-and-junior-cert-papers-1.1423719

randylonghorn

Good man yourself!

Kingkumar

lol i see this Q8 thing has become pretty big. just wondering for Q8(b) how would u find it if the triangle was possible? (and does drawing stuff to try make sense of it count as an attempt )
also in Q2 for the graphs can some1 explain to me how do u get the answers here. http://www.studentxpress.ie/ProjectMaths/HL2013AnswersP2.pdf

linguist

Never thought I'd be posting on a Maths thread but I would like to offer some reassurance here from what I do know. I mark but in a totally different subject area.

As many have said, all those who attempted the question can expect to be compensated but it's not possible at this point to anticipate exactly how. Either they will reward your workings, reward the possible but incorrect answers you arrived at or simply give everyone who attempted the defective question full marks. If I had to hasard a guess, I would imagine those whose workings/method is sound should receive full marks.

With regard to contacting the SEC, I would fully defend your right to do so. Spurious has said that the subject association and indeed the teachers unions will be on to it, but clearly those of you directly affected are in an excellent position to talk about lost time etc. One unintended side effect MIGHT be a tightening of the marking scheme on other questions should compensating for q8 throw the bell curve. I wouldn't worry too much about that, but it's where your observations about being thrown might be useful.

All that said, I would urge you to remain calm. I completely understand your annoyance and the feeling some of you have that this is incompetent, inconsiderate and everything else. However, this will be dealt with to the candidates' benefit. So please put it behind you and focus on the exams to come. Best of luck to all.

Thataone

Well overall, I much preferred paper 1 (as per usual).
I'm banking on attempt marks for this paper as I made some many stupid mistakes and left questions 95% finished, also spent an age on Q8 so had very little time to even make a half arsed attempt at Q9, which was a shame had I realised something was so off with Q8, I'd have gotten more marks for Q9. Oh well, at this stage, what will be will be. Can only hope the SEC manage to sort something out fairly that won't scupper some of our chances at passing the paper, let alone getting a relatively decent grade. Though I'm sure they'll be more put out by this mistake than anyone else - as long as they keep the fails to a minimal, we'll all be away with it!

DarkDusk

Contacted SEC press office by phone and operator told be that someone would ring me shortly (she mentioned inspectors or something )

The magic number, do it guys!
090-6442770

TheChosenOne

DarkDusk wrote: »

Contacted SEC press office by phone and operator told be that someone would ring me shortly (she mentioned inspectors or something )

The magic number, do it guys!
090-6442770

What's really the point? Could you get compensation for your moral sufferings?

11Charlie11

So last year project maths was getting so much crap about how hard the exam was etc. and this year it twas all good where the were maybe even getting a bit of positive publicity :rolleyes: ... now its back to giving out about it

Undeadfred

I can say at a 5% level of significance that Question 8 ****ed many people over

randylonghorn

linguist wrote: »

However, this will be dealt with to the candidates' benefit. So please put it behind you and focus on the exams to come.

While I wouldn't disagree with a word you've said, linguist, this is the bit I would focus on.

The SEC will deal with this issue and students won't lose out ... however, in modding this forum over the last few years I've known students get fussed about such issues in the past and spend ages worrying / emailing etc. on the evening of the exam, and then feel that it rebounded on them next day in their next exam.

lostatsea

I think it is important that everyone affected contact the SEC and make known your displeasure. Last year they made a mess of the trig question with the robotic arm. This year they made a monumental error putting down the diagram of a triangle that cannot be drawn. The story in the Irish Times seems to suggest that they should not have put in the 32 degree angle. But I don't buy that excuse because of the way they asked the question - they would have to interchange the first 2 parts.
The person writing this question has months to prepare it. No teacher of any competence would have allowed that question to stand. The SEC needs to get rid of whoever is behind these trig questions - they simply don't know what they are doing. I would complain so that whoever is writing these questions is sent packing by the SEC so students don't have to go through the same nightmare next year.