Is there a need for CCTV in schools

silentrust

touts wrote: »

I would be fine with CCTV in my child's Creche and next year in his School. BUT only if it was recorded in the scool office and not if it could be accessed by parents/grandparents/aunts/aunt's boyfriend/aunt's boyfriend's dodgy flatmate....

Anyway most abuse of children happens within their immediate family or family friends. I don't know 90% of the parents of children in my son's school but I'll bet there are at least a few that I won't hang out with in the pub let alone trust with a live video stream of my child. Why would that change just because their son or daughter is sitting at a table 3 rows further back?

Well said touts, we'd certainly need some assurances about the data not leaving the school -even if it would be cheaper to have some kind of centralised system. I mentioned working at the hotel. We only released CCTV footage in response to a request from Police or an Insurance company with the person's permission - it was written to DVD then either mailed or put into the hands of the Police Officer.

I think the advantage wouldn't be so much to prevent sexual abuse as much as it would shield teachers from false accusations. Can't imagine many teachers abuse children in the middle of the classroom after all but there are cases of kids conspiring to lie about a teacher. But if a teacher does go too far or its alleged someone said something they shouldn't have etc. CCTV can be very useful.

lazygal

I don't know a parent who hasn't had experience of teachers closing ranks. In fact, my own mother was told by a principal when I was in primary school that there was no point in her escalating a complaint against a teacher because the unions would fight it tooth and nail, and the teachers would all back each other up.

I am not in favour of CCTV in schools but I am in favour of teachers learning how to use expensive equipment properly.

silentrust

lazygal wrote: »

I don't know a parent who hasn't had experience of teachers closing ranks. In fact, my own mother was told by a principal when I was in primary school that there was no point in her escalating a complaint against a teacher because the unions would fight it tooth and nail, and the teachers would all back each other up.

I am not in favour of CCTV in schools but I am in favour of teachers learning how to use expensive equipment properly.

I must admit I was a bit leery about the undercover surveillance in some of the Kindergartens in Ireland recently but I live in hopes the ends will justify the means.

I hear you viz. technology but my experience was a lesson spent in front of the computers was a lesson wasted - too many distractions from t'internet. :-D

silentrust

Just been speaking to my Mummy who as you'll recall is a Teacher (she teaches law!) and a Trade Unionist. Understandably she was dead against the idea as she says the system would probably be use by senior staff to monitor staff performance and not for the purpose of crime prevention.

She also said she believes it would be necessary legally to obtain written permission for every child to be recorded so if even one set of parents disagreed, it wouldn't be clear how the system could go ahead. (Interestingly this wasn't a requirement when I was at school for the cameras we had outside the buildings... perhaps the laws are different for indoors?)

So it seems that while some of us may think it's a good idea, it doesn't seem to be practical legally for now.

Mummy also says I was a fascist B***** for even suggesting it. Thanks Mum. :-)

byhookorbycrook

Doom wrote: »

That's a crap argument money should never be a issue for child safety.

Sadly, it is, ask any parent who has a child who has SNA hours cut/totally removed.

deisemum

lazygal wrote: »

I don't know a parent who hasn't had experience of teachers closing ranks. In fact, my own mother was told by a principal when I was in primary school that there was no point in her escalating a complaint against a teacher because the unions would fight it tooth and nail, and the teachers would all back each other up.

I am not in favour of CCTV in schools but I am in favour of teachers learning how to use expensive equipment properly.

I've got immediate family as well as inlaws and friends who are teachers who can confirm what you've posted and I've lost count of the number of times I've been told that even if they witness something happening to a pupil that shouldn't happen the union reps and principals have them told to say they haven't seen or heard any such thing.

silentrust

deisemum wrote: »

I've got immediate family as well as inlaws and friends who are teachers who can confirm what you've posted and I've lost count of the number of times I've been told that even if they witness something happening to a pupil that shouldn't happen the union reps and principals have them told to say they haven't seen or heard any such thing.

All the more reason to have CCTV so there's an objective record of events say I.

mariaalice

I would not be in favour of CCTV, in classrooms, I doubt if physical assault by teachers is common society has changed and expectation have changed, however shouting is not that uncommon is it harmfully to be shouting at the children? I doubt if it is going to damage the average child, but that dose not meant it is right and it is probably a sign of stress and that the teacher is perhaps less that brilliant at their job.

When my oldest daughter was in Junior infants this was in the 1980s, the teacher use to shout continuously at the children and it emerged years later that she was manhandling them by dragging them out of their chairs and pulling them up to the blackboard, When I asked my daughter why she never said anything at the time her answerer was, she was doing it to everyone and we we did not think of telling anyone, she was a newly qualified teacher who by the law of averages must be still teaching.

My daughter had some great teacher in primary school who she was very fond of, but two other incidents stand out, one was a teacher who was a fanatical republican and Irish speaker from Donegal who was trying to influence the children, the other was a retied teacher who came back as a substitute and has them all prying to padre pio and wanted them to join the legion of Mary.

I would like to think that nowadays teacher would not get away with the above mainly because we have more sense as a society.

If you are not happy go to the principle in a calm way and explain they are obliged to listen to you.

silentrust

mariaalice wrote: »

I would not be in favour of CCTV, in classrooms, I doubt if physical assault by teachers is common society has changed and expectation have changed, however shouting is not that uncommon is it harmfully to be shouting at the children? I doubt if it is going to damage the average child, but that dose not meant it is right and it is probably a sign of stress and that the teacher is perhaps less that brilliant at their job.

When my oldest daughter was in Junior infants this was in the 1980s, the teacher use to shout continuously at the children and it emerged years later that she was manhandling them by dragging them out of their chairs and pulling them up to the blackboard, When I asked my daughter why she never said anything at the time her answerer was, she was doing it to everyone and we we did not think of telling anyone, she was a newly qualified teacher who by the law of averages must be still teaching.

My daughter had some great teacher in primary school who she was very fond of, but two other incidents stand out, one was a teacher who was a fanatical republican and Irish speaker from Donegal who was trying to influence the children, the other was a retied teacher who came back as a substitute and has them all prying to padre pio and wanted them to join the legion of Mary.

I would like to think that nowadays teacher would not get away with the above mainly because we have more sense as a society.

If you are not happy go to the principle in a calm way and explain they are obliged to listen to you.

Yes assault by teachers these days isn't particularly common as they can lose their jobs over it. Assaults by students against teachers are also mercifully very rare although it is a major concern of trainee teachers despite it being very unlikely to happen.

I am sorry to hear that your daughter had a couple of bad eggs and agree that CCTV wouldn't have helped much - presumably in Ireland you're supposed to teach without fear or favour of someone's religious/political beliefs in theory but in practice perhaps it's hard to achieve?

I was part of a campaign for a long time to deny members of the white-supremacist British National Party entry to teaching, just as they're not allowed to be Police/Prison officers, Doctors, Nurses and so on in the UK but it's still ongoing.

I suppose if CCTV recorded a teacher making a racist statement it might help build a case against them but perhaps that's too draconian.

wolfpawnat

I feel these days as well as protecting students, we need to protect teachers. I had terrible experiences with teachers in school, and I know one or two now I would be fearful to be in their class now, but there are some kids that are absolute little shíts and I have heard of some flinging dusters at a teacher and the like. That said, I am not sure I like the idea of people watching my son in his class either, it's all very 1984. There is no winning really is there?

Dravokivich

In my experience a reference to CCTV being implemented in school, was more so a threat towards students and for the defense of teachers. For that, I see no problem with them being implemented.

What stands out to me are initial costs for purchasing / installation and then periodic costs for maintenance, reviewing recordings, storage of recordings, upgrading and/or replacing equipment.

Is the value really there for all that?

silentrust

Dravokivich wrote: »

In my experience a reference to CCTV being implemented in school, was more so a threat towards students and for the defense of teachers. For that, I see no problem with them being implemented.

What stands out to me are initial costs for purchasing / installation and then periodic costs for maintenance, reviewing recordings, storage of recordings, upgrading and/or replacing equipment.

Is the value really there for all that?

One of my family who is a teacher said that originally they were introduced at the school to try to reduce the number of on site thefts. Turns out it was a gang of just three students (two boys, one girl) who continued to steal merrily because they didn't believe the cameras were real. I suppose we should be grateful they were caught eventually!

I suppose in terms of financial return it's difficult to justify CCTV but then schools as a whole aren't directly profitable ; we could save some benjamins by getting rid of the more exotic equipment I mentioned such as electronic whiteboards, as well as cut unnecessary subjects from the curriculum (they'll be plenty of time to study media when you're an unemployed adult!)