Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

cb400 problem

2»

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    Bad connections are most probable cause. I say that because it does start eventually.
    Check fuel supply also.

    Joe, Is the starter turning over when you hit the button, or is it acase of turning over ok but not firing ??

    She turns over but sounds very weak. After about 1 min trying she will start.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    Its gonna be a good old fashioned check for bad connections and like Wonda said it could also be a fuel problem. It will be Monday before I get a chance to have a look. Just from a quick look on the net it could be the started switch, a bad earth, dirty fuel etc.. the list goes on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 994 ✭✭✭LookBehindYou


    Joe,
    If the starter is turning over good, its a fuel problem.

    If the starter is weak, its an electrical problem. Starter relay, Starter brushes, connections, Battery, Reg/Rec.

    You can do a quick check on charging, by seeing if the headlight gets brighter when you rev, if so rule that out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    Joe,
    If the starter is turning over good, its a fuel problem.

    If the starter is weak, its an electrical problem. Starter relay, Starter brushes, connections, Battery, Reg/Rec.

    You can do a quick check on charging, by seeing if the headlight gets brighter when you rev, if so rule that out.

    Im off to work in 30 mins. Bike started fine there so ill take it today. The headlight did and has brightened when I rev. Old Yellar wont let me down. She just likes to embarrass me a traffic lights.

    Ps. Mick, I sent the old LP off last wed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    Ok I noticed on the way to work a spitting sound from the engine. Reminds me of the sound in my car when the injectors were leaking. The bike didnt cut out at all today so far.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 364 ✭✭bitburger


    had an issue with my bike acting like its battery was ****ed this week, even though it had 12.5v, turned out simply to be corrosion on the terminals not making a good connection. I even had 12.5v when i put the multimeter on the frame and solenoid to rule out a bad battery connection!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    bitburger wrote: »
    had an issue with my bike acting like its battery was ****ed this week, even though it had 12.5v, turned out simply to be corrosion on the terminals not making a good connection. I even had 12.5v when i put the multimeter on the frame and solenoid to rule out a bad battery connection!


    I started going through electrical connections today. The connections coming from the spark plugs had some corrosion alright so I cleaned them up. Next step will be to check fuel delivery system. The spark plugs were quite oily when I removed them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    Ok Electrical connections look ok for now. I must open the starter switch and double check for corrosion there. I picked up some Holts carb cleaner and a bottle of RedX also.

    Im going to attach 2 pic's. One is the spark plug. Should it be this oily? It wiped off easy and was not hardened.

    And the second pic is 2 rubber hoses coming from the carbs. Is this where I apply the carb cleaner?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,013 ✭✭✭✭Wonda-Boy


    Spark plugs should not be covered in oil like that joe, could be valve or ring issues. As for the hoses I cant see from that pic whats going on.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    Wonda-Boy wrote: »
    Spark plugs should not be covered in oil like that joe, could be valve or ring issues. As for the hoses I cant see from that pic whats going on.


    I found out where the holts spray goes anyway ( remove the air filter and spray it in there )

    Im studying up on carb removal and cleaning if thats needed. Cheers Gar


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,013 ✭✭✭✭Wonda-Boy


    I found out where the holts spray goes anyway ( remove the air filter and spray it in there )

    Im studying up on carb removal and cleaning if thats needed. Cheers Gar

    Joe,

    Just spray the carb cleaner on the walls of the carbs to remove any carbon build up (looks like black mould) spray the butterflies too. Dont go mental with the spray put it on a cloth first and a bit of elbow grease.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,907 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    Your pic doesn't show the electrode clearly, the threads are oily but thats not the part that sparks.
    Can you post a close up of the plug tips?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    CJhaughey wrote: »
    Your pic doesn't show the electrode clearly, the threads are oily but thats not the part that sparks.
    Can you post a close up of the plug tips?


    I wiped the plugs clean already. Ill post a higher quality image. For what its worth the electrodes on all plugs were dry and no sign of oil. From reading up I could be looking at some rubber seals needing replacing


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,907 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    I wiped the plugs clean already. Ill post a higher quality image. For what its worth the electrodes on all plugs were dry and no sign of oil. From reading up I could be looking at some rubber seals needing replacing
    Looks like a leaky rocker cover gasket, that can cause the threads to get oiled as they are removed.
    Is there oil around the plugs looking down into the plug well?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    No. I inspected each one when removing and it looks clean. Apologies if I am slow to reply ( window reg went in car today and im trying to get that sorted before tomorrow )


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    Ok lads im 99% sure its a faulty Reg/Rec which is causing my problem. At 6000 rpm im not always getting above 13.3v which would explain why my bike would die after an hour riding.

    My next problem is sourcing a new reg/rec to replace it. My current one is a SH633-12 ( ill post a pic also )
    There are so many types out there im not sure which one to order. I obviously want one of the newer mosfet ones but its confusing. I need one for my 1994 cb400 super four. Any ideas?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 364 ✭✭bitburger


    my cb5 uses the same reg is thats any help. a buddy got a cheapo one off ebay and it didnt last very long.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    bitburger wrote: »
    my cb5 uses the same reg is thats any help. a buddy got a cheapo one off ebay and it didnt last very long.

    The SH is the older type. I hoping for the newer FH version that will fit my bike. I wont be buying second hand.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166 ✭✭mgadget


    I got one for my old 94 CB400 from electrexworld.co.uk. Think it was about e90.

    They do have a very good troubleshooting flowchart on the site.

    I ended up changing the generator stator after changing the reg/rec and battery. Battery was always going flat. E


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    mgadget wrote: »
    I got one for my old 94 CB400 from electrexworld.co.uk. Think it was about e90.

    They do have a very good troubleshooting flowchart on the site.

    I ended up changing the generator stator after changing the reg/rec and battery. Battery was always going flat. E

    Lovely job. Ill bang off an email later to them and hopefully have old yellar back up and running by next wednesday.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,907 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    Any Shindengen Mosfet bar the one on the CBR1000RR will work on your CB.
    Try for a late model R1, the plugs that you need to fit it to your loom are available from easternbeaver.com.
    They aren't expensive 20 dollars for a set.
    I bought a late model R1 Reg/Rec from ebay for 30 stg and will be fitting an uprated stator later to up my power output from a barely adequate 180w to 300+w, this necessitates the fitment of a reg/rec that can handle the increased output.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    CJhaughey wrote: »
    Any Shindengen Mosfet bar the one on the CBR1000RR will work on your CB.
    Try for a late model R1, the plugs that you need to fit it to your loom are available from easternbeaver.com.
    They aren't expensive 20 dollars for a set.
    I bought a late model R1 Reg/Rec from ebay for 30 stg and will be fitting an uprated stator later to up my power output from a barely adequate 180w to 300+w, this necessitates the fitment of a reg/rec that can handle the increased output.

    Jasus CJ, most of that went over me head. How much is the new stator setting you back?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    These R1 reg/rec are like gold dust:mad:

    Do us a favor lads and keep your eyes peeled for R1 been broken for parts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭MonstaMash


    These R1 reg/rec are like gold dust:mad:

    Do us a favor lads and keep your eyes peeled for R1 been broken for parts.

    http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Yamaha-YZF-R1-R1-Regulator-Rectifier-Direct-Upgrade-Premium-Replacement-/231049239654?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35cb9b9c66


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    MonstaMash wrote: »


    Fair play Monsta. Think ill buy it to save me searching for the weekend.:)

    Can I just ask if its a Mosfet type?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,907 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    CJhaughey wrote: »

    Thanks CJ, Just waiting on him to get back to me on shipping costs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    Ok I nearly have the RR sorted. Im just browsing through the RR wiring kits on http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__Products/Connectors/R-R_Connectors/r-r_connectors.html at the moment. Its double dutch to me. Anyone in the know care to point out which wiring kit Ill need to match the RR CJhaughey linked to?

    Ill post a link of mu current wiring that goes to my old RR.
    It has 3 yellow, 1 green, 1 red&white wire & a earth wire.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,907 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    Ok I nearly have the RR sorted. Im just browsing through the RR wiring kits on http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__Products/Connectors/R-R_Connectors/r-r_connectors.html at the moment. Its double dutch to me. Anyone in the know care to point out which wiring kit Ill need to match the RR CJhaughey linked to?

    Ill post a link of mu current wiring that goes to my old RR.
    It has 3 yellow, 1 green, 1 red&white wire & a earth wire.
    The RR kit that you need is the Furukawa QLW .250 thats the right one for most Mosfet shindengen RR.
    I would buy the kit from him, measure up your wiring and get him to make the whole thing, that way you need to do the minimum crimping, all you will need to do is crimp the three yellow wires into the connector, bolt the wires onto the battery plug in and go. Apart from mounting the RR you may need to cut the fins a little to fit.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    CJhaughey wrote: »
    The RR kit that you need is the Furukawa QLW .250 thats the right one for most Mosfet shindengen RR.
    I would buy the kit from him, measure up your wiring and get him to make the whole thing, that way you need to do the minimum crimping, all you will need to do is crimp the three yellow wires into the connector, bolt the wires onto the battery plug in and go. Apart from mounting the RR you may need to cut the fins a little to fit.


    Is it just this 3P250WP-QLW Female Connector SET $18.62 set I need or do I also need
    3P250WP-QLW Female Connector Black $9.95
    &
    3P250WP-QLW Female Connector Grey $10.79

    ???


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,907 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    Is it just this 3P250WP-QLW Female Connector SET $18.62 set I need or do I also need
    3P250WP-QLW Female Connector Black $9.95
    &
    3P250WP-QLW Female Connector $10.79

    ???
    I would buy part A and part B, don't bother buying the plugs and then having to try and crimp them.
    Keep it simple. get him to do the important stuff and just plug and play.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    Ok thanks all for the info. RR & wiring+connections are ordered. Could be 2 weeks waiting on delivery but at least I can get the beast back on the road & hopefully put in some good practice before I do my test.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    The RR arrived today. Bigger than I thought. Ill have to reposition the fuse box & possible the starter. Like you mentioned CJ ill also have to shave the fins down on the RR.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,907 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    The RR arrived today. Bigger than I thought. Ill have to reposition the fuse box & possible the starter. Like you mentioned CJ ill also have to shave the fins down on the RR.
    I have the same one, its no problem shaving the fins down, use a hacksaw and then smooth them off by drawfiling.
    You won't have any problems with blowing reg recs with that unit anyway.
    I'd be thinking about mounting it on an aluminium plate which can be bolted in the original location.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    CJhaughey wrote: »
    I have the same one, its no problem shaving the fins down, use a hacksaw and then smooth them off by drawfiling.
    You won't have any problems with blowing reg recs with that unit anyway.
    I'd be thinking about mounting it on an aluminium plate which can be bolted in the original location.

    I dont have time to do anything today but it will take a bit of cutting and moving to fit it. And thats without an aluminium plate.

    No sign of the wiring been shipped yet. His info section says he will email me when its shipped. He seems grumpy about inquiries about shipping so ill give him until wed before I email him.

    P.s What bike did you fit your RR to CJ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,907 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    I dont have time to do anything today but it will take a bit of cutting and moving to fit it. And thats without an aluminium plate.

    No sign of the wiring been shipped yet. His info section says he will email me when its shipped. He seems grumpy about inquiries about shipping so ill give him until wed before I email him.

    P.s What bike did you fit your RR to CJ?
    Honda NX650J


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    If I take the fuse box & starter relay out of their stock position I can just about make the new RR fit. Its either that or fit the new RR in the tail somewhere. I plan to tackle it at the weekend. If anyone hears a loud bang followed by a mushroom cloud its just me:o


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,907 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    If I take the fuse box & starter relay out of their stock position I can just about make the new RR fit. Its either that or fit the new RR in the tail somewhere. I plan to tackle it at the weekend. If anyone hears a loud bang followed by a mushroom cloud its just me:o
    You'll be fine, those RR run a lot cooler than the old type anyway.
    How much were the leads from Easternbeaver delivered?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    CJhaughey wrote: »
    You'll be fine, those RR run a lot cooler than the old type anyway.
    How much were the leads from Easternbeaver delivered?


    They were 38 euro delivered. I guess you could knock them up yourself for no more than 15 quid but this is good quality wiring.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,907 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    They were 38 euro delivered. I guess you could knock them up yourself for no more than 15 quid but this is good quality wiring.
    Yes, and that's important for this application.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    Just want to make sure im good to go tomorrow with the install. The 3 yellow wires go to the RR. I have a black & red wire going from the RR to the Pos & Neg terminals on the battery. Ok so far so good. Im left with a red/white wire, a green wire & a green earth wire fom the stock RR connection. Do I just tape these up as they are not needed anymore?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,533 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Most bikes these days use permanent magnet alternators, the alternator output increases with revs, and the R/R just dumps the excess power as the revs increase. Older ones used electromagnets in the rotor a.k.a. 'field windings' and the R/R could vary the current in the field windings to control the alternator output.

    IF your bike has field windings and this R/R isn't designed to cater for them, you're screwed I'm afraid :(

    Are you absolutely sure this R/R is suitable for the model and year (and sometimes changes are made during a model year so you'd need to check the VIN as well.)

    A bike with permanent magnet alternator and no field windings will just have 3 yellow wires from the alternator. If it has field windings then it'll have a couple of additional wires. Where do the extra wires go?

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    ninja900 wrote: »
    Most bikes these days use permanent magnet alternators, the alternator output increases with revs, and the R/R just dumps the excess power as the revs increase. Older ones used electromagnets in the rotor a.k.a. 'field windings' and the R/R could vary the current in the field windings to control the alternator output.

    IF your bike has field windings and this R/R isn't designed to cater for them, you're screwed I'm afraid :(

    Are you absolutely sure this R/R is suitable for the model and year (and sometimes changes are made during a model year so you'd need to check the VIN as well.)

    A bike with permanent magnet alternator and no field windings will just have 3 yellow wires from the alternator. If it has field windings then it'll have a couple of additional wires. Where do the extra wires go?

    Ah bollox **** tits arse. Im not home till tomorrow so ill double check then. Thanks ninja
    All the wires went into the stock rr. 3 yellow. 1 red & 1 green


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,907 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    Out of the new R/R are two plugs, 1 with 3 yellow wires and 1 Black with 1 red and 1 black wire The 3 yellow wires connect to the alternator.
    The black and red out of the other plug go to the Battery, there should be a fuse in between the red and the + terminal.
    The lead with the double greens and a ring terminal goes to earth.
    Your old connector is redundant now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    CJhaughey wrote: »
    Out of the new R/R are two plugs, 1 with 3 yellow wires and 1 Black with 1 red and 1 black wire The 3 yellow wires connect to the alternator.
    The black and red out of the other plug go to the Battery, there should be a fuse in between the red and the + terminal.
    The lead with the double greens and a ring terminal goes to earth.
    Your old connector is redundant now.

    Ok ill fit the double green wire with ring terminal back to its normal position and tape off the other 2 wires.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    Just connected up the mosfet RR. Readings are looking good ( I think ).

    Idle im getting 13.5v

    2000rpm =14.6v
    3000= 14.16v
    4000= 14.18v
    5000&6000rpm = 14.20v

    It didnt go over 14.20v at all no matter what the rpm.

    The main thing is its charging at 6000rpm which the old rr didnt.
    After 10 mins of reving the bike the new mosfet rr was still cold to touch. The old one would have been fairly hot.
    Ill get to the job of fitting the new rr tomorrow

    So those reading look good to you lads?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,533 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Those readings look very good, the voltage is going up to the required level at a nice low rpm (important for town riding) and isn't going above that when revved higher.

    If you had an older type alternator with field windings, and there was no current going through them, then you'd get little or nothing out of the alternator.

    I dunno if this bike has permanent lights on. If not, did you see a difference in voltage between lights on and lights off? You might get a bit less voltage with the lights on but it shouldn't really drop below 14V

    Still though, it would be interesting to know where the 'mystery' wires went - I know they went to the old R/R at one end :) I meant where do the other ends go! It looks like you're in the clear, but it'd be interesting to know.

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    ninja900 wrote: »
    Those readings look very good, the voltage is going up to the required level at a nice low rpm (important for town riding) and isn't going above that when revved higher.

    If you had an older type alternator with field windings, and there was no current going through them, then you'd get little or nothing out of the alternator.

    I dunno if this bike has permanent lights on. If not, did you see a difference in voltage between lights on and lights off? You might get a bit less voltage with the lights on but it shouldn't really drop below 14V

    Still though, it would be interesting to know where the 'mystery' wires went - I know they went to the old R/R at one end :) I meant where do the other ends go! It looks like you're in the clear, but it'd be interesting to know.


    The lights are always on. I forgot to mention that the headlight doesnt flicker or brighten when I rev now with the new rr:)
    Yeah the problem was the old rr was working up to say 5500 rpm but over that it didnt charge the bat. So when I arrived into work after doing mostly 6000 rpm that bat was dying.

    LOL:pac: The ''mystery wires'' I havent a clue. one is red/white & the other is green. At this stage if the bike is working and I can start using it again the wires can be going to another dimension for all I care:)

    P.s, Im 99% sure someone is going to tell me that the ''mystery wires'' are highly important and my bike is at risk of blowing up if not reconnected:p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,907 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    ninja900 wrote: »
    Still though, it would be interesting to know where the 'mystery' wires went - I know they went to the old R/R at one end :) I meant where do the other ends go! It looks like you're in the clear, but it'd be interesting to know.

    They aren't mystery wires, the Red/Wh and Green in the bottom of the stock plug are the outputs to Battery from the old Alternator, via the Fuse/starter relay
    Yellow in to the Reg/Rec and Red/Green out.

    By fitting new wiring you will also avoid a problem with older electrics which is high resistance in the connections.
    Modern plugs are much better sealed and resistant to water ingress.
    Plus the new Mosfet Reg/recs are much better then the SH type.


Advertisement