Rep Of Ireland V Spain (12/6/2013 - 1am)

Rekop dog

Performance of the night has to go to Andersonisgod. Must have got about 50 replies to his blatant attempts which by any standards is a solid effort.

Andersonisgod

Rekop dog wrote: »

Performance of the night has to go to Andersonisgod. Must have got about 50 replies to his blatant attempts which by any standards is a solid effort.

Personally I would have gone for Busquets or Iniesta (though honourable mention to Juan Mata who was excellent when he came on) but each to their own.

LuckyLloyd

Rekop dog wrote: »

Performance of the night has to go to Andersonisgod. Must have got about 50 replies to his blatant attempts which by any standards is a solid effort.

To be honest his trolling is of the long ball hit and hope variety - though it gets the results. Quite ironic in its own way.

Andersonisgod

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

To be honest his trolling is of the long ball hit and hope variety - though it gets the results. Quite ironic in its own way.

Anyone who thinks that hoofing the ball to a limited target man while having 10 players behind the ball is the wrong kind of football is now a troll? Honestly it's this kind of enabling that contributes to the attitude to player development in Ireland. I'm seeing this morning in the media and elsewhere people call the Irish performance last night "brave" and I don't agree at all, infant I think it was the compete opposite. Brave would be to get on the ball even when you are under pressure, brave is not turning your back on the ball and letting the centre back launch it up in the air. Brave is believing in the technical ability of yourself and your teammates, brave is not kicking it into the corner and hoping Sammon scares the Spanish into conceding a throw in. Brave is having the conviction to play the right way, brave is not having 4.2% controlled possession. Its the people who call performances like last night "brave" that are partly the reason why Ireland will always struggle to find their own Xavi or Iniesta.

If believing that Spain's football is the right way to play, if believing that Spain are the brave side for playing with conviction, makes me a troll then I don't care, I'm a troll, or I'm someone who thinks 4.2% controlled possession is not something to celebrate and hail as "brave"

Dempsey

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Anyone who thinks that hoofing the ball to a limited target man while having 10 players behind the ball is the wrong kind of football is now a troll? Honestly it's this kind of enabling that contributes to the attitude to player development in Ireland. I'm seeing this morning in the media and elsewhere people call the Irish performance last night "brave" and I don't agree at all, infant I think it was the compete opposite. Brave would be to get on the ball even when you are under pressure, brave is not turning your back on the ball and letting the centre back launch it up in the air. Brave is believing in the technical ability of yourself and your teammates, brave is not kicking it into the corner and hoping Sammon scares the Spanish into conceding a throw in. Brave is having the conviction to play the right way, brave is not having 4.2% controlled possession. Its the people who call performances like last night "brave" that are partly the reason why Ireland will always struggle to find their own Xavi or Iniesta.

If believing that Spain's football is the right way to play, if believing that Spain are the brave side for playing with conviction, makes me a troll then I don't care, I'm a troll, or I'm someone who thinks 4.2% controlled possession is not something to celebrate and hail as "brave"

Irish players trying to play ball around their own backline would suit Spain. They like to press high up the field as possible and score plenty of goals because they force mediocre players to make mistakes on the ball.

Spain's football is only one way to play football, it is not the end all and be all of football.

All that possession and they could only score 2 goals? It doesnt look good for Spain either.

Backstreet Moyes

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Anyone who thinks that hoofing the ball to a limited target man while having 10 players behind the ball is the wrong kind of football is now a troll? Honestly it's this kind of enabling that contributes to the attitude to player development in Ireland. I'm seeing this morning in the media and elsewhere people call the Irish performance last night "brave" and I don't agree at all, infant I think it was the compete opposite. Brave would be to get on the ball even when you are under pressure, brave is not turning your back on the ball and letting the centre back launch it up in the air. Brave is believing in the technical ability of yourself and your teammates, brave is not kicking it into the corner and hoping Sammon scares the Spanish into conceding a throw in. Brave is having the conviction to play the right way, brave is not having 4.2% controlled possession. Its the people who call performances like last night "brave" that are partly the reason why Ireland will always struggle to find their own Xavi or Iniesta.

If believing that Spain's football is the right way to play, if believing that Spain are the brave side for playing with conviction, makes me a troll then I don't care, I'm a troll, or I'm someone who thinks 4.2% controlled possession is not something to celebrate and hail as "brave"

Can i ask you an honest question. As a Chelsea fan when they won the Champions League were you preaching about how it was injustice to football. I can only presume that you were seems they played horrible football and got so much luck. I have no interest looking at your posts back then but surely you were upset as a football purist that Chelsea won the Champions League that year.

I have never seen such a glory hunter on a football forum. Can i ask you when you started following Barcelona and cheering on Spain against Ireland. With all your posts about the history of Barcelona you must have been born their, been supporting them for years or spent a time in a cult brainwashed about La Masia anything else would be kinda sad the way you talk about them. Will you be jumping to Bayern soon now Pep is their and they have pulled a good bit clear of everyone in the world.

Also their is no right way to play football. If Ireland went out and passed around it would play into Spain's hands. I remember you having a big rant when Milan beat Barca this season. Defending and setting up tactics is what makes the game great. If everybody played the same and the best team always won it would make football rather boring.

Andersonisgod

Dempsey wrote: »

Irish players trying to play ball around their own backline would suit Spain. They like to press high up the field as possible and score plenty of goals because they force mediocre players to make mistakes on the ball.

Spain's football is only one way to play football, it is not the end all and be all of football.

All that possession and they could only score 2 goals? It doesnt look good for Spain either.

Like I said before, collectively the Irish team probably earns more than a small side in La Liga earns collectively. Surely if we accept that us the case I don't understand why we can't expect them to string a few passes together. Over 400 passes in one half? No but definitely for any professional team you'd expect more than 49 in a half, that's an embarrassment.

Its not the only way but I absolutely believe that it is the right way.

They aren't known for scoring 4,5 or 6 goals in a game. Sometimes they do but more often than not they don't, they control games with their possession and win through moments of brilliance.

They played Haiti a few nights ago and won that 2-1, Haiti gave them a better game than Ireland.

Amirani

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Anyone who thinks that hoofing the ball to a limited target man while having 10 players behind the ball is the wrong kind of football is now a troll? Honestly it's this kind of enabling that contributes to the attitude to player development in Ireland. I'm seeing this morning in the media and elsewhere people call the Irish performance last night "brave" and I don't agree at all, infant I think it was the compete opposite. Brave would be to get on the ball even when you are under pressure, brave is not turning your back on the ball and letting the centre back launch it up in the air. Brave is believing in the technical ability of yourself and your teammates, brave is not kicking it into the corner and hoping Sammon scares the Spanish into conceding a throw in. Brave is having the conviction to play the right way, brave is not having 4.2% controlled possession. Its the people who call performances like last night "brave" that are partly the reason why Ireland will always struggle to find their own Xavi or Iniesta.

If believing that Spain's football is the right way to play, if believing that Spain are the brave side for playing with conviction, makes me a troll then I don't care, I'm a troll, or I'm someone who thinks 4.2% controlled possession is not something to celebrate and hail as "brave"

I'm in agreement with you here. 'Brave' is a silly adjective to describe Ireland's tactical approach.

GavRedKing

Andersonisgod wrote: »

They played Haiti a few nights ago and won that 2-1, Haiti gave them a better game than Ireland.

Haiti hadnt got tonked by the Spanish side nearly 12 months ago in a competitive game, a game that lives long in the memories of the players and coaching staff and fans a like.

The Spanish team scored 50% less goals against a worse Irish side, conclusion the Spanish side is getting worse if they cant turn over an Irish C side and Haiti despite bossing possesion.

Amirani

Nuts102 wrote: »

I have never seen such a glory hunter on a football forum. Can i ask you when you started following Barcelona and cheering on Spain against Ireland. With all your posts about the history of Barcelona you must have been born their, been supporting them for years or spent a time in a cult brainwashed about La Masia anything else would be kinda sad the way you talk about them..

It is annoying alright, but you get some the exact same stuff from some fans of English and Scottish teams on here and nobody bats an eyelid. There's no difference between the two.

Andersonisgod

Nuts102 wrote: »

Can i ask you an honest question. As a Chelsea fan when they won the Champions League were you preaching about how it was injustice to football. I can only presume that you were seems they played horrible football and got so much luck. I have no interest looking at your posts back then but surely you were upset as a football purist that Chelsea won the Champions League that year.

I have never seen such a glory hunter on a football forum. Can i ask you when you started following Barcelona and cheering on Spain against Ireland. With all your posts about the history of Barcelona you must have been born their, been supporting them for years or spent a time in a cult brainwashed about La Masia anything else would be kinda sad the way you talk about them. Will you be jumping to Bayern soon now Pep is their and they have pulled a good bit clear of everyone in the world.

Also their is no right way to play football. If Ireland went out and passed around it would play into Spain's hands. I remember you having a big rant when Milan beat Barca this season. Defending and setting up tactics is what makes the game great. If everybody played the same and the best team always won it would make football rather boring.

No, for two reasons, one being that I've been a Chelsea fan since I was a kid and second being that I was desperate to see Drogba (my all time favourite player) win the Champions League, that he dragged us to that victory on his back made it all the sweeter. However like any football purist I wasn't very high on the style we won it in. However that victory led us to be able to sign technically gifted players like Hazard, Oscar, De Bruyne ect. so we have moved on from that kind of football. You'd struggle to find any given that I wasnt posting on the football forum then.

Tough to say, I'd say I started watching Spanish football regularly around the time Ronaldinho joined Barcelona (I am only 21 so I'd still have been pretty young then) and I instantly admired how Barcelona play, the ideals of the club and the more I've watched them, the more their game has developed, the more I've admired them and taken the effort to learn about the history of the club, the ideals of the club and the opinions of the fans (I post on a Barcelona forum). I'm not saying that I hate Ireland, I would just struggle to support a team that sets out from the start with no intention of playing football. I won't be jumping to Bayern though I rate Guardiola very highly. I also don't believe that they have pulled away, one season is all well and good, Barcelona will be back next season.

Like I said I wasn't expecting them to our pass Spain but there is a middle ground between Barcelona and the caveman football do often on display under Trapattoni and I believe that's what Ireland should have been aiming for. Thing is though, this Barcelona side wasn't always the best, they changed football, they changed how it's played and how it's viewed. Innovation should surely what teams stride towards, but sticking 10 men behind the ball and kicking it 60 yards towards a one dimensional target man is not innovation.

Andersonisgod

GavRedKing wrote: »

Haiti hadnt got tonked by the Spanish side nearly 12 months ago in a competitive game, a game that lives long in the memories of the players and coaching staff and fans a like.

The Spanish team scored 50% less goals against a worse Irish side, conclusion the Spanish side is getting worse if they cant turn over an Irish C side and Haiti despite bossing possesion.

Haha Gav that's an interesting theory, one which I may have to give a long, detailed counter argument to.

Johnny Utah

I don't understand all the hate for Anderson, he's just telling it like it is!

Did we actually have less than 5% possesion? If so, that's fcuking atrocous. The truth is we just don't play the game properly in Britain and Ireland; look at the fate of Scotland, Wales, and even England for proof. When we played England at Wembley, we kept hoofing the ball away, but the only difference between England and Spain is that England didn't know what to do with it. That tells you everything you need to know about the British game!


Plus, I wouldn't call that our 'C' team; Forde, Coleman, St Ledger, McCarthy, Robbie Keane would all start in the first XI.

Andersonisgod

Johnny Utah wrote: »

I don't understand all the hate for Anderson, he's just telling it like it is!

Did we actually have less than 5% possesion? If so, that's fcuking atrocous. The truth is we just don't play the game properly in Britain and Ireland; look at the fate of Scotland, Wales, and even England for proof. When we played England at Wembley, we kept hoofing the ball away, but the only difference between England and Spain is that England didn't know what to do with it. That tells you everything you need to know about the British game!


Plus, I wouldn't call that our 'C' team; Forde, Coleman, St Ledger, McCarthy, Robbie Keane would all start in the first XI.

Spot on, the contrast between the English game at Wembley and Spain last night is huge and almost an indictment of British and Irish football.

Sky Sports say Ireland's possession was 4.8% I think, I assume they mean controlled possession. Which even so is a crazy number, and something the FAI should have a long look at.

Soups123

Johnny Utah wrote: »

I don't understand all the hate for Anderson, he's just telling it like it is!

Did we actually have less than 5% possesion? If so, that's fcuking atrocous. The truth is we just don't play the game properly in Britain and Ireland; look at the fate of Scotland, Wales, and even England for proof. When we played England at Wembley, we kept hoofing the ball away, but the only difference between England and Spain is that England didn't know what to do with it. That tells you everything you need to know about the British game!


Plus, I wouldn't call that our 'C' team; Forde, Coleman, St Ledger, McCarthy, Robbie Keane would all start in the first XI.

Did you watch the game? I did and it certainly wasnt anywhere near 5% possession from what I say, we also gave a good account of ourselves for what was on the park and who we were up against. There is no shame in losing 2-0 to Spain with a far from first 11.

McCarthy & Coleman have really come of age the past 4 games as has Forde for that alone I am more than happy with the couple of months work.

We have crop of young players coming through and the next manager is going to have a very good base to start with

Sin City

Soups123 wrote: »

Did you watch the game? I did and it certainly wasnt anywhere near 5% possession from what I say, we also gave a good account of ourselves for what was on the park and who we were up against. There is no shame in losing 2-0 to Spain with a far from first 11.

McCarthy & Coleman have really come of age the past 4 games as has Forde for that alone I am more than happy with the couple of months work.

We have crop of young players coming through and the next manager is going to have a very good base to start with

Yeah, I saw Coleman giving Jordi Alves a torrid time
Even Sammon was actually not doing to badly (apart from missing that sitter)

Andersonisgod

Soups123 wrote: »

Did you watch the game? I did and it certainly wasnt anywhere near 5% possession from what I say, we also gave a good account of ourselves for what was on the park and who we were up against. There is no shame in losing 2-0 to Spain with a far from first 11.

McCarthy & Coleman have really come of age the past 4 games as has Forde for that alone I am more than happy with the couple of months work.

We have crop of young players coming through and the next manager is going to have a very good base to start with

I actually agree that there are some good Irish players available that have enough about them to play a passing game. What I disagree with is Trapattoni's awful approach to the Irish team.

Dempsey

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Like I said before, collectively the Irish team probably earns more than a small side in La Liga earns collectively. Surely if we accept that us the case I don't understand why we can't expect them to string a few passes together. Over 400 passes in one half? No but definitely for any professional team you'd expect more than 49 in a half, that's an embarrassment.

Its not the only way but I absolutely believe that it is the right way.

They aren't known for scoring 4,5 or 6 goals in a game. Sometimes they do but more often than not they don't, they control games with their possession and win through moments of brilliance.

They played Haiti a few nights ago and won that 2-1, Haiti gave them a better game than Ireland.

So? EPL clubs are paid massive money in a collective bargaining excercise by Sky/ESPN/BT. Clubs on average are spending 60-70% of their turnover on wages still.

TV rights are sold differently in Spain which screws the smaller clubs and I'd hazard a guess that the average spend of turnover on wages is lower.

So, in short, your rationalisation for Irish players doing better than a small La Liga club is highly flawed and stupid.

The focus of pass completion and possession stats is also flawed. They got all those passes because we allowed them to, mostly around their backline where they cant hurt anyone. Most of their shooting was from 25 yards and wayward. We dont have the players to shut them down like Bayern did to Barcelona (8 Barca players started before anyone asks) so the alternative is to sit in with 2 banks of 4 and hope to catch them on the break, which nearly worked as Sammon wasted a 1v1 with Valdes @ 0-0.

Good for Haiti, I heard Spain were much poorer against Haiti than against Ireland. Our players are limited and some of the stars suggested in the squad by this forum are overrated. e.g. McCarthy for a supposedly great passer kicked the ball into 50/50 situations when he wasnt kicking it straight back to the Spanish players. Sammon couldnt win a header. Coleman wandered out of position several times and was exploited. Every players limitation was there to see by everyone last night. The tactics you seem to be suggesting is something Steve Staunton would do and we'd all be kicking waterbottles up the touchline within 5 minutes.

Sin City

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I actually agree that there are some good Irish players available that have enough about them to play a passing game. What I disagree with is Trapattoni's awful approach to the Irish team.

Last night Coleman and Kelly (McClean when he came on) tried to run at players, everyone else tried to hoof it up to Sammon. Even McCarthy had to hoof it a few times and we always lost possession over it

Soups123

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I actually agree that there are some good Irish players available that have enough about them to play a passing game. What I disagree with is Trapattoni's awful approach to the Irish team.

In fairness when he came in we knew what we were going to get and most people were more than happy, myself included. He only has a handful of games left and if he manages to pull a WC out of the bag fair play to him.

I just worry about what comes after, FAI isnt flush with cash so its going to be low end.

On the player front we have some really good players who can play a bit but to do it at international level you need 8/9 players who can do it at a really high level, I dont think we have that.

Soups123

Sin City wrote: »

Last night Coleman and Kelly (McClean when he came on) tried to run at players, everyone else tried to hoof it up to Sammon. Even McCarthy had to hoof it a few times and we always lost possession over it

He did but he wasnt the problem, sometimes the guy hoofing it looks like the culprit. A few times he was looking...looking.....looking and noone showed and ended up with no option.

He did try to play it most of the time and his closing down and harressing was excellent.

homerjay2005

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Brave is having the conviction to play the right way, brave is not having 4.2% controlled possession.

I don't care, I'm a troll, or I'm someone who thinks 4.2% controlled possession is not something to celebrate and hail as "brave"

where you getting that possession "stat" from? none of the main sites are reporting that, at all. even in the game that Spain beat us 4-0, they had about 75% of the possession.

Sin City

Soups123 wrote: »

He did but he wasnt the problem, sometimes the guy hoofing it looks like the culprit. A few times he was looking...looking.....looking and noone showed and ended up with no option.

He did try to play it most of the time and his closing down and harressing was excellent.

Yeah I saw that , would have been interesting alright if we had a full team out there, or even just McGeady Hoolihan and Long, we may have given them a better game

GLaDOS

Sky Sports score centre has possession down as 79% - 21%.

Soups123

Sin City wrote: »

Yeah I saw that , would have been interesting alright if we had a full team out there, or even just McGeady Hoolihan and Long, we may have given them a better game

Long would have offered a lot more than Sammon, for a big lad he doesnt impose himself. I think he will disapear over the next 6 months from the squad.

Mocha Joe

He just invented something called controlled possession and threw his own guess on it.

Andersonisgod

Mocha Joe wrote: »

He just invented something called controlled possession and threw his own guess on it.

Last night on the Sky Sports score centre, using a pie chart, Sky had it down as 4.8%, somebody else on the thread suggested that they meant controlled possession which would make sense. If Sky have revised their numbers, there's nothing I can do about that. 79% to 21% is not something for Ireland to write home about.

Blatter

Andersonisgod wrote: »

If believing that Spain's football is the right way to play, if believing that Spain are the brave side for playing with conviction, makes me a troll then I don't care, I'm a troll, or I'm someone who thinks 4.2% controlled possession is not something to celebrate and hail as "brave"

I don't think people think you're a troll due to the underlying point of your posts alone, you are indeed entitled to your opinion. It's the high frequency of said posts combined with an incredible amount of hyperbole and glorification that makes people wary.

You love Barcelona & Spain and you couldn't be more of a fan of the way they play the game. We get it, we all got that message a long time ago. Is it really necessary to keep repeating it in every Barca/Spain related thread?

In fairness you post details of players attributes and the pattern of matches etc. which is fine, it's all the other stuff that accompanies those posts that grates people. Once or twice, grand, we'll get over it. But every time? Really?

Andersonisgod

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Last night on the Sky Sports score centre, using a pie chart, Sky had it down as 4.8%, somebody else on the thread suggested that they meant controlled possession which would make sense. If Sky have revised their numbers, there's nothing I can do about that. 79% to 21% is not something for Ireland to write home about.

What more do you expect when you see the respective sides that were put out ? Thought we played a good controlled game and limited Spain to a lot of possesion but not many chances. With a bit of luck we would have got that equaliser. With the lads we had out last night we put up a good performance and going into the Sweden game we should have good confidence that we can beat them. All round decent few weeks for the team.

Demosthenese

Controlled possession or not, where you think 90% of that takes place? In your own half most likely. In a game like Ireland v Spain and to be fair, Spain v most teams it is not a true reflection in a game at times. Spain will bully you in possession and thats football at the moment. Is it the be all and end all of soccer? Well, ask the german teams how they feel about it this season when they wallopped the spanish teams.

Only watched the game this morning, but was pleasantly pleased considering we played only a handful of our better players and had to endure people like McShane and Kelly in fullback positions. Modern day footballers are comfortable in possession in these areas, Coleman is a good example of this ans it makes life a little easier to keep the ball. That said, James MCCarthy is also a fine footballer and even he hoofed the ball into silly positions at times too.

O Dea could have prevented the 1st goal and Carzorla should have been chopped down in the build up to the second. Other than that we are what we are.

Only thing that bothers me in a game like this is Robbie Keane, not him as a player but his selection as a striker that drops deep!!! Why play him in a role that is not suited to him at all and ends up with him running about like a thick for 60 mins without a sniff at goal. Surely we could use 2 defencive mids with McCarthy playing in behind the frontman instead and then bring on Robbie for the last 30 mins when they tire a little.

[-0-]

Decent effort for the king of the hoofers. The lads should be proud. Such a shame the goal was offside but we are Ireland and it has always been heart breaking following us.

yohan the great

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Like I said before, collectively the Irish team probably earns more than a small side in La Liga earns collectively. Surely if we accept that us the case I don't understand why we can't expect them to string a few passes together. Over 400 passes in one half? No but definitely for any professional team you'd expect more than 49 in a half, that's an embarrassment.

Its not the only way but I absolutely believe that it is the right way.

They aren't known for scoring 4,5 or 6 goals in a game. Sometimes they do but more often than not they don't, they control games with their possession and win through moments of brilliance.

They played Haiti a few nights ago and won that 2-1, Haiti gave them a better game than Ireland.

That's like saying Ireland are as good as Germany because they both beat the Faroe islands 3 nil. And these teams that try to pass the ball against Barca nearly always get hammered. Even real Madrid play a direct style against them

Rhys Essien

Andersonisgod wrote: »

But isn't that an issue then? These Irish players go to England, and I can understand why they do it, afterall they speak the same language, it's close to home, the culture is pretty similar, they probably grew up watching English football and there's more money in England than Spain. Maybe if some Irish players tried harder to attract interest from Spanish teams, or other nations, maybe we would have more technically well rounded players?

Obviously that isn't the only issue but I think if Irish players went somewhere else other than England while they were young they might develop into better international footballers.

Don't forget there are two Irish kids playing in the Barcelona and Real Madrid Acadamies at the moment,so roll on 10 years time.:D

Kenjataimu

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Don't forget there are two Irish kids playing in the Barcelona and Real Madrid Acadamies at the moment,so roll on 10 years time.:D

and they'll probably declare for Spain!

counterlock

Was the picture of him holding the flag posted yet?

Talks about the beautiful game.....Didier Drogba is his favourite player

Andersonisgod

counterlock wrote: »

Was the picture of him holding the flag posted yet?

Talks about the beautiful game.....Didier Drogba is his favourite player

Yes Didier Drogba. A sublime player, for me the finest lone striker of his generation. Sure he had pace and power but technically he was superb. He had everything in his game, a monstrous player who could win a game in so many ways. Chelsea's main man during the most successful period of the club. A legend.

MaroonAndGreen

Think it was a fairly respectable result for Ireland.

Hate people that predict we will be hammered and then act shocked and appaled when it happens!

Although that wasnt the case this time :P