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Reincarnation.

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  • 09-06-2013 8:41am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 4,071 ✭✭✭


    Although reincarnation is part of the believe system of many millions of people, in particular Buddhists and Hindus. It is also held by many esoteric Christians and adherents of Sufism i.e. the esoteric side of the Muslim religion. The possibility that we experience more than one life has hardly ever been considered by modern day Western religion.

    Many Radio and TV presenters of current affairs and chat show programmes as well as the print media have now helped to create an environment where we can now express our views on subjects which heretofore were utterly taboo.

    The purpose or non purpose of existence has engaged the minds of many for centuries and it is reasonable enough to assume that this question is likely to be the most absorbing question that human kind will pose itself for quite a long time to come. It is hard to understand why a genuine dialogue on reincarnation has never taken place despite the fact that the concept is now being constantly highlighted in books and films.

    It is not generally known that belief in reincarnation existed in the Catholic Church up until the year 553, the year of the Second Council of Constantinople or Fifth Ecumenical Council. This Council was convened at a time when a bitter conflict had existed between the Emperor Justinian and Pope Vigilius who was under much political pressure at the time. Some modern Catholic scholars question whether or not the anathema’s are binding such as were the circumstances in existence at the time of its convocation.

    The Church Fathers decided that the belief in reincarnation gave people too much time in which to improve and to speed up things and force them to become perfect during the course of one life they abolished reincarnation and invoked such terrifying things that by the middle ages people believed in devils, Hell and eternal damnation. Not only did people not improve they retrogressed into fear and ignorance. A revived belief in reincarnation would dispel this fear and also bring some sense as to the reason why some people are born with tremendous birth defects, why some people live very difficult and tragic lives. It is only when one considers that a soul undergoes many experiences during the course of many life times it becomes possible to make any sense out of pain and suffering, joy and happiness, Karma and Dharma. We have endowed ourselves with the gifts and talents of our birth and it is according to the way we use our gifts that we set the conditions for our future.

    It is not possible to hold to the theory of reincarnation unless you belief in some sort of Divine Power otherwise the journey or the goal of achieving perfection would me meaningless. However let me say that I believe in reincarnation even though it is an impossibility as God neither needs the world or time and so neither were ever created.

    We are living in a dream world and our only reason for being here is to wake up to the fact that we are not here and then we will once again experience Pure Love, Joy and Happiness as we were never separated from the Love of God, never kicked out of Paradise and we were never burdened with mans invention of Original sin.

    It is interesting to note that of all the areas in which Ireland has made a contribution to the world at large it could be said that it is in the field of literature that we have made our most outstanding contribution. Writers such as George Bernard Shaw, W.B.Yeats, A. E. Russell, James Stephens and James Joyce frequently dwelt on the theme of reincarnation in their work.

    Now at a time when some people are complaining about a decline in religious interest and on the other hand others fear the rise and rise of fundamentalist religion is it time we turned our attention to spirituality?

    The Forum on Spirituality has been closed for years. Please bring it back, there are lots of Spiritual people in Ireland and elsewhere.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,071 ✭✭✭Xenophile


    MY LAW – TIEME RANAPIRI

    The sun may be coloured, yet ever the sun
    Will sweep on its course till the Cycle is run.
    And when into chaos the system is hurled
    Again shall the Builder reshape a new world.
    Your path may be clouded, uncertain in your goal:
    Move on – for your orbit is fixed to your soul.
    And though it may lead into darkness of night
    The torch of the Builder shall give it new light.
    You were. You will be! Know this while you are:
    Your spirit has travelled both long and afar.
    It came from the Source, to the Source it returns-
    The Spark which was lighted eternally burns.
    It slept in a jewel. It leapt in a wave.
    It roamed in the forest. It rose from the grave.
    It took on strange garbs for long eons of years
    And now in the soul of yourself It appears.
    From body to body your spirit speeds on
    It seeks a new form when the old one has gone
    And the form that it finds is the fabric you wrought
    On the loom of the Mind from the fibre of Thought.
    As dew is drawn upwards, in rain to descend
    Your thoughts drift away and in Destiny blend.
    You cannot escape them, for petty or great,
    Or evil or noble, they fashion your Fate.
    Somewhere on some planet, sometime and somehow
    You will reflect your thoughts of your Now.
    My Law is unerring, no blood can atone-
    The structure you built you will live in – alone.
    Your lives with your longings will ever keep pace
    And all that you ask for, and all you desire
    Must come at your bidding, as flame out of fire.
    Once list’ to that Voice and all tumult is done-
    Your life is the life of the Infinite One.
    In the hurrying race you are conscious of pause
    With love for the purpose, and love for the Cause.
    You are your own Devil, you are your own God
    You fashioned the paths your footsteps have trod.
    And no one can save you from Error or Sin
    Until you have hark’d to the Spirit within.
    Anon.

    The Forum on Spirituality has been closed for years. Please bring it back, there are lots of Spiritual people in Ireland and elsewhere.



  • Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭angelman121


    One at a time

    One at a time, we stand in line
    One at a time we are born
    One at a time, we learn, we grow
    One at a time we are enlightened, we know
    One at a time we are destined to go
    One at a time our heart beats, our breaths inhaled
    Our eyes meet, we grieve, we feel pain
    One at a time we heal or we do it all over again



    Just keep your attention turned to your Spirituality, leave "us" and "our" in the dreamworld.

    Happy Every Day
    p


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,071 ✭✭✭Xenophile


    One at a time we heal or we do it all over again

    The last line is the most important..................If were are to avoid continuous suffering at some stage or another we must get off the "Wheel Of History."

    The Forum on Spirituality has been closed for years. Please bring it back, there are lots of Spiritual people in Ireland and elsewhere.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭EdenHazard


    I believe we exist permantly as a higher being who watches different scenarios play out at the one time. Since time does not exist where this higher being exists, you could be a serf in the Roman Empire or just some lad living in Ireland in 2013 at the same time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 734 ✭✭✭Tom_Cruise


    I believe that when we die we get to ask a man/woman a few questions about the universe - usually you are allowed an hour.

    I'm not exactly sure what happens after this, sorry.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,071 ✭✭✭Xenophile


    My Law-Tieme Ranapiri



    The sun may be clouded, yet ever the sun

    will sweep on its course till the cycle is run

    and when into chaos the system is hurled.

    Again shall the builder reshape a new world



    Your path maybe clouded,uncertain your goal,

    Move on for your orbit is fixed to your soul.

    And though it may lead into darkness of night

    the torch of the builder shall give it new light.



    You were, you will be-Know this while you are

    Your spirit has travelled both long and afar

    It came from the source to the source it returns

    The spark which was lighted eternally burns.



    It slept in a jewel, It lept in a wave

    It roamed in the forest, it rose from the grave,

    It took on strange garbs for long aeons of years

    And now in the soul of yourself it appears.



    From body to body your spirit speeds on,

    it seeks a new form when the old one has gone

    and the form that it finds is the fabric you wrought

    on the loom of the mind from the fibre of thought



    As dew is drawn upwards, in rain to descend

    your thoughts drift away and in destiny blend.

    You cannot escape them, for petty or great,

    or evil or noble they fashion your fate.



    Some where on some planet sometime and some how

    your life will reflect your thoughts of your now.

    My law is unerring, no blood can atone,

    the structure you built you will live in alone



    From cycle to cycle through time and through space

    your lives with your longings will ever keep pace

    And all that you ask for and all you desire

    must come at your bidding as flame out of fire.



    Once list' to that voice and all tumult is done-

    your life is the life of the infinite one

    In the hurrying race you are concious of pause

    with love for the purpose and love for the cause.



    You are your own devil you are your own god

    You fashioned the paths your footsteps have trod.

    And no one can save you from error or sin

    until you have harkened to the spirit within.



    Attributed to a Maori


    Correcting typo error on earlier post. Like all good poetry it is best appreciated when read aloud.

    The Forum on Spirituality has been closed for years. Please bring it back, there are lots of Spiritual people in Ireland and elsewhere.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,663 ✭✭✭Cork24


    roman catholic church in the early 17 Century 18 Century saw Reincarnation

    But change their views later. Banning it from the Catholic Church


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,562 ✭✭✭eyescreamcone


    Reincarnation - really???
    Just another unproven belief.

    Were we dinosaurs once?? No is the answer I'm looking for.

    I do believe that Glenn Hoddle shouldn't have been sacked as England manager for beliving in it - because it's as (un)believable as any xtian, scientology, pagan etc beliefs out there.
    All wrong


    (maybe one is right - but we have no proof that is so...yet)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭Geomy


    Reincarnation - really???
    Just another unproven belief.

    Were we dinosaurs once?? No is the answer I'm looking for.

    I do believe that Glenn Hoddle shouldn't have been sacked as England manager for beliving in it - because it's as (un)believable as any xtian, scientology, pagan etc beliefs out there.
    All wrong


    (maybe one is right - but we have no proof that is so...yet)

    Nice try, maybe in the A+A threads you will get more identification :-)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 329 ✭✭Corkgirl210


    Reincarnation - really???
    Just another unproven belief.



    have you ever read any books relating to re-incarnation? I have read quite a few and some incarnations have been proven.. people have given pictures, birth details, family histories from their memories and went on quests to prove it.. and guess what.. they found lots and lots of documented evidence!!

    or maybe they have a consciousness that allows them to remember both lives in the same lifetime... afterall there is no linear time when we pass.... parallel life??

    either way.. makes great reading.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,562 ✭✭✭eyescreamcone


    Reincarnation - really???
    Just another unproven belief.



    have you ever read any books relating to re-incarnation? I have read quite a few and some incarnations have been proven.. people have given pictures, birth details, family histories from their memories and went on quests to prove it.. and guess what.. they found lots and lots of documented evidence!!

    or maybe they have a consciousness that allows them to remember both lives in the same lifetime... afterall there is no linear time when we pass.... parallel life??

    either way.. makes great reading.


    I don't believe you.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,562 ✭✭✭eyescreamcone


    Who are we supposed to be reincarnations of?

    Remember there are more people alive today than at any time previous.

    Reincarnation - like all the other religious mumbo jumbo - just made up by humans!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭padma


    Who are we supposed to be reincarnations of?

    Remember there are more people alive today than at any time previous.

    Reincarnation - like all the other religious mumbo jumbo - just made up by humans!

    think logically, this is one planet out of millions

    This is a great book about reincarnation, have a read of it, it is certainly an amazing study.

    http://www.amazon.com/Journey-Souls-Studies-Between-Lives/dp/1567184855


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,562 ✭✭✭eyescreamcone


    padma wrote: »
    think logically, this is one planet out of millions

    This is a great book about reincarnation, have a read of it, it is certainly an amazing study.

    http://www.amazon.com/Journey-Souls-Studies-Between-Lives/dp/1567184855

    So we are reincarnations of beings from other planets now?
    This is getting good now!

    And you're asking me to think logically :)

    Would any of your facts hold up in a scientific study??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭padma


    Perfectly logical explanation I've no need to satisfy your lack of belief in the subject, however I suggest for u to have a read of the above book.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,700 ✭✭✭ThirdMan


    I do believe that Glenn Hoddle shouldn't have been sacked as England manager for beliving in it

    Hoddle wasn't sacked for believing in reincarnation per se.

    He said that people born with disabilities are "reaping what they have sown" in a former life. That's a disgraceful comment and he deserved to lose his job.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,562 ✭✭✭eyescreamcone


    ThirdMan wrote: »
    Hoddle wasn't sacked for believing in reincarnation per se.

    He said that people born with disabilities are "reaping what they have sown" in a former life. That's a disgraceful comment and he deserved to lose his job.

    Why is it disgraceful if he actually believed what he said is true??

    What he said is more than likely not true as there is no real evidence of reincarnation, or any other religious mumbo jumbo nonsense being true.

    But if we allow people to say that when you die, you go to heaven or hell - then it's equally plausible to allow someone say that disabled people are reaping what they have sown in another life.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,700 ✭✭✭ThirdMan


    Why is it disgraceful if he actually believed what he said is true??

    What he said is more than likely not true as there is no real evidence of reincarnation, or any other religious mumbo jumbo nonsense being true.

    But if we allow people to say that when you die, you go to heaven or hell - then it's equally plausible to allow someone say that disabled people are reaping what they have sown in another life.

    Hoddle's comments were irresponsible and damaging at a time (post Euro '96) when England least needed it. On a policy level his position became untenable, and that's why he got sacked. Personally, I think his comments were disgraceful because of the way in which they singled out an already vulnerable minority group.

    But I don't think you're interested in talking about Glenn Hoddle. You seem to be asking why some beliefs are commonly accepted and normalised while others are condemned and pushed to the fringe?

    I don't know why that is, but I guess I'm guilty of it. I don't believe in god, reincarnation or the afterlife. I regularly debate with people about those issues, yet in the end I accept people's right to believe what they want. But comments like Hoddle's I'll always have a problem with, even though they're based on an equally bogus belief system.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,562 ✭✭✭eyescreamcone


    ThirdMan wrote: »
    Hoddle's comments were irresponsible and damaging at a time (post Euro '96) when England least needed it. On a policy level his position became untenable, and that's why he got sacked. Personally, I think his comments were disgraceful because of the way in which they singled out an already vulnerable minority group.

    But I don't think you're interested in talking about Glenn Hoddle. You seem to be asking why some beliefs are commonly accepted and normalised while others are condemned and pushed to the fringe?

    I don't know why that is, but I guess I'm guilty of it. I don't believe in god, reincarnation or the afterlife. I regularly debate with people about those issues, yet in the end I accept people's right to believe what they want. But comments like Hoddle's I'll always have a problem with, even though they're based on an equally bogus belief system.



    All fairytales are equal.
    Whether it is the Catholics homophobic preachings or Mr. Hoddle's nonsense.

    I as an atheist try to treat all supernatural belief systems equally - with the scorn and ridicule that they all deserve.

    Scientology, Christianity, and Hinduism are all equally invalid and should be treated the same.

    Mr. Hoddle should have been sacked only if a muslim or christian who believed in his religion's anti-gay or anti-woman policies, was treated the same.





    In my opinion, Mr. Hoddle was sacked because England's results (1998/99)were not so good and it was used as an excuse to get rid of him.
    If he had won the 1998 World Cup in France he could have said anything he liked and got away with it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,700 ✭✭✭ThirdMan


    Yeah, I've also read The God Delusion, God is not Great and The End of Faith.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,291 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    I like carnations.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 33 Awakening2014


    So we are reincarnations of beings from other planets now?
    This is getting good now!

    And you're asking me to think logically :)

    Would any of your facts hold up in a scientific study??

    Obviously at the beginning there were no humans on this planet, or animals.

    So where did all the souls come from in the first place?
    Our human logic cannot be used to rationalize things like reincarnation ect ect.

    Us humans think we understand everything. In 700 AD people understood the world was flat. If you said the world was round it would appear ridiculous


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,698 ✭✭✭Gumbi


    Obviously at the beginning there were no humans on this planet, or animals.

    So where did all the souls come from in the first place?
    Our human logic cannot be used to rationalize things like reincarnation ect ect.

    Us humans think we understand everything. In 700 AD people understood the world was flat. If you said the world was round it would appear ridiculous

    Erm, what are souls? And can you demonstrate their existence?

    By the way, it's a myth that people believed the earth was flat in the past.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,562 ✭✭✭eyescreamcone


    Obviously at the beginning there were no humans on this planet, or animals.

    So where did all the souls come from in the first place?
    Our human logic cannot be used to rationalize things like reincarnation ect ect.

    Us humans think we understand everything. In 700 AD people understood the world was flat. If you said the world was round it would appear ridiculous

    There are no souls knocking around.

    Never was.

    Never will be.


  • Subscribers Posts: 19,425 ✭✭✭✭Oryx


    There are no souls knocking around.

    Never was.

    Never will be.
    Go take your ridicule somewhere else. Youre thread spoiling in a forum where people wish to discuss things you don't believe in. Have respect and let them. Do not post in this thread again.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭fro9etb8j5qsl2


    Found this today and thought it was a nice non-denominational view of reincarnation :)

    http://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html

    The Egg
    By: Andy Weir

    You were on your way home when you died.
    It was a car accident. Nothing particularly remarkable, but fatal nonetheless. You left behind a wife and two children. It was a painless death. The EMTs tried their best to save you, but to no avail. Your body was so utterly shattered you were better off, trust me.
    And that’s when you met me.
    “What… what happened?” You asked. “Where am I?”
    “You died,” I said, matter-of-factly. No point in mincing words.
    “There was a… a truck and it was skidding…”
    “Yup,” I said.
    “I… I died?”
    “Yup. But don’t feel bad about it. Everyone dies,” I said.
    You looked around. There was nothingness. Just you and me. “What is this place?” You asked. “Is this the afterlife?”
    “More or less,” I said.
    “Are you god?” You asked.
    “Yup,” I replied. “I’m God.”
    “My kids… my wife,” you said.
    “What about them?”
    “Will they be all right?”
    “That’s what I like to see,” I said. “You just died and your main concern is for your family. That’s good stuff right there.”

    You looked at me with fascination. To you, I didn’t look like God. I just looked like some man. Or possibly a woman. Some vague authority figure, maybe. More of a grammar school teacher than the almighty.
    “Don’t worry,” I said. “They’ll be fine. Your kids will remember you as perfect in every way. They didn’t have time to grow contempt for you. Your wife will cry on the outside, but will be secretly relieved. To be fair, your marriage was falling apart. If it’s any consolation, she’ll feel very guilty for feeling relieved.”
    “Oh,” you said. “So what happens now? Do I go to heaven or hell or something?”
    “Neither,” I said. “You’ll be reincarnated.”
    “Ah,” you said. “So the Hindus were right,”
    “All religions are right in their own way,” I said. “Walk with me.”
    You followed along as we strode through the void. “Where are we going?”
    “Nowhere in particular,” I said. “It’s just nice to walk while we talk.”
    “So what’s the point, then?” You asked. “When I get reborn, I’ll just be a blank slate, right? A baby. So all my experiences and everything I did in this life won’t matter.”
    “Not so!” I said. “You have within you all the knowledge and experiences of all your past lives. You just don’t remember them right now.”

    I stopped walking and took you by the shoulders. “Your soul is more magnificent, beautiful, and gigantic than you can possibly imagine. A human mind can only contain a tiny fraction of what you are. It’s like sticking your finger in a glass of water to see if it’s hot or cold. You put a tiny part of yourself into the vessel, and when you bring it back out, you’ve gained all the experiences it had.
    “You’ve been in a human for the last 48 years, so you haven’t stretched out yet and felt the rest of your immense consciousness. If we hung out here for long enough, you’d start remembering everything. But there’s no point to doing that between each life.”
    “How many times have I been reincarnated, then?”
    “Oh lots. Lots and lots. An in to lots of different lives.” I said. “This time around, you’ll be a Chinese peasant girl in 540 AD.”
    “Wait, what?” You stammered. “You’re sending me back in time?”
    “Well, I guess technically. Time, as you know it, only exists in your universe. Things are different where I come from.”
    “Where you come from?” You said.
    “Oh sure,” I explained “I come from somewhere. Somewhere else. And there are others like me. I know you’ll want to know what it’s like there, but honestly you wouldn’t understand.”
    “Oh,” you said, a little let down. “But wait. If I get reincarnated to other places in time, I could have interacted with myself at some point.”
    “Sure. Happens all the time. And with both lives only aware of their own lifespan you don’t even know it’s happening.”
    “So what’s the point of it all?”
    “Seriously?” I asked. “Seriously? You’re asking me for the meaning of life? Isn’t that a little stereotypical?”
    “Well it’s a reasonable question,” you persisted.
    I looked you in the eye. “The meaning of life, the reason I made this whole universe, is for you to mature.”
    “You mean mankind? You want us to mature?”
    “No, just you. I made this whole universe for you. With each new life you grow and mature and become a larger and greater intellect.”
    “Just me? What about everyone else?”
    “There is no one else,” I said. “In this universe, there’s just you and me.”
    You stared blankly at me. “But all the people on earth…”
    “All you. Different incarnations of you.”
    “Wait. I’m everyone!?”
    “Now you’re getting it,” I said, with a congratulatory slap on the back.
    “I’m every human being who ever lived?”
    “Or who will ever live, yes.”
    “I’m Abraham Lincoln?”
    “And you’re John Wilkes Booth, too,” I added.
    “I’m Hitler?” You said, appalled.
    “And you’re the millions he killed.”
    “I’m Jesus?”
    “And you’re everyone who followed him.”
    You fell silent.

    “Every time you victimized someone,” I said, “you were victimizing yourself. Every act of kindness you’ve done, you’ve done to yourself. Every happy and sad moment ever experienced by any human was, or will be, experienced by you.”
    You thought for a long time.
    “Why?” You asked me. “Why do all this?”
    “Because someday, you will become like me. Because that’s what you are. You’re one of my kind. You’re my child.”
    “Whoa,” you said, incredulous. “You mean I’m a god?”
    “No. Not yet. You’re a fetus. You’re still growing. Once you’ve lived every human life throughout all time, you will have grown enough to be born.”
    “So the whole universe,” you said, “it’s just…”
    “An egg.” I answered. “Now it’s time for you to move on to your next life.”
    And I sent you on your way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,353 ✭✭✭Galway K9


    This what happens when teachings are over 2000 years old, they get muddled, misinterpreted, changed etc.

    Reincarnation, from my interpretation of what was meant, a rebirth not in the physical sense, but spiritually. It is the awakening from the illusion, enlightenment, I believe all teachers were pointing at this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,071 ✭✭✭Xenophile


    Galway K9 wrote: »
    Reincarnation, from my interpretation of what was meant, a rebirth not in the physical sense, but spiritually. It is the awakening from the illusion, enlightenment, I believe all teachers were pointing at this.

    In this illusory world, and we think we are here, yes we are here in the illusion to wake to the fact neither time or space exists. This realisation is called enlightenment and signals the end of our ego and suffering by allowing ourselves to be absorbed into Oneness which means that we are no longer subject to the laws of duality. Only Goodness, Peace, Love and Joy etc. are real at this stage.

    The Forum on Spirituality has been closed for years. Please bring it back, there are lots of Spiritual people in Ireland and elsewhere.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,698 ✭✭✭Gumbi


    Xenophile wrote: »
    In this illusory world, and we think we are here, yes we are here in the illusion to wake to the fact neither time or space exists. This realisation is called enlightenment and signals the end of our ego and suffering by allowing ourselves to be absorbed into Oneness which means that we are no longer subject to the laws of duality. Only Goodness, Peace, Love and Joy etc. are real at this stage.

    "Neither space nor time exists". You're going to have to back this up. Do you even know what "space" means? It exists by definition, for we cannot exist without it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,071 ✭✭✭Xenophile


    Well let me say that I do not exist and neither does anyone else.

    Even though I believe in reincarnation is happening within the illusion or if you like the dream, I know that reincarnation is impossible as time does not exist.

    When we fully realise (not just in an intellectual way) that life is just a dream we will free of all pain , suffering and all negative emotions such as anger, fear, anxiety etc. Just like a bad dream or nightmare we feel all the negative emotions associated with it while it is happening. And upon awakening we wonder just how something like a dream could affect us in such a way.

    This way of thinking or looking on the world is not for everyone and I suggest that it is better if anyone is upset by these ideas or anything that does not bring peace to your mind should be dropped. These ideas are not for everyone, this I know from my own life experience. Enlightenment can only come to a mind that is still, calm and peaceful.

    The Forum on Spirituality has been closed for years. Please bring it back, there are lots of Spiritual people in Ireland and elsewhere.



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