Filthy Apartment - deposit

shoes34

My mother owns an apartment in a University town and had it rented to 4 people, it is a two bedroomed apt - quite spacious and only 5 years old. The tenants moved out on the 30th of May and we went to clean it on Friday, I told her I would help, which was just as well, as it took us 5 hours to clean it, receipts on the floor from January, bins not empted out, there was a free stand freezer and there was beer all spilled in same, bluemoulded bread on the counter, surprised there wasn't vermin in the place.

The plan was to rent it out for the summer as she has done on previous years and the tenants that were there had asked could they move back in September, well 3 of the 4 of them as one is finished in college. After the state of the place I would be of the view to tell them that they can't move back in in September, no lease has been signed. The one tenant who wasn't coming back in September called to collect his deposit and Mum had decided to keep €100 from each of them as the place was a pigsty and she had to come up from the country to clean it. He threw a hissy fit and said that the other guys were the dirty ones and that he did clean and then he slammed the door and kicked it. Now my mother has never kept anyones deposit before but she just couldn't believe the state they left it in, I would say they never once cleaned a toilet or sweeped the floors, there was a grease on the kitchen floor which took a lot of boiling water to get off.

As she has never kept a deposit from someone before I just want to know if she did the correct thing, there was about 9 bags of rubbish to go to the skip and 5 hours of work in a two bed apartment.

endacl

Sounds fair, if its as you described. The tenant will get over it. Or not. His problem. He'll probably look after his next place though.

MariMel

I have no problem standing corrected on this but as far as I am aware, you need receipts for cleaning should you keep want to keep something from a deposit for this. And also you cannot charge (retain deposit) for work you undertake yourself.
Usual practice is to visit before the tenants leave and inspect property with them in order to remedy any issues that need sorting before they move out.
Should you have receipts for any rubbish that needed dumping, then I think, as far as I am aware, you can retain this amount from the deposit.
There are very specific reasons why a landlord can withhold a deposit.

If they paid their rent on time and your mother would have considered them good tenants other than finding out the place was a mess, then I would suggest a house inspection every six months just so that you and the tenants can keep on top of everything.

Agent Smith

€100 from Each?

Handy little side earner. you have receipts for the cleaning of the apartment? If not its the tennents word against yours....


no lease has been signed? Is your mother Registered as a landlord?

the_syco

Sounds like she is claiming for petrol and rent lost, but tbh, tough sh|t, as it sounds like she didn't give a hoot about the place up until now.

ladysarah

she is allowed charged 12.50 euro an hour for cleaning. 2 people for 5 hours is 125 plus 20 to 30 for cleaning agents. cost of disposingof rubbish is 7 to 10 euros per bag average it at 8 abd multiply by 9 bags is 72. roughly about 222 so lads should get bck 75 between them.

El_Dangeroso

And that's why tenants use their deposit as last month's rent folks. To circumvent amateur landlords who haven't a clue of the laws they are obligated to follow.

The_Conductor

ladysarah wrote: »

she is allowed charged 12.50 euro an hour for cleaning. 2 people for 5 hours is 125 plus 20 to 30 for cleaning agents. cost of disposingof rubbish is 7 to 10 euros per bag average it at 8 abd multiply by 9 bags is 72. roughly about 222 so lads should get bck 75 between them.

In normal situations- the cleaning agent charges a flatrate EUR50
Contract cleaners @ EUR 50 an hour for 5 hours
Miniskip for refuse removal EUR 100

+ VAT @ 13.5% ontop of all of the above

400+VAT, call it about EUR460

Thats- if they choose to go with good contract cleaners in future.

For now- providing there is photographic evidence- good luck to any of the tenants challenging the EUR100 deduction with the PRTB- though they are well within their rights to try.

djimi

Landlords are not legally allowed to deduct from the deposit for any work which they carry out themselves. Your mother, in this case, has no right to deduct from the tenants deposit. If she wanted to deduct for cleaning then she should have hired a cleaning company who would be able to provide a receipt/invoice for the deduction.

Edit:

From here:

If the landlord retains a deposit, the tenant must be provided with a written and itemised explanation of the reasons why. It is important to keep receipts for repairs to damages or items replaced. These will be required if the tenant complains to the PRTB.

Note: It is not possible to claim for your own time e.g. if you re-paint a room yourself. You cannot put a value on this time and deduct it from the tenants deposit.

http://www.irishlandlord.com/index.aspx?page=faq&answer=58

The_Conductor

Thats why contract cleaners are used most of the time.

L1011

ladysarah wrote: »

she is allowed charged 12.50 euro an hour for cleaning. 2 people for 5 hours is 125 plus 20 to 30 for cleaning agents. cost of disposingof rubbish is 7 to 10 euros per bag average it at 8 abd multiply by 9 bags is 72. roughly about 222 so lads should get bck 75 between them.

Where did you invent these figures from?

ladysarah

from experience - recently we had a property in similar state. met with tenants and they were happy to pay for cleaning - got quotes in front of tenants from 12.50 to 15 per hour - we went withb1250 per hout - cleaning agents cost 23. rubbish at dunp was 8 perbag .i took it and gave them receipt but didnot charge for mytime or fuel. I paidgor carpet cleaning, painting and professional cooker cleaning and gutters myselfas that is myresponsibility. tenants were happy with outcome. by law tenants only have to pay when it is beyound normal cleaning whivh in my case and the Op case itwas

djimi

ladysarah wrote: »

from experience - recently we had a property in similar state. met with tenants and they were happy to pay for cleaning - got quotes in front of tenants from 12.50 to 15 per hour - we went withb1250 per hout - cleaning agents cost 23. rubbish at dunp was 8 perbag .i took it and gave them receipt but didnot charge for mytime or fuel. I paidgor carpet cleaning, painting and professional cooker cleaning and gutters myselfas that is myresponsibility. tenants were happy with outcome. by law tenants only have to pay when it is beyound normal cleaning whivh in my case and the Op case itwas

What do you mean you got quotes in front of the tenant; do you mean that you got external cleaners to come in and clean the apartment for you, or were you just trying to get an idea of how much per hour it costs to clean an apartment? You can deduct for external cleaning, but if you carry out the work yourself then you are not legally allowed to charge the tenants for your time. The only thing that you could have deducted for was the disposal of rubbish.

hfallada

€100 each seems steep. You should have just got a private company in and got a proper bill and taken pictures if there was issues with the landlord

ladysarah

my tenants were advised by threshold they were liabje on foot of photos they showed threshold. We rang cleaning people in front of tenants who gave quotes per hour over the phone - we slso gave them the option to clean it themselves or get their own cleaner in. you are incorrect about they not been liable for cleaning. threshold advised thrm to clean itor pay for it

ladysarah

my tenants were advised by threshold they were liabje on foot of photos they showed threshold. We rang cleaning people in front of tenants who gave quotes per hour over the phone - we slso gave them the option to clean it themselves or get their own cleaner in. you are incorrect about they not been liable for cleaning. threshold advised thrm to clean itor pay for it they paid the cleaners directly

djimi

ladysarah wrote: »

my tenants were advised by threshold they were liabje on foot of photos they showed threshold. We rang cleaning people in front of tenants who gave quotes per hour over the phone - we slso gave them the option to clean it themselves or get their own cleaner in. you are incorrect about they not been liable for cleaning. threshold advised thrm to clean itor pay for it

They are liable for cleaning, but only if you hire external cleaners. Ive already posted a link above to say that you cannot deduct for any work which you carry out yourself; that includes cleaning.

ladysarah

i saud we used cleaners in my first post. i also stated i brought rubbish to dump but only chsrged for codt of dumping and not my time or fuel

djimi

ladysarah wrote: »

i saud we used cleaners in my first post. i also stated i brought rubbish to dump but only chsrged for codt of dumping and not my time or fuel

Well then your situation is not the same as the OP, who carried out their own cleaning. Your initial post is very misleading.

ladysarah

i stated they had a choice of cleaners for 12.50 or 15 and they choose the 12.50 cleaners. I am fully aware anything you do yrself cannot be claimed for and was more then happy to bring the rubbishto the dump myself And ifi had the time i wouldhave no issue cleaning myself,

I said line the OP it was left beyound normal cleaning.

djimi

ladysarah wrote: »

i stated they had a choice of cleaners for 12.50 or 15 and they choose the 12.50 cleaners. I am fully aware anything you do yrself cannot be claimed for and was more then happy to bring the rubbishto the dump myself And ifi had the time i wouldhave no issue cleaning myself,

I said line the OP it was left beyound normal cleaning.

The OP has already cleaned the property themselves. You are confusing matters by talking about hiring cleaners, and your first post stated as fact they could claim 12.50 an hour for cleaning, without specifying that this is for hiring external cleaners.

L1011

ladysarah wrote: »

from experience - recently we had a property in similar state. met with tenants and they were happy to pay for cleaning - got quotes in front of tenants from 12.50 to 15 per hour - we went withb1250 per hout - cleaning agents cost 23. rubbish at dunp was 8 perbag .i took it and gave them receipt but didnot charge for mytime or fuel. I paidgor carpet cleaning, painting and professional cooker cleaning and gutters myselfas that is myresponsibility. tenants were happy with outcome. by law tenants only have to pay when it is beyound normal cleaning whivh in my case and the Op case itwas

So you made them up and stated them as if they were legal limits, then.

Either that, or you got cleaners in that cost that much - its near impossible to tell from your contradictory posts. You can charge whatever the cleaners cost, not what you're stating as a limit.

engineermike

Technically shoes34 could be contracted to clean for her Mam & she's not the landlord nor obligated to clean up someone elses mess with out payment. So whatever the going rate is & cleaning materials + rubbish removal.
Its not going to leave much change out of 400 quid either way.
I suppose the moral in the story is leases are there to protect both parties. Grey area's leave a lot of room for ppl to 'prick' around.
mf

ted1

smccarrick wrote: »

In normal situations- the cleaning agent charges a flatrate EUR50
Contract cleaners @ EUR 50 an hour for 5 hours
Miniskip for refuse removal EUR 100

+ VAT @ 13.5% ontop of all of the above

400+VAT, call it about EUR460

Thats- if they choose to go with good contract cleaners in future.

For now- providing there is photographic evidence- good luck to any of the tenants challenging the EUR100 deduction with the PRTB- though they are well within their rights to try.

Those prices are a tad high. 50 euro am hour is taking the piss. 25 would be considered high. Mini skip for 100? Throw it in the bin or get a 1 ton slip bag for 70.

ted1

engineermike wrote: »

Technically shoes34 could be contracted to clean for her Mam & she's not the landlord nor obligated to clean up someone elses mess with out payment. So whatever the going rate is & cleaning materials + rubbish removal.
Its not going to leave much change out of 400 quid either way.
I suppose the moral in the story is leases are there to protect both parties. Grey area's leave a lot of room for ppl to 'prick' around.
mf

We technically shoes should have a registered company and declare the income at the end of the year

ladysarah

most cleaning companies are expensive. my tenants were present when we rang around and choose obviously to go with the cheapest but they had the option of getting their own cleaner in. they were delighted we were paying for carpet cleaning as we always clean carpets. my posts are factual and go by PRTB and threshold.

djimi

ladysarah wrote: »

most cleaning companies are expensive. my tenants were present when we rang around and choose obviously to go with the cheapest but they had the option of getting their own cleaner in. they were delighted we were paying for carpet cleaning as we always clean carpets. my posts are factual and go by PRTB and threshold.

You posts are misleading and leave out key information which make it sound like you are suggesting that the OP could charge an amount for cleaning which they carried out themselves.

djimi

engineermike wrote: »

Technically shoes34 could be contracted to clean for her Mam & she's not the landlord nor obligated to clean up someone elses mess with out payment. So whatever the going rate is & cleaning materials + rubbish removal.
Its not going to leave much change out of 400 quid either way.
I suppose the moral in the story is leases are there to protect both parties. Grey area's leave a lot of room for ppl to 'prick' around.
mf

For the purpose of determining whether a renter is a tenant or a licensee the immediate family of the landlord is considered to be the same as a landlord (ie the renter is considered to be a licensee rather than a tenant if they are living with the landlord or a member of their immediate family). Im not sure if it is the same in this case but Id be surprised if it isnt. In either case, the landlord also carried out the cleaning work, so I suspect that would sufficiently muddy the water were it to go to a PRTB hearing as to make it impossible to determine what costs could be deducted.

narddog

Sounds like you had a couple of filthy ****ing knackers in there.

discodavie

ladysarah wrote: »

she is allowed charged 12.50 euro an hour for cleaning. 2 people for 5 hours is 125 plus 20 to 30 for cleaning agents. cost of disposingof rubbish is 7 to 10 euros per bag average it at 8 abd multiply by 9 bags is 72. roughly about 222 so lads should get bck 75 between them.

This whole thing is rubbish

ladysarah wrote: »

my tenants were advised by threshold they were liabje on foot of photos they showed threshold. We rang cleaning people in front of tenants who gave quotes per hour over the phone - we slso gave them the option to clean it themselves or get their own cleaner in. you are incorrect about they not been liable for cleaning. threshold advised thrm to clean itor pay for it

The tenant is liable for all damage above normal wear and tear
and from section 16 of the act

"(g) if paragraph (f) is not complied with, take such steps as the landlord may reasonably require to be taken for the pur¬pose of restoring the dwelling to the condition mentioned in paragraph (f) or to defray any costs incurred by the landlord in his or her taking such steps as are reasonable for that purpose,"

So the tenant is liable for the costs

OP you cannot charge what you do not have a receipt for and ladysarah please dont give out opinion as fact

3DataModem

Just give your mam an invoice for 400 for your work, expenses, etc and declare it in your income tax some time before next October.