Isn't eternal life just as bad as eternal death?

smcgiff

Shenshen wrote: »

What's bad about eternal death?
I'm kind of looking forward to that, thank you very much?

What in particular?

Shenshen

smcgiff wrote: »

What in particular?

The "eternal death" bit. Ceasing to exist.
Mind you, I'm in no rush, but there is some comfort in knowing that at the end, you just die and disappear. I like that thought.

smcgiff

Shenshen wrote: »

The "eternal death" bit. Ceasing to exist.
Mind you, I'm in no rush, but there is some comfort in knowing that at the end, you just die and disappear. I like that thought.

It's not as if you'd notice it, what being, dead.

Do you spend much time contemplating your experiences for the billions of years before you were born?

Shenshen

smcgiff wrote: »

It's not as if you'd notice it, what being, dead.

Do you spend much time contemplating your experiences for the billions of years before you were born?

Nope.

I don't have to notice it, that's the beauty of it. I won't notice anything - I won't exist.

smcgiff

Shenshen wrote: »

Nope.

I don't have to notice it, that's the beauty of it. I won't notice anything - I won't exist.

Whereas if you lived forever it would become tedious after the odd billion years or so (which is a blink of an eye eternity wise).

The only way it wouldn't be tedious is if you didn't function as you do now. But, then it wouldn't be you.

Sinfonia

mangochavez wrote: »

What if there was an afterlife somewhere... maybe it was a peaceful place full of light and joy but... then what?

Would we live and grow old like now or... would we be young and healthy forever without any problems? It sounds great at first but... try to imagine living like that for a million, billion, trillion...

trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion years.

And then after that... living the same number of years after that... forever.

I like life and I don't want to die because I fear it but... I think when I experience something I want an ending even though I am irrational and sometimes want to keep living.

So if there is an afterlife how will life be different than now?

Literally the cause of my panic attacks since circa '03!
Closing thread immediately now, bai.

miss no stars

I was actually thinking about this this morning, the whole idea of "heaven" and eternal happiness and all that. The fundamental problem I have with the concept is that to appreciate happiness, we must also experience sadness....

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You can't say with confidence that some form of God does or does not exist.

seb65 wrote: »

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Actually you're both wrong. There is no evidence of a divine power of any sort whatsoever. Therefore I can state with confidence that it does not exist. If you want to refute it, the onus is on the person claiming that something exists to provide the evidence for it.

For example, prove to me that the sky is not composed of invisible blue elephants. Impossible task - which is why the onus is on the person making the claim of existence to prove it, rather than the person refuting the existence to disprove the existence of something for which there is no evidence.

Simples.

If you want to actually know about the universe, there's a handy FAQ here:
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmology_faq.html#bestfit

We know what happened in the universe as far back as 10^-37 seconds after the big bang. We know that dark energy and dark matter exist, even though we don't yet understand them fully.

We're getting towards understanding the universe completely. Not there yet, but no evidence to suggest that we won't get there (unless we blow up the planet first...).

Iwasfrozen

Terry wrote: »

Yes I can.
There is absolutely no definitive proof of any form of higher being.

Show me evidence of any one of the hundreds of supreme beings who supposedly created this place, and I'll completely debunk it.

Show me one of these Gods in person and I'll shake its hand. Or noodly appendage.

An absence of evidence is not proof. And "debunking" known religions is not proof that some form of God exists. If you want to pretend to be all scientific at least think about what you're saying. :rolleyes:

No one can say for certain that some form of higher power doesn't exist, no one. Because the truth is we just don't know.

miss no stars

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

An absence of evidence is not proof. And "debunking" known religions is not proof that some form of God exists. If you want to pretend to be all scientific at least think about what you're saying. :rolleyes:

Actually he is being all scientific. The onus is on the person making a claim for the existence of something to prove that it exists. Until such a point as there is overwhelming evidence in their favour, the scientific method is that the claim is unsupported and the status quo is maintained - in this instance, that there is no evidence that a god exists.

Iwasfrozen

miss no stars wrote: »

Actually he is being all scientific. The onus is on the person making a claim for the existence of something to prove that it exists. Until such a point as there is overwhelming evidence in their favour, the scientific method is that the claim is unsupported and the status quo is maintained - in this instance, that there is no evidence that a god exists.

That's actually not true. I'm saying we don't know. He is saying he 100% knows and doesn't doubt his supposed knowledge.

The onus is on the person making the statement to provide the evidence. In this case that no form of greater intelligence exists.

copeyhagen

the only thing worse than death, is believing in an afterlife.

when you die, thats it. your buried in the ground and you become worm food.

the end.

Shenshen

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

That's actually not true. I'm saying we don't know. He is saying he 100% knows and doesn't doubt his supposed knowledge.

The onus is on the person making the statement to provide the evidence. In this case that no form of greater intelligence exists.

Was that what you asked the person who once revealed to you that Santa doesn't exist?

miss no stars

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

That's actually not true. I'm saying we don't know. He is saying he 100% knows and doesn't doubt his supposed knowledge.

The onus is on the person making the statement to provide the evidence. In this case that no form of greater intelligence exists.

No. You're missing the point completely. There is such a thing as the scientific method, in which you appear to be completely unversed.

I'll elaborate.

Current status: No proof of the existence of a god.

Claim: God exists.

Onus: on the person making the claim to gather enough evidence to support their claim.

It works in positives - you PROVE something. You don't prove non-existence, or in other words, disprove existence of something that hasn't yet been proven to exist!

darlett

If they have the internet there, it'll not be that bad.

Iwasfrozen

miss no stars wrote: »

No. You're missing the point completely. There is such a thing as the scientific method, in which you appear to be completely unversed.

I'll elaborate.

Current status: No proof of the existence of a god.

Claim: God exists.

Onus: on the person making the claim to gather enough evidence to support their claim.

It works in positives - you PROVE something. You don't prove non-existence, or in other words, disprove existence of something that hasn't yet been proven to exist!

The current status is that some form of God might exist because it hasn't been proven otherwise. Certainly no one can say, without proof of evidence that no form of God exists because they just don't know.

I don't know either but I admit that fact.

y0pperz

The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again. In one Age, called the Third Age by some, an Age yet to come, an Age long past, a wind rose. The wind was not the beginning. There are neither beginnings nor endings to the turning of the Wheel of Time. But it was a beginning.

RexHamilton

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The current status is that some form of God might exist because it hasn't been proven otherwise. Certainly no one can say, without proof of evidence that no form of God exists because they just don't know.

I don't know either but I admit that fact.

On that basis The current status is that Santa, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, Spiderman, Batman and Iron Man all might exist.

Yes, we know them as fictional characters and there is no evidence that they actually exist, but by your logic you can't actually prove they don't exist. I mean, we have had no sightings of them, but maybe they don't want to be found. They could all actually be living together, in Josef Fritzl's dungeon.


To elaborate, the current status is that there is no proof of god's existence as was said earlier, therefore there is no reason to believe in it's existence. Belief and faith are not evidence so the current "might" doesn't come into it.

miss no stars

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The current status is that some form of God might exist.

No it's not. The current status is that there is no evidence for any form of god and so it does not exist.

DB Cooper 23

There are time's when I think about this and the idea of living forever and it sends me into a panic attack. It's the only thing that causes them for me. I can't comprehend the idea of living forever. I try not to think about it that much anymore - it doesn't help to dwell on it. We can't change what will happen one way or the other

Iwasfrozen

RexHamilton wrote: »

On that basis The current status is that Santa, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, Spiderman, Batman and Iron Man all might exist.

Yes, we know them as fictional characters and there is no evidence that they actually exist, but by your logic you can't actually prove they don't exist. I mean, we have had no sightings of them, but maybe they don't want to be found. They could all actually be living together, in Josef Fritzl's dungeon.

FFS this is getting on my nerves. Yes we do have evidence all those characters don't exist.

RexHamilton wrote: »

To elaborate, the current status is that there is no proof of god's existence as was said earlier, therefore there is no reason to believe in it's existence. Belief and faith are not evidence so the current "might" doesn't come into it.

There is no reason to believe in some God's existence but there is no reason to definitely say no sort of God exists at all. The only thing you can do is shrug your shoulders and get on with life. You'll be happier for it.

Iwasfrozen

miss no stars wrote: »

No it's not. The current status is that there is no evidence for any form of god and so it does not exist.

That's an enormous leap in logic.

Shenshen

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

FFS this is getting on my nerves. Yes we do have evidence all those characters don't exist.

Really?
I'm curious, can you please present this evidence?

Iwasfrozen

Shenshen wrote: »

Really?
I'm curious, can you please present this evidence?

We know the guy who invented Iron man, those of us who have children know for definite Santa and the Tooth fairy don't exist.

Shenshen

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

We know the guy who invented Iron man, those of us who have children know for definite Santa and the Tooth fairy don't exist.

Invented? How do you know it was an invention, he could have met the fellow and decided to share his adventures.

As for having children, just because you don't believe in the tooth fairy and Santa and therefore have to play their role doesn't mean that they don't exist. They might just avoid your house because you refuse to believe in them?

smcgiff

Shenshen wrote: »

Really?
I'm curious, can you please present this evidence?

Yeah - I read book, okay more like a magazine. It described how he was born, communicated with his father in a mysterious way and he came to earth to save us.

Superman be his name.

miss no stars

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

That's an enormous leap in logic.

No. The enormous leap in logic is to say that there's no evidence but it still exists.

Iwasfrozen

miss no stars wrote: »

No. The enormous leap in logic is to say that there's no evidence but it still exists.

Might still exist.

Shenshen

miss no stars wrote: »

No. The enormous leap in logic is to say that there's no evidence but it still exists.

Well, to be fair, it's possible.
Anything is possible, after all.

It's just very, very improbable. To the point of being utterly negligable as a concept, same as super heros, Santa and Russell's tea pot.

miss no stars

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Might still exist.

At the moment: Zero evidence despite how advanced human knowledge has become - doesn't exist.

IF a small amount of evidence should come around that may indicate existence of a god, then we would say might.

But at the moment, there's nothing. Despite the efforts of many, there is no evidence whatsoever... So we say that it doesn't exist.

jimgoose

Actually, I'm rather looking forward to it.

seb65

miss no stars wrote: »

Actually he is being all scientific. The onus is on the person making a claim for the existence of something to prove that it exists. Until such a point as there is overwhelming evidence in their favour, the scientific method is that the claim is unsupported and the status quo is maintained - in this instance, that there is no evidence that a god exists.

Well there's NDEs and pre-birth experiences. Look up stories from hospice nurses who've sat with a number of people at their time of death.

These are all anecdotal of course and I admit that. However, so were the stories of the first explorers who saw lands with strange peoples and viola. There are many things that exist that we cannot see, such as brain waves. We only have evidence of them because we've figured out how to measure them. Maybe we're just not there yet on the afterlife.

Some scientists hypothesise that our brains are in a quantum state and our subjective experiences and knowledge are stored in the brain's micro tubules. When we die, our brains lose this quantum state and our "self" is released into the atmosphere.

Who knows. I just believe it's human arrogance to believe we have the universe figured out.

IM0

dying is alot like sleeping, its only when you wake up you realise that you were asleep. and if its one thing that doesnt happen after you have been dead for years is that you wake up.

there is nothing to fear other than the last moments when you take your last breath [which no one will have experienced in their life before and will be so painfull your mind cant comprehend now, its going to happen to us all its just a matter of when] to when you pass the point of no return, after that its just like sleeping forever basically everyone else will know you are dead but you never will.

you could also turn that on its head and say maybe this is the afterlife :eek:

and like someone said before our lives have been 'flashing' in slow motion before us in real time :eek::eek:

:(

:mad::mad:

:cool:

:eek:

:pac:



:cool:

RexHamilton

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

We know the guy who invented Iron man, those of us who have children know for definite Santa and the Tooth fairy don't exist.

Prove it. This is your logic. Just because the tooth fairy doesn't come to your house to give your children money for teeth isn't evidence that she doesn't exist. (I don't know why, but I assume she's a lady).

We know that Iron man is a character written about in a book. We know the same about god. We know no more about either.

Celly Smunt

Nobody here alive today has died for a significant time and has come back.Its idiotic to declare that there is or isn't an afterlife,therefore I ponder but don't convict anybody elses belief.

IM0

smcgiff wrote: »

Whereas if you lived forever it would become tedious after the odd billion years or so (which is a blink of an eye eternity wise).

The only way it wouldn't be tedious is if you didn't function as you do now. But, then it wouldn't be you.

listen dude life is about shagging, nothing else. blunt but true, thats what it all boils down to. we are like robots to carry our genes to another generation end of. having to do that forever? nah |Ill pass along with all the crap that goes with it

RexHamilton

pmcmahon wrote: »

Nobody here alive today has died for a significant time and has come back.Its idiotic to declare that there is or isn't an afterlife,therefore I ponder but don't convict anybody elses belief.

It's not idiotic to say that you don't believe in an afterlife though as there is no evidence to suggest otherwise. Nobody has ever been to furthest reaches of the Universe either but if I said that their might be a planet, billions of light years away, full of only Playboy models in their prime, who are staunchly against clothes and we are flown there by a super sonic pterodactyl with the voice of Leonard Nemoy after we die, then i'd be declared idiotic and insane. There is however, as much evidence for this as there is for any other afterlife.

Celly Smunt

RexHamilton wrote: »

It's not idiotic to say that you don't believe in an afterlife though as there is no evidence to suggest otherwise. Nobody has ever been to furthest reaches of the Universe either but if I said that their might be a planet, billions of light years away, full of only Playboy models in their prime, who are staunchly against clothes and we are flown there by a super sonic pterodactyl with the voice of Leonard Nemoy after we die, then i'd be declared idiotic and insane. There is however, as much evidence for this as there is for any other afterlife.

the possibility of an after life is just as likely as no after life,its 50\50,nobody knows for definite either way so it is impossible to declare it either way.

IM0

miss no stars wrote: »

At the moment: Zero evidence despite how advanced human knowledge has become - doesn't exist.

IF a small amount of evidence should come around that may indicate existence of a god, then we would say might.

But at the moment, there's nothing. Despite the efforts of many, there is no evidence whatsoever... So we say that it doesn't exist.

youre full of ****, all we can say about gods is we dont know, and that is coming from a militant atheist btw, well not militant actually that seems to be your crown! - definate atheist though, but not a delusional one, nothing can be said for certain one way or the other and to think otherwise is basically arrogant and delusional

beliefs can or never will be proven, thats what makes them beliefs, its a faith.

science is another crock of **** in ways, its a constant paradime, it doesnt KNOW [anything 100%] **** all either but it throws up some good stuff every now and again so in the round we decide its worth all the ****e it throws around so we get to the nuggets which are actually usefull

miss no stars

IM0 wrote: »

youre full of ****, all we can say about gods is we dont know, and that is coming from a militant atheist btw, well not militant actually that seems to be your crown! - definate atheist though, but not a delusional one, nothing can be said for certain one way or the other and to think otherwise is basically arrogant and delusional

beliefs can or never will be proven, thats what makes them beliefs, its a faith.

I'm not talking from an atheist standpoint; I'm talking from a scientific standpoint. Which is that there is no evidence therefore the probability of it existing is so small as to be negligibile.

And what ever happened to attack the post, not the poster?

Shenshen

pmcmahon wrote: »

the possibility of an after life is just as likely as no after life,its 50\50,nobody knows for definite either way so it is impossible to declare it either way.

A bit like claiming the possibilty of god is 50/50, or the existence of Iron Man.

In total absence of evidence, it's only reasonable to assume absence of existence.

IM0

miss no stars wrote: »

I'm not talking from an atheist standpoint; I'm talking from a scientific standpoint. Which is that there is no evidence therefore the probability of it existing is so small as to be negligibile.

And what ever happened to attack the post, not the poster?

goes out the window when someone is trolling ort just too dumb to comprehend when it has been spelled out for them many times sine they first started talking ****e, which to be fair is a possibility, there are lots of dumb people around afterall

miss no stars

IM0 wrote: »

goes out the window when someone is trolling ort just too dumb to comprehend when it has been spelled out for them many times sine they first started talking ****e, which to be fair is a possibility, there are lots of dumb people around afterall

Actually I've been spelling it out. If there was any incomplete evidence at all then it would be 50/50. There's no evidence whatsoever. Different story altogether.

RexHamilton

pmcmahon wrote: »

the possibility of an after life is just as likely as no after life,its 50\50,nobody knows for definite either way so it is impossible to declare it either way.

That's not true in the slightest. You're right that we can't prove whether an afterlife exists or not, but to suggest it's 50/50 is absurd.

The evidence we have that there is nothing after you die. Your brain, the part of your body that makes you, you ceases to work and the rest of your organs cease to work meaning you decompose to the point that eventually no part of you remains.

The evidence that there is an afterlife - None.

To suggest that it's a 50/50 shot is ridiculous. The chances of an afterlife being the same as the chances of you flipping heads on a coin?? Really??

seb65

RexHamilton wrote: »

The evidence we have that there is nothing after you die. Your brain, the part of your body that makes you, you ceases to work and the rest of your organs cease to work meaning you decompose to the point that eventually no part of you remains.

The evidence that there is an afterlife - None.

Wrong. People who were clinically dead and whose brains have shown no levels of functioning experienced subjective realities.

RexHamilton

seb65 wrote: »

Wrong. People who were clinically dead and whose brains have shown no levels of functioning experienced subjective realities.

Go on and expand on that there.

IM0

RexHamilton wrote: »

That's not true in the slightest. You're right that we can't prove whether an afterlife exists or not, but to suggest it's 50/50 is absurd.

The evidence we have that there is nothing after you die. Your brain, the part of your body that makes you, you ceases to work and the rest of your organs cease to work meaning you decompose to the point that eventually no part of you remains.

The evidence that there is an afterlife - None.

To suggest that it's a 50/50 shot is ridiculous. The chances of an afterlife being the same as the chances of you flipping heads on a coin?? Really??

everything in life is a 50/50 to think otherwise is deluded thats just a general point for people who get so wrapped up in statistics

you have just as much chance of being murdered on the way home tonight as not, stats are made to enforce agendas nothing more they dont prove ****

Shenshen

seb65 wrote: »

Wrong. People who were clinically dead and whose brains have shown no levels of functioning experienced subjective realities.

Brain death is irreversible.
There is partial brain death, from which some people do indeed recover, but nobody has yet ever been revived once all of their brain activity ceased.

Shenshen

IM0 wrote: »

everything in life is a 50/50 to think otherwise is deluded thats just a general point for people who get so wrapped up in statistics

you have just as much chance of being murdered on the way home tonight as not, stats are made to enforce agendas nothing more they dont prove ****

Makes you wonder how so many people each week manage to not win the lottery, if the odds are 50/50 for everyone buying a ticket....

IM0

Shenshen wrote: »

Makes you wonder how so many people each week manage to not win the lottery, if the odds are 50/50 for everyone buying a ticket....

youre not getting this are you

Shenshen

IM0 wrote: »

youre not getting this are you

I'd agree that stochastic mathematics wasn't my strongest subject at school, but I still think you've got that 50/50 idea arseways, sorry.