"Ireland’s priests will have almost disappeared in 20 years"

Bannasidhe

Kidchameleon wrote: »

So you would send them to a Catholic school if there was no other school available once they didn't need to be baptized?

Are you deliberately missing the point that in much of the country there is no other option?

It's Home school or 'Catholic' school which is really the State School?

lazygal

Kidchameleon wrote: »

She would still put them into a Catholic school and risk indoctrination.

I said I would not baptise my child(ren) purely to get them into a school. If, like many parents, the only local public school, which I'm paying for through my taxes, was the only way to send my child(dren) to school, I would send them, but if they weren't allowed to attend unless baptised, I would seek other options like private schooling or home schooling. How much clearer can I be?

And we'd be very conscious of the need to counter Catholic dogma outside school times.

Kidchameleon

I don't know weather my words are being twisted or what. Look, if you say something like this:

lazygal wrote: »

It's because people like you go along with things like catholic weddings, christenings and chanting for an easy life that people like me and others are having to negotiate our way through having our children indoctrinated in schools we pay for, against our wishes.

You should not EVER consider bringing your kids to a Catholic school. To do so would, in my opinion, make you a hypocrite. Of course the people on this forum will disagree but for a neutral like myself its blatantly obvious. Now I've explained myself two or three times so if it still doesn't make sense, read over the thread.

Sarky

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I don't know weather my words are being twisted or what. Look, if you say something like this:



You should not EVER consider bringing your kids to a Catholic school. To do so would, in my opinion, make you a hypocrite. Of course the people on this forum will disagree but for a neutral like myself its blatantly obvious. Now I've explained myself two or three times so if it still doesn't make sense, read over the thread.

Your words aren't being twisted. You're just not making very good points.

Bannasidhe

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I don't know weather my words are being twisted or what. Look, if you say something like this:



You should not EVER consider bringing your kids to a Catholic school. To do so would, in my opinion, make you a hypocrite. Of course the people on this forum will disagree but for a neutral like myself its blatantly obvious. Now I've explained myself two or three times so if it still doesn't make sense, read over the thread.

Hello. Hey Kid. Did you see this?

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Are you deliberately missing the point that in much of the country there is no other option?

It's Home school or 'Catholic' school which is really the State School?

Education is compulsory, every tax payer pays to fund education. 94% of State Funded (i.e. taxpayers) National Schools are controlled by the RCC. They are not 'Catholic' schools - the are State Schools managed by the RCC. Do you see the difference? It is quite important.

Do non-Catholics get a 'taxation which pays for schools' opt out - No.

Our money is helping pay for them therefore we have the right to have our children attend them as they are the Schools provided by the State. In much of the country they are the only Schools provided by the State.

But Atheists should quit work to be available to home school their children rather than insist that the Schools provided by the State treat all children equally regardless of religion or lack thereof?

WE should shut up, keep paying taxes and have our children isolated from their peers?

WOW.

Delirium

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I don't know weather my words are being twisted or what. Look, if you say something like this:

You should not EVER consider bringing your kids to a Catholic school. To do so would, in my opinion, make you a hypocrite. Of course the people on this forum will disagree but for a neutral like myself its blatantly obvious. Now I've explained myself two or three times so if it still doesn't make sense, read over the thread.

Then anyone who holds the same opinion as lazygal is a hypocrite if they pay their taxes as part of their taxes fund the public school system.

A parent complaining about the consequences of the parents that "go with the flow" while possibly having to send their kid to a Catholic school (sans-baptism) isn't hypocrisy. They're not engaging in the behaviour that they giving out about.

It's as daft as accusing car drivers of being hypocrites for complaining about the high number of accidents due to drunk drivers, even though they themselves drive a car. :rolleyes:

Zombrex

Kidchameleon wrote: »

She would still put them into a Catholic school and risk indoctrination.

How is that worse than moving them across the country to try and find a school that isn't Catholic?

You seem to be complaining that lazy would pick the lesser of two evils (while still pointing out that they are both evils), where as you would pick the greater of two evils and wouldn't complain that they are both evils.

And yet she is the hypocrite.

kylith

Not to forget that moving area to a non-catholic school does nothing to address the actual problem; that state schools are catering only for the select. Quietly sloping off to where you won't cause trouble is giving in to them. The only way to effect change is to kick up a fuss until all state schools accept and cater for all children. If this means removing religious ethos altogether then so much the better.

Zombrex

Sarky wrote: »

Your words aren't being twisted. You're just not making very good points.

His point should be if you complain about Catholic schools you shouldn't send your child to one, if you do you are a hypocrite.

Which is stupid. For example I complain all the time about Dublin Bus (because they do an awful lot worthy of complaint). I still use Dublin Bus. Because I have to. "Move to some where else" is not an option.

Kidchameleon would not have to think that hard to find an example of a public service that he complains about but still frequently uses because the alternative is too difficult to contend with.

Umm, complaining about others doing something that you do yourself ... I think there is a term for that ...

Bannasidhe

Zombrex wrote: »

Umm, complaining about others doing something that you do yourself ... I think there is a term for that ...

Irish.

:pac:

Paddy Samurai

SebBerkovich wrote: »

Well it turns out the Catholic Church has discovered the lost art of basic mathematics.

In this article a priest points out the interesting fact that: an institution consisting of backward old men pretending to be celibate is attracting new young people about as well as the EDL is in attracting new Muslim members.

But without new people joining - in 20 years there won't be enough priests to perform all the priesting stuff we so desperately need..

IMO in 20 years numbers will increase as most priests will be married or have the choice,.So in future I don't think they will have the same problem with numbers.Recently 200 married anglican prients converted to Catholicism .Also the current pope comes from a culture/part of the world where there are plenty of married (catholic)priests ,that the church apparently turns a blind eye to.
Time will tell.....

Some estimates place the number of married priests at around 20% of all Catholic priests in the world. This would mean that 20% of all Catholic priests are officially and legally married, even though celibacy continues to be a requirement

Yet the church of the Southern Hemisphere offered an intriguing parallel universe. Free of the social uncertainty that plagued the Roman faith in the largely Protestant United States, the majority Catholic nations of Latin America seemed to have reached an accord between the pious and the practical. From missionary friends we heard tales of how different the situation was in Peru, for example. Married Catholic clergymen may not have been canonically sanctioned, but the existence of families made up of a priest, a wife and children was an acknowledged part of the culture — a “widely accepted outlaw priesthood,” as an Associated Press story once called it.

robindch

Zombrex wrote: »

You seem to be complaining that lazy would pick the lesser of two evils (while still pointing out that they are both evils), where as you would pick the greater of two evils and wouldn't complain that they are both evils.

There's a lot of that about - one rule for the religious, another for the non-religious. Where, on the one hand, Ronan Mullen says that Enda mentioned about the plastic foetuses, crosses, scapulars and threats in order to play the persecution card; while on the other hand, when somebody makes a silly joke about nails + crosses about Ronan, he goes ballistic, says things have gone too far etc, etc. Same for David Quinn, on the one hand moaning about Google shutting him down being censorship, while at the same time, threatening legal action against the Trinity College student newspaper. Then, there's this poor, persecuted clown:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/06/12/conservative-media-claim-persecution-of-christians-in-the-military-but-actual-soldiers-call-bull****/

It calls for a new English word for the hypocritical, one-eyed religious who sling whatever nasty crap they like about under the rubric of "free speech" but complain about "persecution" and "censoship" if somebody asks them to shut up; but who are also happy to threaten legal action against anybody who says boo to them.

"The Persecrated/Persetocracy/Persefactory/Friendorphobes"?

Something involving torment, harass, oppress, intimidate, torment, pester, irritate, bother...?

Bannasidhe

robindch wrote: »

It calls for a new English word for the hypocritical, one-eyed religious who sling whatever nasty crap they like about under the rubric of "free speech" but complain about "persecution" and "censoship" if somebody asks them to shut up; but who are also happy to threaten legal action against anybody who says boo to them.

"The Persecrated/Persetocracy/Persefactory/Friendorphobes"?

Something involving torment, harass, oppress, intimidate, torment, pester, irritate, bother...?

Perseholes.

Geomy

We were lucky in Shannon, we went to a Catholic school but it wasn't forced on us.
If you were not religious or from a different religions background you were very welcome. ..

The only hook was you had to participate in Bogball..

We had a great hurler from Chile, a Dutch Gaelic footballer, cockney free taker. ....

The kid's who weren't Catholic would get to play basketball or do arts and crafts. ...

We were well advanced back in the 80s

Brian Shanahan

ninja900 wrote: »

jimd2, you know well (or should know well, as you are encouraging us to post there) that for most if not all A&A regulars, if we posted on the Christianity forum what we really think, we'd violate the charter there.

Never mind what we think, if we post the plain unvarnished truth over there we're banned. The rules seem designed to only allow kowtowing to the idea that "christians good, everybody else the devil" and any deviation is to be harshly punished.

recedite

SebBerkovich wrote: »

in 20 years there won't be enough priests to perform all the priesting stuff

In 20 years time, it may well be possible to bring back extinct species, provided we can get some intact DNA.
So we will be able to resurrect priests and maybe keep a few in theme parks, or whatever.

SebBerkovich

recedite wrote: »

In 20 years time, it may well be possible to bring back extinct species, provided we can get some intact DNA.
So we will be able to resurrect priests and maybe keep a few in theme parks, or whatever.

Not sure it's such a good idea to keep priests in any sort of childrens attraction.

If you thought "Jurassic Park" was scary wait till you see "Alter-boy Towers"

Sarky

Relevant:

MrPudding

recedite wrote: »

In 20 years time, it may well be possible to bring back extinct species, provided we can get some intact DNA.
So we will be able to resurrect priests and maybe keep a few in theme parks, or whatever.

Hmmm, I think we could get a few DNA samples from evidence storage facilities.

MrP

Dades

Zombrex wrote: »

Out of curiousity does anyone know if there is an easy to access database of priests?

Just wondering how this question got away without the obvious cheeky suggestion. :P

Hotblack Desiato

Kivaro

recedite wrote: »

So we will be able to resurrect priests and maybe keep a few in theme parks, or whatever.

Look at you nonchalantly using that word.

68Murph68

recedite wrote: »

In 20 years time, it may well be possible to bring back extinct species, provided we can get some intact DNA.
So we will be able to resurrect priests and maybe keep a few in theme parks, or whatever.

Church is strongly opposed to cloning/stem cell research so I can't see it being a runner.

[As an aside probably only a matter of time before someone manages a clone of Jesus Christ given all the supposed relics all over the place. How much fun will that be when it happens ]

Dades

68Murph68 wrote: »

[As an aside probably only a matter of time before someone manages a clone of Jesus Christ given all the supposed relics all over the place. How much fun will that be when it happens ]

That'll be one bewildered carpenter wandering around.

Bannasidhe

Dades wrote: »

That'll be one bewildered carpenter wandering around.

That'll be one bewildered carpenter wandering around getting called a sponger crusty hippy who should get a hair cut and re-train for a job in IT.

SebBerkovich

Bannasidhe wrote: »

That'll be one bewildered carpenter wandering around getting called a sponger crusty hippy who should get a hair cut and re-train for a job in IT.

Not sure Jesus is ready for a Job in IT,
Computers don't deal too well with contradiction and i can only imagine the coding horror that would arise from the guy who inspired the most paradoxical work of fiction ever created.

lazygal

I think if Jesus did come back he'd be like 'What the ACTUAL FÛCK are you guys doing?'.

kylith

lazygal wrote: »

I think if Jesus did come back he'd be like 'What the ACTUAL FÛCK are you guys doing?'.

And they'd be like "You're taking it out of context, man", and he'd be like "Context? I wrote the fupping thing! I'll 'context' you right into the netherworld!"

Kind of want Jesus to come back now. Wouldn't it be funny if he did and he said that atheists were actually the ones who were going to go to heaven because we actually try to keep to our 'don't be a dick' rule*?

*Well, some of us anyway.

Aglomerado

lazygal wrote: »

I think if Jesus did come back he'd be like 'What the ACTUAL FÛCK are you guys doing?'.

He'd also think:

"What's with all these fúcking crosses? You people are cruel. "

(I nicked this from some comedian, can't remember which one)

username123

If Jesus came back today David Blaine would have to up his game considerably.

Bannasidhe

username123 wrote: »

If Jesus came back today David Blaine would have to up his game considerably.

If Jesus came back today he would probably be taken out* by the Swiss Guard while having the mother of all hissy fits outside the Vatican...there is no way they would let him inside.





*and I don't mean for an espresso and a cannelloni.

username123

Bannasidhe wrote: »

If Jesus came back today he would probably be taken out* by the Swiss Guard while having the mother of all hissy fits outside the Vatican...there is no way they would let him inside.





*and I don't mean for an espresso and a cannelloni.

Gotta love the Swiss Guard, all Wonka-ised!

Bannasidhe

username123 wrote: »

Gotta love the Swiss Guard, all Wonka-ised!

My brother lives in the region of Switzerland most of these guys hail from. Niece (who grew up and went to school there) and her Canadian girlfriend were recently at the wedding of a woman niece went to school with and were subjected to the most awful homophobic abuse by fellow guests. One man actually spat in her face and another very publicly threw a tray of food away because my niece had eaten from it. He said it was contaminated by her filth.

Niece has now moved to Paris...

Assholes :mad:

username123

Bannasidhe wrote: »

My brother lives in the region of Switzerland most of these guys hail from. Niece (who grew up and went to school there) and her Canadian girlfriend were recently at the wedding of a woman niece went to school with and were subjected to the most awful homophobic abuse by fellow guests. One man actually spat in her face and another very publicly threw a tray of food away because my niece had eaten from it. He said it was contaminated by her filth.

Niece has now moved to Paris...

Assholes :mad:

Religion and homophobia go hand in hand shocker. Very sad. But true.

Bannasidhe

username123 wrote: »

Religion and homophobia go hand in hand shocker. Very sad. But true.

The level of hatred personally directed at her and her OH by the parents of people she had gone to school with certainly shocked my niece. She would be a widely traveled young woman and spent many years with the VSO in 'undeveloped' countries without a hint of hassle.

I think what shocked her most was experiencing such personal animosity in a so called bastion of European 'civilisation' from people she had known all her life.

Sarky

Also relevant:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN3WwbWLY74

goose2005

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Have the GAA, the IRFU or the FAI demanded that their rules apply to golfers, cricketers, or racing drivers?

"And the LORD spake, that the ball shall not be thrown from the hand, neither the great one nor the small one, save where it is passed from the hand with a clear striking motion; for the throwing of the ball is an abomination unto My sight, and such as throw the cricket ball shall be in like manner thrown from My hand into the pit of Sheol. Thus sayeth the LORD."

legspin

goose2005 wrote: »

"And the LORD spake, that the ball shall not be thrown from the hand, neither the great one nor the small one, save where it is passed from the hand with a clear striking motion; for the throwing of the ball is an abomination unto My sight, and such as throw the cricket ball shall be in like manner thrown from My hand into the pit of Sheol. Thus sayeth the LORD."

Who's this Sheol character and is there a chance we could get in twenty overs without a downpour?

Don't really care about an answer for the first bit but if the second is yes I'm there.

Brian Shanahan

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I think what shocked her most was experiencing such personal animosity in a so called bastion of European 'civilisation' from people she had known all her life.

It's Switzerland, what do you expect?

Remember this is the country that took in stolen gold teeth from Auschwitz (among many other things stolen from Jews and other Nazi shibboleths), and still refuse to return the goods, or acknowledge any sort of responsibility.

goose2005

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I think what shocked her most was experiencing such personal animosity in a so called bastion of European 'civilisation' from people she had known all her life.

Although Switzerland is wealthy, a lot of it is arch-conservative, like the Toriest of Tory shires. Women couldn't vote at all until 1959 and didn't get full voting rights in some cantons until 1990.

recedite

Their economy is still based upon hiding huge quantities of dodgy money in their banks, no questions asked.

Gumbi

recedite wrote: »

Their economy is still based upon hiding huge quantities of dodgy money in their banks, no questions asked.

That's a bit strong, isn't it?

goose2005

goose2005 wrote: »

Although Switzerland is wealthy, a lot of it is arch-conservative, like the Toriest of Tory shires. Women couldn't vote at all until 1959 and didn't get full voting rights in some cantons until 1990.

Okayyyyy scrapping plans on moving there then, possibly... :pac:

Bannasidhe

bluewolf wrote: »

Okayyyyy scrapping plans on moving there then, possibly... :pac:

Let me put it this way...brother has a large house with heated pool, sauna and self contained apt in the basement. I can go there anytime I want for the price of a flight to Geneva. Haven't been there in years (and the last time was because he paid for my flight) because it's still Switzerland.

Zombrex

This idea that Jesus was just a mis understood nice guy is a bit silly imho

If Jesus came back I think the first thing he would do is be amazed he actually had powers.

Secondly he would be very pleases at the Catholic Church, and no doubt go straight up to the Pope and tell him to get off his chair. After all Jesus was a cult leader who wanted all his followers to worship him as a god, and to support him in his travels. He would probably find the world wide devotion from Catholics to the Catholic Church and the Pope quite pleasing, so long as they now turned this devotion to him.

I think it would be more interesting to see how the Pope and the other bishops would feel. They don't strike me as all that interested in succeeding power.

jank

username123 wrote: »

Religion and homophobia go hand in hand shocker. Very sad. But true.

I wouldn't call the Swiss religious. Would you call Russians religious yet they are extremely anti gay. Correlation does not imply causation.

Gumbi

jank wrote: »

I wouldn't call the Swiss religious. Would you call Russians religious yet they are extremely anti gay. Correlation does not imply causation.

Are you trolling? ^^

Sarky

Oh that's just jank, don't mind him.

SebBerkovich

jank wrote: »

I wouldn't call the Swiss religious. Would you call Russians religious yet they are extremely anti gay. Correlation does not imply causation.

only about 13% of russians would identify as Atheist, so... yeah i'd call them religious.

I'm also pretty sure Pussy Riot would have a thing or two to say about how the Religious control of russians....

jank

recedite wrote: »

Their economy is still based upon hiding huge quantities of dodgy money in their banks, no questions asked.

Eh no it's not.

I'm quite amused at all this group faux outrage against the Swiss all because a few of them like to dress up in yellow and blue costumes and work in the Vatican.