GEM - Access to Funding Campaign 2013

diverboy83

I can answer points 8 and 9 as I asked the admissions officer these same questions at the open day: when GEM first came on stream, the Colleges had a loose working arrangement with the banks so that students could apply for loans without being tied to one bank or college. However, due to defaults i.e. graduates moving abroad and not repaying the loans, or falling into arrears, the Colleges broke away from this arrangement and struck up "special relations" with specific banks which would work just with their students. RCSI feels that collective arrangements with other colleges vis-a-vis the banks disadvantages their students.

I'm paraphrasing here, but that's the gist. Also, I wrote to the Deans of all the Medical Colleges asking some of these questions. No reply. The more people that write, the more chance there is that they might sit up and take notice; I honestly don't think that they fully realise the extent of the situation.

nomoreexams

Sent a few emails off expressing the urgency and that in the absence of an announcement of fees ill be putting UCD down as first preference.

pc11

FYI I called UL today. They confirmed that GEM fees will not go up this year. I asked when this was decided and was told the Admissions office was informed of this decision on June 7th, which was quite a while ago. UCD have also had their fees up since at least last week.

RCSI should be ashamed.

pc11

nomoreexams wrote: »

Sent a few emails off expressing the urgency and that in the absence of an announcement of fees ill be putting UCD down as first preference.

Can I ask who did you email? What did you say to them? I think I'll do the same.

nomoreexams

pc11 wrote: »

Can I ask who did you email? What did you say to them? I think I'll do the same.

I emailed Celeste Golden (got an out of office reply) and took a stab at the vice dean for student affairs Orna Tighe (not sure if she's appropriate but I figured she may forward it to someone appropriate) not sure if we can post email addresses up?? They're on the RCSI website though. I'm going to send a few more to anyone that looks like they might be helpful in any way. It's crazy that this is what it takes to get a move under them. It's certainly making me slightly more biased towards ucd.

I called the admin office and they advised me that they don't see fees increasing drastically. But what's drastically, €500....€1,000??? Who knows.

Sorry, forgot to say what I said- I'm on the iPhone so everytime i try to copy and paste my sausage fingers muddle the buttons- laid out change of mind dates, explained the substantial difference in fees and that it's unfair to ask us to blindly chose RCSI without any indication of fees. Asked were they negotiating with the bank to pay the excess fees required by RCSI in comparison to UCD and were they looking to decrease the fees to reflect those of the other 3 colleges?

Hypnos

nomoreexams wrote: »

I emailed Celeste Golden (got an out of office reply) and took a stab at the vice dean for student affairs Orna Tighe (not sure if she's appropriate but I figured she may forward it to someone appropriate) not sure if we can post email addresses up?? They're on the RCSI website though. I'm going to send a few more to anyone that looks like they might be helpful in any way. It's crazy that this is what it takes to get a move under them. It's certainly making me slightly more biased towards ucd.

I called the admin office and they advised me that they don't see fees increasing drastically. But what's drastically, €500....€1,000??? Who knows.

Funnily enough, yeh she's back Thrusday. Called RCSI admissions office this morning. She's not back till then apparently.

nomoreexams

Hypnos wrote: »

Funnily enough, yeh she's back Thrusday. Called RCSI admissions office this morning. She's not back till then apparently.

I bet they hate us. Have many of you been ringing in? I've been hounding them a little bit. It's their own fault if they just announced the fees they'd have saved themselves the aggro.

pc11

nomoreexams wrote: »

I emailed Celeste Golden (got an out of office reply) and took a stab at the vice dean for student affairs Orna Tighe (not sure if she's appropriate but I figured she may forward it to someone appropriate) not sure if we can post email addresses up?? They're on the RCSI website though. I'm going to send a few more to anyone that looks like they might be helpful in any way. It's crazy that this is what it takes to get a move under them. It's certainly making me slightly more biased towards ucd.

I called the admin office and they advised me that they don't see fees increasing drastically. But what's drastically, €500....€1,000??? Who knows.

Sorry, forgot to say what I said- I'm on the iPhone so everytime i try to copy and paste my sausage fingers muddle the buttons- laid out change of mind dates, explained the substantial difference in fees and that it's unfair to ask us to blindly chose RCSI without any indication of fees. Asked were they negotiating with the bank to pay the excess fees required by RCSI in comparison to UCD and were they looking to decrease the fees to reflect those of the other 3 colleges?

Good man.

It's not just the increase itself, it's also the trend. The fees have gone up pretty regularly the last 2/3 years by about 1K per annum. The fact that UCD and UL have not raised them this year is encouraging in that it shows it's not a done deal and that they can and will pause the increases. Remember, the BOI loan will not go up with the raises each year so any future raises will have to be paid by us out of our own funds somehow.

nomoreexams

pc11 wrote: »

Good man.

It's not just the increase itself, it's also the trend. The fees have gone up pretty regularly the last 2/3 years by about 1K per annum. The fact that UCD and UL have not raised them this year is encouraging in that it shows it's not a done deal and that they can and will pause the increases. Remember, the BOI loan will not go up with the raises each year so any future raises will have to be paid by us out of our own funds somehow.

The bank not covering it is exactly what I'm worried about if there's a massive hike!

At least we're raising the issue with them. It's hard for them to ignore it and not justify it if enough of us continue to ask questions.

pc11

nomoreexams wrote: »

The bank not covering it is exactly what I'm worried about if there's a massive hike!

At least we're raising the issue with them. It's hard for them to ignore it and not justify it if enough of us continue to ask questions.

Exactly. In my own spreadsheet plans I have assumed a price rise of 1K every year which totals 6K extra expense over the 4 years. (Don't make the silly mistake I made and put down 3K total!). I also assumed that the UCD/RCSI differential would stay the same at 2K per annum.

As we know, the BOI loan amount will probably be the UCD fees only and any RCSI extra will have to be funded by us. That implies a total RCSI premium of 8K (ignoring some savings in RCSI with the catering facilities, laptop and so on.)

So, potentially, the RCSI premium that we have to self-fund is ~14K!!

Let us know any response you get and I'll do likewise.

nomoreexams

pc11 wrote: »

Exactly. In my own spreadsheet plans I have assumed a price rise of 1K every year which totals 6K extra expense over the 4 years. (Don't make the silly mistake I made and put down 3K total!). I also assumed that the UCD/RCSI differential would stay the same at 2K per annum.

As we know, the BOI loan amount will probably be the UCD fees only and any RCSI extra will have to be funded by us. That implies a total RCSI premium of 8K (ignoring some savings in RCSI with the catering facilities, laptop and so on.)

So, potentially, the RCSI premium that we have to self-fund is ~14K!!

Let us know any response you get and I'll do likewise.

14k .... That's horrendous, particularly since I have next to no savings!! UCD is looking more and more attractive, not that it's lesser figure is any easier to swallow either.

pc11

nomoreexams wrote: »

14k .... That's horrendous, particularly since I have next to no savings!! UCD is looking more and more attractive, not that it's lesser figure is any easier to swallow either.

Remember that as UCD are not going up this year, if RCSI does go up the premium (and self-funding requirement) will be even more than 14K. This is before eating and living expenses.

I also take it that the BOI loan will definitely not go up to accommodate RCSI either.

F*ck, this is a problem alright.

nomoreexams

diverboy83 wrote: »

Just to ask that if anyone is voting 'no' in this poll, could they please put up a post with their reasoning? That way we will have input from across the spectrum on this.

On the conversation with the HEA - fair play to them indeed. I understand that the Sunday Business Post might be running an article on our issue this Sunday and that their correspondent has been in contact with the med schools.

For me, the issue of RCSI fees was one of the biggest determining factors in my decision. It will be a struggle to make ends meet as it is without the added pressure of coming up with an unknown extra amount every year.

Was there an article in the Sunday Business Post about it? I did a quick website search, they've done a few articles about med and cao over the past few years but couldn't see anything recent. I'm also too stingy to pay the subscription so that's possibly why I couldn't see it if it was there.

diverboy83

SBP didn't run the piece. Argh. Will keep trying the other Health and Education Correspondents.

In other news, I've been in touch with the Medical Council and they were "very interested" to hear of this issue and will be back in touch next week when they look into it a bit more...

pc11

diverboy83 wrote: »

SBP didn't run the piece. Argh. Will keep trying the other Health and Education Correspondents.

In other news, I've been in touch with the Medical Council and they were "very interested" to hear of this issue and will be back in touch next week when they look into it a bit more...

I sent a detailed email to the editor of the Irish Medical Times 2 days ago but I've had no reply at all, very disappointing. I made it clear we were facing a deadline of July 1st and that RCSI were not being forthcoming and described the matter as urgent.

pc11

See the UCD vs RCSI thread for vital info on RCSI fees - they're not going up this year,

diverboy83

I've received a note from my TD to say that they put down a PQ on the issue in addition to requesting that the matter be taken up by the Chair of the Committee on Education. They also said that Minister Reilly has forwarded a note to Minister Quinn asking him to consider the issue. Minister Quinn has, apparently, asked the relevant Division in his Department to consider and formulate a response.

letsdothis

Bit more information here on fees for 2013/4. Only UCD haven't confirmed:
http://www.imt.ie/news/latest-news/2013/07/gem-tuition-fee-e16940.html

pc11

letsdothis wrote: »

Bit more information here on fees for 2013/4. Only UCD haven't confirmed:
http://www.imt.ie/news/latest-news/2013/07/gem-tuition-fee-e16940.html

I believe it was my emails to the IMT that prompted that piece. I was originally asking them to press RCSI for their fees but they didn't get back to me in time. I then gave them some general info on fees and loans.

Re. the UCD fees, according to this page UCD confirmed their fees some weeks ago:
http://www.ucd.ie/registry/adminservices/fees/undergraduate2013.html

so I'm not sure what to make of the IMT story on that point.

EDIT: I see the RCSi fees are on their website now, confirming what they told me on the phone:
http://www.rcsi.ie/index.jsp?a=746&n=202&p=112

No increase this year which is very welcome.

beardedmaster

Was there ever any further update in this? Not with the RCSI fees, but rather funding in general.

pc11

Alright chief, long time no chat.

I'm not aware of any changes or updates, but I haven't been following much this year. I got the loan ok last September, I can give some info on that if it helps.

I guess the big question is whether fees will go up this year, they didn't last year. It would be a major boost to my finances if they stay the same for a year or 2.

What's your story? Where are you at?

beardedmaster

Starting in UCD in September hopefully, using my score from 2013.
Just was seeing what the story was with loans on AIB/BOI, and if there were any changes to the fees or loans in general, governmental or otherwise.
Also, I'm seeing if I could get a loan for the fees for 2nd, 3rd and 4th year, and fund 1st year myself - I can't see any reason why not.

pc11

beardedmaster wrote: »

Starting in UCD in September hopefully, using my score from 2013.
Just was seeing what the story was with loans on AIB/BOI, and if there were any changes to the fees or loans in general, governmental or otherwise.
Also, I'm seeing if I could get a loan for the fees for 2nd, 3rd and 4th year, and fund 1st year myself - I can't see any reason why not.

Great, good luck with that.

There's no viable option with AIB, so it's BOI only. Based on lat year, it's worth making contact ahead of time, but son't be surprised to find someone new in BOI handling the loans at any time and they will not be very up on the details.

I'm guessing you may need to get the loan approval in first year and just not draw it down. They are so finicky that I can imagine they would want you to apply at offer time. I'm pretty sure you can do a partial draw down, or at worst just repay the first year right away from your own funds.

If you meet the criteria and have no distasters in your history, you'll definitely get the BOI loan, the only question is whether they will require a guarantor. 99% will need one but I know for a fact some can get away without it.

The key criteria are: Irish resident for 10+ years, same for guarantor. Guarantor must be blood relative. Thay told me they look favourably on science graduates and BOI customers also. Don't expect the loan approval in a hurry and not before you have to accept the offer.

beardedmaster

pc11 wrote: »

The key criteria are: Irish resident for 10+ years, same for guarantor. Guarantor must be blood relative. Thay told me they look favourably on science graduates and BOI customers also. Don't expect the loan approval in a hurry and not before you have to accept the offer.

Irish resident, Irish blood relative guarantor, BOI customer and science graduate - all those boxes ticked!

I'll get onto them when the exams finish, and ask them specifically about loaning 3 years worth of fees.
Thanks for the info.

MathsMedMixed

beardedmaster wrote: »

Also, I'm seeing if I could get a loan for the fees for 2nd, 3rd and 4th year, and fund 1st year myself - I can't see any reason why not.

It'd be great if one can do this.

pc11 wrote: »

I'm guessing you may need to get the loan approval in first year and just not draw it down. They are so finicky that I can imagine they would want you to apply at offer time. I'm pretty sure you can do a partial draw down, or at worst just repay the first year right away from your own funds.

If one can decide how much money to be transferred at an instant as in a partial draw down, it'd be a good too. Hopefully it's part of BOI T & C.

letsdothis

MathsMedMixed wrote: »

It'd be great if one can do this.




If one can decide how much money to be transferred at an instant as in a partial draw down, it'd be a good too. Hopefully it's part of BOI T & C.

Anyone have any experience in doing this? I don't figure I'll need the full amount each year and don't want to take out loans I don't need.

pc11

letsdothis wrote: »

Anyone have any experience in doing this? I don't figure I'll need the full amount each year and don't want to take out loans I don't need.

As far as I remember, you must draw down all or nothing each year. Remember it's fees only. At worst you can just repay part of it at any time, that's no problem.

Here is the application form from BOI with the terms and conditions, it may be useful to read to prepare.