Raw feeding & vegetarian

mel.b

Next week I'll be bringing my new Alaskan Malamute puppy home He'll be 13 weeks and is currently on a mixture of raw mince, fish and pellets. His breeder is going to talk to me more about his raw diet and also give me a recipe book.

I'm a vegetarian and have been for most of my life - it's nothing ethical, I just can't stand the taste of meat and also struggle going into butchers because of the smell. However I realise that a raw diet is the best thing for my pup.

There is no way I am going to be able to cope with organs etc in their natural state. Big bones etc would be ok. Could my dog have a minced diet of raw meet during the week and then meaty bones on the weekends? Would that satisfy the requirement for bone in his diet? I also don't currently have a lot of freezer storage space, so that is an issue for bones also.

Also when I go into the butchers, what exactly should I ask for?

Hooked

Howdy Mel.b

There's a great thread on all things raw a few pages back...

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2056750085/1

We now feed our husky raw in the evenings with kibble in the mornings. Bones are fed every few days, varying from meaty brisket (red meat) bones, to chicken legs, wings and carcasses.

Like you, I thought I'd churn at the thought of preparing meals, and not being a fish eater. You should see me dice a cows heart or chop raw fish now!

There's a great website and Facebook page for 'dogs first' that has a fantastic online recipe and feed guide.

http://dogsfirst.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Raw-Dog-Food-Why-and-How.pdf

You're meant to feed between 2-3% of the dogs weight - but I'm not sure about puppies, as we switched to raw when Hugo was 2.

Organ meat should make up about 10% of the meal. There's a list on dogsfirst as to what veggies and herbs are advised and you can order from them.

Personally, I make up a batch of chicken, fish, veg, eggs, mince and brown rice. Add salmon oil, a few herbs and divide into 300gsm portions and wrap and feed the bones every 3-4 days. I'm buying in the supermarket/butchers - for now.

I've a tiny freezer at the base of my fridge and as I don't eat processed frozen foods, etc... The freezer is pretty much packed with just the dogs meals. I freeze the heart, salmon and other organ meats of bones I come across individually (organ meats are diced into 30-40gsm balls).

Make sure and get some pics up ASAP. If we weren't already waiting on Husky no 2, we'd deffo be in the market for a big olde Mal!

mel.b

Thanks hooked

When you say you make up a batch, do you mean that the food is minced? There is no way in this world I would be able to handle chopping up liver, heart etc, but if the butcher could mince it for me then I'd be ok.

From my reading, puppies should be feed at 2 - 3% of their adult weight.

Yep I liked the dogs first page over the weekend after seeing it mentioned on here.

Do meany butchers have chicken carcasses etc? I know getting a big meaty bone shouldn't be a problem.

Here's a pic of him

tk123

mel.b wrote: »

Could my dog have a minced diet of raw meet during the week and then meaty bones on the weekends? Would that satisfy the requirement for bone in his diet?

Do you have a mincer? Don't just feed the pup minced beef because it's way to fatty. If you can afford it and don't have a mincer you could try graw chubbs (from dogsfirst.ie) or price choice blocks (pet stop stock them ) - these are already minced and there's no guess work involved. You can start off on the mince and once you get used to it and are happy the pup is ok on it get more adventurous adding bones, organ etc. I started out mincing chicken legs for a few months then started feeding them bone in.
We'll be getting a new pup in a couple of months and I'm planning on mincing her food for the first month or so - the big boy is currently on duck necks and veg so I'll be mincing the necks and adding the veg.
Just a heads up - a lot of butchers are clueless on feeding dogs raw so you may get conflicting information from them and dog owners - obviously we're the experts lol

muddypaws

raw is great, but if you are really uncomfortable about feeding it, then a good quality kibble will be fine, lots of northern breeds are fed on a 'processed' diet and live long, healthy lives.

endacl

Hi OP. With respect, if you are aware of your own discomfort handling and preparing meat, why decide to take on a pretty large (mostly) carnivore? A malamut is a big dog, with a big appetite, and a physiology that has evolved to thrive on mostly meat. I know the breed will adapt to diet in the same way it's adjusted to climate. Not much husky weather in Ireland. All the same though, big dogs do like their grub.

endacl

^^

Serious question. I'm honestly not having a dig at you. Good luck with the new dog.

Hooked

muddypaws wrote: »

raw is great, but if you are really uncomfortable about feeding it, then a good quality kibble will be fine, lots of northern breeds are fed on a 'processed' diet and live long, healthy lives.

Having fed good quality kibble for almost 2 years and now (the last 3-4 months raw) there's no comparison.

Sure, they'll still live long healthy lives. But a raw diet has changed my lads coat, condition, teeth and (ahem) poos considerably!

Hooked

endacl wrote: »

Hi OP. With respect, if you are aware of your own discomfort handling and preparing meat, why decide to take on a pretty large (mostly) carnivore? A malamut is a big dog, with a big appetite, and a physiology that has evolved to thrive on mostly meat. I know the breed will adapt to diet in the same way it's adjusted to climate. Not much husky weather in Ireland. All the same though, big dogs do like their grub.

If Mals are anything like their Siberian cousins, you'd be surprised how little they eat for the size of them! I want keen on handling offal or fish, but three months in - its like I'm a butcher/fishmonger. When needs must!

endacl

Hooked wrote: »

If Mals are anything like their Siberian cousins, you'd be surprised how little they eat for the size of them! I want keen on handling offal or fish, but three months in - its like I'm a butcher/fishmonger. When needs must!

Grin and bear it, eh? Lovely looking dog. Best of luck.

orchidsrpretty

I am vegetarian too and I feed my dog raw and leave kibble in her bowl for when she gets peckish.

Everything about meat makes me want to puke! When handling the meat I wear gloves and it helps a bit. I usually make up batches for 2-3 weeks so I dont have to do it that often. I put the food in sandwich bags so they dont take up that much room in the freezer!

It has worked wonders for my dog! When I got her(rescue dog) she was really underweight, had stinking breath and seemed reluctant to eat just kibble no matter which one I tried or what juice I put into it. Now she is well on the way to putting weight on and her breath smells normal.

mel.b

endacl wrote: »

Hi OP. With respect, if you are aware of your own discomfort handling and preparing meat, why decide to take on a pretty large (mostly) carnivore? A malamut is a big dog, with a big appetite, and a physiology that has evolved to thrive on mostly meat. I know the breed will adapt to diet in the same way it's adjusted to climate. Not much husky weather in Ireland. All the same though, big dogs do like their grub.

He will be my third Mal, but i'd never heard of feeding a raw diet until fairly recently and i want to do whats best for my dog.

Hooked wrote: »

If Mals are anything like their Siberian cousins, you'd be surprised how little they eat for the size of them! I want keen on handling offal or fish, but three months in - its like I'm a butcher/fishmonger. When needs must!

Yep, for their size they also don't each much. When i was in Australia, i was dog sitting my sisters Dalmation, along with having my Mal and i was feeding them the same amount of food. The Dalmation started loosing weight...i was accidentaly starving the poor thing and had to double his feeds in comparision to my girl.

orchidsrpretty wrote: »

I am vegetarian too and I feed my dog raw and leave kibble in her bowl for when she gets peckish.

Everything about meat makes me want to puke! When handling the meat I wear gloves and it helps a bit. I usually make up batches for 2-3 weeks so I dont have to do it that often. I put the food in sandwich bags so they dont take up that much room in the freezer!

It has worked wonders for my dog! When I got her(rescue dog) she was really underweight, had stinking breath and seemed reluctant to eat just kibble no matter which one I tried or what juice I put into it. Now she is well on the way to putting weight on and her breath smells normal.

Good idea about the gloves. What / how do you make up your batches? Also glad to hear i'm not the only one in this situation

Another thing i've been wondering is what do you do if your dog needs to be boarded at kennels and you feed primarily raw?

Finally, i'm interested to read that everyone hear also gives their dogs kibble along with raw. From the reading i have done online you shouldn't do this, or are these people just real raw 'zealots' and there is a happy middle somewhere?

Hooked

mel.b wrote: »

He will be my third Mal, but i'd never heard of feeding a raw diet until fairly recently and i want to do whats best for my dog.

Good idea about the gloves. What / how do you make up your batches? Also glad to hear i'm not the only one in this situation

Another thing i've been wondering is what do you do if your dog needs to be boarded at kennels and you feed primarily raw?

Finally, i'm interested to read that everyone hear also gives their dogs kibble along with raw. From the reading i have done online you shouldn't do this, or are these people just real raw 'zealots' and there is a happy middle somewhere?

I make up the batches using cling film and take away containers (2 per pack).

I'd imagine boarders would have a freezer and you could give them enough to last.

Kibble and raw should never be fed 'together' as in - in the same meal as they've different digestion rates. Feeding both at separate meal times does our Husky no harm at all.

borderlinemeath

mel.b wrote: »

Good idea about the gloves. What / how do you make up your batches? Also glad to hear i'm not the only one in this situation

I wear gloves when I'm handling offal, I can tolerate the poultry and the fish but even sometimes I wish I had a face mask for the offal. And I'm a meat eater.
I tend to just defrost enough for a few days for my pair. I make up batches of spud/veg as filler, usually once a week and divide it into portions so it's easy to just dollop into the bowl.

Another thing i've been wondering is what do you do if your dog needs to be boarded at kennels and you feed primarily raw?

You should be able to find a kennels that you can bring your food to. The only drawback is if you're going for 2 weeks etc and they don't have freezer space. But there are places that will do it, you just need to go looking.

Finally, i'm interested to read that everyone hear also gives their dogs kibble along with raw. From the reading i have done online you shouldn't do this, or are these people just real raw 'zealots' and there is a happy middle somewhere?

You shouldn't feed the kibble at the same time as the raw as the dogs stomach digest the food differently, so if the two are in the same meal then the dog may get a upset stomach. Different meals at different times of the day should be fine though.

toadfly

I always use gloves when dividing up Lexis food for freezing. Doesnt bother me to handle the meat but just prefer to wear gloves. I usually buy enough for 10 days as thats all my little freezer can take but make veg for three weeks at a time because I hate doing that part! I use sandwich bags too for the meat but cling film for veg.

I have been lucky with where I leave my dog. I leave her in home boarding as much as possible, have one near Dublin airport and one in Mayo/Galway! When I have to leave her in kennels its never more than 2 nights and the fridge is fine then. The place I leave her near Dublin feeds raw too and has a chest freezer.

mel.b

Thanks everyone i've probably been reading too much of the rawfeeding yahoo group. They advocate no kibble, no veg, no rice etc at all.

Still not sure exactly what i ask the butcher for- offcuts? Scraps? Bones? All of the above?

tk123

Keep it simple and start with chicken legs/wings

mel.b

tk123 wrote: »

Keep it simple and start with chicken legs/wings

He's already on mince (not sure what type) and tuna, so do i still need to start with chicken legs /wings

muddypaws

mel.b wrote: »

Another thing i've been wondering is what do you do if your dog needs to be boarded at kennels and you feed primarily raw?

Finally, i'm interested to read that everyone hear also gives their dogs kibble along with raw. From the reading i have done online you shouldn't do this, or are these people just real raw 'zealots' and there is a happy middle somewhere?

A lot of people that have northern breeds and work them feed a mix of raw and kibble, for the simple fact that if they go away to rallies, races etc, they can't always carry and store enough raw food with them. They prefer to get the dog used to eating kibble at home, where they feel comfortable, and then they can use it when they need to, same as if they have to board them and the kennel can't/won't feed raw. Most of the kennels that race in the big sled dog races feed kibble with meat (not necessarily raw meat) because of the transportation, they can arrange for food to be dropped along the trail at the various stops.

bluecherry74

I'm a bit squeamish around raw meat too, OP. At least I was until I started feeding raw. You just sort of get used to it after a while. Another poster mentioned gloves and I find them a godsend. You can get the catering type ones in Euro shops, they only cost a Euro or two for a pack of 200 gloves.

I'd also recommend starting with something easy like chicken legs and gRAW. Chicken legs are dead easy as there's no chopping required, you just unwrap and hand it to your dog. Work out what size pieces is 30% - 40% of his daily needs and give him that for breakfast. Then for dinner stick to something like gRAW for the time being. It has meat/fish, offal and veg all mixed together and the chubbs are quite easy to handle. A big bone once or twice a week is also easy to do.

After a few weeks when you've built up a bit of mental immunity, you can start trying other meats that might require a bit more prep work. The most important thing is that your dog gets a good variety of meat and fish, a variety of offal (about 10% of his diet) and a variety of bones (chicken or fish bones that he can eat and big meaty bones to gnaw on). If you're like me, in a few months you'll be racing through Tesco to the discount shelf to see what bargains you can get.

I'm lucky enough that the kennels I use have the space and willingness to feed raw for me, but it's not the end of the world if you have to feed canned or dried food for a couple of weeks. Just make sure to include it in his diet for a week or so before you go away so that the change isn't a complete shock to his system.

orchidsrpretty

I would get all the meat into a big container and kind of mush it all together. I then just weigh out the portions and put them into sandwich bag and pop them in the freezer.

The items you would want if you are squeamish like me and wouldn't like the idea of meat touching your kitchen utensils is a separate chopping board, knife, weighing scales and a large mixing bowl(if you plan on making big batches).
Its amazing how desensitized you become to handling meat. I have been a veggie since I was about 5 so really had no interaction with meat growing up, the first couple of times handling the meat was pretty tough as I could just visualize what I was touching but now I just get on with and don't think too much about what I am touching:)

Best of luck with the raw feeding, I don't follow exactly what the diets are regarding what meat to give as I feed her kibble too, she is just so skinny and such a bad eater that I had no other choice than to bulk out her diet with raw meat.