SUSI- Independent Mature Student

sunflowa

I'm starting to worry a little about being able to prove that I am indeed an independent mature student.

Where I've been living (In my Aunt's holiday home rent free) since last year I have very little post for. I have some letters from the social welfare services for June 2012, July 2012 and nothing then until March 2013. The house I live in is quite near my parent's house so I never bothered changing my address on things. I just picked up my post every now and then. I was never quite sure whether I would move away or not and didn't want to confuse things with lots of change of address'.

What should I do? Will these letters from the social welfare be enough. They have been sending me post all through as I was working casually and needed to send those little forms in every week, maybe they will write me a letter saying this? I will hopefully be getting BTEA but just need my fees covered. I will never be ble to afford college otherwise

Any advise would be really appreciated!

SuSi: Reps

Hi Sunflowa,

In order to prove independent residency you need to have documentation from October 2012 to a month prior to receiving the checklist. You will need documents like utility bills and lease agreements. You need to prove that you have been supporting yourself.

Are any of the utility bills in your name?

Kind regards,
Aoife,
SuSi HelpDesk.

sunflowa

The utility bills are not in my name, I just contribute towards them!

Oh no this is AWFUL if I don't get my fees covered with a grant I might have to wait until next year

If only I'd known

SuSi: Reps

Hi Sunflowa,

If you can't prove independent residency then you can still apply as a dependent student. This would mean that your parent’s income will be means tested.

Also if this is your first time entering third level education you could be entitled to the Free Fee scheme. Every Irish citizen is entitled to receive their fees paid for once while attending third level education.

I hope this information helps.

Kind regards,
Aoife,
SuSi HelpDesk.

Tom_Cruise

SuSi: Reps wrote: »

Hi Sunflowa,

If you can't prove independent residency then you can still apply as a dependent student. This would mean that your parent’s income will be means tested.

Also if this is your first time entering third level education you could be entitled to the Free Fee scheme. Every Irish citizen is entitled to receive their fees paid for once while attending third level education.

I hope this information helps.

Kind regards,
Aoife,
SuSi HelpDesk.

Could you please elaborate on this?

Is this only for independent students?

longhalloween

Does it have to be dated Oct 2012? I'm in a similar situation and I only have stuff from last August.

SuSi: Reps

Hi Tom Cruise,

If you're referring to the Free Fee Scheme section, then no, that is not relevant to only Independent students. That scheme is available to all Irish Citizens. If you would like further clarification or advice, please let me know.

Hi Longhalloween,

Bills have to be dated in October, are at least cover the October period. Lease agreements etc don't have to be dated from October but October 2012 has to be covered in the period of the lease etc.

I hope this helps, if you would like any further information please don't hesitate to ask. The option to private mail me is also available.

Kind regards,
Aoife,
SuSi HelpDesk.

Kerry3333

Hi Aoife

So my situation is this. I have applied as a mature student and got a place in a Third Level College starting in September. I am on Jobseekers Allowance and hope to get BTEA in September. I have applied for the grant but am aware that I can not get both BTEA and the Maintenance Grant So am hoping I will get the fees paid. I got a letter recently from SUSI requesting documentation but I am unsure of the part 'Evidence of Independent Residency from the October prior to entering Higher Education' Now see I thought that would be October 2012 as I will be entering Higher Education this year, but I did a PLC Level 5 Fetac Course in 2009/2010 and received the Maintenance Grant and BTEA. (I think the Grant was around €3,400 for the year) But I think I applied as a dependent student and was assessed on my parents income at that time (Im not sure of this because I was renting before and after the course) but my circumstances have changed and I am now not living at home for years. I was living in Private Rented Accommodation last year and have the evidence to prove this. So can I apply as an Independent Mature Student as I will be progressing and I have never entered a Third Level Course before? I applied to SUSI as an Independent Mature Student because that's what I thought I was. Can you clear things up for me please.
I am 24 since April of this year.

Any information/advice will be appreciated. Thanks

paperclip2

@ Kerry3333
From what you've posted it looks as if you are an Independent mature candidate but hopefully SUSI will confirm this.
You can use a utility bill in your name or a lease agreement covering Oct 2012 to prove independent residence as far as I know.

SuSi: Reps

Hi Kerry3333,

Thank you for your query.

You will need to supply independent residence from October 2012. The PLC course would be considered Further Education, so they are not referring to this.

Just to reassure you, when you enter college you must remain in the status you entered college for the duration of your studies. This can only be changed if you have a three year gap. You have had a three year gap so changing your status is allowed.

You will be fine to proceed as you are.

I hope this information helps.

Kind regards,
Aoife,
SuSi HelpDesk.

Kerry3333

Ok that's great, Thanks so much for the replies.

SuSi: Reps

You're very welcome Kerry3333.

If you have any other queries please feel free to contact us here. The option to private mail is also available.

Kind regards,
Aoife,
SuSi HelpDesk.

WildRosie

SuSi: Reps wrote: »

when you enter college you must remain in the status you entered college for the duration of your studies. This can only be changed if you have a three year gap.

Hi Aoife,
Can I ask you a question about this please? Does this mean that a student who applies in year 1 as a dependent student and then moves to go to college is assessed as dependent for the length of their course? If so, what about an independent mature student who applies in year 1 and is successful but then decides to move home in year 2? Do they hold this status for the duration of their course as the dependent student in my example above does? Thanks!

SuSi: Reps

WildRosie wrote: »

Hi Aoife,
Can I ask you a question about this please? Does this mean that a student who applies in year 1 as a dependent student and then moves to go to college is assessed as dependent for the length of their course? If so, what about an independent mature student who applies in year 1 and is successful but then decides to move home in year 2? Do they hold this status for the duration of their course as the dependent student in my example above does? Thanks!

Hi WildRosie,

Thanks for your query.

That would be the case for the dependent student. Once they start in year 1 as an Independent student, they would remain a dependent student for the duration of their course.

The Independent mature student who moves home would have to apply as dependent student for the following year. They would have to notify us of a change of circumstance as they would not be able to supply evidence of independent residence when submitting their documentation.

I hope this answers your query and should you require any further information, please don't hesitate to contact us.

Kind regards,
Shane,
SuSi Support

Annasopra

SuSi: Reps wrote: »

Hi WildRosie,

Thanks for your query.

That would be the case for the dependent student. Once they start in year 1 as an Independent student, they would remain a dependent student for the duration of their course.

The Independent mature student who moves home would have to apply as dependent student for the following year. They would have to notify us of a change of circumstance as they would not be able to supply evidence of independent residence when submitting their documentation.

I hope this answers your query and should you require any further information, please don't hesitate to contact us.

Kind regards,
Shane,
SuSi Support

Really? I don't fully understand what you are saying there actually. My understanding is that

A: a dependent student remains classed as "dependent" for the duration of their studies unless their is a 3 year gap and they reenter the system

B: an independent student remains classed as "independent" for the duration of their studies unless their is a 3 year gap and they reenter the system after moving in with their parents

Or am I reading the rules wrong?

http://www.susi.ie/Susi/media/susi/SI-159-of-2013-Student-Grant-Scheme-2013_Final.pdf?ext=.pdf

Classes of applicant.
13. (1) For the purposes of this Scheme there shall be two classes of applicant as follows—
(a) independent student; and
(b) dependent student.
(2) An applicant’s class is defined at their first point of entry to an approved post leaving certificate course or an approved higher education course or at their point of re-entry to such an approved course and will continue to apply for the duration of their studies.

SuSi: Reps

mango salsa wrote: »

Really? I don't fully understand what you are saying there actually. My understanding is that

A: a dependent student remains classed as "dependent" for the duration of their studies unless their is a 3 year gap and they reenter the system

B: an independent student remains classed as "independent" for the duration of their studies unless their is a 3 year gap and they reenter the system after moving in with their parents

Or am I reading the rules wrong?

http://www.susi.ie/Susi/media/susi/SI-159-of-2013-Student-Grant-Scheme-2013_Final.pdf?ext=.pdf[/QUOTE]


Hi MangoSalsa,

Just to clarify what that section means, please see below.

If you commenced your undergraduate course aged under 23 you are automatically a dependent student. If you proceed directly on completion of your course to a post grad regardless of your age, you are still a dependent student. However, if there is a three year gap since you graduated and you are now over 23 (Mature Student), you will be classified as mature independent.

If you start off as over 23 mature independent and remain independent, this status won’t change. However, if you are over 23 and have moved home you are a mature dependent student.

I hope this helps and should you have any further queries, please don’t hesitate to contact us.

Kind regards,
Shane,
SuSi Support

Annasopra

Hi Shane

Could you clarify this more.

You seem to be suggesting that for example a student who is 26 and gets a grant based on his status as an independent mature student and then in year 2 moves home that his status will then have to change to independent. But the rules state very clearly;

An applicant’s class is defined at their first point of entry to an approved post leaving certificate course or an approved higher education course or at their point of re-entry to such an approved course and will continue to apply for the duration of their studies.

Classes of applicant.
13. (1) For the purposes of this Scheme there shall be two classes of applicant as follows—
(a) independent student; and
(b) dependent student.
(2) An applicant’s class is defined at their first point of entry to an approved post leaving certificate course or an approved higher education course or at their point of re-entry to such an approved course and will continue to apply for the duration of their studies.

dspark83

Hi, I am wondering if somebody can answer my question.

I am waiting for a social welfare statement and my birth certificate to arrive before I forward any documentation to SUSI, however the due date for returning all this is tomorrow. What would be the better option? Send in what I have or wait until i receive the required documents, (which means i will miss the deadline.)

Help would be greatly appreciated.

Dspark.

WildRosie

mango salsa wrote: »

Hi Shane

Could you clarify this more.

You seem to be suggesting that for example a student who is 26 and gets a grant based on his status as an independent mature student and then in year 2 moves home that his status will then have to change to independent. But the rules state very clearly;

An applicant’s class is defined at their first point of entry to an approved post leaving certificate course or an approved higher education course or at their point of re-entry to such an approved course and will continue to apply for the duration of their studies.

mango salsa, I think your logical questions must have been too much for SUSI as their account seems to be closed now

Annasopra

WildRosie wrote: »

mango salsa, I think your logical questions must have been too much for SUSI as their account seems to be closed now

Unfortunately it seems they are not answering further queries here.

April O Neill

Hi,

Just a quick q on independent mature student status.

Does the period one needs to prove go from the October of the year before your course begins to the date you receive the letter requesting documentation? Just up until that date? I read that elsewhere in this forum but am not sure if it's true. Do you need to account for the time from when the documentation letter is sent out up to the course beginning? I have just applied for a fee grant.

Many thanks.

WildRosie

I was just asked for proof for the month of October i.e. just October 2012 but they seem to ask different people for different things. It'll say exactly what they're looking for in the letter.

April O Neill

WildRosie wrote: »

I was just asked for proof for the month of October i.e. just October 2012 but they seem to ask different people for different things. It'll say exactly what they're looking for in the letter.

I have about a four week period where I'll have no official residence (I'll be couch surfing for a month as the lease of the person I'm moving in with has a lease until the end of August). They know about this as they know my tenancy in a different city to my college city ends at the end of July. I'm just wondering how they'll approach that as I won't have any proof of residence for that month.

WildRosie

I don't think you'll have a problem. I haven't heard anyone say they were asked for evidence for right now because you have to prove financial independence for essentially the year before entering education. You could ring them and ask but I do think you'll be fine with regards to the month without an address in August '13.

April O Neill

WildRosie wrote: »

I don't think you'll have a problem. I haven't heard anyone say they were asked for evidence for right now because you have to prove financial independence for essentially the year before entering education. You could ring them and ask but I do think you'll be fine with regards to the month without an address in August '13.

Hopefully not. They might think I'm at home for that month!

sugoo69

Oh now Im very confused
I am a indepedent mature student - my income & my husband will be assesed
I had 1 dependant child in 2012
I am not an Irish citizen In British
I have applied for BTEA as I have been on a long term social welfare payment & the Fees grant, cant ge tthe maintainence grant & BTEA
Was ona VTOS course of 1 year 2012-2013 (it was a 2 year programme but I got 10 distinctions in the 1st year & was spured on the do degree)

Will I get my fees paid as I am not an Irish Citizen but a British Subject??If not back to the vtos course

WildRosie

sugoo69 wrote: »

Oh now Im very confused
I am a indepedent mature student - my income & my husband will be assesed
I had 1 dependant child in 2012
I am not an Irish citizen In British
I have applied for BTEA as I have been on a long term social welfare payment & the Fees grant, cant ge tthe maintainence grant & BTEA
Was ona VTOS course of 1 year 2012-2013 (it was a 2 year programme but I got 10 distinctions in the 1st year & was spured on the do degree)

Will I get my fees paid as I am not an Irish Citizen but a British Subject??If not back to the vtos course

Hi. What makes you think you won't get your fees paid?

sugoo69

Im concerned as the SUSI reps keep refering to the fact that Irish Citizen are entitled to get their fees paid for the first shot at 3rd level education. I am not an Irish Citizen Im British, does this mean I wont get my fees paid?

WildRosie

Nationality and immigration status

In order to get a student grant you must:

• Be a national of an EU member state or an EEA member state or Switzerland or
• Be a family member of one of the above, with permission to remain in the State as a family member of such person under the European Communities Free Movement of Persons) Regulations 2006 and 2008 and EU Treaty rights provisions or
• Have refugee status or
• Have been granted humanitarian leave to remain in the State before the Immigration Act 1999 came into effect. Foreign nationals granted leave to remain under the Irish Born Child scheme - IBC/05 are not eligible. or
• Be eligible for subsidiary protection or have been granted permission to remain under the European Communities (Eligibility for Protection) Regulations 2006 (pdf) or
• Have permission to remain following a determination not to make a deportation order or
• Have permission to remain in the State by virtue of marriage to, or civil partnership with, an Irish national living here or be the dependent child of a person with such permission

ResidenceYou must have been legally resident in the State for 3 of the previous 5 years to qualify for a maintenance grant. However, if you are studying elsewhere in the EU for a recognised qualification, and you were resident in the State for 3 of the 5 years before starting that course, you satisfy this requirement. Find more details of this requirement on studentfinance.ie.

If you fulfil all the criteria for a maintenance grant except for the residence condition in the State, you may still qualify for a fee grant or a postgraduate fee contribution as a ‘tuition student’.

A tuition student is someone who fulfils all the conditions for a student grant except for residence in the State, but who has been resident in an EEA state or Switzerland for 3 of the last 5 years.The members of the EEA (the European Economic Area) are the member states of the EU, along with Iceland, Norway and Liechtenstein.

Citizen's Information suggest you've nothing to worry about but you could ring SUSI on Monday to be absolutely sure but the above info seems pretty clear that as a British national living here you'll qualify (assuming you pass the means test etc).

sugoo69

Thanks for the update.
This is wht concerned me

Also if this is your first time entering third level education you could be entitled to the Free Fee scheme. Every Irish citizen is entitled to receive their fees paid for once while attending third level education.

I hope this information helps.

Kind regards,
Aoife,
SuSi HelpDesk.

I lived here 10 yrs, paid tax for 7 (15yrs +in UK) so Im sure Ill be fine its just tense hoping it all comes together

WildRosie

I think that's a mistake because that would mean that someone who has never lived here and got an Irish passport on the basis of their grandparent being Irish would be entitled to free fees and I don't think that the case. There is a residency clause as well. I would suggest ringing Citizen's Information on Monday, even if just for peace of mind but it would seem very unjust if you weren't eligible for free fees. I can't find anything that would suggest that you wouldn't be. To be honest, SUSI is very new and some of the staff don't seem to have had sufficient training because I've heard of them giving other people incorrect information that was the clarified by Citizen's Information.