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what is the big thing about the Lions?

24

Comments

  • #52
    patmac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭patmac


    I like the Lions and have fond memories of previous tours, but does it do the national and provincial teams any good? It extends the season for players that basically could do with a rest and be fresh for the coming season. I know we have post season tours but the intensity and commitment levels with the Lions would be way higher. Also I was disappointed with Sean O'Brien who missed the pro12 final in order to save himself for the Lions and I was glad he didn't make the test team. Even though I will be cheering them on on Saturday I would take an Irish win over Italy any day of the week than a Lions win.


  • #53
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,489 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It was Joe's call not to play SOB in the final and I have no idea why you'd be glad he didn't make the team.


  • #54
    seanm92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 152 ✭✭seanm92


    patmac wrote: »
    I like the Lions and have fond memories of previous tours, but does it do the national and provincial teams any good? It extends the season for players that basically could do with a rest and be fresh for the coming season. I know we have post season tours but the intensity and commitment levels with the Lions would be way higher. Also I was disappointed with Sean O'Brien who missed the pro12 final in order to save himself for the Lions and I was glad he didn't make the test team. Even though I will be cheering them on on Saturday I would take an Irish win over Italy any day of the week than a Lions win.

    What are you on about? If O'Brien was fit enough he would have played the Rabo final, end of story, why would Schmidt rest him for the benefit of the Lions? also, as highlighted by the above poster, what an idiotic comment


  • #55
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,489 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    seanm92 wrote: »
    What are you on about? If O'Brien was fit enough he would have played the Rabo final, end of story, why would Schmidt rest him for the benefit of the Lions? also, as highlighted by the above poster, what an idiotic comment

    Schmidt did actually say if there was no Lions tour he might have started SOB i.e. he could play but wasn't 100% fit.


  • #56
    .ak
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Still Schmidt's call at the end of the day.


  • #57
    Phonehead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭Phonehead


    I like the Lions, I like the history and I'd hate to see it gone from the rugby calendar. However this tour in particular really hasn't captured the imagination and a large part is down to Australia and the fact that Union doesn't register in the Public minds as important (something the Lions tour thrives on) The Players, they are all so well handled now that we don't get much from them so especially in Australia where there is no home media throwing battle cries this tour just seems to be spluttering along to the beat of annoying British & Irish media championing their own players for selection.


  • #58
    bamboozle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭bamboozle


    i love sport and my two favourite sporting events are the lions tour and the ryder cup, selection for these events are the ultimate achievement for well paid sportsmen whose ambition to participate is not driven by money but by the unique history of the event and the recognition that goes with Lions selection.

    i can pretty confidently say that at the start of this season one of the primary goals for all internationals in the 4 countries was selection for the lions tour. whatever about suggestions above with SOB holding himself back for Lions duty during the Rabo final, both BOD and POC carefully managed their injuries to ensure they gave their bodies the best chance of being ready for oz.

    i'd love to know what BOD or POC's honest answer to the following question would be 'prioritise the following, captaining ireland to win a grandslam, captaining ireland to win the world cup, captain your province to win the hc, captain the lions in a test series win in NZ'

    in saying all this, the selection of shane williams really did an injustice to the tour and was a slap in the face to the likes of mcfadden, trimble, visser, ashton etc


  • #59
    Swiwi.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,415 ✭✭✭Swiwi.


    What is rare is precious, and rare a Lions tour is, precious therefore it is.

    I probably slightly prefer the RWC, but a Lions tour is essential rugby viewing, and it strikes me to the core that non-Anglophone countries do not have remotely the same enthusiasm for it as the home counties and the colonials. It also provides a rare occasion where Celtic and Anglosaxon have a common sense of purpose.


  • #60
    patmac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭patmac


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Schmidt did actually say if there was no Lions tour he might have started SOB i.e. he could play but wasn't 100% fit.

    Which is wrong IMO as your province and your country pay your wages. Having said that O'Brien was in a difficult situation, obviously not 100% fit and a once in a lifetime chance to join the Lions this is why he's probably not being picked for the weekend.


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  • #61
    Conchir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 961 ✭✭✭Conchir


    The thing I love about the Lions is the fact that this group of players, who spend 4 years trying to beat the crap out of each other, all of a sudden gel to form one single team. It's great as a supporter to be able to really get behind all those other great players that you can't support usually. It's unique.

    The supporters make it really special. To go support a Lions tour is definitely a dream of mine, as mixing with all the other fans looks great.


  • #62
    Trojan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,413 ✭✭✭✭Trojan


    What's amazing about the Lions is that you get to see the likes of Brian O'Driscoll partnered with Jamie Roberts in competitive matches with both at the peak of their careers (referring to 2009, but I'd love if they could do that again in 2013).

    🎙️ The Recognized Authority Podcast



  • #63
    brno
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭brno


    I don't understand how someone can be interested in sport but not interested in the lions. I accept other international competitions are a lot bigger but just from a sporting point of view trying to nit four teams into one and getting them to beat a top international should at least be something worth watching! Also it was great to see the likes of Keith wood finally, having struggled for years with a poor Irish side, get to compete on an even footing with the best in the world.


  • #64
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,420 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    For me it's about the history and the tour ethos. It's also the highest honour for British and Irish players really.

    The highest honour an Irish player could achieve is starting a World Cup Final in a green jersey and winning it.

    Professionalism has smashed the 'Tour Ethos'. There was a time where the tour was a once in a lifetime adventure. Now it amounts to a few extra games at the end of the season for highly disciplined athletes.

    For me the Lions belongs in a bygone era, and I have zero interest in cheering on 9 of the 15 players that will take the field tomorrow morning. I'd have no problem with three decisive Australlian wins and limited involvement from the Irish players in the squad.


  • #65
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    I like the Lions, but I'd much prefer to see Munster win a key game ahead of the Lions win a key game.


  • #66
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    The highest honour an Irish player could achieve is starting a World Cup Final in a green jersey and winning it.

    Professionalism has smashed the 'Tour Ethos'. There was a time where the tour was a once in a lifetime adventure. Now it amounts to a few extra games at the end of the season for highly disciplined athletes.

    For me the Lions belongs in a bygone era, and I have zero interest in cheering on 9 of the 15 players that will take the field tomorrow morning. I'd have no problem with three decisive Australlian wins and limited involvement from the Irish players in the squad.
    You may be right about the world cup, however the tour was never a once in a lifetime event. It used to happen even more often!

    It has changed for sure, but it is interesting in a different way now imo.


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  • #67
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,420 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    You may be right about the world cup, however the tour was never a once in a lifetime event. It used to happen even more often!

    It has changed for sure, but it is interesting in a different way now imo.

    In a different world where the world was a much bigger and more disconnected place, taking a few months out of your life to go to the other side of the world and tour SA / AUS / NZ must have been an incredible experience. I can't imagine what it was like around the turn of the twentieth century or between the wars. There's no point talking about the history and tradition of the Lions, because the post professional versions bear little relation to the first century of Lions tours.


  • #68
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    In a different world where the world was a much bigger and more disconnected place, taking a few months out of your life to go to the other side of the world and tour SA / AUS / NZ must have been an incredible experience. I can't imagine what it was like around the turn of the twentieth century or between the wars. There's no point talking about the history and tradition of the Lions, because the post professional versions bear little relation to the first century of Lions tours.

    Valid points but the Lions tour still is. The players who weren't picked were gutted.


  • #69
    trouttrout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    In a different world where the world was a much bigger and more disconnected place, taking a few months out of your life to go to the other side of the world and tour SA / AUS / NZ must have been an incredible experience. I can't imagine what it was like around the turn of the twentieth century or between the wars. There's no point talking about the history and tradition of the Lions, because the post professional versions bear little relation to the first century of Lions tours.

    Do any professional sports tournaments bear any resemblance to what they were like 80 or 90 years ago?


  • #70
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,420 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    trouttrout wrote: »
    Do any professional sports tournaments bear any resemblance to what they were like 80 or 90 years ago?

    Football had a professional aspect from early in the twentieth century. I'd say the FIFA World Cup is probably the most consistent competition in that sense. Change in the Olympic games was gradual and inexorable.

    The Lions has changed from a gruelling multi month slog where players would be picked up on their doorsteps or outside their places of work to disappear to the other side of the world on a genuine adventure. They drank and raised hell. Now the Lions consists of fully professional athletes extending their season an extra six or seven appearances a man in a relatively brief stint in five star hotels.

    How about this: can someone make a case for the Lions without boring me about tradition and falsely claiming that it is still the greatest potential honour for an Irish Rugby player?


  • #71
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Football had a professional aspect from early in the twentieth century. I'd say the FIFA World Cup is probably the most consistent competition in that sense. Change in the Olympic games was gradual and inexorable.

    The Lions has changed from a gruelling multi month slog where players would be picked up on their doorsteps or outside their places of work to disappear to the other side of the world on a genuine adventure. They drank and raised hell. Now the Lions consists of fully professional athletes extending their season an extra six or seven appearances a man in a relatively brief stint in five star hotels.

    How about this: can someone make a case for the Lions without boring me about tradition and falsely claiming that it is still the greatest potential honour for an Irish Rugby player?

    It's the greatest honour in the sense that it's the hardest team to get into. Take SOB, 1 of the first in the Irishteam sheet,, yet he can't bench for the Lions.


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  • #72
    patmac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭patmac


    Certainly the 1971 and 1974 tours were great especially 1974 tour to South Africa with the whole apartheid era, JJ Williams amazed at the huge cheer he got from the Black South Africans, the 99 call and my favourite the Gordon Brown glass eye incident, great article here http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/may/03/lions-tour-1974-rugby. Nowadays with Autumn Internationals, summer tours and the World Cup, the mystique has gone away and the extra games just adds to the wear and tear of our national players, this tour is likely to have an effect on our provinces and national team come winter.


  • #73
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,420 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Rightwing wrote: »
    It's the greatest honour in the sense that it's the hardest team to get into. Take SOB, 1 of the first in the Irishteam sheet,, yet he can't bench for the Lions.

    Yeah but that decision is not in anyway reflective of his ability. The player starting at 7 has no business starting at 7 ahead of him.


  • #74
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Yeah but that decision is not in anyway reflective of his ability. The player starting at 7 has no business starting at 7 ahead of him.

    It's very reflective. Anyone who knows nothing about rugby, could instantly tell you who the 3 or 4 best players in these islands based on player being guaranteed a Test spot.


  • #75
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,420 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Rightwing wrote: »
    It's very reflective. Anyone who knows nothing about rugby, could instantly tell you who the 3 or 4 best players in these islands based on player being guaranteed a Test spot.

    So your saying that Warren Gatland's opinion gets to be the ultimate arbiter of an Irish player's career? Hmm, I would disagree on that.


  • #76
    trouttrout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    Rightwing wrote: »
    It's very reflective. Anyone who knows nothing about rugby, could instantly tell you who the 3 or 4 best players in these islands based on player being guaranteed a Test spot.

    Well Warburton isn't the best 7 in Wales so that doesn't make much sense


  • #77
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    So your saying that Warren Gatland's opinion gets to be the ultimate arbiter of an Irish player's career? Hmm, I would disagree on that.

    Take POC, 7 Lions Test starts in a row, that's the ultimate for a player, no one can argues against those stats.


  • #78
    trouttrout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Take POC, 7 Lions Test starts in a row, that's the ultimate for a player, no one can argues against those stats.

    Yes, but not every Lions starter is a POC. Ugo Monye?


  • #79
    MrDerp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 991 ✭✭✭MrDerp


    I'm sure plenty of players would take a world cup medal or a H-cup medal over a lions cap.

    But that's not the point, you are not comparing like with like. Winning something for club and country is special. Your club is your family and winning internationally is something that appeals to your very identity. But the lions is something different, it's the highest representative honour that any rugby player can aspire to. It's a dream team of the best players from 4 tier 1 rugby sides.

    Some players might not understand that though, if they never get a cap. Look at the attitude Rory McIlroy had before his first Ryder cup, compared to his attitude afterwards.

    The lions might be a cobbled together group, just like the Ryder cup teams are, but getting out there on the pitch with a partisan crowd behind you, who have travelled half way across the world and begged borrowed and stole to see the matches? That must be an incredible experience. Test matches in front of a sell-out crowd with nothing up for grabs except for pride.

    This is why we have international sport, why we have world cups, why we have player of the year awards. As humans we thrive for new ways to compete. That same desire which built the idea of the lions also gave rise to professional rugby, the heineken cup, the super {N}s.

    The lions for me, provides a blood lust which is a step up above regular competition (the 6 nations being the closest, for me). Everything is equal at the beginning of 3 tests. There is no form, no expectation of finishing with a grand slam or a wooden spoon, of Heineken cup wins or crashing out in the pool stages, just the idea that 15 players from different clubs and countries can come together and do something special.

    I would, however, love to see it become something even greater, for a touring combined SANZAR team to provide the opposition. It would balance out these tours somewhat, in that you'd be playing opposition without the structure of the international sides, and letting flair win out for both teams.


  • #80
    alphamule
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 230 ✭✭alphamule


    almighty1 wrote: »
    I have to say I'm in total agreement with the above.

    well then you are also a knob!

    MOD NOTE: Banned.


  • #81
    gosplan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,828 ✭✭✭gosplan


    It's a different experience, players enjoy it and get well paid which is nice for a change, fans enjoy it.

    I mean why would someone have a problem with it?


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  • #82
    patmac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭patmac


    alphamule wrote: »
    well then you are also a knob!
    Post of the day!


  • #83
    alphamule
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 230 ✭✭alphamule


    patmac wrote: »
    Post of the day!

    If only you could see what I said to the mod after he bans me :)


  • #84
    almighty1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭almighty1


    I'll look at the game tomorrow but I couldn't really care less if the Lions win or lose. If it benefits the Irish players then well and good. But I'd find it hard to imagine it would be in their top 5 career aspirations to win a Lions series.


  • #85
    alphamule
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 230 ✭✭alphamule


    gosplan wrote: »
    It's a different experience, players enjoy it and get well paid which is nice for a change, fans enjoy it.

    I mean why would someone have a problem with it?

    Exactly, I think it is fascinating to watch some of the best northern hemisphere players playing together.

    Ask Ian McGeechan what is the big thing about the Lions and he will kick your ass.

    Those tests are easily as physical as any other game!


  • #86
    A2LUE42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,545 ✭✭✭A2LUE42


    trouttrout wrote: »
    Second test 2009, that is all

    On Sky at the moment. 26 mins gone.

    The Irish Grand slam DVD was very funny when O'Gara was saying how he couldn't believe what Paddy Wallace did in the last minute in Cardiff until later in the summer himself.

    Poor Luke Fitz and all the bloody injuries since.


  • #87
    almighty1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭almighty1


    alphamule wrote: »
    If only you could see what I said to the mod after he bans me :)

    That whole sentence is a damning indictment of the current educational system.


  • #88
    alphamule
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 230 ✭✭alphamule


    almighty1 wrote: »
    I'll look at the game tomorrow but I couldn't really care less if the Lions win or lose. If it benefits the Irish players then well and good. But I'd find it hard to imagine it would be in their top 5 career aspirations to win a Lions series.

    What would be a typical top 5??

    Most players agree it is one of the greatest honors extended to them.


  • #89
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    almighty1 wrote: »
    I'll look at the game tomorrow but I couldn't really care less if the Lions win or lose. If it benefits the Irish players then well and good. But I'd find it hard to imagine it would be in their top 5 career aspirations to win a Lions series.

    Honestly? Really?


    Mods, please close this thread, it's just become a haven for lads talking out their arses.


  • #90
    alphamule
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 230 ✭✭alphamule


    almighty1 wrote: »
    That whole sentence is a damning indictment of the current educational system.

    Haha!

    I completely agree! Far too lazy to reword it!


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  • #91
    almighty1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭almighty1


    totallegend wrote: »
    Honestly? Really?


    Mods, please close this thread, it's just become a haven for lads talking out their arses.

    Ok well these 3 are certainly ahead so perhaps you should think before talking out of yours.

    6 Nations Grand Slam
    Heineken Cup
    World Cup


  • #92
    .ak
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    alphamule wrote: »
    well then you are also a knob!
    alphamule wrote: »
    If only you could see what I said to the mod after he bans me :)

    It wasn't really that good at all.... :/

    Banned.


  • #93
    patmac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭patmac


    gosplan wrote: »
    It's a different experience, players enjoy it and get well paid which is nice for a change, fans enjoy it.

    I mean why would someone have a problem with it?
    Apart from player welfare etc, I don't have a problem with it, it's just the hype etc, as I said before I'd trade a 6 nations win over a Lions win any day.


  • #94
    almighty1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭almighty1


    totallegend wrote: »
    So what's next? Winning a Rabo Pro12 is ahead of winning a Lions series?

    Possibly.


  • #95
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    almighty1 wrote: »
    Possibly.

    Get up the yard. You don't believe that and neither do I. I'm out.


  • #96
    A2LUE42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,545 ✭✭✭A2LUE42


    WorldRugby99 wrote: »
    i have never said lions tour isnt an event-it is-im watching and following like everyone else but to compare it to a world cup is simply in my opinions rubbish and is buying into the sky hype.
    what would you prefer honestly-ireland to win world cup with massive homecoming parade in dublin or sexton,o driscoll and o connell to play their part in beating a pretty mediocre aussie team in this lions series?

    martin johnson,francois pienaar,lawrence dallaglio,nick farr jones and richie mccaw have all stated winning world cup biggest thing of their rugby careers-i have read so probably many others too.although granted pienaar never played the lions.

    The same Martin Johnson who said that one of the biggest regrets of his career was losing the 2001 test that he felt they should have won.


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  • #97
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,420 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    A2LUE42 wrote: »
    The same Martin Johnson who said that one of the biggest regrets of his career was losing the 2001 test that he felt they should have won.

    Well it may very well have been the biggest regret of his career because, after all, he won everything ****ing else there was to win!


  • #98
    patmac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭patmac


    totallegend wrote: »
    Get up the yard. You don't believe that and neither do I. I'm out.
    From a fans perspective would you rather your province/team won the Rabo or the Lions won the test series?


  • #99
    .ak
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    patmac wrote: »
    From a fans perspective would you rather your province/team won the Rabo or the Lions won the test series?

    Depends really. For example, I thought BOD shouldn't have been risked if he wasn't 100% for the final this year as there was a Lions tour around the corner.

    I suppose ask yourself the same question, but replace Lions test series win with Irish six nations win?

    The Lions is a massive thing for the players, a premium test for the elite players of the home nations that only rolls around once every 4 years. It's massive for them, it can be the making or breaking of players. So if it's that big for them, then it's big for me too.


  • #100
    Teferi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,320 ✭✭✭Teferi


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    How about this: can someone make a case for the Lions without boring me about tradition and falsely claiming that it is still the greatest potential honour for an Irish Rugby player?

    "Can anybody make a case for the Lions without mentioning two of the biggest things that fans love about the Lions?".

    G'way out of that.


  • #101
    Teferi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,320 ✭✭✭Teferi


    patmac wrote: »
    From a fans perspective would you rather your province/team won the Rabo or the Lions won the test series?

    These things are not mutually exclusive.

    How about both?


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