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***2013 LC Chemistry Before/After***

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  • Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭comeclosa


    Swiftly moving away from any ethene discussions... does anyone have any nice handy way of memorising VSEPR? :( A song or something? Anyone? Anyone?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,696 ✭✭✭outnumbered


    comeclosa wrote: »
    Swiftly moving away from any ethene discussions... does anyone have any nice handy way of memorising VSEPR? :( A song or something? Anyone? Anyone?

    What the hell is VSEPR?????


  • Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭comeclosa


    What the hell is VSEPR?????

    Valence Shell Electron Pair Repulsion Theory
    Bond pairs lone pairs angles pyramidal linear and so on and so on :/


  • Registered Users Posts: 204 ✭✭MarieCurie22


    What the hell is VSEPR?????

    Calm! Its Valence Shell Electron Pair Repulsion theory....
    Just states that the shape of a molcule depends on the number of lone pairs in the outer shell of the central atom :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 482 ✭✭woopah92


    What the hell is VSEPR?????

    Valence shell electron pair repulsion theory or something. It's about what shape the molecule will be i.e. 2 bond pairs, 2 lone pairs V-Shaped, 3 bond pairs 1 lone pair pyramidal. I think that's it anyway. :o


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  • Registered Users Posts: 236 ✭✭SecondMan


    Oh definitely! I'm not saying that there's not enough time. Just with the people in my class (not sure about anyone here) they just don't understand Chemistry! Even if they had marking schemes they aren't able to know what they're actually writing. One of them got 9% in the mock after spending 3 hours in the exam.
    So if you're in that situation focus on the chapters you understand! :)

    Woah 9%.. There's this guy in my class who comes out of every exam saying "That actually went very good. I'll be expecting at least a C". A week after, out come the results...F's all round. He lets on he's so intelligent. Just before the mocks he was finally persuaded by our Chem teacher to move to ordinary level after various replies back to her such as: "But I'm well able for a C in higher". Turn out he got 19% in ordinary level Chemistry in the mocks.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 185 ✭✭ahmdoda


    i found this question in an old mock wondering if any one here knows the answer
    Idoine is liberated in 3 titrations using different solutions from an excess of potassium iodide name each of the solutions used.
    all i know that in winkler titration a solution of manganese 2 hydoxide was used whats the other 2!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 428 ✭✭Acciaccatura


    comeclosa wrote: »
    Swiftly moving away from any ethene discussions... does anyone have any nice handy way of memorising VSEPR? :(A song or something? Anyone? Anyone?

    Sorry, slipped up on that one!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,248 ✭✭✭Slow Show


    ahmdoda wrote: »
    i found this question in an old mock wondering if any one here knows the answer
    Idoine is liberated in 3 titrations using different solutions from an excess of potassium iodide name each of the solutions used.
    all i know that in winkler titration a solution of manganese 2 hydoxide was used whats the other 2!!!

    Potassium iodate is reacted with excess iodide in the iodine/thiosulfate redox titration. The same solution is used to determine the concentration of hypochlorite in bleach, so it's just the one other I think.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭Monsieur Folie


    SecondMan wrote: »
    Woah 9%.. There's this guy in my class who comes out of every exam saying "That actually went very good. I'll be expecting at least a C". A week after, out come the results...F's all round. He lets on he's so intelligent. Just before the mocks he was finally persuaded by our Chem teacher to move to ordinary level after various replies back to her such as: "But I'm well able for a C in higher". Turn out he got 19% in ordinary level Chemistry in the mocks.

    I know I guy like that. :p

    8% in a physics mock and something similar in maths, battled with the teachers for ages before finally dropping down!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭ray2012


    You know in the preparation of ethanoic acid experiment, what would you say is "the function of reflux" ? Would it be right to just say that it ensures that the ethanol is fully oxidised ? I never understood anything about reflux in class. :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,696 ✭✭✭outnumbered


    ray2012 wrote: »
    You know in the preparation of ethanoic acid experiment, what would you say is "the function of reflux" ? Would it be right to just say that it ensures that the ethanol is fully oxidised ? I never understood anything about reflux in class. :pac:

    Returns ethanal to the reaction flask so that it is further oxidised to ethanoic acid, ensures that reaction goes to completion. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,326 ✭✭✭Scuid Mhór


    ray2012 wrote: »
    You know in the preparation of ethanoic acid experiment, what would you say is "the function of reflux" ? Would it be right to just say that it ensures that the ethanol is fully oxidised ? I never understood anything about reflux in class. :pac:

    The reaction mixture is refluxed to ensure a fast reaction and a more complete oxidation from ethanol to ethanoic acid.


  • Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭ray2012


    Returns ethanal to the reaction flask so that it is further oxidised to ethanoic acid, ensures that reaction goes to completion. :)
    The reaction mixture is refluxed to ensure a fast reaction and a more complete oxidation from ethanol to ethanoic acid.

    Thank ye ! :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 204 ✭✭MarieCurie22


    ray2012 wrote: »
    Thank ye ! :D

    ALSO!!!

    Prevents loss of vapour/flask from boiling dry pretty sure I saw you needed 2 in one marking scheme...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,696 ✭✭✭outnumbered



    ALSO!!!

    Prevents loss of vapour/flask from boiling dry pretty sure I saw you needed 2 in one marking scheme...

    is that not for the soap one!?


  • Registered Users Posts: 204 ✭✭MarieCurie22


    is that not for the soap one!?

    Nope its also needed for the ethanoic acid experiment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,248 ✭✭✭Slow Show


    Isn't prevents loss of vapour essentially the same thing as it allowing ethanol/ethanal that condenses to return to the flask to undergo further oxidation? :P


  • Registered Users Posts: 204 ✭✭MarieCurie22


    Slow Show wrote: »
    Isn't prevents loss of vapour essentially the same thing as it allowing ethanol/ethanal that condenses to return to the flask to undergo further oxidation? :P

    No....if i said you spilling your water before turning it to wine was the same thing as turning the whole cup of water to wine even though youd lost water would you believe me?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,248 ✭✭✭Slow Show


    No....if i said you spilling your water before turning it to wine was the same thing as turning the whole cup of water to wine even though youd lost water would you believe me?

    I'm a bit too tired to fully understand this analogy tbh but I'll take your word for it. :L Although would you be able to explain what you mean in terms of the actual experiment, I think it'd be beneficial to everyone, and by everyone I mean me. :P


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,696 ✭✭✭outnumbered


    Slow Show wrote: »
    Isn't prevents loss of vapour essentially the same thing as it allowing ethanol/ethanal that condenses to return to the flask to undergo further oxidation? :P

    It does prevent loss of vapour. But you MUST say returns them to the reaction flask for further oxidation to ethanoic acid. Whatever the technicalities are you still need this! :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 204 ✭✭MarieCurie22


    Slow Show wrote: »
    I'm a bit too tired to fully understand this analogy tbh but I'll take your word for it. :L Although would you be able to explain what you mean in terms of the actual experiment, I think it'd be beneficial to everyone, and by everyone I mean me. :P

    If you want to maximise your yield of ethanoic acid you must....
    -Ensure you oxidise ethanal fully (yes by refulxing but also adding excess sodium dichromate).
    -But in order to do this you must equally ensure you dont lose ethanal through loss of vapour as ethanal has a bp below room temp, so we reflux to ensure no ethanal escapes to ensure we have used it all to get a max yield....also if you lose some through loss of vapour your % yield results would be immediately wrong before you begin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3 Cuaroc05


    Ethanal or Ethanoic acid will almost definetly come up this year because of those videos that were released demonstrating the experiments so we've no excuse not to know them!


  • Registered Users Posts: 43 Lollipops13


    please can someone tell me how you know if an equilibrium reaction is exo or endo?! I know if it gives -54 or something like I know what it is if given in the question but when its not given how am I supposed to know!?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,696 ✭✭✭outnumbered


    please can someone tell me how you know if an equilibrium reaction is exo or endo?! I know if it gives -54 or something like I know what it is if given in the question but when its not given how am I supposed to know!?

    When you heat, the endothermic reaction takes place. So if you are told that you heated it, and it went from green to yellow i.e. reverse you know the backwards reaction is endo and the forward must be exo. :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 46 lizardspock


    Cuaroc05 wrote: »
    Ethanal or Ethanoic acid will almost definetly come up this year because of those videos that were released demonstrating the experiments so we've no excuse not to know them!

    What videos??


  • Registered Users Posts: 204 ✭✭MarieCurie22


    please can someone tell me how you know if an equilibrium reaction is exo or endo?! I know if it gives -54 or something like I know what it is if given in the question but when its not given how am I supposed to know!?
    Ok this is really easy...
    If you are given an equation you are told the forward reaction is -54 this means the forward reaction is EXOthermic.
    How you know is the minus sign....think of it like if something EXits it gets taken away therefore it is a minus. Releate the EX in EXOthermic to EXit... in Exothermic reactions heat EXits...
    So if you want to increase/support the forward reaction which is exothermic you should take away the heat so that more heat will EXit the reaction to replace the heat taken away by cooling.
    If the forward reaction is a + it is endothermic, therefore heat is taken in...how you support/encourage the forward endothermic reaction is to add more heat...
    If you think of it like this...that in the endothermic reaction heat is the fuel :)

    In every equilibrium reaction if the forward reaction is EXothermic (heat is produced/heat exits -) then the back reaction is going to be endothemic (+ ie takes in heat!)

    Sorry didnt read your question properly...outnumbered hit the nail on the head :)

    If you would like more help on this topic pm me im more tha happy to help


  • Registered Users Posts: 204 ✭✭MarieCurie22


    What videos??

    Apparently it was "illegal" to actually carry out these experiments in schools...so they sent out videos demonstrating them...also...theyre not on the course next year at least ethanoic isnt to my knowledge so ;) hot topic but theyre so easy! :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 46 lizardspock


    Apparently it was "illegal" to actually carry out these experiments in schools...so they sent out videos demonstrating them...also...theyre not on the course next year at least ethanoic isnt to my knowledge so ;) hot topic but theyre so easy! :D

    Yeah the sodium dichromate was the problem, carcinogenic or something I think. I'd love if ethanoic or ethanal came up though, theyre grand plus handy enough calculations. Don't actually know why I asked, just being nosy + looking for anything to distract me from accounting!:P


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  • Registered Users Posts: 204 ✭✭MarieCurie22


    Yeah the sodium dichromate was the problem, carcinogenic or something I think. I'd love if ethanoic or ethanal came up though, theyre grand plus handy enough calculations. Don't actually know why I asked, just being nosy + looking for anything to distract me from accounting!:P

    I know the feeling doing the exact same for physics!


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