Electrolux RM 4260 3-way fridge no longer working on 12v

Benbecul97

It works fine when hooked up to the mains and the green switch is set to I.

But when the engine is running and the red switch is set to I it does not work. Most of the time the red light does not come on. Sometimes it will flick on and off for a very short time - a few seconds. It did work fine before, this is just a recent issue.

Any ideas? Loose connection? Fuse?

Benbecul97

Benbecul97 wrote: »

...Loose connection? Fuse?

Possibly one of those yes. Check fuse first.
The 12volt switches in those are known to give trouble as there is no relay it's a direct switch and the inrush often burns them out. It'd be worthwhile checking to see if you are getting 12volt at the back of the switch with a multimeter.

Benbecul97

Thanks Liam!

Re checking the fuse, is this in the fuse box in the glove compartment? Dont think there is a seperate fuse box for the living area of the van. Is it the fuse for the vehicle battery or what symbol should I be looking for in the fuse box? If the fuse is gone are they expensive to replace?

Re checking the 12v switch with a multimeter, how do I get access to the back of the switch to see if I am getting 12v? I can see 2 screws holding in a panel that house the switches (as in the picture) but when I removed these 2 screws the panel didnt come away - the fridge door and fridge door lock looked like they were in the way of removing the panel.

Apologies if these are basic questions but its new to me!

Aidan_M_M

There should be fuses on the living quarters side of things. Every positive wire ought to have one (not saying they do have them because for some reason it's often overlooked, so if it doesn't I recommend installing one as unfused positives can start fires and fry electrics)

The fuses for these fridges are located at the installers discretion...so it's possible there isn't one at all.
It won't be in the automobile fuse board (EDIT. not 100% sure about this though as yours is a coach build, hopefully some-one more learned in that department will correct me if I'm wrong...:D? ) More likely beside the leisure battery or behind the fridge. They're not expensive although I'm not sure the problem is the fuse as you say it flickers which indicates the fuse may still be working or was until recently. It's just good practice to check this first.
It could be one of many types again at the installer's discretion. You can check them for continuity with the multimeter with the battery disconnected.

You may have to remove the fridge or pull it out for access. Careful here as you don't want to damage the gas connections. I'd start by removing the vents outside and seeing how much play there is on the gas connection (you may find the fuse back there too if you're lucky).
If you have to remove a solid copper gas pipe be prepared to cut it and install a new connection as I'm not sure if you can re-use the connection.

Also note;

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

In the typical dometic/Electrolux fridge most people have ,there are 4 white plastic caps , just inside the door seal , they pop off with a knife or small flat screwdriver . Inside those are usually Philips headed screws , no harm to give them a check .

Perhaps an easier solution is to dismantle the surrounding cabinet.

I wasn't aware you can remove the upper panel but that's only because I have never tried. The door and latch are removable as they facilitate mounting on both sides for alternative orientation.

Have you checked your leisure battery is working as it should?

Benbecul97

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Have you checked your leisure battery is working as it should?

Thanks for your very detailed info above Liam - I appreciate it. Will try what I can later on this evening.

Yes, the leisure battery does work. Last night I was able to power the inverter which in turn powered the tv, and the tv worked fine.

Benbecul97

Ok Liam, the first thing I tried was just starting the engine and the red light for the fridge came on. It stayed on for about 5 mins and then went off again. I switched off the engine for a few minutes and started it again and it came back on again. Sometimes when I flicked the red switch on and off it worked fine and other times it didnt.

So as it stands now, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Any ideas now?

Leave the inverter on and run the test again. If the inverter bell starts buzzing warning the battery is low I'd suspect it is not holding charge.
Other than that I suspect a faulty switch...or a loose connection.

Benbecul97

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Leave the inverter on and run the test again. If the inverter bell starts buzzing warning the battery is low I'd suspect it is not holding charge.
Other than that I suspect a faulty switch.

Ok Liam, just tried this. No buzzing from the inverter. On the battery condition display the dial was to the extreme right of the green area so fully charged and the right light remained on all the time.

So maybe it is a faulty switch. Where would I go about getting on of these? Are they expensive? Are they difficult to install?

...For a loose connection, do you mean a loose connection to the wiring of the red switch, or some loose connection in the fridge in general?

Thanks for all you help with this.

12volt switch
^that's very very expensive for what it is, Maplins may have one that fits if you bring your old one to compare. Or try ebay for dometic 12volt switch.
By the looks of the link I sent it's a fairly simple swap.

By loose connection I mean one of the two wires (pos. & neg.) running from the leisure battery to the fridge connector block, or from the connector block to the switch and onto fridge wiring are not secured appropriately, best check these next as that's the cheapest of the options available. Check for 12vDC at every connection and wriggle the wires to rule this one out. If you see any corrosion or battery acid goop along the way remove it as best you can.

Of course it also may just be the LED in the switch that is faulty...hard to tell really.

It's also a possibility that there's a problem with the fridge, which in that unlikely event that's more Aidan_M_M's jurisdiction than mine. You could try the bat-signal...usually works .

In any case don't expect a lot from that fridge in 12volt I rarely bother with it. It will only maintain temperature, you still have to use gas or mains to get it to that temperature. Usually I just let it get to temperature on gas, then switch it off when moving saving the alternator the bother and maintain the temperature by not opening the door.

Normally I'd say by-pass the switch to test if the fridge is working ie. link the two positive poles together on the switch connector. The problem with this is you'll need to keep your battery on charge as the fridge is fairly high current and may run your battery down faster than you expect which I wouldn't advise. Fill the fridge with water bottles and the freezer (if you have one) with a filled ice tray (fill it with water to see if it freezes not vice versa) and come back and check if anything is colder than outside the fridge after 4 to 12 hours.
Like I say though set to 12volt those fridges are rather underwhelming so I'm not sure if a negative result here will confirm anything.

To test if the switch is working remove it from it's holder, it should push forwards away from the back of the fridge when you squeeze top and bottom after removing the electrical connector by the look of it. From the link I see it has three poles (contacts). Bare in mind this is a guess; I speculate that the outer two poles are a live in and a switched live out. The inner pole is possibly a ground for the bulb/LED. You can confirm the polarity yourself by testing the switch connector for 12volt with a multimeter and pay careful attention to the "-" reading on the multimeter and it's relationship to the colour of the multimeter probes.
When you know what pole does what, test the switch for continuity in the on and off positions on both positive terminals. If you are not getting consistent continuity in either position you can confirm the switch is junk.

You can make a jump wire to by-pass the switch with two of these on 1.5mm or thicker stranded cable.


This way you can push them into the face of the switch connector without having to resort to cutting wires or sticking pins or bare end in things.

You need to be absolutely sure about polarity when attempting this or you risk melting cables and other very bad things, the least of which is blowing a fuse.

Aidan_M_M

The switches go very regularly , I always have a good few in stock . either that or the 12v element . I'd change the switch anyways , once they start flickering they're on the way out.

Benbecul97

Big big thanks to Sir Liamalot for sharing his knowledge on this particular thread, and many other threads, really really decent of you. Thanks alot.:)

To be honest I don't have enough knowledge, understanding, and in particular the equipment, to try some of the troubleshooting suggestions.

Is it a big job to change the switch? I could try this.

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

The switches go very regularly , I always have a good few in stock . either that or the 12v element . I'd change the switch anyways , once they start flickering they're on the way out.

Ok, thanks.
How much is a switch for this fridge with yourselves?

No worries, happy to help.

I'd say it's a fairly simple swap once you have access to the top of the unit,
It'll be similar to this

Part #406 is what yer looking at

If it was going to be difficult they'd have wired a relay in there. :rolleyes:
...then again if they did that they wouldn't make such a killing re-branding switches.

paddyp

http://www.maplin.co.uk/productsearch.aspx?navigationCommand=Ntk:si_old%7c*%7c3%7c,Ro:0,N:8638,Nr:AND(8124)&menuno=8124

Maplin in galway ( Wellpark Retail Park) should have a suitable switch. just clip out the old one and bring it along to show them.

Benbecul97

paddyp wrote: »

http://www.maplin.co.uk/productsearch.aspx?navigationCommand=Ntk:si_old%7c*%7c3%7c,Ro:0,N:8638,Nr:AND(8124)&menuno=8124

Maplin in galway ( Wellpark Retail Park) should have a suitable switch. just clip out the old one and bring it along to show them.

Worth getting cheap multimeter while you're there they start at about a tenner.

Thanks again lads.

@paddyp: That's great - I can drop by Maplin to pick up one of these for a few quid, and a multimeter.

To remove the switch - if you see the picture of it in post 1 - do I literally lever out the switch using a knife/flat head screwdriver around the black casing surrounding the red switch?

Benbecul97

Try spring for a clamp multi-meter they're a little extra but much more useful because you can read amps much easier.

Benbecul97 wrote: »

To remove the switch - if you see the picture of it in post 1 - do I literally lever out the switch using a knife/flat head screwdriver around the black casing surrounding the red switch?

:eek::eek::eek:No!! don't go sticking knives in electrics!:rolleyes::eek:
Disassemble it! Or disassemble the cabinet surrounding it...whichever's easier.

Apart from the danger of electrocution (minor) you won't be able to reach the connector without disassembly to re-install it.

Have a look at the exploded diagram I sent there's a gas knob and one or two screws that need removal to gain access behind the fascia, and possibly the fridge latch and door need to be taken out of the way too.

Or if you have enough play on the gas lines at the back (flexible hose perhaps) you may be able to slide the whole fridge forwards 4 inches which may buy you enough room.

Benbecul97

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Try spring for a clamp multi-meter they're a little extra but much more useful because you can read amps much easier.

:eek::eek::eek:No!! don't go sticking knives in electrics!:rolleyes::eek:
Disassemble it! Or disassemble the cabinet surrounding it...whichever's easier.

Apart from the danger of electrocution (minor) you won't be able to reach the connector without disassembly to re-install it.

I mentioned in another thread that I didn't have enough knowledge / understanding to try some of the troubleshooting suggestions!!:D
Ok, so you can't just lever it out - that's a shame!

Yeah, I have had a look at the exploded diagram that you linked - thanks. So I need to replace #406 - 12v switch.

To get at it I need to remove #401 - fascia, #403A - gas knob (and I think there is a 2nd gas knob) and #485 - gas knob pin.

How do you remove #403A - gas knob? Do you literally just pull the gas knob forward to remove it?

====
Actually, I see now it's in the top section - Gas Equipment - of the exploded diagram.
I also need to remove #402 and #403B.

Then again if you want to try the screwdriver method there is a risk of doing some damage to the connectors and housing without being able to see what you are prying on. I honestly don't know how to remove the switch, but disconnect the batteries and mains first and you may get lucky or hang about and someone will probably know first hand if you can.
Sorry about all the ! marks.

Yeah looks like the gas knob pulls off, I don't have first hand experience at what you are attempting though. So I'd rather not risk giving unhelpful advice.
Aidan is your man in that department. I'm sure there's others who are familiar too.

Just had a look at the diagram I'd say the gas knob pin (485) and igniter (438) (is that the second gas knob?) can remain where they are as they won't hinder the removal of the fascia.
The mains fridge temp. dial will come the same as the gas did.

There's a third dial on the schematic that your's may not have (402/403B?) this is because I couldn't find a diagram on your exact model.

Try to remember the dial positions (fully anti-clockwise for instance) for re-installing later.

PS. had a look at the Maplins multimeters the cheapest clamp-meter on the list only reads AC current, this is not useful for batteries so careful if you do go for a clamp-meter ensure you it can read DC current too. I went with the cheapest I could get until I eventually blew the guts outov three of them before I sprang for a good one.

paddyp

Panel switches have springy plastic pieces at the that squash down as the switch goes through the hole then pop out to retain the switch. To remove you squash them again and pull the switch out. Usually you can just do the top and slide the top out this gives you enough leeway to get the bottom half out.



Regarding clamp meter my multimeter is in use practically everyday I hardly ever use the clamp meter. Its only useful with seperatable single conductors with plenty of room to get the clamp on. For practical purposes you can either disconnect to measure the current or guestimate the current by measuring the voltage drop accross the fuse.

paddyp

paddyp wrote: »

Panel switches have springy plastic pieces at the that squash down as the switch goes through the hole then pop out to retain the switch. To remove you squash them again and pull the switch out. Usually you can just do the top and slide the top out this gives you enough leeway to get the bottom half out.

What about re-installing it? Is the socket fixed in position for reconnect or is there an element of play in the wires?

paddyp wrote: »

Regarding clamp meter my multimeter is in use practically everyday I hardly ever use the clamp meter. Its only useful with seperatable single conductors with plenty of room to get the clamp on. For practical purposes you can either disconnect to measure the current or guestimate the current by measuring the voltage drop accross the fuse.

Depends on your practical purposes...I'm not sticking probes in a loaded 125amp 3 phase mains supply.

I get consistent use of the clamp.

Benbecul97

paddyp wrote: »

Panel switches have springy plastic pieces at the that squash down as the switch goes through the hole then pop out to retain the switch. To remove you squash them again and pull the switch out. Usually you can just do the top and slide the top out this gives you enough leeway to get the bottom half out.

Thanks paddyp. The picture you posted of the switch is very helpful and I can see how it operates.

Have you changed one of these rockers switches before?

Since this 12volt switch is powered by the battery in the van engine, is there anything I need to disconnect from the fridge before trying to change the switch, or is it correct to assume that when the van engine is off there is no power going to the fridge (off course the mains isnt plugged in and the gas is off) and so its safe to try and remove the switch?

Here is a pic
FridgeDoor.JPG

You mention "To remove you squash them again and pull the switch out. "
How did you manage this? I can't possibly get near them to even attempt to squash them so as to remove them. Its not possible to get any leverage on it. Did you use a long nose pliers or something?

Regarding the three circular knobs - how can these be removed? do they first need to be turned to the "0" position before attempting to remove them?

I don't want to exert too much force as I dont want to do any damage.

Any ideas anyone?

paddyp

Benbecul97 wrote: »

Thanks paddyp. The picture you posted of the switch is very helpful and I can see how it operates.

Have you changed one of these rockers switches before?

Since this 12volt switch is powered by the battery in the van engine, is there anything I need to disconnect from the fridge before trying to change the switch, or is it correct to assume that when the van engine is off there is no power going to the fridge (off course the mains isnt plugged in and the gas is off) and so its safe to try and remove the switch?

Here is a pic
FridgeDoor.JPG

You mention "To remove you squash them again and pull the switch out. "
How did you manage this? I can't possibly get near them to even attempt to squash them so as to remove them. Its not possible to get any leverage on it. Did you use a long nose pliers or something?

Regarding the three circular knobs - how can these be removed? do they first need to be turned to the "0" position before attempting to remove them?

I don't want to exert too much force as I dont want to do any damage.

Any ideas anyone?

Haven't changed one of these but have changed tons of identical type panel switches. Losts of them will some out by pressing firmly down on the switch bezel and levering out at the sametime. I just pulled mine out to see if you can change it without pulling out the fridge. but I don't think you'll have enough leeway in the wires to reconnect. The fridge will have to slide out, not sure how much slack youll have in the wires and gaspipe Aidan_M_M would know better for your particular model.

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

...I'm not sticking probes in a loaded 125amp 3 phase mains supply.

How do you check the voltage then, anyway its not a scenario the op is lightly to encounter. I'd be slow to recommend a clamp meter to people as the average punter will get little or no use out of it and most of the cheap clamp meters are junk, even the uni-t ones on ebay which would be a cheap brand to begin with are mostly knockoffs.

Benbecul97

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

The switches go very regularly , I always have a good few in stock . either that or the 12v element . I'd change the switch anyways , once they start flickering they're on the way out.

@Aidan_M_M : Ok, thanks.
How much is a switch for this fridge with yourselves?
How do you about changing this switch?
Can it be changed via the front panel, in the picture above, or does the fridge need to slide forward from its housing to get access to the front panel to change the switch?

Thanks.

paddyp

paddyp wrote: »

How do you check the voltage then, anyway its not a scenario the op is lightly to encounter. I'd be slow to recommend a clamp meter to people as the average punter will get little or no use out of it ....

You can check voltage on 3 phase from probing a socket or connecting to a distro with a pre-wired voltmeter.
The voltage will not change when it's loaded/unloaded so it's safe enough.

I agree it may be off little use for camper diagnosis compared to a traditional meter but I find it immensely helpful and quick when chasing phantom loads or measuring things like engine turn-over in-rush without risking destroying the meter. Also for entry level it reduces the necessity to splice cables. Not to mention that the clamp can hook onto things to enable hands free reading in awkward situations when just using the test probes.
Personally I rather have it and not need it rather than need it and not have it. Whether this is worth the extra € to the average punter I can't say.

I agree too that cheap meters are junk, I'm reluctant to suggest it's only cheap clamp meters though. As a rule of thumb I tend to consider any reading outside the expected range as a meter fault on cheaper brands. Especially one that's taken some abuse.

Come to think of it I don't think I've ever owned a traditional meter so I can't really vouch for them.

Benbecul97

Benbecul97 wrote: »

Since this 12volt switch is powered by the battery in the van engine, is there anything I need to disconnect from the fridge before trying to change the switch, or is it correct to assume that when the van engine is off there is no power going to the fridge (off course the mains isnt plugged in and the gas is off) and so its safe to try and remove the switch?

No. the alternator if wired correctly is just a generator for the batteries.
The engine charges the batteries which then powers the fridge.

It's good practice to disconnect all batteries before you start wiring, there's an awful lot of amps remaining in 3 batteries with the engine off.
Odds are high you have only your 2 leisure batteries connected while the engine is off but I can't say for sure without testing it.

If disconnecting the engine battery check your radio doesn't have an anti-theft lock out code or if it does that you have the code.

Benbecul97

@Aidan_M_M : Ok, thanks.
How much is a switch for this fridge with yourselves?
How do you about changing this switch?
Can it be changed via the front panel, in the picture above, or does the fridge need to slide forward from its housing to get access to the front panel to change the switch?

Thanks.