Difference in Corporate L&D and teaching (K12)

medias

Can anyone share their experience in the competence gap from working in corporate L&D to teaching in a K12 (or Primary/secondary), weather teaching in a classroom or developing the curriculum.


In L&D we work a lot with things like Instructional Design, ADDIE Model, Blooms Taxonomy, Learning Technologies, Kirpatricks evaluation .etc all with a view to increase performance. Instructing skills, program management and design skills are there too.

Is such a person qualified to work in K12. I imagine the gap is understanding younger learners and understanding how to develop/deliver for 10 year olds versus 12 year olds .etc

Is there any set competencies that one with L&D experience should develop to move into a more K12 type role, either formally or informally or are the principles in many ways the same?

medias

L&D = Learning and Development

thefasteriwalk

Are you American? We don't use the K12 designation in Ireland. Is it that you're looking to make the transition from research to teaching?

Mardy Bum

I know a woman who did the PDE after working for a good few years or so in L&D and she got on fine. You will need a Professional Diploma in Education though you cannot just walk into the classroom.

medias

thefasteriwalk wrote: »

Are you American? We don't use the K12 designation in Ireland. Is it that you're looking to make the transition from research to teaching?

Thanks for the reply. No I am Irish but I guess from a L&D/Training perspective I work in a multinational context so I was taking this discussion at a more generic level. I am not sure what you mean by "research" but I am involved in an international project bringing learning programs (via technology) into the classroom.

{I realize now that I am not clear! let me try to clarify}

What I am trying to establish/discuss is the learning/pedagogical skills a primary or secondary school teacher has that is different from the learning/pedagogical (or anagogical if you prefer that term) skills that professional adult trainers have?

I read the PDE Learning Outcomes here: and it seems quite generic in terms of the skills that are required?

Miss Lockhart

I don't really know much about your sector OP but I would think classroom management skills would be of much greater significance to teaching children, and especially teenagers, than in Learning and Development. In my opinion it really is the most vital key skill in being a successful teacher.

I'm sure there is a lot of crossover in terms of theory but either way a PDE is necessary to teach in schools now.

thefasteriwalk

I understood you until 'professional adult trainers' entered the equation. Do you work with the technology and train adults?

To answer your initial question - no, someone working in L&D would not be qualified to teach K12. In Ireland, at least, you need a teaching qualification to become a teacher. It's a PDE for secondary and there's a specific qualification for primary too, but I'm not sure what it is.

As far as the 'competency gap' goes, I'd imagine the interface would be the big difference.

medias

Yes Professional Adult trainers as in Corporate training, such as the Instructor, for example that would deliver Microsoft Excel training to a company.

I am not interested in a qualification to teach Primary/Secondary school I am interested in the competencies that differentiates the two.

For example what do such teachers learn in their training and subsequently in their careers aside from the subject content. I would say that most trainers take presentation and facilitation skills training, understand learning models (ADDIE/SAM for example) and understand theories behind writing learning objectives.

medias

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

I don't really know much about your sector OP but I would think classroom management skills would be of much greater significance to teaching children, and especially teenagers, than in Learning and Development. In my opinion it really is the most vital key skill in being a successful teacher.

I'm sure there is a lot of crossover in terms of theory but either way a PDE is necessary to teach in schools now.

Thanks Lockhart!

dambarude

medias wrote: »

For example what do such teachers learn in their training and subsequently in their careers aside from the subject content.

I'll talk about primary teaching (undergraduate route):
- Very little subject content save in Irish/ Religion up until September 2012. That includes Maths/English since then.
-Classroom management; layout of classroom, questioning, planning, assessment, differentiation, behaviour management (rules, rewards, sanctions) etc.
- Subject specific pedagogy; how to teach science/ English/ Maths/ PE/ Visual arts/ Drama/ Music etc. A significant amount of the course would be spent on this. It would deal with fairly specific ways of teaching particular topics in certain subjects, planning for them etc.
- Early Childhood Education; play, Aistear, language development, early mathematical understanding etc.
- Special Educational needs; assessment, interventions, characteristics, inclusion, differentiation
- ICT in Education
- Foundation subjects; sociology, history, psychology, philosophy of education - in many cases can be based on current educational affairs, inequality in education etc. This would also cover learning and development theories (e.g. Piagetian theory) and social development.

The following is covered in induction, or picked up in the initial months of teaching:
- Working with parents
- Completing school records; an leabhar rolla, school-specific attendance records, notes of absence etc.
- Collaboration on school policies (e.g. e-learning, subject specific policies, anti-bullying, acceptable user, supervision)

This is very far from an exhaustive list.

medias

Thanks dambarude It is interesting to see that so much time is spent on pedagogy specifically for each subject (as opposed to purely learning the content itself)

We are in the process of developing content for a program, delivered online inside and outside the classroom. We have started to develop the content and are referencing the Irish guidelines for example and those from some other countries. http://www.curriculumonline.ie/uploadedfiles/PDF/jc_bus_guide.pdf

While we can hit much of the criteria, I guess we are looking for verification (or the skills needed to able to verify) that what we are developing is at the right level for the age group (11-14). By level I mean the correct level of detail, language, level of understanding (should the student be able to just explain or be able to demonstrate understanding).

I imagine the dept of education have such people, and wonder is this a trained for role or really only teachers with years of experience can "feel" what the right level should be.

Miss Lockhart

No time at all is spent learning subject content in second level teacher education.

dambarude

medias wrote: »

Thanks dambarude It is interesting to see that so much time is spent on pedagogy specifically for each subject (as opposed to purely learning the content itself)

We are in the process of developing content for a program, delivered online inside and outside the classroom. We have started to develop the content and are referencing the Irish guidelines for example and those from some other countries. http://www.curriculumonline.ie/uploadedfiles/PDF/jc_bus_guide.pdf

While we can hit much of the criteria, I guess we are looking for verification (or the skills needed to able to verify) that what we are developing is at the right level for the age group (11-14). By level I mean the correct level of detail, language, level of understanding (should the student be able to just explain or be able to demonstrate understanding).

I imagine the dept of education have such people, and wonder is this a http://www.curriculumonline.ie/uploadedfiles/PDF/jc_bus_guide.pdf or really only teachers with years of experience can "feel" what the right level should be.

You should have a look at the annual examinations in each subject available here: http://www.examinations.ie/index.php?l=en&mc=en&sc=ep

One part of the examination in Business Studies to which you refer above is here: http://www.examinations.ie/archive/exampapers/2013/JC042ALP114EV.pdf

dambarude

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

No time at all is spent learning subject content in second level teacher education.

That is in the case of the PDE, where all subject content has been covered previously in an undergraduate degree. In concurrent second level teaching degrees content is covered. So in both models content is covered at some point.

In primary teaching much or most of the content is never covered, as it is presumed to be known. (Incorrectly presumed at times).

Miss Lockhart

dambarude wrote: »

That is in the case of the PDE, where all subject content has been covered previously in an undergraduate degree. In concurrent second level teaching degrees content is covered. So in both models content is covered at some point.

In primary teaching much or most of the content is never covered, as it is presumed to be known. (Incorrectly presumed at times).

Well I would consider the subject content to be part of the degree rather than the concurrent teacher training in that case.

I agree with you about primary. It's the biggest failing of the system imo, but that's for another thread!