TRUST YOUR CHEMIST AT YOUR PERIL

Markcheese · 18-06-2013 12:47am

I don't mind paying a bit more in a local small town pharmacy, but there is a question of how much ...
I started requesting generic years ago because of cfc(inhalers) , on one inhaler I've gone back to main brand cos it doesn't block up and only a euro or so difference, other inhaler can be 20 euro a time difference so I stick with generic...
Its pressure from the bottom that'll force drug wholesalers to drop their prices to pharmacies too...

Alicat · 18-06-2013 2:53am

Markcheese wrote: »

True enough... Probably should be pushed a bit more ....I'm off to Spain on Wednesday won't have to ring round as I'll stock up for the year.... If I was organised I'd go on regular cheapo ryan air day trips just for the meds...

We had a lady a few months ago who was doing the same thing, and came in to ask us a few questions because she wasn't feeling well. Turns out the pharmacy in Spain had given her the wrong drug (I say wrong drug, it could've been her fault by not communicating properly to the pharmacy which one she wanted, but the fact is she ended up taking the wrong drug for a number of weeks). She's lucky she didn't end up in hospital. I wouldn't be against getting your prescription abroad if it was worth your while but I would advise people to be very very careful!

Mountainsandh wrote: »

This thread caught my eye, and here is my story : a med that needs to be got monthly, cost me 60 euros for the last 2 years, until last month when I discovered at a different chemist that it was only 32 euros at their place (or so), and furthermore, that there was a generic available for 25 euros.

I have changed chemists, but am pretty pi$$ed off at having given 60 euros monthly for 2 years to that chemist number one in a smaller town, that I trusted, and to whom I was naively wishing to give my business, you know, supporting non chain native shops and what not. :mad:

It's only recently that I remember reading an article with comparisons of chemist prices in the country and it was news to me that they could charge what they wanted on prescription medicine. The small town I supported was cited as having the dearest chemist in the country I think, trust me to go for that one.

It is dishonest on the part of chemists not to inform people of generic equivalents, and to have profited for the past few years on the grounds that people should "shop around", when people didn't even know that they should. Medication in my mind was something that was already regulated, how was I to know that it was available cheaper elsewhere when this fact was not publicized ?

I'm sick of people throwing generics back at me actually. I offer them most of the time if they're available and the money saved is worthwhile ie. not 10c or something, and the amount of people that still won't take them is unreal. I had one woman tell me that her consultant 'conducted a test' on her that 'proved she COULD NOT take a generic aspirin'. I desperately wanted to ask her what 'test' he conducted but had to bite my tongue!

The new bill will make a lot of generics standard procedure across the country, in big and small pharmacies alike. I think part of the issue with the pricing difference is that the smaller pharmacies are struggling to keep up with the bigger ones dropping theirs. The big chains have a string of pharmacists and accountants working out best prices and deals. They have the cash and the power to negotiate better cost prices with drug companies. With the smaller ones, it's perhaps one owner/pharmacist running maybe one or two shops. Most of these are genuinely not trying to 'rip off' their customers but are trying to get to grips with a changing market by themselves. For those who manage to stay open, they'll all get there in the end.

It's quite disheartening to see the lack of respect and understanding from some of the public for what we do though. If they think that all we do is throw a few boxes into a bag and charge a fortune for it, it makes me not want to the job anymore (I'm a technician, not a Pharmacist btw). I mean, I could go in tomorrow and do just that; fling the tablets across the counter at the customers and shrug my shoulders at them when they have a query about their medication. Sure as long as they're getting a good price, that's all that matters. Why do I bother remembering your name each time you come in? And your wife's name. And your kids' names, and what class they're in. And recognise your voice on the phone without you even having to say who you are. And remember what antibiotic you got last week and what you got it for without having to go to the computer. Staying back half hour after work (unpaid) to try and track down the stupid doctor in the hospital that wrote your prescription incorrectly at 5 o'clock on a Friday evening. And calling you because I was concerned about your Dad as he seemed to be a bit confused and struggling to manage his tablets recently.

And before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm not saying the above things are reasons to charge people a bomb! I would hope that they would make a difference to you picking your pharmacy, not just saving a fiver a month on your cholesterol tablets.

nino1 · 18-06-2013 5:46am

Mountainsandh wrote: »

how was I to know that it was available cheaper elsewhere when this fact was not publicized ?

How did you not know that?
Anything else would be illegal and considered price fixing.

Mountainsandh · 18-06-2013 7:37am

We're not talking cereals here, we are talking medication. So yes, price fixing could indeed apply in this instance, it's called "regulation" sometimes.
I'm French and it is regulated in France.
As a result every time I have returned to France recently and had to purchase medicine (wherever, no specific pharmacy), I have had to check my receipt thinking they ommitted something. Cough mixture 2.50, antibiotics for a week 2.95, kids paracetamol 2.70, that kind of thing...

Small shops trying to survive, ok. But if they need to charge 50% + extra in order to survive, then maybe they should simply face the facts, close and get work with/for a franchise or a bigger chemist.

The small town I'm on about where I spent 50% more for the same medication for 2 years is not short on pharmacies, so it's not like they're providing something that's unavailable elsewhere.

@ alicat : I understand your frustration with generics being refused, but I'm sure that will change. It's only new here in fairness, well, and that's part of my point, it's only new that they are trying to encourage and publicize the usefulness of generics. In France most of my gps have prescribed generics as a matter of course, making sure as an aside everytime that you (the patient) are ok with it. The GPs attitude is reassuring and matter of fact and there is no reason to distrust them, and my Irish GP has the same attitude to generics.

mountai · 18-06-2013 3:11pm

The more abuse I get on this subject the more I will expose !!!1

The Latest --

Went to a Chemist this morning, prescription for ---- 3 months supply of a particular drug. Was charged E13.39 .Asked "Is this 3 months supply ?"
answer "No" Asked "What does it say on the prescription?" Answer "One Month X 3" Asked "Why have you changed , my Doctors Prescription?" Ans "Unless you ASK for 3 moths supply you are issued with 1 months " asked "Why?" Shrug of shoulder "Most people only want one months supply". Demanded 3 months supply and paid

wait for it

E26.27

Now you dont need to be as clever as a "Pet Dog" to work out what is going on here. Its obvious that this "Professional" will profit by more than 30% by issuing 3 prescriptions rather than one !!!

For all you concerned Pharmacists --- Is it legal to change a prescription to maximize your Profit potential??

At least when Dick Turpin and The General, relieved us of our hard earned , they paid us the compliment, of wearing a

MASK !!!

XxMCRxBabyxX · 18-06-2013 3:23pm

mountai wrote: »

The more abuse I get on this subject the more I will expose !!!1

The Latest --

Went to a Chemist this morning, prescription for ---- 3 months supply of a particular drug. Was charged E13.39 .Asked "Is this 3 months supply ?"
answer "No" Asked "What does it say on the prescription?" Answer "One Month X 3" Asked "Why have you changed , my Doctors Prescription?" Ans "Unless you ASK for 3 moths supply you are issued with 1 months " asked "Why?" Shrug of shoulder "Most people only want one months supply". Demanded 3 months supply and paid
wait for it
E26.27

Now you dont need to be as clever as a "Pet Dog" to work out what is going on here. Its obvious that this "Professional" will profit by more than 30% by issuing 3 prescriptions rather than one !!!

For all you concerned Pharmacists --- Is it legal to change a prescription to maximize your Profit potential??

At least when Dick Turpin and The General, relieved us of our hard earned , they paid us the compliment, of wearing a
MASK !!!

That's all well and good until you are taken off your original prescription for whatever reason and end up totally out of pocket for all the extra drugs you have bought and now have no use for. As has happened to me.

It's also not changing the prescription at all.

sandin · 18-06-2013 3:29pm

If people understood pharmacy pricing they would realise its not the pharmacies making the money.

Another poster asked to show where a pharmacy has closed - plenty of examples. Sweeneys in the west of the country being a recent major casualty. (8 branches I think)

And before anyone accuses me of being a pharmacist - I'm not, In fact its a couple of years since I've needed to be in one (thankfully).

Pharmacy pricing Ireland.

Option 1 - pharmacy adds 50% to cost price (giving a 33% margin) - not huge considering the running costs. To give another example, a fashion chain store will add between 100% and 150% or more to the cost price.

Option 2 - becoming more common place and providing better value for higher price medicines (over €20). The pharmacist adds a dispensing charge of €6-€7 to each item listed. 3 x months supply of a drug would be charged at 3 x dispensing charges.

Option 3 - Medical Card. Here the pharmacy get a dispensing fee from HSE for each item prescribed.

Cost prices of medicines - set between government and pharmaceutical compnaies. Pharmacies have no say whatsoever in the cost pricing. They have dropped over the past few years, but it seems the FG gov have stoped the roll out of median pricing on all products - this meant the average European price on a product was used in Ireland.

Finally, don't be comparing prices with other countries. Other countries have different pricing structures. In spain you pay 40% of the cost of a medicine, the gov pays the rest. So something that is €10 in spain, will cost you €4 in the spanish pharmacy as the spanish gov will pay the other €6. Great for cheap everyday drugs, but if you are on specialist cancer or heart drugs that cost €1k a month, it will cost you €400 every month in Spain whereby in Ireland the MAXIMUM for a family is about €140 month.

What is fairer - well suppose on what your own feeling is. A family member of mine is on a specific drug that would normally be about 1500/month, he's lucky he's not in Spain as he wouldn't be able to affford it and would be in constant pain. Here he pays the monthly max of about 140 and is able to have a pain free life. - IMO, its sort of an insurance plan. If its too expensive, you have no wrries here, but you do elsewhere. That's quite comforting to know.

allthedoyles · 18-06-2013 3:34pm

XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »

That's all well and good until you are taken off your original prescription for whatever reason and end up totally out of pocket for all the extra drugs you have bought and now have no use for. As has happened to me.

It's also not changing the prescription at all.

A minority may end up in the above situation .
Majority would be on long-term medication .

Watch out now for a wave of posters on here attempting more excuses to wriggle their way to justify why pharmacies operate like they do.

Its news to me that you can buy 3 months at a time , and more news to hear that you only pay 2/3rd's the price .

Transparency is the buzz-word today at the G8 summit , but it is definately not a word in a pharmacist vocabulary .

XxMCRxBabyxX · 18-06-2013 3:37pm

allthedoyles wrote: »

A minority may end up in the above situation .
Majority would be on long-term medication .

Watch out now for a wave of posters on here attempting more excuses to wriggle their way to justify why pharmacies operate like they do.

Its news to me that you can buy 3 months at a time , and more news to hear that you only pay 2/3rd's the price .

Transparency is the buzz-word today at the G8 summit , but it is definately not a word in a pharmacist vocabulary .

This medication was long term when it had to be changed. Things happen - new side effects, other/new drugs prescribed or new illnesses having an effect.

I can only speak for the pharmacies that I have attended but I have always been given the option of the full amount prescribed or one month at a time. Any that I have gone to have been totally honest with me.

Alicat · 18-06-2013 3:41pm

Actually lots of people do only want one month at a time. I often try explaining to people that its cheaper to buy the three or six months together but some people genuinely can't afford to do it that way and others just don't care. Also, they were perfectly in the right to make the assumption that you wanted only one month as the prescription is written as one month by three dispensings. They did not 'change' your prescription.

All you had to do was ask for three months. There was no need to be so bloody rude.

mountai · 18-06-2013 3:58pm

It was clear on the prescription 3 months . 1 x 3 = 3 months . How was I being rude by asking (in a polite manner) for the amount prescribed ??. BTW is "Bloody" not being rude???!!!!!!!!!! Do the maths.

Alicat · 18-06-2013 4:09pm

You can pick at it all you want. I'm telling you the majority of people request one month, and refuse the option to take more, for whatever reason. They did absolutely nothing wrong.

mountai · 18-06-2013 4:21pm

Alicat wrote: »

You can pick at it all you want. I'm telling you the majority of people request one month, and refuse the option to take more, for whatever reason. They did absolutely nothing wrong.

So if I returned two more times and got my drugs ---- would a Dispensing charge be applied on these occasions?.

Alicat · 18-06-2013 4:51pm

mountai wrote: »

So if I returned two more times and got my drugs ---- would a Dispensing charge be applied on these occasions?.

Yes.

Now I know that you have immediately latched on to the word 'Yes' that I just typed, and that you will probably disregard/ignore everything I type after it because you've got an answer justifies your rage.

MOST customers want to do it this way. Yes, they agree to pay more money in the long run. To an obviously money-conscious person such as yourself, I can understand how that is almost unfathomable to you. Why don't they just get it all in one go and save on the dispensing fees? The honest answer is I don't know. I have no idea what goes through people's minds. I personally, if I had the money, would get my prescription all in one go. In fact, if I go out to a customer with the full three/six months all in one go, most of them are absolutely horrified, "No! I only wanted one month!"

Maybe money is quite tight for them and they genuinely can't afford to pay a lump sum. Maybe they're not very good at maths, no matter how I explain it to them. With some customers, I get the feeling that they think I'm trying to 'take all the business' by getting them to purchase the whole prescription in the one shop?? I can't explain it, but I'm telling you that because this is the general attitude of MOST customers, it is standard to dispense one month at a time.

If YOU don't want to do it that way, that is fine, you are perfectly entitled to get the whole lot in one go. But know that you are in the minority by doing that so don't lambaste every pharmacist in the country because you didn't explain to them what you wanted. No pharmacist will refuse you, you just have to explain that you want it that way. It's not that difficult.

L1011 · 18-06-2013 5:16pm

I thought something had to not be common knowledge to be "exposed"?

Also, accusing someone of changing a prescription is extremely serious, and you have just done so wildly incorrectly.

So what else do you have that you're threatening to "expose" then? Seeing as you'll see being told you were wrong as abuse.

Jumboman · 18-06-2013 5:30pm

mountai wrote: »

The more abuse I get on this subject the more I will expose !!!1

The Latest --

Went to a Chemist this morning, prescription for ---- 3 months supply of a particular drug. Was charged E13.39 .Asked "Is this 3 months supply ?"
answer "No" Asked "What does it say on the prescription?" Answer "One Month X 3" Asked "Why have you changed , my Doctors Prescription?" Ans "Unless you ASK for 3 moths supply you are issued with 1 months " asked "Why?" Shrug of shoulder "Most people only want one months supply". Demanded 3 months supply and paid
wait for it
E26.27

Now you dont need to be as clever as a "Pet Dog" to work out what is going on here. Its obvious that this "Professional" will profit by more than 30% by issuing 3 prescriptions rather than one !!!

For all you concerned Pharmacists --- Is it legal to change a prescription to maximize your Profit potential??

At least when Dick Turpin and The General, relieved us of our hard earned , they paid us the compliment, of wearing a
MASK !!!

They tried to pull the same scam on me when I had a Prescription for 3 months antibiotics they would only give me one months supply of them, now I can see why they did it. F**king gangsters.

trishasaffron · 18-06-2013 5:35pm

There is so much wrong with the current charging system its hard to know where to start. Pharmacists are generally smart, honest people so I almost feel sorry for them as they try to defend the indefensible.

Unless you give up work and have limitless time to go around comparing prices its impossible to achieve the level of price transparency we should have. So the first thing is to achieve transparency.

The next thing is the whole generics issue. Lots of energy has been put into encouraging doctors to dispense generics but the problem is the price of the generics in Ireland is often very close to the branded price unlike in other European countries - so the question is why can't we get a better price for generics in Ireland.

Then there is the obscurity of the pricing policies of different pharmacies. Again a PhD in pharmacy pricing policy is needed to get the best price.

No doubt there is more.

Its mad Ted.

Mountainsandh · 18-06-2013 5:39pm

sandin wrote: »

Finally, don't be comparing prices with other countries. Other countries have different pricing structures.
.

The example of Spain does not apply to France, where you pay upfront for the medication, and get refunded afterwards. On prescribed medication there are little labels that you pull off and stick onto a Securite Sociale sheet, to claim your refund.

The cost of medication upfront is very cheap. Much cheaper than Ireland.

And I know, every time someone posts something like what I have above in this forum, a swarm of retailers gets at you like mosquitoes with cries of "ah but rates", "oh but running costs", "don't compare under any circumstances". But I'm not buying that (pun intended

)

This attitude is not helping the situation to be honest, and does nothing to restore trust in some retailers since the boom years. (not all retailers)

SeaDaily · 18-06-2013 5:44pm

mountai wrote: »

The more abuse I get on this subject the more I will expose !!!1

The Latest --

Went to a Chemist this morning, prescription for ---- 3 months supply of a particular drug. Was charged E13.39 .Asked "Is this 3 months supply ?"
answer "No" Asked "What does it say on the prescription?" Answer "One Month X 3" Asked "Why have you changed , my Doctors Prescription?" Ans "Unless you ASK for 3 moths supply you are issued with 1 months " asked "Why?" Shrug of shoulder "Most people only want one months supply". Demanded 3 months supply and paid
wait for it
E26.27

Now you dont need to be as clever as a "Pet Dog" to work out what is going on here. Its obvious that this "Professional" will profit by more than 30% by issuing 3 prescriptions rather than one !!!

For all you concerned Pharmacists --- Is it legal to change a prescription to maximize your Profit potential??

At least when Dick Turpin and The General, relieved us of our hard earned , they paid us the compliment, of wearing a
MASK !!!

Your posts are a nightmare to read. Take it easy on the over-use of punctuation and capital letters would you?

mountai · 18-06-2013 6:23pm

SeaDaily wrote: »

Your posts are a nightmare to read. Take it easy on the over-use of punctuation and capital letters would you?

DONT READ THEM

As for Alicat ( should be Alleycat) your attitude is so up your own Ar*e its laughable!!!. Accusing me of being "Rude" when all I looked for, was what was on the prescription. Accusing me of being in a "Rage". Listen Dearie, I"m quite calm and collected on this matter. AFAI"m concerned,the Chemist DID change my prescription from 3 months supply to 1 months ---- and by doing so set himself up for a further RIP OFF.

Alicat · 18-06-2013 6:26pm

They didn't change it. End of.

L1011 · 18-06-2013 6:39pm

mountai wrote: »

AFAI"m concerned,the Chemist DID change my prescription from 3 months supply to 1 months ---- and by doing so set himself up for a further RIP OFF.

And you'd be completely wrong.

Soundman · 18-06-2013 6:47pm

Did it say:

3 months x1?

No. It said 1 month x3 which means 3 dispensings of the 1 month dose. If you wanted or needed them all at once then you should have asked.

L1011 · 18-06-2013 6:48pm

Mountainsandh wrote: »

And I know, every time someone posts something like what I have above in this forum, a swarm of retailers gets at you like mosquitoes with cries of "ah but rates", "oh but running costs", "don't compare under any circumstances". But I'm not buying that (pun intended )

Wholesale costs in Ireland are often significantly higher than retail costs in other countries. This is entirely out of a pharmacists control. They cannot parallel import product like a retail shop can - they have to buy from a legal wholesaler in Ireland.

mountai · 18-06-2013 6:56pm

Soundman wrote: »

Did it say:

3 months x1?

No. It said 1 month x3 which means 3 dispensings of the 1 month dose. If you wanted or needed them all at once then you should have asked.

Incorrect . It said 28 tablets x3 . In my book that means 84 tablets . What part of maths do you not understand. All those years studying and you get it wrong. No where on the form was the word "Month" used. Assuming that we are all mugs . RIP OFF MERCHANTS .

L1011 · 18-06-2013 7:00pm

mountai wrote: »

Incorrect . It said 28 tablets x3 . In my book that means 84 tablets . What part of maths do you not understand. All those years studying and you get it wrong. No where on the form was the word "Month" used. Assuming that we are all mugs . RIP OFF MERCHANTS .

84 tablets means 84 tablets. 28 x 3 means 28 tablets dispensed 3 times.

As far as I can see, in neither of the cases you are ranting about did you actually pay the higher amount, yet you're acting as if your first born was stolen and making extremely serious, entirely untrue claims.

Mountainsandh · 18-06-2013 7:02pm

MYOB wrote: »

Wholesale costs in Ireland are often significantly higher than retail costs in other countries. This is entirely out of a pharmacists control. They cannot parallel import product like a retail shop can - they have to buy from a legal wholesaler in Ireland.

So the chemist who sold me this last medication 30 euros cheaper than the other was selling at a loss ? How kind hearted. Another reason to stay with them.

Alicat · 18-06-2013 7:02pm

mountai wrote: »

Incorrect . It said 28 tablets x3 . In my book that means 84 tablets . What part of maths do you not understand. All those years studying and you get it wrong. No where on the form was the word "Month" used. Assuming that we are all mugs . RIP OFF MERCHANTS .

Yes that means three separate dispensings of 28. If you wanted all 84 without having to utter a word then technically the prescription should have said '______ tabs x 84'. So 'your book' is wrong. And actually, YOU mentioned the word 'month' in your initial post. And the one after that. Forgive us for not being psychic and realising you made the mistake.

L1011 · 18-06-2013 7:04pm

Mountainsandh wrote: »

So the chemist who sold me this last medication 30 euros cheaper than the other was selling at a loss ? How kind hearted. Another reason to stay with them.

Erm. No (well, unlikely). Where the hell are you getting that from?

You were acting as if we could freely compare Irish prices to other countries, and that is all I was referring to.

mountai · 18-06-2013 7:05pm

MYOB wrote: »

84 tablets means 84 tablets. 28 x 3 means 28 tablets dispensed 3 times.

As far as I can see, in neither of the cases you are ranting about did you actually pay the higher amount, yet you're acting as if your first born was stolen and making extremely serious, entirely untrue claims.

Firstly I"m not ranting . Are the doctors working in conjunction with the Chemists?. Why have 3 dispensing charges when 1 will suffice. We are not ALL thick.

TRUST YOUR CHEMIST AT YOUR PERIL

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