Draft Knockout match 2: Knex vs Whatawaster

Bounty Hunter

First off both Knex & Whatawaster will get to reply showing us their teams and tactics for this fixture. Only after that will a poll be added for voting purposes. Please if you aren't competing here don't post until their have done their write ups too

You are to vote on which team you think would win in a straight Vs match up. What constitutes a team more likely to win is totaly up to each voters own discretion but perhaps you can be swayed by either posters write ups especially if you are not 100% familiar with a player in their team because after all any player from any era was eligible to be drafted in this draft so nobody is expected to recognize nor rate every single name.

In previous drafts only those taking part had their votes counted when cast...This is not the case this time, all votes from boards.ie posters will be counted once the polls are added. However in the case of a tied vote only those votes from people who explained why they voted in such a way on thread will count.

people dont have to agree with each others opinions and the draftee's are bound to defend their teams chances but lets try and not go round in circles arguing people and try and keep it civil. Once the two draftees have posted their sides and the write ups to go with them I (or another mod)will add the Polls and 48hrs for voting will begin.

Good luck fellas and have at it!

Knex*

I'll have a write up posted later around 7 or 8.

Best of luck whatawaster.

whatawaster

The Players

Andoni Zubizarreta – few goalkeepers have won more. Back to back league titles with Bilbao in the early 80s were followed by a period of great success with Barcelona, winning a European Cup and four league titles.

Gary Neville – not my favourite person in the world during his playing days, it must be said, but he was the definition of a solid full back. In his prime he was rarely caught out in defense, he had supreme positioning, and in attack (while he had little flair) he was an able contributor.

Paulo Maldini – probably the best defender of my football-watching life. The wonderful stat I often hear about him is that he made an average of 1 tackle every 2 games. His anticipation, decision-making and positional sense were so good he never needed to make those last-ditch saving lunges. Wonderful player

John Charles – can play equally well at both ends of the pitch, he was, by all accounts, just a wonderful all-round footballer. Juventus fans voted him their best ever foreign import, and a nice fact about him is that he was never once carded (yellow or red) in his entire career.

Alan Hansen – a classy, ball-playing centre-back who was the best defender in arguably the best European side ever. He will be as capable as anyone of dealing with the array of attacking talent my opponents will have on show.

Fernando Hierro – perhaps most known as a centre-half but he was just as good in front of the defense and that’s where he’ll likely start for my team. A solid defender and a proper footballer to boot. Scored over 100 goals for Real Madrid. No ordinary stopper.

Graeme Souness (c) – In one sense he is the hardman of my midfield who will be charged with disrupting the creative players on the opposition team. In fact, he will terrify them. But Souness was more than that. He was a dynamic, creative midfielder, capable of scoring and assisting. On the counter-attack, he will get ahead of Costa and Hierro and help make things happen

Rui Costa – Wonderful technique, vision and one of the finest passers I’ve ever seen. Just a beautiful footballer who will add plenty of class to my midfield and will be key to releasing my front players.

John Barnes – One of the most naturally gifted English players ever and one of the finest wingers to grace the modern game. His pace, balance, dribbling and under-rated goal scoring ability will be key to my side.

Ferenc Puskas – A goal a game man, even at the highest level, club or country. One of the best forwards there has ever been, that much is not in doubt.

Ian Rush – His goalscoring will obviously be key to my side’s success, but his work-rate will be equally important. A tireless runner who won’t give the opposition defense a moment to linger on the ball.



Strengths of my side

1 ) My 11 players have between them won 65 league titles and 23 European Cup/Champions League titles. They are born winners every one of them

2) I believe my defense to be among the strongest in the draft. Maldini and Neville are two of the best defensive full-backs. Charles and Hansen are both quality centre-backs who have done it at the highest level over extended periods of time. Hierro will shield them and supplement them when we are under pressure. Souness’ steel will provide another welcome layer of cover. There are some great teams in this draft, and I think it will take their very best to break my team down. We will set up to keep things tight, make no mistake.

3) When we win the ball back, Hansen and Hierro have the composure and skill to play it out of defense. Rui Costa will be the key man in my midfield in linking defense and attack. Expect Barnes to make quick breaks with and without the ball, while the movement of Rush and the skill and vision of Puskas will cause any defense problems.

4) Versatility. Against certain opposition, or when chasing a game, I’ll have the ability to change things up. Charles can go up front and Hierro can drop back into defense.


I will wait until Knex has posted his team before I talk about this specific matchup

Knex*

Brief

Firstly, I think not only does my side have the best defence in the draft, but also it is perhaps the side possessing the most leadership and character in the entire draft.

A team of born winners and captains, ultimately my side is solid and hard to beat 1st, while also possessing quality, clinicalness and a certain amount of flair up front.

Do not underestimate my defenders and the protective blanket provided by both Rijkaard and Effenberg when assessing whatawaster's attack, they will not be easily beaten.
In my eyes, whatever about winning the match, my team will not be beaten regardless of the opposition. But when you have the likes of Ronaldinho, Gerrard and Rummenigge as a focal point for attacks, the opportunity to win the game will always be there.

The midfield trio is as good as you will find in this draft in that all the players compliment each other and the system they are playing quite well.

Players

Oliver Kahn - Little needs to be said about this man, one of my favourite players growing up and one of the most successful, and certainly one of the best, goalies of all time. The first of many leaders in my squad and with his sizable stack of individual awards I genuinely believe there isn't a better keeper in this draft.

Djalma Santos - Considered by many as the greatest right back of all time, Djalma Santos was a rock at the back while also expressing the usual Brazilian flair when venturing into attack. Along with Franz Beckenbauer, the captain of my side, he is one of only two players to be included into three FIFA World Cup All Star teams

John Terry - Perhaps the pick I'll have to defend the most, which should speak volumes for the quality of my side, but don't let the modern day John Terry, or his dislikable character, warp your thinking. This is one of the greatest Center Backs of the modern era and in my eyes, the greatest center back the Premier League has seen. His talents are clearly recognised across Europe as he has won Uefa's best defender award three times. Chelsea's second greatest ever player after Frank Lampard. Once again, Terry adds the leadership qualities and the never give in attitude that runs through the spine of my team.

Franz Beckenbauer - Der Kaiser is one of the greatest footballers ever to play the game and he epitomises my side. A born winner and a fantastic leader who orchestrates the game from the back, pulling the strings and also providing the resilience and grit that I want my team to have.


Stuart Pearce - Up there with the likes of Irwin, and a notch below Ashley Cole, as one of the best left backs of the Premier League era. Played the game with a psycho like passion but could play ball as much as he kicked man. Himself and Beckenbauer should be more than enough of a match for Puskas.

Rijkaard - One of the best defensive midfielders to ever play the game, Rijkaard will shield my already formidable defence while providing a fluid and stylish transition into attack.

Effenberg - Another leader, another nutter. Effenberg at his peak was a fearsome and quality center midfielder who provides a great balance in my midfield trio. Could do it all and has won everything the game offered him at Club level. Voted Uefa's club footballer of the year in 2001, Effenberg will go down as one of the Bayern Munich greats.

Gerrard - Perhaps one of the best known players in my side, Steven Gerrard is Mr Liverpool and is a big game player. At his peak there were very few players as explosive and clinical as he was and added to his all round ability he rounds off one of the best midfield trios in the draft in my opinion.

Ronalindinho - The main man in my attack who at his peak was the best player on the planet. Up there with some of the top picks in the draft, such as Zidane, and could be argued that from 2002 till 2006 his form was as good as anyone who has graced the footballing world. A true phenomenon with the ball at his feet.

Nedved - A fantastic player for both Lazio and Juve who was immense at his peak. Winner of the Ballon D'or in 2003, Nedved was renowned for his energy, dribbling, goal scoring abilities. A great playmaker to add to Gerrard and Ronaldinho.

Karl-Heinz Rummenigge - Two time European Footballer of the Year and one of the best forwards to ever pull on a German shirt, Rummenigge was a complete forward who could score every type of goal, bully defenders, and create something out of nothing. Another former captain who lead my team excellently from the front. The perfect compliment for Gerrard as his playing style is similar to Torres when the Spaniard was at his peak.

Edit: Ps. My players have won far too many titles to add them all up

Bounty Hunter

poll added,

so who would win lads and lassies Knex or Whatawaster

redzerdrog

although i worry about Knex AM trio all taking up the same space centrally and hate the idea of nedved on the right I still think his team does enough here to win it.

Donnielighto

Knex, solid the whole way through and his biggest weakness, terry is paired with a brilliant sweeper defender in beckenbaur so that would limit his trouble, cant see barnes gettin much change outta santos, maldini would have nedved shackled but the rest goes to knex. that midfield.....

I am pie

Knex on the basis that he mf 3 + beckenbauer will be too mobile and too physical for hierro hansen and Rui Costa...Souness would be like King Kanut in there trying to stop the tide.

My only worry for Knex´s crew would be the Ronaldinho might struggle to work his intricate style into that extremely direct team. You might argue that he would drift out of the game and leave Pearce exposed , for me psycho is a weak link in there...Neville alone could occupy him and Puskas would make a mockery of him in the channel between him and the CB. However, Frank R would have enough about him to get over and cover.

Knex's boys by about 3-1 for me.

Jax Teller

Close game . Could see Knex just knicking it though

bucketybuck

Knex will win at a canter. I don't really know what the plan was with whatawaster's team, but it all looks a little underwhelming. Rui Costa, Barnes, Rush, they were great players sure but when it comes to some of the legends picked they seem like a level below. And what is the plan for attacking? Its one thing to say that Hierro and Costa will bring the ball forward but I imagine Rjikaard will have something to say about that. I suspect Rush and Puska will see very little of the football in this match.

Knex's team has good balance, with qulaity players where they should be and the ability to influence play in all areas of the field. Only one winner here.

Morte

Knex for me. Same as bucketybuck, I just don't feel Rui Costa, Barnes and Rush belong here. I like the fact that there's scope to shift Charles around but it's lacking quality up front. The team looks good up till there.

What kind of formation did Beckenbauer play in? I got the impression a big part of his game was bursting forward. Would that be like Carvalho charging forward which Terry is used to covering or would he have to curtail this?

Moneymaker

Knex wins this for me, that is a formidable side to say the least. He just has more quality around the park in attack in particular.

Nedved was two footed so being on the right should be no issue to him ftr.

Winston Payne

I've plumped for Knex as the winner. I believe his midfield will win the day. I don't like Hierro in the holding role and think Rui Costa's a bit lightweight in this context. The energy that Effenberg and Gerrard would provide will swamp the centre of the pitch and Rijkaard would have enough room to calmly regulate possession and circulate the ball to good effect, particularly as neither Puskas or Rui Costa will have the energy or work rate to press.

Nevded provides fantastic energy on the right and I believe that along with Santos will mean Barnes is left with a huge amount to do on that side. Pearce might not be the most penetrative overlapping full back, but he will overlap and Puskas likely won't track him. This either leaves Ronaldinho in a fair amount of space,or if Souness tracks him wide, a big gap in the middle for Effenberg to come through. Puskas would be a danger with his drifting movement and playmaking ability but he won't see enough of the ball with his team's struggles in midfield. On top of all of that, Beckenbauer was an adroit man-marker which means that Rush will be closely watched.

On the opposite hand, the physical dynamism and sheer variety of threat that Knex will pose against whatawaster's defence, between Effenberg driving from deep, Gerrard, Nedved or Ronaldinho either beating a man, threading a pass through or shooting combined with the lack of cover would likely be overwhelming. Rummenigge's movement was very clever too, he'd have a field day interchanging with the three behind him. whatawaster's defence would take some beating but I believe that Knex's team has the quality and it would beat it.

G.K.

Ronaldinho, of all people, could come back to bite Knex later on in the draft but I think he has it here.

I could do a lengthy writeup but frankly my opinion isn't to dissimilar to what others have said, though it's closer than most have said too. Also think it's harsh to suggest Rush and Rui Costa weren't up to this level. Costa may be on the lower end, yes, but as finishing forwards go there's not enough of a difference between Rush and Peyroteo, Van Nistelrooy, and Muller to make Rush not worth picking. Muller, yes was a level above, but the others?

As Moneymaker says, Knex has the overall better quality team, and that's what will win it for him. No glaring weaknesses in WaW's team except perhaps Puskas's defensive work, but overall quality should prevail. Shifting Charles to attack can't help him either, I'm afraid.

jem

Dont think as easy as many have said here.
Whatawaster has a brilliant defence with excellent defensive midfielders. the team would't let a lot of goals in. Souness capeable of man marking/ stiting in front of a defence or attacking and scoreing a goal.
Much has been made of puscas not doing a lot of work- well he had one of the hardest working strikers beside him in rush.
From what I have read puscas was up there with Pele/ maradonna.
I think that kenx is weakish at back with terry and pearse.
Result 2-1 whatawaster

Amirani

Knex looks a better team going forward while whatawaster is probably superior defensively but is more limited in midfield. A close game I reckon, but whatawaster to lose out by a single goal.

Knex 2-1 whatawaster

SlickRic

whatawaster's team is being completely unfairly undersold here by most.

i honestly think he's suffering from the fact that so many of his players are from past generations.

a spine of Zubi, Hansen, Maldini, Hierro, Souness, with Puskas and Rush up front is an immense one. not to mention John Charles who is renowned as one of the greats in defence and attack.

i honestly think it'd be a draw. 1-1. if anything, 2-1 whatawaster. i think his defence is slightly more reliable.

PerrinV2

Gone for knex,despite it being a bit crowded in the middle it might just be too much for whatawaster

Knex*

Cheers for all the responses lads. This whole thing would be lost without ye're input and there are some very detailed posts here.

---

While I agree that some people are perhaps making light of whatawaster's team somewhat, the notion from one or two posters that I may have a weak defence is baffling to say the least. Especially when you consider the midfield trio that is in front of it.

Terry is the perfect partner for Beckenbauer. As one poster mentioned, when Terry was at his peak he was playing alongside Carvalho who would be inferior to the German but similar in style. I also think people are underestimating Terry somewhat. He was formidable in his peak and the best center back in Europe for a few years.

Best center back in the PL era and Chelsea's second best ever player. I know he's dislikable and recent form is nowhere near his best, but I really shouldn't have to defend him as much as I know I'm going to.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Knex, his team is phenomenally strong all over.

eagle eye

Knex for me too, just too strong overall and wins this one easily imo.

Bounty Hunter

SlickRic wrote: »

whatawaster's team is being completely unfairly undersold here by most.

i honestly think he's suffering from the fact that so many of his players are from past generations.

a spine of Zubi, Hansen, Maldini, Hierro, Souness, with Puskas and Rush up front is an immense one. not to mention John Charles who is renowned as one of the greats in defence and attack.

i honestly think it'd be a draw. 1-1. if anything, 2-1 whatawaster. i think his defence is slightly more reliable.

honestly I think it's the way he displayed his formation. It looks awfully defensive with huge gape between midfield and attack and between individual attacking players. His defenders are of such a quality that he doesent need to have them sitting so deep though imo and if he had simply displayed his team differently he might be doing much better here. I mean even after stating that im finding it difficult to vote for him after looking at his side as shown as I think Knex's team looks much better balanced and that his midfield could be the deciding factor here

jem

Knex. wrote: »

the notion from one or two posters that I may have a weak defence is baffling to say the least. Especially when you consider the midfield trio that is in front of it.

Terry is the perfect partner for Beckenbauer. As one poster mentioned, when Terry was at his peak he was playing alongside Carvalho who would be inferior to the German but similar in style. I also think people are underestimating Terry somewhat. He was formidable in his peak and the best center back in Europe for a few years.

Best center back in the PL era and Chelsea's second best ever player. I know he's dislikable and recent form is nowhere near his best, but I really shouldn't have to defend him as much as I know I'm going to.

As one of those who said you have a weakish defence I will respond.
IMHO Terry was a big hearted , strong defender. Very good in the air and would put his body on the line for his team- BUT to me very like Jamie Carragar but he was slow even at his peak, could be caught out by a small tricky striker and while very good isn't at this level , a level below perhaps.
SP was in a lot of ways very simular (psycho as he was known) was a genuine hard man who could play a bit. again the class of striker/winger that he would be up against here would IMHO be a little behond him. Remember we are talking about the total cream here not the usual standard that was in the EL at the time. Most of the best players then played in Spain or Italy as there wasn't the money in the English game at the time.

I am pie

For me it's the physicality of the midfield, Souness aside the other 2 are really going to struggle to match up against that direct and skillful trio Knex has in there. Souey could conceivable see red trying to stop the tide also. Temperament was not always ideal!

Rikand

Maldini wins this all by himself

Knex*

Rickylovesuall wrote: »

Maldini wins this all by himself

He's not even the best defender on the pitch?

Knex*

jem wrote: »

As one of those who said you have a weakish defence I will respond.
IMHO Terry was a big hearted , strong defender. Very good in the air and would put his body on the line for his team- BUT to me very like Jamie Carragar but he was slow even at his peak, could be caught out by a small tricky striker and while very good isn't at this level , a level below perhaps.
SP was in a lot of ways very simular (psycho as he was known) was a genuine hard man who could play a bit. again the class of striker/winger that he would be up against here would IMHO be a little behond him. Remember we are talking about the total cream here not the usual standard that was in the EL at the time. Most of the best players then played in Spain or Italy as there wasn't the money in the English game at the time.

Cheers for the response.

I'd have to disagree with the Carragher comparison as I think its too easy one to make and a bit of a lazy comparison if I'm being honest.

I'm a huge Liverpool fan and I love Carra, but he was never at the same level as John Terry.

Morte

SlickRic wrote: »

whatawaster's team is being completely unfairly undersold here by most.

i honestly think he's suffering from the fact that so many of his players are from past generations.

a spine of Zubi, Hansen, Maldini, Hierro, Souness, with Puskas and Rush up front is an immense one. not to mention John Charles who is renowned as one of the greats in defence and attack.

i honestly think it'd be a draw. 1-1. if anything, 2-1 whatawaster. i think his defence is slightly more reliable.

Most aren't criticising the oldies though, it's the newer players that are the problem. Rui Costa wasn't in the same class as Pirlo or Kaka. Barnes and Rush were on the Liverpool team that dominated England but weren't really around for the Souness and Hansen team which dominated Europe. The immediate gut reaction for most people I think is that there's a few passengers to carry for the rest of the team and that's very hard to make up.

To be more positive, it's definitely one of the best put together teams. There's no question of players being shoehorned in somewhere and each seems chosen for a role. But I think once a team is reasonably balanced most teams can bring greater quality to bear going forward.

Moneymaker

Knex. wrote: »

He's not even the best defender on the pitch?

Yes, he is.

Knex*

Moneymaker wrote: »

Yes, he is.

As good as Maldini was, he was not the player that Beckenbauer was in his prime.

Moneymaker

Knex. wrote: »

As good as Maldini was, he was not the player that Beckenbauer was in his prime.

Beckenbaeur wasn't marking Maradonna when he was 16

It's semantics really, they're both amazing players and two of the three greatest defenders ever(Baresi being the other).

Bounty Hunter

So Knex is our first quater finalist having got 77% of the vote here, congrats man

hard luck whatawaster, a quality team no doubt as all in this draft are