Okay. This I condone.

starling

B0jangles wrote: »

I think this is a pretty good summation of what modern feminism is broadly about:

http://suzeart.tumblr.com/post/49225090860/a-list-of-mens-rights-issues-that-feminism-is

That's brilliant. Crucially, "Feminists hate patriarchy. We don't hate you."

I particularly like the last paragraph:
" The fact that you blame feminists—your allies—for problems against which they have been struggling for decades suggests that supporting men isn’t nearly as important to you as resenting women. We care about your problems a lot. Could you try caring about ours?"

tritium

On jeebus!!!!!!

How many threads have we let degrade into this rape culture nonsense at this stage?

Mods, seriously!

clairefontaine

This is a perfect example of how abuse breeds abuse.

This women got an unwanted picture so she repeats the same action onto someone else but somehow thinks its ok to do so because her starting position was victim. So she made someone else a victim.

How did she get his mother's phone number or email?

Crooked Jack

tritium wrote: »

On jeebus!!!!!!

How many threads have we let degrade into this rape culture nonsense at this stage?

Mods, seriously!

Exactly, this is what the ludicrous term rape culture does, it distracts from the actual issue.
Far from the feared patriarchy, the only thing belittling rape is this phrase.

jill_valentine

If this idiot had been exposing himself to some random woman down an alleyway, you guys would see why this is a problem. Just like a creepy old trenchcoat flasher down by a canal isn't harmless, modern picture message flashers aren't either. Sending somebody an unsolicited picture of your genitals is not the same as sending them a picture of a smiley face or something, it's a deliberate act of douchebaggery intended to bother the other person, to make them subject to your crazy whims.

Clue - he didn't send her the pic "because he thought she would like it". Check out the other messages he sent her.

So... hey, maybe the mam didn't deserve to get the picture. But maybe having to have that conversation with a woman he has to look in the damn eye might teach him some manners in the long run.

Jimmy 5F

I don't really see how Ireland is a patriarchial society. Women have just as much power as men as far as I can see. I'm open to correction as I don't know every intricate detail of Irish law for example.

Carlos Orange

starling wrote: »

Rape itself is on the more serious end of a spectrum of behaviours that all share a common basis: that women don't have the right to be treated equally.

A definition of rape that applies solely to women.
How egalitarian.

Jimmy 5F

jill_valentine wrote: »

If this idiot had been exposing himself to some random woman down an alleyway, you guys would see why this is a problem. Just like a creepy old trenchcoat flasher down by a canal isn't harmless, modern picture message flashers aren't either. Sending somebody an unsolicited picture of your genitals is not the same as sending them a picture of a smiley face or something, it's a deliberate act of douchebaggery intended to bother the other person, to make them subject to your crazy whims.

Clue - he didn't send her the pic "because he thought she would like it". Check out the other messages he sent her.

So... hey, maybe the mam didn't deserve to get the picture. But maybe having to have that conversation with a woman he has to look in the damn eye might teach him some manners in the long run.

What about the other naked picture sender, she doesn't have to look her victim in the eye.

clairefontaine

Jimmy 5F wrote: »

I don't really see how Ireland is a patriarchial society. Women have just as much power as men as far as I can see. I'm open to correction as I don't know every intricate detail of Irish law for example.

Ireland is run by the biggest patriarchy going, the RC.

Of course its patriarchal.

WilyCoyote

In this thread it's easy to spot the women that can't keep a boyfriend or never had a boyfriend.

jill_valentine

WilyCoyote wrote: »

In this thread it's easy to spot the women that can't keep a boyfriend or never had a boyfriend.

Please elaborate on this post in great detail.

Jimmy 5F

clairefontaine wrote: »

Ireland is run by the biggest patriarchy going, the RC.

Of course its patriarchal.

Religion is patriarchal but Irish society isn't. How does that make women's lives worse or give them less power, how many want to be priests?

WilyCoyote

jill_valentine wrote: »

Please elaborate on this post in great detail.

What Jill, no Jack?

clairefontaine

Jimmy 5F wrote: »

Religion is patriarchal but Irish society isn't. How does that make women's lives worse or give them less power, how many want to be priests?

Symphiotomies
Magdalene Laundries
Pressure to have 10 babies
Freedom to travel

Jimmy 5F

clairefontaine wrote: »

Symphiotomies
Magdalene Laundries
Pressure to have 10 babies
Freedom to travel

I think you may be stuck in a quantum time paradox there. Help is on the way.

WilyCoyote

clairefontaine wrote: »

Symphiotomies
Magdalene Laundries
Pressure to have 10 babies
Freedom to travel

Brehon laws?

LizT

Did she actually send it to his mother or just threaten to? He's bad for sending her the pic but she's just as stupid for reacting the way she did. I would have just told him to piss off and ignored any more texts.

GalwayGuy2

Skipped ahead a few pages, but Feministing did actually run a 101 on how to fist someone:P

That's brilliant. Crucially, "Feminists hate patriarchy. We don't hate you."

I particularly like the last paragraph:
" The fact that you blame feminists—your allies—for problems against which they have been struggling for decades suggests that supporting men isn’t nearly as important to you as resenting women. We care about your problems a lot. Could you try caring about ours?"

You could probably swap the genders and it could come across as a piece supporting Male Rights Activists. :P

But, what that last paragraph actually did was segregate the genders. It separates "women's issues" from "men issues". It also suggests that the critiques of feminism all come from men, and anybody who does critique feminism does it because they "resent women". It's actually ,strangely enough, contradicts the line "Feminists hate patriarchy, We don't hate you", as they are saying that the people who hate feminism hate the individuals, rather than the structure itself.

Just my thoughts

WilyCoyote

All these male animals that the wimmin are on about. Which parent had the most influence in the upbringing until they were in their early teens? I think that this issue should be visited in light of their behavior in later years.

Crooked Jack

WilyCoyote wrote: »

What Jill, no Jack?

I'm Jack. I believe her OH is called Chris Redfield

starling

Crooked Jack wrote: »

No there arent, there are threads where people utterly condemn the rapist, say he should be jailed and/or chemically castrated, and then suggest that while these dangers exist, wrong though they are, women should take certain precautions to protect themselves. These comments, by people whose primary concern is women's safety, are then jumped upon by feminazis who scream "victim blame!!!"

People who hear an Irish woman was raped in India and respond with "Well what did she expect going to a place like that?" are victim blaming. Suggesting that the victim should have somehow known he was a rapist is victim blaming. Suggesting that she was in any way responsible for what some scumbag did to her is victim blaming.
And btw, "feminazis" is a very childish insult. I have made no such insults about you, I don't think that's very civil.

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Nope, that sounds more like the Irish culture of "dont get involved, a lamentable and (unlike rape culture) very real culture in Ireland that people often succumb to because of their own personal experiences.
For example, outside the students union in Coleraine once this guy was screaming at his girlfriend, getting very aggressive and looked like he was about to hit her. I stepped in, asked him to calm down and then she turned on me screaming it was none of my business and "did i think i was some kind of fu(king hero." etc...
That's where the reluctance to step in comes from.

it's not the same situation at all though. I would hesitate to get involved if a couple are having a screaming match precisely because of the reaction you got, which I think was sh1tty btw.
It was clear that I did not know this person and that I was very scared. Perhaps the people who did not get involved were afraid of him too, as he was huge, drunk and had got on outside the four courts, whereupon everybody learned what a scumbag he was.
However I still think that if he had actually been punching me rather than groping me, someone would have stepped in; there were plenty of apparently able bodied people who could have subdued him. I just think that they didn't think it was serious enough to warrant stepping in because they did not see what e was doing as "assault". They weren't taking it as seriously as a physical fight.

Crooked Jack wrote: »

For what it's worth, I would have said something if I saw that on the luas, dont tar us all with the same brush just because Jackeens are cowards (before any Dubs out there get annoyed, I'm only messing )

I'm sure you would have, your previous posts in other threads have suggested that you are quite gentlemanly in your dealings with people IRL ( name calling of feminists aside). But I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush. I'm not saying that everyone perpetuates rape culture, knowingly or otherwise. I'm saying that not everyone recognises or challenges it.
For all the posters calling for castration of rapists there are plenty who insist that this or that particular incident of a man forcing unwanted sexual contact on a woman is not sexual assault but harmless fun. Look at the thread about the Garda sexually harrassing the beangard, there are posters complaining that she is "playing the victim" and that it was all blown out of proportion.

Crooked Jack wrote: »

suggesting it is on the same spectrum as rape or somehow promotes rape is the same as suggesting pushing someone promotes murder.

This analogy just implies that you're downplaying the seriousness of things like street harrassment or groping or sending unsolicited pictures of your dick and harrassing the recipient when she tells you to stop.
It's more akin to saying a culture of violence makes murder more likely.

WilyCoyote

Crooked Jack wrote: »

I'm Jack. I believe her OH is called Chris Redfield

Thanks for the heads up on that Crooked Jack. Perhaps I need to visit the gym more often if I take on the bould Jill

starling

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

Skipped ahead a few pages, but Feministing did actually run a 101 on how to fist someone:P

And why not?:) I'd definitely say that was the kind of thing you might want to get a few tips on before you try it

Gummy Panda

Crooked Jack wrote: »

I'm Jack. I believe her OH is called Chris Redfield

But is that the voice of Enrico?

Czarcasm

LizT wrote: »

Did she actually send it to his mother or just threaten to? He's bad for sending her the pic but she's just as stupid for reacting the way she did. I would have just told him to piss off and ignored any more texts.

In response to a question on her blog, the woman claims she did indeed forward the pic to Trevor's mom and commented, "Feels good, bro."

Source: http://www.happyplace.com/24408/woman-forward-scummy-guys-dick-pic-to-his-mother


The lesson here is simple - If you're going to send dick pics to randomers, don't act like a fanny when it blows up in your face.

WilyCoyote

Gummy Panda wrote: »

But is that the voice of Enrico?

I believe so. After she took the clenbuterol.

Femme_Fatale

SV wrote: »

A quick google to support my own claim has resulted in finding...this, quotes from various feminists.

“I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honourable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them.” – Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor

“To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he’s a machine, a walking dildo.” -– Valerie Solanas

]“I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig.” — Andrea Dworkin

“Rape is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear” — Susan Brownmiller


“The more famous and powerful I get the more power I have to hurt men.” — Sharon Stone


“In a patriarchal society, all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent.” — Catherine MacKinnon

“The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race.” — Sally Miller Gearhart

“Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometimes gain from the experience.” – Catherine Comins

“All men are rapists and that’s all they are” — Marilyn French

“Probably the only place where a man can feel really secure is in a maximum security prison, except for the imminent threat of release.” — Germaine Greer.



Yawn. I don't think you'd need any kind of bias to realise a clear message right there.

Ah come on, you've only listed the crazies.
You might as well list a bunch of holocaust denier quotes in order to paint a picture of anti Israeli occupation of Palestine.

LizT

WilyCoyote wrote: »

In this thread it's easy to spot the women that can't keep a boyfriend or never had a boyfriend.

I'd love to know how you came to that conclusion and how you think it's in any way relevant.

clairefontaine

Czarcasm wrote: »

Source: http://www.happyplace.com/24408/woman-forward-scummy-guys-dick-pic-to-his-mother


The lesson here is simple - If you're going to send dick pics to randomers, don't act like a fanny when it blows up in your face.

I would like to add to that. Do not forward it to other innocent women.

How random could that have been if she was able send it by text?

How many phone numbers of random peoples mothers do you have?

This is bull****. If you get something obnoxious, don't forward it to someone else who was innocent.

Hes a jerk but so is she. She maybe more so, because she actually KNOWS how it feels to be on the receiving end and did it anyway.

starling

SV wrote: »

I said the vocal majority comes across as man hating, not that ALL do. I also did not say that feminists actually hate men, moreso that they* 'come across' like they do.
The quotes prove that (excluding the ones you pointed out because I couldn't be bothered arguing the point) and yet you seem to want to stick to the fact I could only possibly think that because I'm biased against feminists?

That's completely irrational.

You're so intent on telling people they're wrong about feminists you're not accepting your own argument flaws.


*the vocal majority.

The women you quote "come across" like they hate men to you. They don't represent every feminist in the world. How do you not see that?
There are more than seven vocal, militant neo-Nazis in the world. Do they represent your views about Jews or POC? Would you be okay with people assuming they do just because you're a White man?

GalwayGuy2

And why not? I'd definitely say that was the kind of thing you might want to get a few tips on before you try it

Anything that works :pac:

starling

clairefontaine wrote: »

I would like to add to that. Do not forward it to other innocent women.

How random could that have been if she was able send it by text?

How many phone numbers of random peoples mothers do you have?

As mentioned in the article and earlier in the thread. They are on the same dating website which is where he got her details from. She looked him up on facebook and his profile was public as was his mother's.
She says she doesn't know him and I don't see any reason not to believe her.

WilyCoyote

LizT wrote: »

I'd love to know how you came to that conclusion and how you think it's in any way relevant.

Generally, girls without boyfriends (or boys without girlfriends) are less happy than those with.

Yes it's relevant, as it may explain the bias against men.

Not rocket science, is it?

And before this is taken to mean all girls, I said generally.

Femme_Fatale

WilyCoyote wrote: »

Generally, girls without boyfriends (or boys without girlfriends) are less happy than those with.

Yes it's relevant, as it may explain the bias against men.

Not rocket science, is it?

And before this is taken to mean all girls, I said generally.

Er... no. It's definitely not rocket science. No fear of that. :pac:

A crazed feminist would surely be happy not to have a man...?

Killer Wench

I am not sure if these type of apps are available in Ireland but there is a dating app that will alert a phone user that another user is approaching them who is a member of the site. You pre-program your dating preferences and then when someone who is also using that app approaches you and they match your preferences, your phone goes off. You are permitted to contact that person.

I am not sure if my explanation was clear but here are some of the popular ones:

http://www.howstuffworks.com/cell-phone-apps/5-mobile-dating-apps.htm#page=1

That's my impression of how the guy was able to reach out to the girl.

starling

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

Skipped ahead a few pages, but Feministing did actually run a 101 on how to fist someone:P



You could probably swap the genders and it could come across as a piece supporting Male Rights Activists. :P

But, what that last paragraph actually did was segregate the genders. It separates "women's issues" from "men issues". It also suggests that the critiques of feminism all come from men, and anybody who does critique feminism does it because they "resent women". It's actually ,strangely enough, contradicts the line "Feminists hate patriarchy, We don't hate you", as they are saying that the people who hate feminism hate the individuals, rather than the structure itself.

Just my thoughts

I don't know, most feminists are aware that there are different beliefs in feminist discourse generally an that each sub-group within feminism as a whole could disagree with another on any given point, infighting among feminists is a fairly well acknowledged issue in my experience.
I think it's the context that matters here. That is the post was addressed to mens rights activists and men who criticise feminism with "what about teh menz" type stuff.

SV

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Ah come on, you've only listed the crazies.
You might as well list a bunch of holocaust denier quotes in order to paint a picture of anti Israeli occupation of Palestine.

I would welcome quotes of any feminist to deny any of those quotes or to disagree with them. That is to say, that isn't on this thread right now, as no famous feminist ever will deny or disagree with them.

starling wrote: »

The women you quote "come across" like they hate men to you. They don't represent every feminist in the world. How do you not see that?
There are more than seven vocal, militant neo-Nazis in the world. Do they represent your views about Jews or POC? Would you be okay with people assuming they do just because you're a White man?

Yeah ok, you're clearly not reading a single thing I'm writing. I put it in black and white for you there and you've just let it go way over your head.
Am assuming you're a troll at this stage. Good luck.

WilyCoyote

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Er... no. It's definitely not rocket science. No fear of that. :pac:

A crazed feminist would surely be happy not to have a man...?

That's why he's lying under 6" of concrete in the basement

WilyCoyote

starling wrote: »

I don't know, most feminists are aware that there are different beliefs in feminist discourse generally an that each sub-group within feminism as a whole could disagree with another on any given point, infighting among feminists is a fairly well acknowledged issue in my experience.
I think it's the context that matters here. That is the post was addressed to mens rights activists and men who criticise feminism with "what about teh menz" type stuff.

I should think so. All that testosterone floating about

thiarfearr

starling wrote: »

Neither am I, I've been harassed, groped, threatened and followed in the street right here in Ireland.
It's called "rape culture" because it refers to cultural attitudes to women that help rape to flourish. It seems fairly straightforward to me.

Rape isn't flourishing, jesus. It's abhorred here, and like I said already, rapists are viewed just below pedophiles in society, they're reviled.

starling wrote: »

I was harrassed by some arsehole on the luas one day and every single person on a packed carriage sat there and watched.
If he'd been hitting me, people would (I would hope) have stepped in. But their attitude was "Oh, this kind of thing happens." They just accepted it. Nobody said to him "Leave that girl alone, she's asked you to leave her alone, so just stop." .

That's a cultural thing in this country I think, where very few people seem to get involved in anything. I was threatened and told I'd be stabbed on the luas for money before and nobody did anything.

starling

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Have you ever seen one where the woman initially rejects the man's advances but he perseveres (ie - all of them.) This is what the poster was referring to and you know it. You then changed it to specifically dick pics because your argument fell apart when the poster asked that question

Not really, poster brought romcoms into a discussion of dick pics because he is unclear on what rape culture entails, i didn't "change" anything to dick pics.
However I do see the point he was trying to make and my take on int would be this:
Romcoms often feature men and women doing creepy sh1t that would probably get you arrested in real life, however, if there is a happy ending it usually involves the protagonists coming to respect one another a good deal more than Trevor can be said to respect this lady he sent his picture to.
That is, although romcoms often send unrealistic and unhealthy messages about how we should be treating each other, in general they are nowhere near the level of the aspects of rape culture that cause problems.
Yes, occasionally the jilted boyfriend gets the girl back by standing outside her window holding up a boombox and playing "their song" but that's generally when they've broken up over a misunderstanding, not because she actually never wants to see him again.
I dunno I really haven't seen a romcom in a long time so you'd have to give me actual specifics before I could really make any other comment on them.

Crooked Jack

starling wrote: »

Not really, poster brought romcoms into a discussion of dick pics because he is unclear on what rape culture entails, i didn't "change" anything to dick pics.
However I do see the point he was trying to make and my take on int would be this:
Romcoms often feature men and women doing creepy sh1t that would probably get you arrested in real life, however, if there is a happy ending it usually involves the protagonists coming to respect one another a good deal more than Trevor can be said to respect this lady he sent his picture to.
That is, although romcoms often send unrealistic and unhealthy messages about how we should be treating each other, in general they are nowhere near the level of the aspects of rape culture that cause problems.
Yes, occasionally the jilted boyfriend gets the girl back by standing outside her window holding up a boombox and playing "their song" but that's generally when they've broken up over a misunderstanding, not because she actually never wants to see him again.
I dunno I really haven't seen a romcom in a long time so you'd have to give me actual specifics before I could really make any other comment on them.

You're totally attempting to distract from what the poster said here. Another poster had previously made the point that rape culture included a guy asking a girl out and not taking no for an answer.
The other poster then wrote that if that's the case all rom-coms must be perpetuating rape culture.
He was making a point about how what constitutes "rape culture" is largely vague and frankly preposterous.
You then made it specifically about the dick pics because that's easier to defend against, it's not, however, what he was saying.

starling

thiarfearr wrote: »

Rape isn't flourishing, jesus. It's abhorred here, and like I said already, rapists are viewed just below pedophiles in society, they're reviled.

Yes, everybody agrees rape is bad, but that's not what I'm talking about. "Rape culture" doesn't mean a culture that overtly celebrates rape or does not punish rapists (though some of them do get fierce short sentences)
Rape culture is stuff like taking a rape victims claim less seriously because she was drunk or at a party or flirted with the guy beforehand. Not everyone agrees that that kind of stuff is irrelevant when it actually comes down to sex without consent. Some people will honestly believe the bloke "thought she wanted it" and openly mock the idea that he should have made sure she was as into it as he was. Sone people will buy into the misconception of how common false rape accusations are (like oh she was drunk and she regretted it next day so she said it was rape) when actually that kind of thing is quite rare.

thiarfearr wrote: »

That's a cultural thing in this country I think, where very few people seem to get involved in anything. I was threatened and told I'd be stabbed on the luas for money before and nobody did anything.

Well, that's just sh1tty, but again I'd suggest it's not a comparable situation. The bloke in my story was alone and unarmed not to mention very drunk. I doubt that two or three other passengers couldn't have restrained him without any danger to themselves, whereas in your case they were probably afraid of being stabbed. He was physically stronger than me because he was a big fat pr1ck and I'm disabled. I still think if he'd been hitting me they would have taken it more seriously.

Edit: And just because people profess to abhor rape doesn't mean it isn't flourishing, if everyone really abhorred rape it wouldn't keep happening all the time.

starling

WilyCoyote wrote: »

I should think so. All that testosterone floating about

Oh right because feminists aren't "feminine" yeah, welcome to the 1970's. That's really mature. Why are you so desperate to insult women who disagree with you?

jill_valentine

Crooked Jack wrote: »

suggesting it is on the same spectrum as rape or somehow promotes rape is the same as suggesting pushing someone promotes murder.

Saying the act itself "promotes" rape culture is inaccurate, however, indecent exposure is often associated with other sexualised crimes because it is on the low end of the same spectrum. It comes from the same impulse - the creepy alleyway flasher isn't doing it because he thinks the women he targets are going to enjoy the show, he's doing it because he gets a thrill from imposing on their personal bubble in a sexualised way. It's an act of sexualised psychological aggression against a stranger, even if it's not a physical one. So while it's nowhere near the same tier as rape, it isn't at all true to suggest there's no relationship at all between the two.

What could be said to "promote rape culture" would be if, for instance, somebody were to indecently expose themselves to someone, then hurl abuse at her when she turns the tables, only for a bunch of people's immediate reaction be to try and minimise it as much as possible, or rush to explain how anybody who sees a problem with it is at fault.

starling

psinno wrote: »

A definition of rape that applies solely to women.
How egalitarian.

Nice whataboutery there, but I think we can all agree that the vast majority of rapes are perpetrated by men upon women. A discussion of rape culture will often focus on messages about women in society for that reason. Male on male rape involves different factors.

starling

Crooked Jack wrote: »

You're totally attempting to distract from what the poster said here. Another poster had previously made the point that rape culture included a guy asking a girl out and not taking no for an answer.
The other poster then wrote that if that's the case all rom-coms must be perpetuating rape culture.
He was making a point about how what constitutes "rape culture" is largely vague and frankly preposterous.
You then made it specifically about the dick pics because that's easier to defend against, it's not, however, what he was saying.

Well, I don't think that what constitutes rape culture is vague or preposterous, so there isn't really anywhere to go from there, but like i said, he would have to give a specific romcom plot for me to make any further comment about it.

Crooked Jack

starling wrote: »

People who hear an Irish woman was raped in India and respond with "Well what did she expect going to a place like that?" are victim blaming. Suggesting that the victim should have somehow known he was a rapist is victim blaming. Suggesting that she was in any way responsible for what some scumbag did to her is victim blaming.

Who responded like that? Certainly not anyone I know. The only reaction i've heard is a sincere hope that they catch the kunt and lock him a hole for the rest of his life.
Once again, you're taking a general issue and putting a highly emotive specific incident that doesnt apply to it because it's easier to defend against.
You are attacking things that nobody has said, which seems to be a common tactic among some of the posters here.

starling wrote: »

And btw, "feminazis" is a very childish insult. I have made no such insults about you, I don't think that's very civil.

I didnt direct it specifically against you and I use it because as I pointed out in a previous post, I have a huge amount of respect for feminism (post 186). I do not class some of the hysterical man-hating and rape-belittling we've seen on here as feminism and I wont disgrace genuine feminism or feminists by associating it with this muck.
I'll admit the term is probably a little incendiary but it's sadly accurate when it comes to some of the posters on here.

starling wrote: »

it's not the same situation at all though. I would hesitate to get involved if a couple are having a screaming match precisely because of the reaction you got, which I think was sh1tty btw.
It was clear that I did not know this person and that I was very scared. Perhaps the people who did not get involved were afraid of him too, as he was huge, drunk and had got on outside the four courts, whereupon everybody learned what a scumbag he was.
However I still think that if he had actually been punching me rather than groping me, someone would have stepped in; there were plenty of apparently able bodied people who could have subdued him. I just think that they didn't think it was serious enough to warrant stepping in because they did not see what e was doing as "assault". They weren't taking it as seriously as a physical fight.

Well I wasnt there and neither of us know what people on the Luas were thinking. I know it's not the same situation, I'm just saying that people in Ireland are more likely to not want to get involved in something, rather than be of the opinion that unwarranted groping is not a big deal.
Like most sane people, I think it's horrendous and unacceptable. It is the action of a despicable individual. it is not however part of any societal culture of acceptance of such acts.

starling wrote: »

I'm sure you would have, your previous posts in other threads have suggested that you are quite gentlemanly in your dealings with people IRL ( name calling of feminists aside). But I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush. I'm not saying that everyone perpetuates rape culture, knowingly or otherwise. I'm saying that not everyone recognises or challenges it.
For all the posters calling for castration of rapists there are plenty who insist that this or that particular incident of a man forcing unwanted sexual contact on a woman is not sexual assault but harmless fun. Look at the thread about the Garda sexually harrassing the beangard, there are posters complaining that she is "playing the victim" and that it was all blown out of proportion.

I utterly dispute that. I havent seen anybody on boards justify this behaviour. What happens is something really innocuous happens (such as the infamous hugging thread recently) and certain posters start calling it "forced sexual contact" and part of an overall rape culture and people call this ridiculous.
As for the gardai, I dont know enough about it to comment but I'd well believe it. As someone pointed out earlier, there is a genuine rape culture within the US military against female colleagues.

starling wrote: »

This analogy just implies that you're downplaying the seriousness of things like street harrassment or groping or sending unsolicited pictures of your dick and harrassing the recipient when she tells you to stop.
It's more akin to saying a culture of violence makes murder more likely.

Quite the opposite. Im saying that calling every little thing rape culture plays down the seriousness of genuinely unacceptable behaviour such as harassment or assault.

Gokei

Killer Wench wrote: »

Maybe we should take a quick poll.

Who here has been sexually assaulted or raped?

I'll raise my hand. I'm probably not the only one but I'll be happy to talk about the trauma that I've dealt with for many years because I didn't feel as if my body was my own body. It is about control and taking away a person's right to say no. I should be able to say no, I don't want to have sex with you. I should be able to say no, I don't want to sex images of your penis.

Sending a picture of your penis isn't the same thing as forcing your penis into someone. However, the root of the action is why the woman who received those pictures reacted and called it part of the rape culture.

Does she participate in rape culture by sending the pic unsolicited to the mother?

starling

WilyCoyote wrote: »

All these male animals that the wimmin are on about. Which parent had the most influence in the upbringing until they were in their early teens? I think that this issue should be visited in light of their behavior in later years.

If they are men, then their fathers, because small boys see their fathers as the idea of what a man is. They learn how to be a man prinarily from their fathers.