Mgmt fees - why? what?

kippy

Stall The Ball 101 wrote: »

What would the yearly cost of landscaping be if you added up what is spent between the different management companies throughout the whole development ?

The woods is 28,000 for this years budget

Would it be possible just to employ a couple of full time grounds people to look after the whole estate and then divide the cost of employing them on the basis of the area of land to be maintained within each estate ?

Could this be more cost efficient ?

Well, I'd suggest that there may be implications for , PRSI,PAYE, PENSIONS, Health and Safetly etc etc

Stall The Ball 101

kippy wrote: »

Well, I'd suggest that there may be implications for , PRSI,PAYE, PENSIONS, Health and Safetly etc etc

Good point

How about putting it out to tender would you get a better price for the whole development rather than having it split up into different contracts and the like

With one contract on a full time basis it could not only be more cost effective it would surly improve the service because it would be a full time contract

I don't know if this can be done, but to me it makes more sense and if it were to be more cost efficient this way the benefit would be reducing fees for everyone

I suppose if this worked you could do a lot of the other services window cleaning etc on the same basis

loyatemu

tp25 wrote: »

this would mean that none of the owners in these parts of Charlesland would need to pay for the separate building insurance. I think you mean duplex' only?

no - I was in a 3-bed terraced. the bank would have been aware it was block-insurance when they issued the mortgage, as to whether they get a copy of the policy each year, I don't know. Does the management agency have a list of mortgages?

The only way to get rid of the fees is to get the council to take the entire estate in charge, but you'd still need mgmt companies for the apartments and duplexes, and it would probably be legally complex disentangling the whole structure.

Where I am now we pay €30 a year for someone to cut the grass (the council only does it once or twice a year) but I have to pay building insurance as well so I'm not that much better off than in Charlesland. Personally, with the local property charge coming in, I think the council should be obliged to take new estates in charge if the residents request it. The concept of putting management companies into housing estates came about because local authorities didn't want the extra drain on their resources with no additional income - LPT should redress that.

Stall The Ball 101

loyatemu wrote: »

no - I was in a 3-bed terraced. the bank would have been aware it was block-insurance when they issued the mortgage, as to whether they get a copy of the policy each year, I don't know. Does the management agency have a list of mortgages?

The only way to get rid of the fees is to get the council to take the entire estate in charge, but you'd still need mgmt companies for the apartments and duplexes, and it would probably be legally complex disentangling the whole structure.

Where I am now we pay €30 a year for someone to cut the grass (the council only does it once or twice a year) but I have to pay building insurance as well so I'm not that much better off than in Charlesland. Personally, with the local property charge coming in, I think the council should be obliged to take new estates in charge if the residents request it. The concept of putting management companies into housing estates came about because local authorities didn't want the extra drain on their resources with no additional income - LPT should redress that.

And do you find that there is a problem with people not paying the 30 euro a year

I think there is a lot of scaremongering involved with councils taking estates in charge, theres a big difference between 250 euro and 30 euro for effectively the same result nicely mowed lawns

Cerco

loyatemu wrote: »

no - I was in a 3-bed terraced. the bank would have been aware it was block-insurance when they issued the mortgage, as to whether they get a copy of the policy each year, I don't know. Does the management agency have a list of mortgages?

The only way to get rid of the fees is to get the council to take the entire estate in charge, but you'd still need mgmt companies for the apartments and duplexes, and it would probably be legally complex disentangling the whole structure.

Where I am now we pay €30 a year for someone to cut the grass (the council only does it once or twice a year) but I have to pay building insurance as well so I'm not that much better off than in Charlesland. Personally, with the local property charge coming in, I think the council should be obliged to take new estates in charge if the residents request it. The concept of putting management companies into housing estates came about because local authorities didn't want the extra drain on their resources with no additional income - LPT should redress that.

Well you can control the cost of insurance by shopping around. So you are better off. The subscription you pay for grass cutting is optional - doubt you would be clamped if you failed to pay. I am not suggesting you should not pay , just pointing out you are in control of the costs.

I doubt the Council will take over properties from management companies. Neither will they recommence domestic waste collection.

bido

If there was a residents association set up they could get quotes from window cleaners,plumbers, electricans, waste collectors, cleaners for common areas, landscape gardeners, insurance companys, And it would work out cheaper than paying management fees.
Instead of having several bin collectors collecting all hours of the morning the residents assocation could negotiate on behalf of everyone a better price.
they could also buy a cherrypicker that could be used for window / gutter cleaning.
They could also get rid of the clampers.
Everyone would be happy and the estate would look lovely like it did when we lived there. :eek::eek:

Stall The Ball 101

bido wrote: »

If there was a residents association set up they could get quotes from window cleaners,plumbers, electricans, waste collectors, cleaners for common areas, landscape gardeners, insurance companys, And it would work out cheaper than paying management fees.
Instead of having several bin collectors collecting all hours of the morning the residents assocation could negotiate on behalf of everyone a better price.
they could also buy a cherrypicker that could be used for window / gutter cleaning.
They could also get rid of the clampers.
Everyone would be happy and the estate would look lovely like it did when we lived there. :eek::eek:

I couldn't have put it better myself

kippy

bido wrote: »

If there was a residents association set up they could get quotes from window cleaners,plumbers, electricans, waste collectors, cleaners for common areas, landscape gardeners, insurance companys, And it would work out cheaper than paying management fees.
Instead of having several bin collectors collecting all hours of the morning the residents assocation could negotiate on behalf of everyone a better price.
they could also buy a cherrypicker that could be used for window / gutter cleaning.
They could also get rid of the clampers.
Everyone would be happy and the estate would look lovely like it did when we lived there. :eek::eek:

The thing is, there are very few people willing to put the time into a residents association.

bido

It would work out cheaper.:D

Maudi

kippy wrote: »

The thing is, there are very few people willing to put the time into a residents association.

How do you know that?

kippy

Maudi wrote: »

How do you know that?

Involved with one here. 40 owners in estate. Barely manage three people at meetings and its a nightmare getting stuff signed. Most people dont want the hassle in the little work involved already and theres no chance a bigger workload and responsibility would appeal to owners.
Id suggest simmiliar elsewhere to be honest. Bigger estates bring more responsibility and workload and probabbly the same people doing everything. They will eventually get sick and tired of it.
Id suggest the same issues in many estates.

matt-dublin

The management companies are residents associations essentially, we just employ an agent to do all the day to day handling.

The agents benefit in economy to scale, where some estates may only have 59 houses, they might have some with three hundred etc.

So when they tendor they usually get better pricing across all their estates.

Noone is interested in joining the committees, we struggle for members, for the first time in 6 years now we've got 5 members for the crescent whereas previoulsly it was four, then one, then three for the last few years.

It's very difficult to Cust costs without reducing services or investing money. EG in the crescent we want to replace all of the internal common lighting with LED lighting but we can't get the capital together to do it. And we're not talking a huge amount either, same with the gardens, we want to invest in them but again we've not got the cash.

Also the majority of units in charlesland are leased out and not owner occupied, what we find as well is the owner occupies attend AGMs and are somewhat involved. Landlords don't give a hoot so they've no interest what so ever.

bido

If you can't get the money to do work on the lights and gardens at the moment . It is obvious the system is not working , So it needs changing or the appearance of the estate will suffer.

matt-dublin

bido wrote: »

If you can't get the money to do work on the lights and gardens at the moment . It is obvious the system is not working , So it needs changing or the appearance of the estate will suffer.

People still need to pay up regardless of the system!!

2011

It is the same old story, all of the work is done by a very small group of hardworking volunteers. Meanwhile the people with so many "great ideas" fail to actually get involved and do something constructive.

loyatemu

Cerco wrote: »

I doubt the Council will take over properties from management companies.

I also doubt it, but its still unfair. I get my street lighting provided by the council, we don't need PL insurance because its a public road, the council cuts the grass (infrequently) and maintains the road surface (again, not very often but its still not up to me to pay for it). When I lived in Charlesland I had to pay for all that stuff via the mgmt fee just because its a newer estate. That is not equitable or fair. Management companies are for apartment blocks, people living in houses shouldn't need them, they're a copout by local government.

If residents don't pay the grass-cutting fee here, the grass just gets longer, there are no other consequences. If Charlesland residents don't pay their fees, the mgmt company risks insolvency and there are serious legal consequences. Ultimately its a political issue - your ultimate aim should be to get the council to take the entire estate in charge but you'll need to lean on the local TDs to get the issue noticed at government level.

Stall The Ball 101

2011 wrote: »

It is the same old story, all of the work is done by a very small group of hardworking volunteers. Meanwhile the people with so many "great ideas" fail to actually get involved and do something constructive.

If all of the work is done by volunteers, why is a significant portion of my management fee going towards an agent ?

matt-dublin

Stall The Ball 101 wrote: »

If all of the work is done by volunteers, why is a significant portion of my management fee going towards an agent ?

It's less than 8% going to an agent. The biggest costs are insurance, gardens and electricity

In the crescent with the help if Kennedy wright I think we've knocked about 40% of our costs.

At one point I had to pay €2300 but this year I think it was down to €1600

2011

Stall The Ball 101 wrote: »

If all of the work is done by volunteers, why is a significant portion of my management fee going towards an agent ?

I would guess that there are not enough volunteers. Why don't you lend a hand and find out? You could use the opportunity to try to introduce your cost saving ideas and see just how practical they really are.

kippy

Stall The Ball 101 wrote: »

If all of the work is done by volunteers, why is a significant portion of my management fee going towards an agent ?

I assume he is referring to the make up of the management board, which is made up of volunteer residents.
This involved time for meetings, paperwork and interaction with the management agent......

I think you should get involved to see exactly the amount of work involved.
It mightn't actually be that much, but there are very few people who want to go on the board, never mind take on the far greater additional work of taking over the agents role.

Stall The Ball 101

kippy wrote: »

I assume he is referring to the make up of the management board, which is made up of volunteer residents.
This involved time for meetings, paperwork and interaction with the management agent......

I think you should get involved to see exactly the amount of work involved.
It mightn't actually be that much, but there are very few people who want to go on the board, never mind take on the far greater additional work of taking over the agents role.

Is the agent obliged to advice on any cost savings or do they wait on instructions from the committee ?

Stall The Ball 101

kippy wrote: »

I assume he is referring to the make up of the management board, which is made up of volunteer residents.
This involved time for meetings, paperwork and interaction with the management agent......

I think you should get involved to see exactly the amount of work involved.
It mightn't actually be that much, but there are very few people who want to go on the board, never mind take on the far greater additional work of taking over the agents role.

I was not suggesting residents take on the agent role and not every resident is cutout to become a director on a board of management but that doesn't mean they loose their right to voice an opinion

Stall The Ball 101

matt-dublin wrote: »

It's less than 8% going to an agent. The biggest costs are insurance, gardens and electricity

In the crescent with the help if Kennedy wright I think we've knocked about 40% of our costs.

At one point I had to pay €2300 but this year I think it was down to €1600

Well in the Woods over the last 3 years for a 2 bed house the fee has dropped 50 euro, due to the bus been canceled I think and this saving has now been eroded more because I had to spend an extra 20 euro this year on parking discs

kippy

Stall The Ball 101 wrote: »

Is the agent obliged to advice on any cost savings or do they wait on instructions from the committee ?

In my experience, if the agent can see and achieve any costs savings for the estate they will advise the committee at the meetings as well as any pros and cons of going down that route....
Committee members can generally ask for savings and put ideas forward of how to save money as well....

I'm not sure whether the agent is obliged to do this however I would suggest at the very least if they want to retain the business they will offer the clients the best service possible and this would include keeping costs down.

Since I've been involved the agent has managed to decrease insurance significently, gardening and maintain a fund for painting where multiple quotes are gotten etc etc.....Every piece of work and every quote etc is well documented...

kippy

Stall The Ball 101 wrote: »

I was not suggesting residents take on the agent role and not every resident is cutout to become a director on a board of management but that doesn't mean they loose their right to voice an opinion

I find, again on a personal level, that outside of the two directors, no residents actually attend meetings, never mind have any further input.

If you don't attend the meetings or interact with either the agent or the board members, you'll find your opinion is pointless.

matt-dublin

Stall The Ball 101 wrote: »

Well in the Woods over the last 3 years for a 2 bed house the fee has dropped 50 euro, due to the bus been canceled I think and this saving has now been eroded more because I had to spend an extra 20 euro this year on parking discs

Your outgoings are a fraction than that of the apartments, it's very difficult to quantify savings anywhere but apartments

Stall The Ball 101

matt-dublin wrote: »

Your outgoings are a fraction than that of the apartments, it's very difficult to quantify savings anywhere but apartments

But I have to provide for myself the extra outgoings that the apartments get, bins collection etc but the difference is I have the ability to shop around and get the best price for me, with management fees its kinda pay it and if you haven't attended a meeting well lump it.

Stall The Ball 101

matt-dublin wrote: »

It's less than 8% going to an agent.

Ok Im just going by the figures from Charlesland Wood Budget 2012

But it looks like a 2 bed house is paying 30% to the agent

Is there any way of confirming that ?

2011

Stall The Ball 101 wrote: »

Is there any way of confirming that ?

Yes, you could attend the meetings and get all of your questions answered there.

dancerfidget

2011 wrote: »

Yes, you could attend the meetings and get all of your questions answered there.

I think as a reaction to the newly introduced disc parking more people will attend the meetings and become more actively involved. This can only be a good thing:)