Dublin Bus 'middle door' more ranting, let me off Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

LordSutch

OK, so its been done to death on different threads, but yesterday a few people nearly blew a fuse when the driver refused to open the middle doors to let them off!

Got on the No7 outside Trinity with the kids and wife just after 6pm, it was raining, the bus stop was crowded and the bus was chock a block full, we fought our way through the standing hords and made it to the back of the bus (downstairs), all was well till we got to Jurys hotel (old name), and we heard shouting from the bottom of the stairwell, "open the doors" with an american accent, it was them repeated in a more annoyed tone, then just as he was shouting at the driver for the 3rd time, a passenger stood up and obviously wispered to him that he had to fight his way to the front fo get off :-) words were exchanged between him and the driver and that was that.

Next stop after Jurys ballsbridge and another two passengers come down the stairs and wait in front of the middle doors for them to open, the bus stops and nothing happens, apart from more people entering at the front while the people at the middle doors slowly get the message and fight their way against the tide of standees to the front doors . . .

WHY WHY WHY, what is the problem with not opening those doors

Vahevala

It is a common problem on the number 7 bus.

Lex_Diamonds

It's constitutionally illegal believe it or not! It goes back to the formation of the state and when the English buses that had middle doors were in service, the Irish govt. wanted to break ranks with England in every conceivable way, and this is the result. It's absolutely criminal in my opinion.

LordSutch

Hurrah, a joker :rolleyes: )

Michael D Not Higgins

Middle doors used to be on the buses when I was a kid. Used to have everyone hopping on through them and not paying for tickets. There are few inspectors checking tickets on the buses so to stop rampant ticket fraud they make everyone use the front doors.

_Kaiser_

In cases like that on the old RH/RA/RV Olympians, I often saw someone just pressing the manual open button which was fun as it locked the transmission and entertaining watching the driver mashing buttons trying to get the doors to close again.

It's yet another Oirish thing.. buy buses with dual doors but don't use them, or use them sometimes, randomly, maybe.. :rolleyes:

You'll get people now blaming the council for the stops, or other excuses but ultimately it's just stupidity from all sides concerned.

Michael D Not Higgins

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

In cases like that on the old RH/RA/RV Olympians, I often saw someone just pressing the manual open button

Could be dangerous with the driver inclined to drive off with the doors open. Are the new ones interlocked with the door?

_Kaiser_

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Could be dangerous with the driver inclined to drive off with the doors open. Are the new ones interlocked with the door?

Ninja edit above As far as I remember the bus wouldn't move until the rear doors were closed again. It was only the front doors that could be left open.

Frank Black

They used to use the middle doors years ago. In fact a friend of mine was standing in the middle doorwell when they opened and he got kinda trapped behind them when they opened. He wasn't hurt and we thought it was very funny, but I wonder was this part of the reason for not using them. I always presumed that people jumping on and not paying was the main reason though.

Marsden

There's a sign at the front telling you to get off at the middle door, but I've never seen it open. As soon as I saw it I thought of the days bunking on through the middle door. I guess that's why they keep it closed.

n0brain3r

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Ninja edit above As far as I remember the bus wouldn't move until the rear doors were closed again. It was only the front doors that could be left open.

I remember this being such a problem in Tallaght that the drivers would remove a bus seat and jam it in the middle doors in such a way that they couldn't open circumventing the problem!

Losty Dublin

This middle door thing ought to be a stickie at this stage it comes up that much. Herein lies the reason why they won't be used wholesale in Dublin.

http://www.labourcourt.ie/labour/labcourtweb.nsf/afedb93f6ed4a54180256a01005bb357/80256a770034a2ab8025627500451c43?OpenDocument

LordSutch

Indeed, but of course the tourists wont get to read the stickie, and as far as they are concerned the Exit doors are there to be used as an Exit!

Still dunno why this old chestnut cant be sorted out in favour of compulsory use of the centre doors by DB.

AlekSmart

In this case it sounds like a muppety Busdriver colleague,of which there are some.

The centre doors on the GT class are sliding-plug type,which reduce the chance of trapping jinnets in them when operational.

Whilst the thread is about the Centre Door,I'm going to suggest that there are equal subsidiary issues within the OP,with loading being a very big one...

Got on the No7 outside Trinity with the kids and wife just after 6pm, it was raining, the bus stop was crowded and the bus was chock a block full, we fought our way through the standing hordes and made it to the back of the bus (downstairs), all was well till we got to Jurys hotel (old name), and we heard shouting from the bottom of the stairwell, "open the doors" with an american accent,

Given the Drivers reluctance to use the middle-doors,It would not surprise me if there were empty seats upstairs ?

One of the most common failures I see amongst my church is a certain reluctance to get stuck-in and manage the load.

This often involves not only asking people to move to the back or upstairs,but being able to notch it up a bit should they refuse (as is common).

Equally,in this instance I would be on the PA system tellin (Not Askin) the passengers to use the Centre Doors to get out.

The problem is that it involves interaction,confrontation and the ever present risk of verbal developing into confrontation and all that comes with it.

The other element involved here is the loading...;)

Since Network Direct's "Improvements" to the Rock Road Corridor,it has been obvious that significant capacity issues exist.

The Number 7 Route,for example,has consistently proven that a 19th Century designed coastal-hugging DART service,as currently operated,is NOT significantly relevant to 21st Century commuters needs.

Network Direct's significant reductions to the Number 4 route timetable,coupled with the lack of capacity improvements on the 7 route has been apparent from the beginning here.

Remember,the GT class,now comprising most of the 4 and 7 Route allocation have less capacity than the vehicles they replace !!

Were I in a position of power and influence here (Nudge Nudge,Leo ) I would be upgrading sections of this corridor (An Lar-Blackrock/Dun Laoighre) to a basic 10 minute shared headway off-peak,with 5 minute Peak time headways,all day,every day,as well as a 30 minute Night Service augmented at week-ends/holidays.

Frequency sells !!

I can already hear the mutterings regarding the Number 5....6...6A..etc etc,and these are,I feel,quite justified.

There is significant scope to reallocate resources to ensure that we don't have to read of nonsense like the OP's experience.

However,in this instance...The Driver should have been more pro-active and used his/her smarts !!

Losty Dublin

LordSutch wrote: »

Indeed, but of course the tourists wont get to read the stickie, and as far as they are concerned the Exit doors are there to be used as an Exit!

Still dunno why this old chestnut cant be sorted out in favour of compulsory use of the centre doors by DB.

Well they won't but sure didn't somebody ask only this morning....

LordSutch wrote:

WHY WHY WHY, what is the problem with not opening those doors

JeffK88

Dublin Coach bus service through Kildare to Port Laois from the Airport has double deckers and always with out fail use the middle doors.Long live private transport which is cheap, comfortable and logically. Is it just Dublin Bus drivers having some kind of Go slow strike by not opening the doors?

Polar101

The gentleman who drives me to work every day often drives one of those new buses with the middle doors (GT class, then?) - he used to open the middle doors regularly. Unfortunately most of the passengers could not understand they could actually exit the bus, if they walked out through the middle doors, so he has since discontinued the practice. I am quite familiar with exiting through middle and even rear door - 30 years of experience in that field in another city - but perhaps it's not the case here in Dublin where I've only lived for less than a decade.

LordSutch

AlekSmart wrote: »

Equally,in this instance I would be on the PA system tellin (Not Askin) the passengers to use the Centre Doors to get out.

I agree with you 100%

AlekSmart wrote: »

The other element involved here is the loading...

And in this instance unloading/alighting.

AlekSmart wrote: »

However,in this instance...The Driver should have been more pro-active and used his/her smarts !!

Agreed, unless of course there was a mechanical issue with them?

dazberry

As inevitably these end up in comparison with foreign services, I was in Madeira recently, single decker buses, 3 doors, entry only via the front door, exit via the other two, and unlike "mad-eire" it all worked very well indeed. No body getting on, front door stays closed. Indeed some buses even had bike racks on the back.

They even had 10* journey tickets!!
* 2 to 31 prepaid journeys with good discounts for prepaid.

D.

Marcusm

AlekSmart wrote: »

In this case it sounds like a muppety Busdriver colleague,of which there are some.

The centre doors on the GT class are sliding-plug type,which reduce the chance of trapping jinnets in them when operational.

Whilst the thread is about the Centre Door,I'm going to suggest that there are equal subsidiary issues within the OP,with loading being a very big one...



Given the Drivers reluctance to use the middle-doors,It would not surprise me if there were empty seats upstairs ?

One of the most common failures I see amongst my church is a certain reluctance to get stuck-in and manage the load.

This often involves not only asking people to move to the back or upstairs,but being able to notch it up a bit should they refuse (as is common).

Equally,in this instance I would be on the PA system tellin (Not Askin) the passengers to use the Centre Doors to get out.

The problem is that it involves interaction,confrontation and the ever present risk of verbal developing into confrontation and all that comes with it.

The other element involved here is the loading...;)

Since Network Direct's "Improvements" to the Rock Road Corridor,it has been obvious that significant capacity issues exist.

The Number 7 Route,for example,has consistently proven that a 19th Century designed coastal-hugging DART service,as currently operated,is NOT significantly relevant to 21st Century commuters needs.

Network Direct's significant reductions to the Number 4 route timetable,coupled with the lack of capacity improvements on the 7 route has been apparent from the beginning here.

Remember,the GT class,now comprising most of the 4 and 7 Route allocation have less capacity than the vehicles they replace !!

Were I in a position of power and influence here (Nudge Nudge,Leo ) I would be upgrading sections of this corridor (An Lar-Blackrock/Dun Laoighre) to a basic 10 minute shared headway off-peak,with 5 minute Peak time headways,all day,every day,as well as a 30 minute Night Service augmented at week-ends/holidays.

Frequency sells !!

I can already hear the mutterings regarding the Number 5....6...6A..etc etc,and these are,I feel,quite justified.

There is significant scope to reallocate resources to ensure that we don't have to read of nonsense like the OP's experience.

However,in this instance...The Driver should have been more pro-active and used his/her smarts !!

If I'm ever on a Dublin bus again, I hope it's yours. If I ever find myself in a position to manage Dublin buses you'll be on for a massive promotion.

By the bye, at least some of this muppetry doesn't scale the heights of some London tube drivers. As an owner/financier, I've had to sit in on meetings discussing means to stop drivers taking action against some of their less buddy-buddy colleagues. Generally involved doing a number 2 in the corner of the cab before handing the train over to the next guy if they didn't like him or he'd stepped out of (what they perceived to be the) line.

Grandeeod

dazberry wrote: »

As inevitably these end up in comparison with foreign services, I was in Madeira recently, single decker buses, 3 doors, entry only via the front door, exit via the other two, and unlike "mad-eire" it all worked very well indeed. No body getting on, front door stays closed. Indeed some buses even had bike racks on the back.

They even had 10* journey tickets!!
* 2 to 31 prepaid journeys with good discounts for prepaid.

D.

The same in the Canary Islands where I live.

dowlingm

In these parts the driver can push a button to put a "please move back" message over the PA. We're just about to get artics for the first time in years so that might give some entertainment.

AlekSmart

LordSutch wrote: »

I agree with you 100%

And in this instance unloading/alighting.

By "Loading",I was using the in-house term for the general level of passenger traffic rather than the actual boarding/alighting process.

Agreed, unless of course there was a mechanical issue with them?

Oddly enough,I feel there is an issue in this regard with the GT class.

The Drivers PA volume is pre-set and non-adjustable,at an inappropriately low level.

Since the actual PA Microphone is remotely mounted above the Drivers right shoulder,the result is an announcement which cannot be heard or interpreted in a loaded Bus.

I contend that a Drivers PA volume needs to be manually adjustable to cater for whatever level of clarity that driver requires.

I would point out the substantially louder level of the Pre-Recroded No-Smoking Message,which passengers cannot fail to hear.

monument

dowlingm wrote: »

In these parts the driver can push a button to put a "please move back" message over the PA. We're just about to get artics for the first time in years so that might give some entertainment.

Bike rack and three doors! Canada -- the land of danger!

AlekSmart

monument wrote: »

Bike rack and three doors! Canada -- the land of danger!

Absolutely !!....Dowlingm deserves a lifetime ban for daring to post such stuff,oh well at least we know that those Canucks won't go banging their heads of the mirror.....:eek:

His point about the pre-recorded "Push on down to the back" message is very relevant to Dublin and should be considered by the forces at play ?

I would suggest that c.10% of our peaktime seated space is not utilized due to selfishness,pure'n simple,someything which is aided and abetted by a corporate reluctance to give non-compliant customers a kick up the transom in Ryanair style...:)

Grandeeod

So we can continue to assume that passenger non-compliance is a major reason for DB failure to embrace the wonderful world of the middle door. As a 40+ year old Dub, I remember the oul Van Hools etc. I even remember the middle door area being used as a storage space such was the acceptance that it never opened! One specific memory I still harbour was of my Grandmother's shopping trolley falling onto the SCR after a young git pulled the lever from outside for a laugh. Such funny times!

Anyway, I'm no expert on the middle door bermuda triangle thing, but here in the Canary Islands its simple. You enter via the front door, pay your fair or scan your Bono Card. (our version of leap) You disembark via the middle door. No abuse, just sensible use. And all done on a very basic bus like the one below.

Gatling

I remember been in Crete a few years ago ,local buse's you boarded using the middle and disembarked at the front with a conductor insisting you took available seats with no standing no seats you didn't get on ,

Mr Simpson

AlekSmart wrote: »

I would point out the substantially louder level of the Pre-Recroded No-Smoking Message,which passengers cannot fail to hear.

I find the pre-recorded messages nearly impossible to hear on the upper deck of a GT as well, surely it's a simple retrofit to add volume adjustment (if the will is there to do it)

AlekSmart

Mr Simpson wrote: »

I find the pre-recorded messages nearly impossible to hear on the upper deck of a GT as well, surely it's a simple retrofit to add volume adjustment (if the will is there to do it)

That was/is my view....however,I'm hearing that the can-bus wiring system of the vehicle sees the PA settings integrated with some ECU module or other,which makes a knob twiddling exercise futile....I suppose that's the price of progress ?

I actually see it as a safety issue,with the primary focus being on the Drivers Announcement being FULLY audible to everybody on that bus....bring back Larry Gogan and Music-on-Top I say...bet the Spaniards can't match that on their oul single desmond dekkers.....:D