Is the Orange Order dying out?

Noreen1

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

They march in Rossnowlagh Co Donegal every year and don't get beaten up.

Yes. But do they fly the tricolour?

And if they did fly the tricolour, who exactly does the poster think would beat them up?

the purple tin

The future is not bright, the future is not orange.

NIMAN

I know quite a few Protestants from the South, both outside of work and in work, and they are as proud of being Irish as anyone else from the country.

One of the funniest and most enjoyable breaks in work was listening to a debate between an NI Protestant and a RoI Protestant, when the former tried to tell the latter than his national flag was the Union Flag and not the Tricolour.

Oh, what fun it was!

woodoo

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

The OO is a Protestant fraternal organization.

The last time I checked it's a legal organization and while the OO wouldn't be my scene, the Orangemen I know are not the demons depicted by some of the posts on here.
.

I'm shocked to hear that they are all gay. I often wondered what all the secrecy was about. Nobody is ever allowed into their Orange Halls. I wonder what debauchery goes on in their. Its all making sense now.

Buzz84

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

The OO is a Protestant fraternal organization.

The last time I checked it's a legal organization and while the OO wouldn't be my scene, the Orangemen I know are not the demons depicted by some of the posts on here.

Frankly, a Roman Catholic trying to join is about as stupid as a Protestant hoping to become the next pope.

As long as you are respectful of other's traditions - which, despite swathes of negative media which the OO struggle to cope with due to their poor PR - I don't see the problem. Live and let live.

Yeah it's just bad PR :rolleyes: If only they had better pr for the Drumcree dispute.

Mr_Spaceman

the purple tin wrote: »

The future is not bright, the future is not orange.

It's certainly not bright with your depressing intolerance.

RossyG

My great grandfather was a top level member of the Orange Order in Belfast. Imagine his delight when his daughter married Paddy McKie from Cork.

I've never joined myself as I can't drum and don't suit a bowler.

DColeman

I was speaking to an OO member and he was saying that not only are catholics forbidden from joining, but people who wish to convert to protestantism are also forbidden from joining. You have to born a protestant with no roman catholic background, is that true?

He said that its in the blood, the orange order are into purity of the protestant people (blood wise) and don't like people with any significant catholic ancestry or any recent catholic mixing. Also includes Muslims Jews etc.

Heh interesting if it was.

Duckworth_Luas

DColeman wrote: »

He said that its in the blood, the orange order are into purity of the protestant people (blood wise) and don't like people with any significant catholic ancestry or any recent catholic mixing.

He'll be devastated to find out that every single Orangeman is the descendant of Catholics

Jimmy Garlic

DColeman wrote: »

He said that its in the blood, the orange order are into purity of the protestant people (blood wise) and don't like people with any significant catholic ancestry or any recent catholic mixing. Also includes Muslims Jews etc.

Every wave of people that came to Ireland completely integrated over time. The Normans for example became "more Irish than the Irish themselves". The OO was set up to prevent that from happening. Add that to overbearing loyalist jingoism and you get the divisions that still exist today.

AlekSmart

kowloon wrote: »

They need to make their parades fun. Antagonising the nationalists just isn't enough anymore. They need floats, costumes and the handing out of sweets.

They need.....MACNAS :eek: !

Buzz84

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

It's certainly not bright with your depressing intolerance.

The irony

Mr_Spaceman

Buzz84 wrote: »

The irony

Not really. You have shown a certain intolerance and I'm merely exposing it.

padd b1975

Deedsie wrote: »

What happens if July 12th falls on a Sunday?

They march after mass.:cool:

guttenberg

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

Not really. You have shown a certain intolerance and I'm merely exposing it.

Really? so the actions of the OO from Battle of the Diamond/Battle of the Boyne right through to partition to Drumcree etc. etc. doesn't show them to be a triumphalist organisation steeped in sectarian conflict? It's hard to put a positive spin on an organisation that is reluctant to talk with local residents who don't really want them parading past their homes, but would be open to negotiation.

TireeTerror

y0pperz wrote: »

Alive and well in Cork anyway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEm-zzw4FmE

What on earth is that tv series? Are those genuine hidden cameras?

Mr_Spaceman

guttenberg wrote: »

Really? so the actions of the OO from Battle of the Diamond/Battle of the Boyne right through to partition to Drumcree etc. etc. doesn't show them to be a triumphalist organisation steeped in sectarian conflict? It's hard to put a positive spin on an organisation that is reluctant to talk with local residents who don't really want them parading past their homes, but would be open to negotiation.

I'm not in the OO but I don't believe the majority of its members are triumphalist. Not the ones I know anyway - they're just decent, law-abiding people.

For others, I wonder how many Orangemen people actually know? How many have you really sat down and had a chat with? I'm not saying there aren't triumphalist elements - of course there are - but sweeping generalisations don't help either. For every Drumcree-type situation there are hundreds of marches which pass off peacefully. At least Drumcree, for example, has died down in recent years.

To be honest, given the make-up of boards, an organization like the Orange Order aren't going to be cut much slack and the negative impressions are to be expected, I suppose.

I doubt there would be too many Orangemen on here to explain their beliefs and other aspects of their make-up (charity work etc) which would actually help and I'm not in a position to defend them as such. Again, a real lack of PR-savvy hinders them.

weemcd

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

I'm not in the OO but I don't believe the majority of its members are triumphalist. Not the ones I know anyway - they're just decent, law-abiding people.

For others, I wonder how many Orangemen people actually know? How many have you really sat down and had a chat with? I'm not saying there aren't triumphalist elements - of course there are - but sweeping generalisations don't help either. For every Drumcree-type situation there are hundreds of marches which pass off peacefully. At least Drumcree, for example, has died down in recent years.

To be honest, given the make-up of boards, an organization like the Orange Order aren't going to be cut much slack and the negative impressions are to be expected, I suppose.

I doubt there would be too many Orangemen on here to explain their beliefs and other aspects of their make-up (charity work etc) which would actually help and I'm not in a position to defend them as such. Again, a real lack of PR-savvy hinders them.

The only reason Drumcree has died down is they simply are not allowed to march up that road anymore. If they were allowed to do it tomorrow it would be a powder keg waiting to explode.

astonaidan

Got glassed in Australia on marching day for refusing to say the protestant religion was the right one, So its pretty much alive and kicking in some areas.

The funny thing is, that I was with a Italian who the guy didnt care to talk about religion at all too and he was actually religious, half an hour off me saying Im not religious then bam side of the head

TireeTerror

I know hundreds of Orangemen and they are on average, pretty much average law abiding people. Nothing out of the ordinary at all. Its probably because Im Scottish though and the craziness back home is nothing like what it is in Belfast.

woodoo

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Every wave of people that came to Ireland completely integrated over time. The Normans for example became "more Irish than the Irish themselves". The OO was set up to prevent that from happening. Add that to overbearing loyalist jingoism and you get the divisions that still exist today.

Thats it. When i hear them say itsa religious organisation i think bull****. It has been about maintaining their separation from the irish. I'm glad their numbers are dwindling.

woodoo

weemcd wrote: »

The only reason Drumcree has died down is they simply are not allowed to march up that road anymore. If they were allowed to do it tomorrow it would be a powder keg waiting to explode.

We need more bans on other routes then

Buzz84

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

Not really. You have shown a certain intolerance and I'm merely exposing it.

Intolerance of a bigoted and sectarian organisation who are still living in the 17th century, guilty as charged.

Míshásta

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

The OO is a Protestant fraternal organization.

The last time I checked it's a legal organization and while the OO wouldn't be my scene, the Orangemen I know are not the demons depicted by some of the posts on here.

Frankly, a Roman Catholic trying to join is about as stupid as a Protestant hoping to become the next pope.

As long as you are respectful of other's traditions - which, despite swathes of negative media which the OO struggle to cope with due to their poor PR - I don't see the problem. Live and let live.

Very well put Spaceman.

I can't see anything really objectionable on their website, but people have been brought up to believe they're "bigots" so they'll always be the baddies.

I don't know what's wrong with them putting on fancy dress and walloping drums, but I'm not from the North. Maybe I'd be a bit more exercised about the parades if I was from that sad part of the island.

TireeTerror

What is the difference between the Orange Order and the Masons? On the island Im from in Scotland, virtually everyone is a Rangers fan and mainly Protestant. The local hotel is called "The Lodge Hotel" and every now and again they have Masonic meetings. My parents are not religious, so they dont know anything about these things, but growing up I used to ask people what it was and they used to make out like it was some big secret thing and they were sworn to secrecy.

I never really thought much more about it until I saw this thread.

There's a small town (less than 1k people) about 20 miles north of the border where they're knocking and putting up a new Orange Hall, there's at least 2 Halls within 5 miles that I know of and in one direction there's another 3 no more than 2 miles apart. I dunno about declining numbers but they seem to be OK for funding for now.

solas111

Michael O'Leary and that Ryan Air mob are to blame. It's cheaper to get drunk and let off steam in sunnier places these days compared to standing knee-deep in mud while some demented Mullah rants and raves about the evils of Rome law.

DEFTLEFTHAND

TireeTerror wrote: »

What is the difference between the Orange Order and the Masons? On the island Im from in Scotland, virtually everyone is a Rangers fan and mainly Protestant. The local hotel is called "The Lodge Hotel" and every now and again they have Masonic meetings. My parents are not religious, so they dont know anything about these things, but growing up I used to ask people what it was and they used to make out like it was some big secret thing and they were sworn to secrecy.

I never really thought much more about it until I saw this thread.

A fundamental difference would be that the Freemasons weren't founded upon on an organised religion. They require members to believe in a 'Supreme Being' (subject to the members own interpretation) they don't associate with any one faith.

Mr_Spaceman

woodoo wrote: »

Thats it. When i hear them say itsa religious organisation i think bull****. It has been about maintaining their separation from the irish. I'm glad their numbers are dwindling.

How odd that the organization is called the Grand Orange Lodge of Ireland then. Irishness and unionism are not mutually exclusive.

It is a religious organization but you have obviously made up your mind. Do you have proof of dwindling membership numbers?

woodoo wrote: »

We need more bans on other routes then

This is the type of intolerance that you and others actually accuse the Orange Order of.

I wonder how many Orangemen you've met before? Or is it just easier to believe exaggerated stereotypes?

A bit of give and take on both 'sides' always helps.

Mr_Spaceman

Buzz84 wrote: »

Intolerance of a bigoted and sectarian organisation who are still living in the 17th century, guilty as charged.

If you say so.

There's more than a whiff of bigotry on this thread. And not an Orangeman in sight.