Is the Orange Order dying out?

Crooked Jack

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

If you say so.

There's more than a whiff of bigotry on this thread. And not an Orangeman in sight.

I'm an orangeman.

http://www.oneills.com/media/catalog/product/cache/4/image/7bc563c4a34b97d9c7fba60d6553fdd2/a/r/armagh-jersey-orange-1.jpg

Haven't been doing much marching the past few years though.

Buzz84

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

If you say so.

There's more than a whiff of bigotry on this thread. And not an Orangeman in sight.

Are you for real? Playing the bigotry card against people critical of a sectarian organisation with links to Loyalist Paramilitaries .


Many Irish nationalists and Catholics have opposed Orange marches due to their perceived links with hardline Ulster loyalism. Some bands hired to appear at Orange marches openly display support for loyalist paramilitary groups, either by carrying paramilitary flags or having paramilitary names and emblems on their banners.

The banner of Old Boyne Island Heroes Orange lodge bears the names of John Bingham and Shankill Butcher Robert Bates, who were both members. Another Shankill Butcher, Eddie McIlwaine, was pictured taking part in an Orange march in 2003 with a bannerette of dead UVF volunteer Brian Robinson (who himself was an Orangeman).[ While in the Maze Prison, Robert Bates was said to have "found God", and as a result became a born-again Christian. Bates's funeral was attended by a large number of Orange lodge representatives.

Other prominent loyalist militants who were also members of the Orange Order included Gusty Spence, Robert Bates,David Ervine, John Bingham, George Seawright, Richard Jameson, Billy McCaughey, Ernie Elliott and Robert McConnell.

On 12 July 1972, at least fifty members of the Ulster Defence Association (UDA) escorted an Orange march into the Catholic area of Portadown. The UDA members were dressed in paramilitary uniforms and saluted the Orangemen as they passed.[88] That year, Orangemen formed a paramilitary group called the Orange Volunteers. This group "bombed a pub in Belfast in 1973 but otherwise did little illegal other than collect the considerable bodies of arms found in Belfast Orange Halls".

When a July 1992 Orange Order march passed the scene of the Sean Graham bookmakers' shooting carried out by the UDA, Orangemen shouted pro-UDA slogans and held aloft five fingers as a taunt to residents over the five deaths.The claim is corroborated by Henry McDonald and Jim Cusack. They said that the images of Orangemen and loyalist flute band members holding up five fingers as they passed the shop were beamed around the world and were a public relations disaster for the Order. Patrick Mayhew, then Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, said that the actions of the marchers "would have disgraced a tribe of cannibals".[90] McDonald and Cusack also contend that the incident led to a more concerted effort by Lower Ormeau residents to have the marches banned from the area, which later happened. In 2007, a brother of one the victims demanded an apology from the Orange Order after a banner commemorating UFF member Joe Bratty appeared at a Twelfth parade. Bratty was said to have orchestrated the attack at Sean Graham's bookermakers.

In the early years of The Troubles, the Order's Grand Secretary in Scotland trawled Orange lodges for volunteers to "go to Ulster to fight". Thousands are alleged to have "answered the call", although the UVF said it "did not yet need them". In 1976, senior Orangemen in Scotland tried to expel leading UDA member Roddy MacDonald after he said on television that he "would be happy to buy arms and ship them to Ulster". However, his expulsion was blocked by 300 delegates at a special disciplinary hearing.


Stoneyford Orange Hall in County Antrim
Portadown Orangemen allowed known militants such as George Seawright to take part in a 6 July 1986 march, contrary to a prior agreement. Seawright was a unionist politician and UVF member who had publicly proposed burning Catholics in ovens. As the march entered the town's Catholic district, the RUC seized Seawright and other known militants. The Orangemen attacked the officers with stones and other missiles.

During November 1999, in a raid on Stoneyford Orange Hall, which the Irish Times has reported as a focal point for the Orange Volunteers, police found military documents with the personal details of over 300 Irish republicans. This led to two Orangemen being convicted for possession of "documents likely to be of use to terrorists", possession of an automatic rifle, and membership in the outlawed Orange Volunteers. Their Orange lodge refused to expel them.

In 2004, police found a weapons stash at the home of an Orangeman in Liverpool. He and two other Orangemen were later jailed for possession of weapons and UVF membership. In 2006, a local Labour Party Member of Parliament, Louise Ellman, called for the members to be expelled from the Order.
An Orangeman and DUP election candidate with links to the Real UFF in Antrim was jailed in 2013 for his part in a sectarian attack on a Polish family.His membership of the Orange Order was terminated.

See the reason they have bad PR is because it's not easy to dress up bigotry. Other than that they are a great bunch of lads