British and Irish Lions vs Waratahs, Sat 15 June 10:30am; Sky Sports 2

Hottowel

WorldRugby99 wrote: »

phillips wasnt parachuted in after ba baas game,phillips has been gatlands choice at 9 since he picked (and probably long before) the squad initially. Gatland wants to play a power game and believes against genia a big,physical scrum half is needed.Regardless of his performances gatland will pick him-roberts likewise at 12,warburton the same at 7.Gatlands favourites were always going to start-

they are part of his long term plan.

Yeah couldn't agree more. Tiperuic and Sean o Brein could have scored 10 tries apiece and knocked over a few drop goals he was always going to pick warburton. If sob comes off the bench and has a stormer well be told he's great running a tierd shoulders.

I think awj is the same but to be fair to him he had a stormer today and has justified it, warburton for a turnover specialists had less turnovers than poc.

That montage was cringe worthy, I can only imagine some of the tech guys that were told to put that together were cringing. Goes to show you how the stats are compiled he was down as having 11 tackles when poc left the field a lot of them were as a secondary man where he possibly should have hung back and gone in for the steal instead of getting involved in someone that was already on the way down.

trouttrout

19543261 wrote: »

Why do people rate Phillips ahead of Murray? They both look similar in how they play (and how well).

Murray is better imo

WorldRugby99

CowboyTed wrote: »

Explain how all the pundits went for Faletau and Croft... Get serious... SOB was and after thought...

SOB and Turpic can only do what they can with the opposition they got. Gatland didn't play them against the Reds or Waratah... He can't use the excuse of opposition...
If he had no intention of giving Turpic and SOB a chance. He might have well told SOB and Turpic at the start of the tour to feck off into the corner and don't bother the real players (by playing well and increasing the pressure) because unless someone gets injured your here as spectators...

You kind of missing my point.Gatland despite what he may have said clearly had an idea of his team before the tour even started,sure injury and the odd form of a player has changed a few selections but really these tour games have been pretty meaningless and performances have probably only had minimal impact on gatlands test selection. the fact o brien played very well against poor opposition or whether phillips had an ordinary game today against better-wont change much.o brien is just unlucky,like ben youngs etc,they just dont fit into gatlands plans. a different tour coach may have picked them.

19543261

The captain for the final test teams should be announced along with the final test teams! ....its lunacy.

thomond2006

chippers wrote: »

Sean O'Brien has to be one of the first names on the team sheet. If he is benched next weekend he will come on and make a mockery of Gatlands original team selection. I hope Gatland realises this and makes the right call starting him.

The fact that Warburton is definitely staying at 7 increases SOB's chances IMO and rules out Tipuric (unfortunately).

SlickRic

19543261 wrote: »

Why do people rate Phillips ahead of Murray? They both look similar in how they play (and how well).

I don't.

but Gatland does.

CowboyTed

WorldRugby99 wrote: »

You kind of missing my point.Gatland despite what he may have said clearly had an idea of his team before the tour even started,sure injury and the odd form of a player has changed a few selections but really these tour games have been pretty meaningless and performances have probably only had minimal impact on gatlands test selection. the fact o brien played very well against poor opposition or whether phillips had an ordinary game today against better-wont change much.o brien is just unlucky,like ben youngs etc,they just dont fit into gatlands plans. a different tour coach may have picked them.

You could be right but unfortunately that turns the lions tour into a test series with a few boys brought along as passengers and cover for a pre-selected test team...

Personally if you want to destroy morale just pick teams not on merit... Creates a lovely dynamic in the party of have and have nots...

thomond2006

ESPN match stats: http://www.espn.co.uk/lions-tour-2013/rugby/match/164082.html

trouttrout

thomond2006 wrote: »

ESPN match stats: http://www.espn.co.uk/lions-tour-2013/rugby/match/164082.html

Quinnell spent the entire post game bull****ting about how much work Warburton got through. He made 8 tackles, no turnovers and only made six metres with ball in hand

Contrast that with POC, who made 12 tackles, 3 turnovers and all that in 60 minutes

iwasonbwh

Just looking through the stats there and I can clearly remember reading that POC and Warburton had 11 tackles each at the stage and Warburton supposedly made one more tackle in 30 minutes. These stats would suggest that Sky are trying to push Warburton more than most.

But if project maths has taught me anything, there are lies, damned lies and statistics!

decisions

W was the 2nd tackler a few times, does ESPN Scrum only count the 1st man and Sky count both or something?

iwasonbwh

It's hard to know considering sky had POC 1 short of what he actually had

irishbucsfan

decisions wrote: »

W was the 2nd tackler a few times, does ESPN Scrum only count the 1st man and Sky count both or something?

ESPN scrum stats are notoriously inaccurate and completely unreliable unfortunately. The difference between them and credible sources are laughable at times.

duckysauce

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/22917360

:P

.ak

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

POC only getting a 7 is bewildering. Best player on the park today imo.

I would've thought AWJ was?

WorldRugby99

trouttrout wrote: »

Quinnell spent the entire post game bull****ting about how much work Warburton got through. He made 8 tackles, no turnovers and only made six metres with ball in hand

Contrast that with POC, who made 12 tackles, 3 turnovers and all that in 60 minutes

sky pundits just arent professional enough frankly -they are no worse than fans all bigging up the players from their respective nations(no problems with fans doing it-you expect it)-quinnell only talks about welsh players,wallace about the irish-they ought to be giving a more balanced,independent view focused purely on the reality of the rugby that has taken place-not concerns about nationality of players and trying to talk up their own players.

tolosenc

decisions wrote: »

W was the 2nd tackler a few times, does ESPN Scrum only count the 1st man and Sky count both or something?

I laughed at the half time "highlights" of the work Warburton was doing. They were crediting him with tackles where he stuck out his arm and touch the Tahs player, and then other Lions players made the clattering tackle half a second later.

Warburton is useless, and not in the same league as the other 2 options at 7. He'll start, and be the weak link. Gatland's loyalty to a player who had a good World Cup 2 years ago will cost the Lions the tour.

Tox56

tolosenc wrote: »

I laughed at the half time "highlights" of the work Warburton was doing. They were crediting him with tackles where he stuck out his arm and touch the Tahs player, and then other Lions players made the clattering tackle half a second later.

Warburton is useless, and not in the same league as the other 2 options at 7. He'll start, and be the weak link. Gatland's loyalty to a player who had a good World Cup 2 years ago will cost the Lions the tour.

At his best he is an outstanding 7, one of the best around. He is not at the peak of his powers now though, a long way from it. There were a few possible turnover opportunities in this game that the Warburton of 2 years ago would have snaffled with ease, now he can at the very best slow the ball down a bit. He was far outshone by POC today in his specialist area. I don't know if his knee is bothering him or what, but he just isn't playing well enough to deserve a start

thomond2006

irishbucsfan wrote: »

ESPN scrum stats are notoriously inaccurate and completely unreliable unfortunately. The difference between them and credible sources are laughable at times.

Are credible sources ever published?

Piliger

Are there any highlights showing on non SKY channels or the web ?

Buer

thomond2006 wrote: »

Are credible sources ever published?

A better set of stats and more in depth are compiled by the Sydney Morning Herald. They include first man to the ruck as one of their stats, for example. It includes all metres carried; ESPN only counts metres made once over the gain line. Does take some time to update though and often doesn't update at all.

According to it's stats today, Davies made most metres with 168 and 13 carries. Heaslip top in the pack with 10 carries and 56m. Davies most line breaks with 3. Davies and Zebo with most offloads at 2. Heaslip first man into most rucks at 11.