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Do you have a dog licence?
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Has anyone got the lifetime licence, I am thinking of getting one for my dog as he is still a pup and it would make more sense moneywise.I know there was trouble with the roll out initially but presumably it is freely available now in all PO's?0
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Right guess I'm going to be the first one to say this. I don't have a license. Why? There are a number of reasons, the main one being civil disobedience is a valid form of protest.
Here's another, the kill rate in pounds across the country makes for horrible reading, if it wasn't for rescues in Ireland, England and elsewhere it would be far, far worse, here are ways to fix this, but I believe that the government just sees this a revenue stream, not a way to pay for pounds, not a way to give rescues much needed grants.
Secondly, why should I? Anytime I have rang the dog warden I have gotten no help whatsoever. I recently posted about how I can't take my dog for a walk without being attacked by the dogs who are allowed to run loose in our estate. I rang the dog warden, nothing was done, and I can assure you that these owners do not have a license. So why should I, a responsible owner who has my dog, tagged, microchipped, insured, neutered, vaccinated hand out an extra €20 on top of everything for a license when there are owners who do none of this and impede me from taking my dog for a walk and have NOTHING done to them. If the dog warden comes to my door I will be telling him this, a long with anyone who is looking for my support in any up coming elections.
Like I said civil disobedience is a valid form of protest and until the rules are the same for everyone I will not be getting a dog license.0 -
Plus there is zero enforcement. The vast majority of dog owners do not hold a licence and are rarely fined. (Look at the number of licences and fines issued per local authority, compared with the estimated dog population.) The minority of responsible dog owners who do have a licence for their pet get absolutely hounded by the local authority every year with pretty aggressive reminders in the post to renew. And like you meoklmrk91, there is great dis-satisfaction with the dog warden service in our county.
It's been a few years since I renewed my dogs' licences.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 25741
I have a licence for my lad, though tbh healthwise, I don't think he'll see another Santa. Anyway, I got a perfectly civil note in the post telling me the old licence was expiring and pointing out I could renew online. Very simple process (Dublin City Coucil) and paper licence arrived in the post yesterday.0 -
Your council's nicer than mine0
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Has anyone got the lifetime licence, I am thinking of getting one for my dog as he is still a pup and it would make more sense moneywise.I know there was trouble with the roll out initially but presumably it is freely available now in all PO's?
Yes, I got the lifetime licence just after it came into being in Jan 2012 (I think?) for my young GSD.. she was the first in the county to get the lifetime licenceI don't know though, what their availability is like in other counties? It seems to have caused consternation in a number of places, blank faces in response to enquiries etc
Unlike others who have posted, the wardens up here are pretty active, and do reasonably regular door-to-door checks. They know who has a licence already and don't bother those of us who have them, but it is kinda funny to see the word spreading through the estate that the warden's about, and the charge down to the post office ahead of him
They're also pretty good at responding to complaints, as a general rule. I don't have a problem paying my licence because we're pretty well served up here, but I can certainly see why people would be slow to pay up in certain counties.
I'd love to see a properly enforced licencing system which used joined-up-thinking, such as in the north, where microchipping is mandatory, the licence is clearly visible tag worn by the dog, and people who neuter their dogs get a serious reduction in their licence fee (€50 normally, €5 for neutered dogs).0 -
If I told you i would have to kill you0
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Yes, I got the lifetime licence just after it came into being in Jan 2012 (I think?) for my young GSD.. she was the first in the county to get the lifetime licence
I don't know though, what their availability is like in other counties? It seems to have caused consternation in a number of places, blank faces in response to enquiries etc
Unlike others who have posted, the wardens up here are pretty active, and do reasonably regular door-to-door checks. They know who has a licence already and don't bother those of us who have them, but it is kinda funny to see the word spreading through the estate that the warden's about, and the charge down to the post office ahead of him
They're also pretty good at responding to complaints, as a general rule. I don't have a problem paying my licence because we're pretty well served up here, but I can certainly see why people would be slow to pay up in certain counties.
I'd love to see a properly enforced licencing system which used joined-up-thinking, such as in the north, where microchipping is mandatory, the licence is clearly visible tag worn by the dog, and people who neuter their dogs get a serious reduction in their licence fee (€50 normally, €5 for neutered dogs).
Now I would have zero problems paying for a license like that, sounds great. I know that mandatory microchipping is coming in here but I can't see it being enforced, horses have supposed to be microchipped for years and still there is massive issues with the lack of enforcement.0 -
I didnt even know you had to have a licence until I read this thread. What is the actual reason for paying for a licence? I assume its just for a source of income, but they would normally make up some reason as to why we have to pay for one.
I obviously dont have one, considering Ive never heard of them, but rest assured I will not be getting one either.
What legal powers do wardens have? My house is secured by 8ft walls and cameras, so they couldnt actually get onto my land, but what if I was walking my dog on the beach, could they attempt to do anything then? I think I would just ignore anyone asking me questions like that. Nobody can force me to answer them, provide my name etc, Id be in the car and away.0 -
No, being English I didn't know either until the warden knocked looking for a neighbour's dog, and my nosy little git decided he wanted to say 'Hi' to the nice man. Neither did my DH bother to put me right... :rolleyes:
Shot down to the PO to get one. The girl in the PO couldn't stop laughing when I gave her my address. Seemed I was the sixth person in the area to come in looking for a dog licence!0 -
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CRM Ireland wrote: »I didnt even know you had to have a licence until I read this thread. What is the actual reason for paying for a licence? I assume its just for a source of income, but they would normally make up some reason as to why we have to pay for one.
I obviously dont have one, considering Ive never heard of them, but rest assured I will not be getting one either.
What legal powers do wardens have? My house is secured by 8ft walls and cameras, so they couldnt actually get onto my land, but what if I was walking my dog on the beach, could they attempt to do anything then? I think I would just ignore anyone asking me questions like that. Nobody can force me to answer them, provide my name etc, Id be in the car and away.
Would that be the car thats registered to your home address? :P
The dog licence is meant to pay for the warden services, local pound etc. Unfortunately it is a fact of life that we do need dog wardens, and pounds due to irresponsible owners allowing their dogs to wander, and unfortunate times when dogs escape or are stolen.
I would have no issue with paying a licence fee if the pounds were run properly and the dogs were well looked after in there, and all attempts were made to rehome unwanted dogs. But, that depends on what area you live in, some pounds will not work with rescues, and after 5 days the dogs are killed. Others work very well with rescues, and also share dogs' details themselves to get the dogs reunited or rehomed. The same with dog wardens, some seem to actually like dogs, but unfortunately a lot of them don't, and seem to have very little knowledge about dogs. Would be great if the licence fee was used to train dog wardens and pound staff properly, and also to do some education of the general public.0 -
CRM Ireland wrote: »
What legal powers do wardens have? My house is secured by 8ft walls and cameras, so they couldnt actually get onto my land, but what if I was walking my dog on the beach, could they attempt to do anything then? I think I would just ignore anyone asking me questions like that. Nobody can force me to answer them, provide my name etc, Id be in the car and away.
Section 16 of the Control of Dogs Act lists the powers of dog wardens.
They, like anyone else, have every right to approach your front door to make enquiries, in their case, about your dogs. The height of your fence has little to do with it... A warden is hardly going to attempt to break into your property by climbing the walls. If they do need to access your house, they can apply for a search warrant via AGS. A Garda must serve that warrant.
Walking on the beach, the warden has the legal power to ask for your details. They can also seize your dog there and then if they believe him to have been involved in an offense.
Failure to give details, or giving wrong details, is an offence under the above mentioned Section. In addition, it is a far more serious offence to not give your name/give false details, than it is not to have a licence for your dog. The courts do not take kindly to people giving false information to State-employed authorised officers.
The warden might not be able to force you to do anything there on the spot (they're hardly going to get you into a headlock), but if you don't comply, perhaps your local district court judge would encourage you to be more forthcoming. You'd be traced within moments with that car of yours. No car? No problem. The guards are only a phone call away.0 -
2 years ago I got a knock at the door which turned out to be the Dog warden looking to see if I had a dog and if so a licence.
Yes I did and no I didn't, no problem he said, €12.70 on the spot and I had a licence.
I heard about the Fine going up to €100 last week, I had forgotten to get one last year, do you get reminders and has anyone had a visit recently from the warden?
Last year 190,000 licences were bought for a dog population estimated around 700,000 probably a lot more.
So do you have a licence?
Maybe we could have a poll?
I have 3 dog licences. It's a bit of a pain having to go to the Post Office to get them. Would be much handier if they could be renewed online. They used send out 3 different reminders, now they send out all 3 in the one envelope.0 -
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CRM Ireland wrote: »Yes it is indeed registered to my home address, my home in Scotland!
You think that'll stop them investigating where you're living here?
Seriously, the act of running away from an authorised officer, having just engaged in a pretty serious offence of not having given your name/wrong name on request, is going to result in said authorised officer doing a bit of digging to find out who you are. Like I said above, it is not an offence that is appreciated by the courts in Ireland at any rate.0 -
Section 16 of the Control of Dogs Act lists the powers of dog wardens.
They, like anyone else, have every right to approach your front door to make enquiries, in their case, about your dogs. The height of your fence has little to do with it... A warden is hardly going to attempt to break into your property by climbing the walls. If they do need to access your house, they can apply for a search warrant via AGS. A Garda must serve that warrant.
Walking on the beach, the warden has the legal power to ask for your details. They can also seize your dog there and then if they believe him to have been involved in an offense.
Failure to give details, or giving wrong details, is an offence under the above mentioned Section. In addition, it is a far more serious offence to not give your name/give false details, than it is not to have a licence for your dog. The courts do not take kindly to people giving false information to State-employed authorised officers.
The warden might not be able to force you to do anything there on the spot (they're hardly going to get you into a headlock), but if you don't comply, perhaps your local district court judge would encourage you to be more forthcoming. You'd be traced within moments with that car of yours. No car? No problem. The guards are only a phone call away.
Im not trying to sound like a trouble maker, just to make that clear. I do however like to know exactly what my rights are.
What offence would I be committing by refusing to give details? I have always assumed the law in Ireland is extremely similar to the laws in the UK. I have the right to remain silent, and would therefore be exercising it by just walking away. I was also under the impression that unless I was suspected of having committed an offence, I have no obligation whatsoever to even the Police. Unless some report was made, what grounds would a random passing warden have to suspect me of not having a licence?
I was watching a video a while back of some black guy who was fed up being stopped by the Police in his local area. He was being stopped a lot because his car looked a wreck and he also believed it was some race related attention. Anyway, he filmed it all secretly and the Policeman was asking for his details, if the car was insured etc. The driver asked the Policeman over and over if he was suspected of being involved in any incidents, or if he was suspected of breaking any laws. The officer repeatedly replied that it was "just a routine stop" etc, and the driver ultimately was told he could go on his way as he was refusing to provide any licence, identification, insurance certificate and he was not suspected of any particular offence. Apparently there is no obligation to provide anything, its just that most people simply hand over the documents when asked by a Police officer.0 -
CRM Ireland wrote: »Yes it is indeed registered to my home address, my home in Scotland!
Then I'm confused, if you're not resident here, I don't think you need a dog licence. If however you are resident here, but are keeping a car that is registered in the UK, then paying a €100 fine for not having a dog licence is going to be the least of your worries if the authorities start looking into you.0 -
meoklmrk91 wrote: »Now I would have zero problems paying for a license like that, sounds great. I know that mandatory microchipping is coming in here but I can't see it being enforced, horses have supposed to be microchipped for years and still there is massive issues with the lack of enforcement.0
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Then I'm confused, if you're not resident here, I don't think you need a dog licence. If however you are resident here, but are keeping a car that is registered in the UK, then paying a €100 fine for not having a dog licence is going to be the least of your worries if the authorities start looking into you.
I live in both places, but the dog is in Ireland all the time, its never left the country. The UK is my main place of residence.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »The problem with microchipping horses is the accompanying horse passport. The cost of this is pretty high and some feel not worth it. I like the idea of having a cheaper licence for a neutered animal.
Ive got a horse that I dont have the passport for. Its an ex-race horse and the person I got him from was sold him a few years ago, but the original owner left the country and never got around to passing on the passport. The horse is 13 years old. How would I go about getting the passport, or if it turns out there never was one, how do I get one?0 -
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CRM Ireland wrote: »
What offence would I be committing by refusing to give details?
It is an offence not to give your correct name, when asked by an authorised officer. the dog wardens are amongst a number of categories of authorised officers in Ireland.
This information is easily accessed: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1986/en/act/pub/0032/sec0016.html#sec16I have always assumed the law in Ireland is extremely similar to the laws in the UK.
No. Careful now!I have the right to remain silent, and would therefore be exercising it by just walking away.
No, I think you're confused about your rights here. You only have the right to silence once you are under caution. The caution is the line used by both AGS and certain authorised officers to tell you of your rights under caution: "You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be taken down in writing and may be given in evidence".
This caution is issued once the Garda, or authorised officer, has formed the impression that you have committed an offence. You do not have the right to silence until after this process has been carried out, and I'm confident that the same applied in the UK.
So, the warden has the power to ask you for your name and address, and you do not have the right to remain silent at this stage. Until he has asked you if you have a licence for your dog, and you say "no", he cannot form the opinion that you have committed an offence. Therefore, you cannot be cautioned until after you have been asked the question.I was also under the impression that unless I was suspected of having committed an offence, I have no obligation whatsoever to even the Police. Unless some report was made, what grounds would a random passing warden have to suspect me of not having a licence?
I hope my above reply explains how you are mistaken here. The Guards are also perfectly entitled to ask you for your name and address. Again, failure to do so is not a good place to go... it is an offence.
You simply walking a dog in a public place gives the warden the right to stop you and ask you for the relevant legal documentation relating to your dog (the license). That is part of their job.
Similarly, you driving a car in a public place gives the AGS the right to stop you and ask you for the relevant documentation relating to your car. Tha is how checkpoints work!I was watching a video a while back of some black guy who was fed up being stopped by the Police in his local area. He was being stopped a lot because his car looked a wreck and he also believed it was some race related attention. Anyway, he filmed it all secretly and the Policeman was asking for his details, if the car was insured etc. The driver asked the Policeman over and over if he was suspected of being involved in any incidents, or if he was suspected of breaking any laws. The officer repeatedly replied that it was "just a routine stop" etc, and the driver ultimately was told he could go on his way as he was refusing to provide any licence, identification, insurance certificate and he was not suspected of any particular offence. Apparently there is no obligation to provide anything, its just that most people simply hand over the documents when asked by a Police officer.
I do not understand where you're getting your information from! Of course the AGS, and UK police, have the right to stop any car, for whatever reason they see fit under the road safety legislation, and they are perfectly entitled and have the power to ask any driver for the relevant documentation! I'm baffled as to how you think the enforcement of laws are based entirely on a person who is in charge of a licensed vehicle or animal, not having to prove that their paperwork is in order! That's what a license is for!0 -
I do not understand where you're getting your information from! Of course the AGS, and UK police, have the right to stop any car, for whatever reason they see fit under the road safety legislation, and they are perfectly entitled and have the power to ask any driver for the relevant documentation! I'm baffled as to how you think the enforcement of laws are based entirely on a person who is in charge of a licensed vehicle or animal, not having to prove that their paperwork is in order! That's what a license is for!
I had to register a new account as I was asked to not post in my previous username using my company name.
Im still not convinced that I have to physically reply to anyone in authority. I find it difficult to believe that I could be arrested for not opening my mouth. Especially if I was not suspected of an offence. I would love to know the truth of the matter, because it would make roadside checkpoints a waste of time if people simply had to refuse to respond. The law is fascinating!
To be 100% honest, Im not certain about any of it. I always thought you had to produce whatever documentation you were asked to a police officer. I was trying to find the video there to show you, but I couldnt and I suppose Im dragging this all way off topic.0 -
CRM Ireland wrote: »Ive got a horse that I dont have the passport for. Its an ex-race horse and the person I got him from was sold him a few years ago, but the original owner left the country and never got around to passing on the passport. The horse is 13 years old. How would I go about getting the passport, or if it turns out there never was one, how do I get one?
I was listening to a farmer on the radio saying that it costs €5 to register a calf, but €50 to register a foal. I imagine it's done through the Vet's.0 -
CRM Ireland wrote: »Ive got a horse that I dont have the passport for. Its an ex-race horse and the person I got him from was sold him a few years ago, but the original owner left the country and never got around to passing on the passport. The horse is 13 years old. How would I go about getting the passport, or if it turns out there never was one, how do I get one?
Off thread but google 'horse passort' and concentrate on the noncommercial sites - go to horsesport ireland and agriculture.gov.ie sites - look for the FAQ's and how to apply for a passport.
Back on topic, I got a dog license and also got her microchipped because she attracted attention from certain types and I figured that the license and chip would help prove ownership should the need arise plus licensing is required by law.0 -
TireeTerror wrote: »Im still not convinced that I have to physically reply to anyone in authority. I find it difficult to believe that I could be arrested for not opening my mouth.
Did you not read any of my post above? Or any of the legislation I linked you to?
Believe what you like, but you can very much be arrested for refusing to give your name to an authorised officer, whatever process you decide to use not to give the information.
The law simply could not work if people could just ignore a Garda or authorised officer!I would love to know the truth of the matter, because it would make roadside checkpoints a waste of time if people simply had to refuse to respond. The law is fascinating!
Indeed it is, and it seems you need to read up on it!
The truth of the matter? Did you not believe what I posted above? Do you not believe the link I posted in the Stature Book relating to the powers of a dog warden? Do you really, truly believe that checkpoints are set up in the hope that drivers will comply with them? With the AGS just shrugging their shoulders and scratching their heads if you choose to ignore said checkpoint and drive on?
Bizarre.I always thought you had to produce whatever documentation you were asked to a police officer. I was trying to find the video there to show you, but I couldnt and I suppose Im dragging this all way off topic.
Depending on the video, I'd imagine it's going to take more than what I presume is a biased video to convince me that your points above hold any water. I know they don't.0 -
May as well chip in and say the warden must have reasonable grounds that an offence has been committed to ask for your name. Seeing you walk your dog is not grounds to believe you dont have a licence. Ive never been or seen a dog warden approach a person and demand papers in public. Seeing as 3 ot of every 4 dogs are unlicensed, Im going to take a stab in the dark and say that they dont really have much power.
Open your front door to see a stranger with a clipboard and closing the door again cant be grounds to ask for your name.
The Control of Dogs Act doesnt give them the right to get a warrant to enter your "dwelling" for not having a licence . (a)(b) and (c) are the only reasons given for a warrant in the act. It must be applied for by an AGS member. For the sake of €20 to €40 I dont think much can be done or would be done by the guards. If a warden calls to your door just dont give a name and close the door. Dont make a story of dog minding just close the door. Dont lie, just stay quiet. No offence committed. I personally Im fed up of cold calling at the front door by organisations. All they ever want is money for a sh*t services. http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1986/en/act/pub/0032/print.html#sec26
The grounds for a warrant."26.—(1) If a Justice of the District Court or a Peace Commissioner is satisfied by the information on oath of a member of the Garda Síochána that there were reasonable grounds for believing that—
(a) a dog has attacked a person or has worried livestock, and
(b) in consequence of the attack or the worrying, the owner of the dog has committed an offence under this Act, and
(c) a person is in possession in any premises of a dog which the member of the Garda Síochána has reasonable grounds for believing to be the dog involved in the said attack or the said worrying,"0 -
Hi DB, I was using my phone earlier when I read your post first, so missed the link! Im on my desktop now.
I had a good read of that page. What terrifying powers they have.
@hurtlocker I thought they required to have reasonable grounds to suspect you of an offence too, however the second part of the link that DB provided clearly states that the warden may detain the animal to ascertain if an offence is being, or has been committed.
"A dog warden may
(a) where he has reasonable grounds for believing that a person is committing, or has committed, an offence under this Act or under any regulation or bye-law made thereunder, request of the person his name and address and may request that any information given be verified;
(b) seize any dog and detain it in order to ascertain whether an offence under this Act is being or has been committed and may enter any premises (other than a dwelling) for the purposes of such seizure and detention;"
To me that sounds as if he can grab my dog and then investigate a bit further to confirm a persons identity/address. So based on that, the warden can grab your dag when you could be completely innocent, and therefore your dog would have been taken despite you having a licence and no offence having been committed.
Im torn in two minds about this. On one hand I understand they have to be given powers to enable them to carry out their duty effectively, on the other hand I fear any laws which could so easily be abused by someone in power.
Im fairly sure I wont even bump into a dog warden where I am, but now I know to run a mile if they come near!0 -
@ Hurtlocker I was on my way out one day with my dogs when I was approached by a Warden.He asked me did I have a licence for my dogs,I then had to go back to my house and show him the 2 licences.So they do stop and check people.Also a friend of mine had no muzzle on his dog as he didn't realise he needed one,but he was told dog could be seized there and then for not having one.I would rather just pay the money for the licences, rather than giving the Warden the satisfaction of fining me.0
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HurtLocker wrote: »May as well chip in and say the warden must have reasonable grounds that an offence has been committed to ask for your name. Seeing you walk your dog is not grounds to believe you dont have a licence.
Yes, it is grounds to ask for a license. It is the law to hold a license for a dog: it is an offence not to. Therefore, it is the right of the warden, whose job it is to enforce the dog control laws, to ask any dog owner for their license, no matter what the dog owner is doing at the time: this goes for whether the owner is walking down the street with their dog, or whether the warden calls to the door, which he is perfectly entitled to do. Same goes for the AGS with cars. Same goes for any other licensed activity that requires the production of a licence on request.
So, the warden approaches you, and asks do you own X dog. You say "Yes". He says, "Do you have a license for that dog", you say "No". Now, the warden very much has grounds to ask you for your name and address, and has the power to do so under the Control of Dogs Act. If you say "yes", he still has to power to ask you for your details so that he can corroborate what you've said: licensing systems simply cannot work unless the authorised officer has this power. I don't know of any licensed activity under which the authorised officer, with a warrant to enforce the terms of said license, does not have the power to ask for the license holder's name and address once the license holder is, or has been engaged in an activity related to that license.
It's not as if a randomer comes to your door or approaches you on the street to ask you for your dog license: they are uniformed, and must presumably make their identity known to the person.Ive never been or seen a dog warden approach a person and demand papers in public. Seeing as 3 ot of every 4 dogs are unlicensed, Im going to take a stab in the dark and say that they dont really have much power.
For the record, I have been approached by the local warden whilst out walking my dogs, and asked for a license. He could confirm my answer there and then with an electronic device he had. I read regularly of cases in the local press whereby owners are prosecuted for not having a license for their dog/refusing to comply with the warden's powers/not picking up their dog's dirt/allowing their dogs out in public alone etc. Just because you haven't seen it happen, doesn't mean it doesn't and doesn't mean that warden has no right to enforce his powers!
Whilst I appreciate that the uptake of licenses isn't great in many (not all) counties, I think this has more to do with lack of staff/resources than it has to do with whether the wardens have the power to ask for a license on the street!Open your front door to see a stranger with a clipboard and closing the door again cant be grounds to ask for your name.
If you do that, then the warden (who will have identified himself when you open the door) will go back to the records to see is there a license issued to the dog on the premises. If he finds there isn't, there'll potentially be a fixed-penalty-notice winging it's way in the post to you for being in possession of an unlicensed dog.
Furthermore, by not complying with the warden under his powers, you may very well find a summons to court following soon after for either obstructing him (obstruction does not have to be physical), or refusing to comply.The Control of Dogs Act doesnt give them the right to get a warrant to enter your "dwelling" for not having a licence .
You're missing the point. The warden has just as much right as anyone else, be it a Garda, a pizza delivery guy, the postman, a neighbour, to come up your driveway and knock on your door. He is also entitled, at your doorstep, to ask if the dog he has presumably seen/heard on your premises is licensed, and to see said license.
A warrant is required only if the warden needs to enter the dwelling, beyond the doorstep, to carry out his duties. CRMIReland seemed to think that the warden was going to climb his 8 foot walls in order to see if he had a license!If a warden calls to your door just dont give a name and close the door. Dont make a story of dog minding just close the door. Dont lie, just stay quiet. No offence committed.
Yes, you have committed an offence. It is an offence not to give your name to a dog warden when asked. Again, you might win the battle, but not the war. Await a summons in the post.
From the Control of Dogs Act, 1986, S.6:
(3) Any person who—
(a) obstructs or impedes a dog warden in the exercise of his functions under this Act, or
(b) refuses to give his name and address to a dog warden when requested so to do, or who gives a name or address which is false or misleading when so requested,
shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on summary conviction to—
(i) in case the offence is an offence under paragraph (a) of this subsection, a fine not exceeding £500, or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding one month, or, at the discretion of the court, to both such fine and such imprisonment, or
(ii) in case the offence is an offence under paragraph (b) of this subsection, a fine not exceeding £100.0 -
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Yep got one. It means more than a t.v.0
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