Bank of Ireland introducing additional charges

daheff

murphaph wrote: »

From February the national sort codes and account numbers across the entire SEPA will be replaced with IBAN/BIC combinations and you'll be free (if you can find a bank that will cooperate) to open a Euro denominated account in any SEPA member state and be able to operate it just like a domestic one. You can pay your ESB bill from your account in Spain etc. One big payment area.

People think this, but currently banks will not open accounts to non residents (as far as i know they arent allowed). More legislation may be required to open up the SEPA area properly.

But in theory yes you could open an account in spain and use it to pay DDs from any company across Europe

murphaph

daheff wrote: »

People think this, but currently banks will not open accounts to non residents (as far as i know they arent allowed). More legislation may be required to open up the SEPA area properly.

But in theory yes you could open an account in spain and use it to pay DDs from any company across Europe

The legislation is on the way to force banks Europe wide to open accounts for non-residents inside the EU. However, until that day comes then you are correct...it's a case of finding a bank that will play ball.

I know my bank, DKB (German only) will open accounts for non-residents. They even describe how the process of legitimisation works for non-residents (it's easy for residents as there's an "identity check" service from the German post office that allows you to verify who you are for such things by just going to your local post office with your documents).

However, my bank will not deal with anyone in English. You must be able to communicate with them in German in all correspondence. I don't know about the other online only banks here.

The trend is clear though and the writing is on the wall for noncompetitive Irish banks.

Sensor

There is only one bank in the North atm that charges a monthly fee. This rubs salt further into BOI's wounds:

Pay a monthly account fee of £2, fund the account with £500 a month (a minimum balance of £1,000 is required to receive interest); and set up a minimum of two Direct Debits. For cashback household bills must be paid by Direct Debit.

BUT this is what you get for it:

Cashback on household bills:
1% on water, council tax bills and Santander mortgage payments2
2% on gas and electricity bills
3% on mobile phone, home phone, broadband and paid-for TV packages
+ Up to 3% AER (variable) interest on your balance


http://www.santander.co.uk/csgs/Satellite?appID=abbey.internet.Abbeycom&canal=CABBEYCOM&cid=1237892266671&empr=Abbeycom&launch=NO&leng=en_GB&pagename=Abbeycom%2FPage%2FWC_ACOM_ViewSelector

Now i know this may open up increasing charges and reducing the cashback but I think BOI's jump to charging for nothing different is a silly move.

Small print :


Cashback - on household bills paid by Direct Debits:


1% cashback on water, council tax bills and Santander mortgage payments (up to maximum monthly mortgage payments of £1,000)


2% cashback on gas and electricity bills


3% cashback on mobile phone, home phone, broadband and paid-for TV packages.



Interest - on your current account balance:


1.00% AER/gross (variable) on balances from £1,000


2.00% AER/1.98% gross (variable) on balances from £2,000


3.00% AER/2.96% gross (variable) on balances from £3,000 and up to a maximum of £20,000.



Interest rates will apply on the first £20,000 of your entire balance once you have at least £1,000 in your account.


A four month fee free Arranged Overdraft for 4 months when you switch to us using our 5 Star rated Switcher Service (depending on circumstances). See representative example.


0% EAR (variable) Arranged Overdraft. No Daily Arranged Overdraft Fee for the first 4 months. Then £1 per day capped at 20 days each monthly statement period applies thereafter.

Assumed Arranged Overdraft credit limit: £1,200. Actual amount may differ

alaimacerc

murphaph wrote: »

The legislation is on the way to force banks Europe wide to open accounts for non-residents inside the EU. However, until that day comes then you are correct...it's a case of finding a bank that will play ball.

Is it really just a matter of the banks not being willing to? Or are there services that there are currently restrictions or impediments on? I'm not sure what they'd be, I admit, because certainly bank transfers, atm withdrawals, and payment point transactions all work across the Eurozone -- and even AIB doesn't charge any extra for them. I assume DDs do too.

However, my bank will not deal with anyone in English. You must be able to communicate with them in German in all correspondence. I don't know about the other online only banks here.

I can see why that'd be the case, and I'd be surprised if it were Eurodirected otherwise. It'd be a big cost on small banks, and a complete minefield if anything gets "lost in translation". But I'd imagine that once there's complete SEPA harmonisation, some of the banks will want to. (Traditionally they do this by buying a local "brand" and consolidating backoffices, but is there any value to doing it that way these days?)

But otherwise... hey, if one isn't going to learn Chinese, what better than to learn German...

murphaph

alaimacerc wrote: »

Is it really just a matter of the banks not being willing to? Or are there services that there are currently restrictions or impediments on? I'm not sure what they'd be, I admit, because certainly bank transfers, atm withdrawals, and payment point transactions all work across the Eurozone -- and even AIB doesn't charge any extra for them. I assume DDs do too.

At the moment there's no cast iron guarantee that your Irish issued debit card will work at a pos terminal in Lithuania, but from February it must work assuming the retailer accepts your brand of card. This is why laser is dead now. Laser was an Irish only solution. The German girocard will also die, to be replaced with maestro and vpay mostly. Direct debits are possible now but nobody is obliged to let you set one up. From February there will only be SEPA direct debits, even internally national ones will be converted to SEPA automatically. Currently if I make a transfer of funds from ulster bank to my German account it is not a SEPA payment and can take several days to arrive. From February it must make it in one day.

alaimacerc wrote: »

I can see why that'd be the case, and I'd be surprised if it were Eurodirected otherwise. It'd be a big cost on small banks, and a complete minefield if anything gets "lost in translation". But I'd imagine that once there's complete SEPA harmonisation, some of the banks will want to. (Traditionally they do this by buying a local "brand" and consolidating backoffices, but is there any value to doing it that way these days?)

But otherwise... hey, if one isn't going to learn Chinese, what better than to learn German...

Indeed. I'm lucky in that I speak German but many expats here manage to negotiate the online interface easily enough with almost no German.

daheff

alaimacerc wrote: »

I can see why that'd be the case, and I'd be surprised if it were Eurodirected otherwise. It'd be a big cost on small banks, and a complete minefield if anything gets "lost in translation". But I'd imagine that once there's complete SEPA harmonisation, some of the banks will want to. (Traditionally they do this by buying a local "brand" and consolidating backoffices, but is there any value to doing it that way these days?)

But otherwise... hey, if one isn't going to learn Chinese, what better than to learn German...

This is a fair point, but banks make lots of money, so its not a huge outlay to put up english/german/french translations of their site (they probably have one or two anyways). And the bigger banks have branches across multi jurisdictions in Europe already.

barrauda17

I've always used Bank of Ireland as my main account and have always had the 3000euro in there to avoid charges but I'm afraid I'm going to have to close down my account and vote with my feet as others are doing. These charges are excessive. it's ridiculous. People may say other banks will follow suit, but account holders will still move to the bank with the least charges. simple as that.

murphaph

barrauda17 wrote: »

I've always used Bank of Ireland as my main account and have always had the 3000euro in there to avoid charges but I'm afraid I'm going to have to close down my account and vote with my feet as others are doing. These charges are excessive. it's ridiculous. People may say other banks will follow suit, but account holders will still move to the bank with the least charges. simple as that.

Spot on, it's the ONLY way to try to force banks to compete. It DOES work or PTSB wouldn't bother offering an account that is fairly easy to avoid fees on. I fully expect the other banks to be forced to rethink their fees as PTSB takes more and more of their customers.

Changing bank takes a couple of hours work and if you change once you can make yourself a simple checklist that you use to change the next time and it will be even easier.

SpaceTime

SEPA has been working fine for some time. I transferred rent payments from AIB online banking to ING Bank in Belgium and they arrived the following morning. Actually faster than transferring to Ulster Bank from AIB.

Ulster seems to operate to the UK's glacial banking speeds for transfers. I've often waited 5 days for funds go between to British banks!

viper006

It seems alot of the banks are really ramping up the fees..

Im with BOI for nearly 14 years and have repaid loans, credit cards and OD's with my time with them .If i close my accounts with them would this impact my credit score in any way starting fresh with a new bank vs staying with a bank i have an excellent credit history with??

mikemac1

viper006 wrote: »

If i close my accounts with them would this impact my credit score in any way starting fresh with a new bank vs staying with a bank i have an excellent credit history with??

It makes no difference.

In times past the best customers would have a relationship with the branch manager.

That's all gone, loan decisions are made in HQ.

Irish Credit Bureau will have your repayment history and flag any issues (you have none) and all the main banks can access this

viper006

cheers for the feedback.. good to know.

paddyc310

Bank of Ireland €1.20 per cheque ritten I always wrote cheques not good at keeping receipts. Finished now with boi after 40 yrs treat you like dirt ,,,

sean200

I have completed my account move to PTSB and it was so easy to do
irish people stand up for once and boycott this bank and when we have dealt with them we will then deal with the rest
PTSB are no better in what they have done but for now they are not screwing the irish people for banking FEES

loki7777

Don't worry lot of ppl just move to PTSB:) Good luck BOI.

Gone West

I've been with BoI 20 years now, but its time to leave.
The last in a series of BoI annoyances is that they charged me €25 for an IBAN to Spain.
A guy in work told me that this was absolutely against some common Euro directive for IBAN charges.
Anybody know?

2012paddy2012

celticbhoy27 wrote: »

What's the alternative though. All the rest of the feckers will follow suit

Do what I did ! Closed all bank accounts . Set up D/D etc with credit union fir all bills .... Pay your wages in too NO ... Charges

alaimacerc

Fuzzy wrote: »

I've been with BoI 20 years now, but its time to leave.
The last in a series of BoI annoyances is that they charged me €25 for an IBAN to Spain.
A guy in work told me that this was absolutely against some common Euro directive for IBAN charges.
Anybody know?

IBAN as in a bank transfer, using the assorted wossit codes? I haven't done it to Spain, but I have to Germany, and it was "free", back in the day, and "same price we charge you for swiping your Banklink card for a couple of Euros of groceries, that we didn't tell you we'd be charging for", these days.

I'm not sure if this is something weird about this particular transaction, something weird about Spain, or something weird (i.e. indecently confiscatory) about BoI, but I'd definitely complain about that. Maybe check with the NCA and the CIC as to whether this is legit. Then switch accounts anyway.

Actually, I need to take some of my own advice... not a peep out of my local AIB kleptos.

2012paddy2012

viper006 wrote: »

It seems alot of the banks are really ramping up the fees..

Im with BOI for nearly 14 years and have repaid loans, credit cards and OD's with my time with them .If i close my accounts with them would this impact my credit score in any way starting fresh with a new bank vs staying with a bank i have an excellent credit history with??

no effect

Toots

Fuzzy wrote: »

I've been with BoI 20 years now, but its time to leave.
The last in a series of BoI annoyances is that they charged me €25 for an IBAN to Spain.
A guy in work told me that this was absolutely against some common Euro directive for IBAN charges.
Anybody know?

Did you ask for it to be sent 'express'? Do you mind me asking how much it was for? I know if it's under €50,000 it's free within the euro zone but for amounts over that there's charges. Also I know BOI recently changed their way of doing FX transfers, now if they're under €3000 (I think) they have to be done online, so if you go into your branch and fill out the form, the only way they can send it from the branch is 'express' which means there's the €25 charge.

alaimacerc

Oh, right, I was assuming online. That'd do it, all right!

_Kaiser_

The only concern of course is that when PTSB get enough customers in from the other banks, they'll ramp the charges too - and then where do you go?

I can't decide whether it's worth the hassle of moving the accounts to PTSB now (especially given some of the recent feedback here about the Visa Debit not working on a lot of sites, slow to react to/notify about potential fraudulent transactions on their credit cards etc), or sit tight with AIB until February and hopefully this SEPA thing will mean more options for the average customer who doesn't have 2500/3000 to leave sitting in a current a/c all month.

That DKB "German only" rule must be in violation of some EU regulation though? Considering the fact that documents have to be translated into Irish for example.. but then the EU = Germany for the most part, so...

BuffyBot

That DKB "German only" rule must be in violation of some EU regulation though? Considering the fact that documents have to be translated into Irish for example.. but then the EU = Germany for the most part, so...

Huh? They don't. You may be thinking of official EU documents etc: but there is nothing forcing a private entity to do business in any language with you. They're perfectly entitled to offer services in whatever language they wish.

murphaph

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

The only concern of course is that when PTSB get enough customers in from the other banks, they'll ramp the charges too - and then where do you go?

I can't decide whether it's worth the hassle of moving the accounts to PTSB now (especially given some of the recent feedback here about the Visa Debit not working on a lot of sites, slow to react to/notify about potential fraudulent transactions on their credit cards etc), or sit tight with AIB until February and hopefully this SEPA thing will mean more options for the average customer who doesn't have 2500/3000 to leave sitting in a current a/c all month.

That DKB "German only" rule must be in violation of some EU regulation though? Considering the fact that documents have to be translated into Irish for example.. but then the EU = Germany for the most part, so...

I would switch to PTSB if I were in your position. PTSB are not going to introduce fees in the medium term, if at all. They would face a massive backlash from the very people they actively sought to gain as customers.

I don't think February is going to see you suddenly having more options (in English) than exist right now. SEPA will have a huge effect, but it will take a while to filter through to end user financial products.

You can try to open a DKB account right now if you're comfortable enough with (written) German. You don't need to be able to speak or understand spoken German-everything is or can be done in writing. I have never spoken to them in fact.

The DKB account is free and from February at the latest can replace any domestic Irish account.

Gone West

Toots* wrote: »

if you go into your branch and fill out the form, the only way they can send it from the branch is 'express' which means there's the €25 charge.

That's it, yeah.
Cheers.