Squats the Story MkII- Off topic thread

Inspector Coptoor

*cough* **** *cough*

gymfreak

Pfffft. Serious lack of pink shoelaces

MD1990

Do Oly shoes make much of a difference for Squats compared to flat shoes?

Alf Veedersane

MD1990 wrote: »

Do Oly shoes make much of a difference for Squats compared to flat shoes?

They make it easier to get in a good position and the solidity and support do make a difference but they won't automatically add Xkg to your squat.

silverharp

you might get laugh out of this, Elgintensity dumping on crossfit games Deadlifts


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x22p3g0_deadlifts-from-the-washed-up-loser-olympics_fun

arse..biscuits

I find the constant crossfit bashing tedious.

papu

arse..biscuits wrote: »

I find the constant crossfit bashing tedious.

Should probably stop giving ammunition then...

LuckyLloyd

papu wrote: »

Should probably stop giving ammunition then...

They just ran a superb week long centrepiece for the competitive end of the sport. And out of that the haters have a few dodgy pulls and the odd athlete pushing themselves to the point of exhaustion to point at? That leaves aside the fact that the rah rah competitive crossfit.com mentality is very foreign to the way the majority if Irish affiliates tailor their offering.

I've never understood why people are so desperate to hate and magnify holes in methods of training different to what they practice themselves. I noticed the bad reps while watching the games last weekend too and have shook my head at some of the programming at that level in the past - but in the main it was fantastically entertaining and, yes, impressive.

In anycase, crossfit as a sport continues to build momentum. A very successful season for them from an ESPN perspective. Will be interesting to see how the grid stuff takes off.

RidleyRider

papu wrote: »

Should probably stop giving ammunition then...

There's good and bad in every sport, people like you choose to take the bad out of crossfit and publicise it.

Why not bash some of the horrific stuff you see in other weight training sports?

RidleyRider

RidleyRider wrote: »

There's good and bad in every sport, people like you choose to take the bad out of crossfit and publicise it.

Why not bash some of the horrific stuff you see in other weight training sports?

Because Crossfit is usually paired with the stereotypically overly-enthusiastic, "hell yeah I'm great" American who is already all too easy to hate.

papu

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

snip

There are allot of things I dislike about the way the world of crossfit is offered up.
Most of these things as gvn said probably come from the ego stroking american side of things .
Wearing your injury as a medal,
Using miles of tape to show you're not right .
Propaganda displaying how crossfitters are the ultimate of athletes ( fittest people on earth, how they get away with this I don't know ) , when Froning and the rest of the people who do very well in the games don't use the crossfit style of programming to train ..

LuckyLloyd

Anti Americanism is very much a you problem, might want to work on that.

Also not sure what the 'Froning doesn't train crossfit' really means either. For the first couple of years of the games one 'wod' a day was probably sufficient to be at the top end of the sport, and if you were able to do everything posted on .com to a decent level you were possibly good to go at the top level. Like every other sport however, popularity begot higher participation and money which begot ever stiffer competition. Froning doesn't train 'crossfit' in so far as he does way more volume than what's posted on .com along with periodisation, etc. But he still does classical crossfit wods in his training (well, in what footage of him training is on youtube anyway).

'Fittest on earth' is bull**** and controversial, but focussing on that is akin to fixating on the MLB playoffs being called the 'world series'. What is undeniable is that top games athletes are extremely impressive physical specimens and it's entertaining to watch.

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Anti Americanism is very much a you problem, might want to work on that.

Who said anything about anti-Americanism?

The observation that certain overly enthusiastic Americans can be quite annoying, and that the videos bashing Crossfit usually contain such Americans, isn't an "anti-American" statement. It's an observation about a specific demographic and not a generalisation about America or the entire American populace. Just look at the girl with the bastardised deadlift in that video for an example...

Edit: for what it's worth I like Crossfit. A lot of the bashing towards it is unfounded ... but I do enjoy some of the videos.

Alf Veedersane

papu wrote: »

There are allot of things I dislike about the way the world of crossfit is offered up.
Most of these things as gvn said probably come from the ego stroking american side of things .
Wearing your injury as a medal,
Using miles of tape to show you're not right .
Propaganda displaying how crossfitters are the ultimate of athletes ( fittest people on earth, how they get away with this I don't know ) , when Froning and the rest of the people who do very well in the games don't use the crossfit style of programming to train ..

To be fair, that seems to be more about how crossfit is sold rather than crossfit itself.

In general, the majority of gyms will see someone do something that would make you wince on a daily basis. Crossfit doesn't have a monopoly on that.

RichFTW

Weighted pull ups are probably my favourite exercise. They're hard and took me a while to work up to doing full range of motion sets. Then I see crossfit do this...

LuckyLloyd

gvn wrote: »

... but I do enjoy some of the videos.

InfiniteElgintensity is quite funny, but a lot of his commentary is just that - humour, not serious comment.

LuckyLloyd

RichFTW wrote: »

Weighted pull ups are probably my favourite exercise. They're hard and took me a while to work up to doing full range of motion sets. Then I see crossfit do this...

Yeah, they're doing a different movement with a different purpose. Crossfit athletes - from games athletes to beginners - do strict and weighted pull ups too.

RichFTW

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yeah, they're doing a different movement with a different purpose. Crossfit athletes - from games athletes to beginners - do strict and weighted pull ups too.

Do crossfitters make the distinction that it is a separate movement though? Any video I've seen have pull ups marked on the board and then they go and kip the set. What annoys me is saying that they are doing pull ups when they are not.

A beginner doing kipping pull ups would want to have their form absolutely nailed down, otherwise they will be making mince meat of their rotator cuffs.

Cuddlesworth

RichFTW wrote: »

Do crossfitters make the distinction that it is a separate movement though? Any video I've seen have pull ups marked on the board and then they go and kip the set. What annoys me is saying that they are doing pull ups when they are not.

A beginner doing kipping pull ups would want to have their form absolutely nailed down, otherwise they will be making mince meat of their rotator cuffs.

Your watching competition videos. The exercise is defined by either raising the chin above the bar, or touching the chest to the bar.

The quickest way to do such a exercise at a high number of repetitions is to kip. It makes no sense for them to do it strict.

And no reasonable gym would teach kipping before have a really good strict pull up.

Hanley

RichFTW wrote: »

Do crossfitters make the distinction that it is a separate movement though? Any video I've seen have pull ups marked on the board and then they go and kip the set. What annoys me is saying that they are doing pull ups when they are not.

A beginner doing kipping pull ups would want to have their form absolutely nailed down, otherwise they will be making mince meat of their rotator cuffs.

Most timed WODs are performed using kipping because it allows them to complete the workout faster.

Most gyms train both strict (strength/muscle) and kipping (skill).

It's like a football team doing different ball drills, and then a small game with ball drills as a requirement.

The CrossFit bashing is tedious, misinformed, and for the most part ignorant.

I think most dudes just get butt hurt that the girls finishing in the middle of the pack would f*cking destory them on any strength based movement, despite CrossFit not really being a strength spot.

dylbert

RichFTW wrote: »

Do crossfitters make the distinction that it is a separate movement though? Any video I've seen have pull ups marked on the board and then they go and kip the set. What annoys me is saying that they are doing pull ups when they are not.

A beginner doing kipping pull ups would want to have their form absolutely nailed down, otherwise they will be making mince meat of their rotator cuffs.

There's usually a progression, assisted chins/pull ups, strict chins/pull ups. only when a person is strong enough then they move on to kipping pull ups.
In a WOD or competition kipping pull ups are more efficient.
I don't think any crossfit gyms have complete newbies doing kips.


Edit, cuddlesworth and Hanley beat me to it

Alf Veedersane

RichFTW wrote: »

A beginner doing kipping pull ups would want to have their form absolutely nailed down, otherwise they will be making mince meat of their rotator cuffs.

The same applies to deadlifts though. Except more than your rotator cuffs could get minced. And again, good luck finding a commercial gym where you won't see someone on the verge of injuring themselves doing them.

RichFTW

Hanley wrote: »

Most timed WODs are performed using kipping because it allows them to complete the workout faster.

Most gyms train both strict (strength/muscle) and kipping (skill).

It's like a football team doing different ball drills, and then a small game with ball drills as a requirement.

The CrossFit bashing is tedious, misinformed, and for the most part ignorant.

I think most dudes just get butt hurt that the girls finishing in the middle of the pack would f*cking destory them on any strength based movement, despite CrossFit not really being a strength spot.

Most likely true although the strength difference is probably due to the fact that most guys mess around in the gym without a proper program or proper form. If they were paying the same amount of money on a PT as the crossfit fees, the difference wouldn't be near as big.

Anyway I'm not bashing crossfit and I'm a big Leblanc-Bazinet fan! The kipping pull ups annoy me though. Then again I'm not competing at them and just want a bigger back so I'll stick with my strict form ones.

RichFTW

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

The same applies to deadlifts though. Except more than your rotator cuffs could get minced. And again, good luck finding a commercial gym where you won't see someone on the verge of injuring themselves doing them.

Oh god I know. A bad deadlift and you will feel it straight away though. With the kipping, you could be doing sustained damage but not taking it as serious as a bad deadlift as you wouldn't feel the same kind of pain instantly. The damage would be done over time.

Alf Veedersane

RichFTW wrote: »

Oh god I know. A bad deadlift and you will feel it straight away though. With the kipping, you could be doing sustained damage but not taking it as serious as a bad deadlift as you wouldn't feel the same kind of pain instantly. The damage would be done over time.

But the damage isn't necessarily done straight away and people just chalk it down to lifting heavy and a hard workout.

And subsequently DOMS.

LuckyLloyd

How often have you heard 'I just bent down to pick something up and my back went'. The damage of course, was done beforehand without the patient noticing or, at least, not thinking they'd done anything serious.

Hanley

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

How often have you heard 'I just bent down to pick something up and my back went'. The damage of course, was done beforehand without the patient noticing or, at least, not thinking they'd done anything serious.

That.

A true catastrophic acute injury in the gym is unusual. It's usually the cumulative effect of poor programming, poor posture etc etc

In 2 years of RevFit and hundreds upon hundreds of clients, I can think of 2 "acute" injuries. And both had factors that could be pointed to as causative before they happened too.

brownej

I was looking at the advertisement for Ben Dunne gyms that appears on this page and was wondering do their gyms actually look like that?

Oregano_State

brownej wrote: »

I was looking at the advertisement for Ben Dunne gyms that appears on this page and was wondering do their gyms actually look like that?

Think cattle mart at peak times.

Remmy

brownej wrote: »

I was looking at the advertisement for Ben Dunne gyms that appears on this page and was wondering do their gyms actually look like that?

that guy has a lot of siblings

Duck's hoop

To be fair, the majority of decent gyms are busy places at peak hours. Very busy in some cases.

Don't think that pic is a truthful representation of BD from anything I've seen. What with the bag and rings etc. But it may in fact be one particular gym. I'd be surprised to see him using spurious images.

Look at the website. You can see the gym you want to join.

Edit; looks like the Carlisle branch. Which looks top class in fairness.

WHIP IT!

brownej wrote: »

I was looking at the advertisement for Ben Dunne gyms that appears on this page and was wondering do their gyms actually look like that?

Was a member in Lucan for a year and couldn't fault it. Oodles of equipment of all kinds.

Dathai

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-0tJu9aFE8

dylbert

Anybody use Strengthshop Double Ply Thor Knee Sleeves? I want a new pair of sleeves and noticed a few weightlifters using these, they work out half the price of Rehbands, just wondering how good the are?

Chucky the tree

Dathai wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-0tJu9aFE8

I can see this being in next years CrossFit games.

LuckyLloyd

CT Fletcher videos are pure nonsense imo.

Dathai

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

CT Fletcher videos are pure nonsense imo.

I don't think that video was meant to be educational..

LuckyLloyd

Dathai wrote: »

I don't think that video was meant to be educational..

Oh I know, but they're never even funny or impressive imo!

Duck's hoop

They're both taking the meat head label way too literally.

Theresalwaysone

Apropos of nothing but I was training on Saturday morning in my gym and was asked to spot a fellow member.

This chap is a South African, built like a prop, bouncer in the local club. He wanted me to spot him on the incline bench. Yeah no sweat fella.

200kg!!! I nearly made him sign a waiver beforehand. I can't be taking responsibility for the death of a foreigner of a Saturday morning.

Embarassingly, I had to ask for help off another chap to spot him.




TLDR: Weak Irishman made feel weak by Strong South African.

DylanJM

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

Apropos of nothing but I was training on Saturday morning in my gym and was asked to spot a fellow member.

This chap is a South African, built like a prop, bouncer in the local club. He wanted me to spot him on the incline bench. Yeah no sweat fella.

200kg!!! I nearly made him sign a waiver beforehand. I can't be taking responsibility for the death of a foreigner of a Saturday morning.

Embarassingly, I had to ask for help off another chap to spot him.




TLDR: Weak Irishman made feel weak by Strong South African.

In fairness most people would be a bit apprehensive spotting that amount of weight especially if it's someone you're not familiar with. It's important to be familiar with the unique aspects of a persons technique in order to spot safely IMO.

Hanley

DylanJM wrote: »

In fairness most people would be a bit apprehensive spotting that amount of weight especially if it's someone you're not familiar with. It's important to be familiar with the unique aspects of a persons technique in order to spot safely IMO.

200+kg benches are ****ing terrifying to spot.

MD1990

Which Squat recruits the Glutes more. High Bar ATG Squat or Low Bar Powerlifting Squat?

Ant11

First time I've seen this. 12 euro for 1 litre of Cocowel organic extra virgin coconut oil in Dunnes Stores.

conzy

Ant11 wrote: »

First time I've seen this. 12 euro for 1 litre of Cocowel organic extra virgin coconut oil in Dunnes Stores.

I got that one a few months ago, Found it hard part with the cash but I have barely made a dent in it

Oregano_State

MD1990 wrote: »

Which Squat recruits the Glutes more. High Bar ATG Squat or Low Bar Powerlifting Squat?

Low bar. The more bent forward you are (translational load), the more your glutes and hams will be engaged. So the more upright you are the more your quads are involved.

Also makes sense if you think about the continuum from squats to good mornings where if your hip and ankle mobility isn't up to scratch for squatting you end up bending forward, ending up with a squat-morning type movement.

DylanJM

Oregano_State wrote: »

Low bar. The more bent forward you are (translational load), the more your glutes and hams will be engaged. So the more upright you are the more your quads are involved.

Also makes sense if you think about the continuum from squats to good mornings where if your hip and ankle mobility isn't up to scratch for squatting you end up bending forward, ending up with a squat-morning type movement.

I don't know if it is as simple to say the more bent over you are the more glutes are involved. It is of course correct but the glutes can be involved in a upright position as well.

In the bottom position of a deep front or back squat the glutes are quite stretched and are used to get you back to parallel where the quads can do more work. The worst glute DOMS I've ever gotten is from front squats/high bar squats. RDLs don't give me as bad DOMS and they specifically target the glutes.

http://www.theironsamurai.com/2010/08/20/even-more-reasons-to-front-squat/

MD1990

DylanJM wrote: »

I don't know if it is as simple to say the more bent over you are the more glutes are involved. It is of course correct but the glutes can be involved in a upright position as well.

In the bottom position of a deep front of back squat the glutes are quite stretched and are used to get you back to parallel where the quads can do more work. The worst glute DOMS I've ever gotten is from front squats/high bar squats. RDL's don't give me as bad DOMS and they specifically target the glutes.

http://www.theironsamurai.com/2010/08/20/even-more-reasons-to-front-squat/

There more the hamstrings but they target the glutes too. Hip Thrusts would be a more glute exercise.

DylanJM

MD1990 wrote: »

There more the hamstrings but they target the glutes too. Hip Thrusts would be a more glute exercise.

I would say a RDL is a glute dominant exercise with the hamstrings assisting. If a RDL is done properly the knees should be unlocked and the legs slightly bent the whole time. This takes tension the off of the hamstring. The hamstring is still used but it's primarily glutes.

A straight legged deadlift would be more hamstring focused as the knees are locked out the whole time putting more tension on the hams.

Hanley

DylanJM wrote: »

I would say a RDL is a glute dominant exercise with the hamstrings assisting. If a RDL is done properly the knees should be unlocked and the legs slightly bent the whole time. This takes tension the off of the hamstring. The hamstring is still used but it's primarily glutes.

A straight legged deadlift would be more hamstring focused as the knees are locked out the whole time putting more tension on the hams.

This.