Feedback Thread

Lovely Bloke

Beasty wrote: »

posted this afternoon

dfx- wrote: »

posted this afternoon

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Tposted this afternoon

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

posted this afternoon.

dfx- wrote: »

posted this afternoon

But then a person reports a number of posts, nearly all the mods and a CMod are on at the time, and nothing is done.

Could maybe even one of you comment on the posts I've been reporting this afternoon?

I'd like some feedback please, specifically to see if I've been wasting my time, the thoughts of the mod team about them, and what, if anything, is being done about it?

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

mitosis

Phoenix wrote: »

I dont think its very fair on posters been specifically named on this thread as trolls.smells of a witchhunt to me.surely if you had concerns its better practice to pm the mods?

I agree. It's bullying and goes on in the regular forum threads also. The treatment lately of a poster whose only sin is to be fulsome in his praise of a football style is a good example. Not to put a tooth in it, he/she is being bullied by a clique of forum regulars.

Leiva

mitosis wrote: »

I agree. It's bullying and goes on in the regular forum threads also. The treatment lately of a poster whose only sin is to be fulsome in his praise of a football style is a good example. Not to put a tooth in it, he/she is being bullied by a clique of forum regulars.

How anyone can think this is beyond me.

If it was as simple as you make out it then the discussion would never have occurred as there would have been no issue.
The poster you are on about has himself admitted to lying and false posting just to get up someone's back - I'm sorry to me that's just plain trolling.

Now where is this hunt by a clique against a poster who just posts"fulsome in his praise of a football style" :rolleyes:

I'm not gonna say anymore about this as the mods have advised to move on from this particular issue with that poster.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

But then a person reports a number of posts, nearly all the mods and a CMod are on at the time, and nothing is done.

Could maybe even one of you comment on the posts I've been reporting this afternoon?

I'd like some feedback please, specifically to see if I've been wasting my time, the thoughts of the mod team about them, and what, if anything, is being done about it?

What do you want from people, it is a Sunday in the off season traffic wise on our forum. I have today been to 3 kids parties and am very hung over as well, real life happens I think you will just have to deal with that. You report a post and then let the mods deal with it. You know that that is how it works, you have been a mod before apparently (access to reported posts you said).

Nuri Sahin

mitosis wrote: »

I agree. It's bullying and goes on in the regular forum threads also. The treatment lately of a poster whose only sin is to be fulsome in his praise of a football style is a good example. Not to put a tooth in it, he/she is being bullied by a clique of forum regulars.

Don't kid yourself into not believing he doesn't love the attention his posts attract. He's fully aware his posting style is beyond insufferable for many and he shows no signs of altering this in the slightest. Instead, it comes across he's taken it to another level.

As Leiva has pointed out, this poster basically admitted to being a wind up merchant elsewhere. So why shouldn't we believe he is doing the same here?

Blatter

Just had my post on Oranage2 infracted and deleted by T4TF on the grounds of accusing another user of being a troll.

Not disputing the infraction here, I would just like to query the general consistency of it's type (which surely would belong in this feedback thread?)


Can a mod explain why this post from Lloyd wasn't infracted despite referring to AIG as a troll (more than once)?

In fact a mod said the post was perfectly fine as it provided evidence to backup a claim of possible low level trolling. My post contained at least 4/5 quotes over the last couple of months, surely that counts as 'backup'?

I just don't understand the difference between LL's post and mine? The theme of the discussion was on low level trolling and how it's dealt with. I don't see how specific and obvious examples of it don't belong on this thread. They are necessary to help illustrate what us users actually view as low level trolling in comparison to mods/Cmods, as there seems to be some confusion.

Please note, I am not looking to see LL's post infracted, in fact I would quite like to see it remain as it is. I would just like some feedback on the thought processes behind the two decisions.

Insect Overlord

Blatter wrote: »

Just had my post on Oranage2 infracted and deleted by T4TF on the grounds of accusing another user of being a troll.

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

I have today been to 3 kids parties and am very hung over as well

Thanx 4 The Fish

What are you trying to say IO, are you suggesting that the reason that I have handed out cards is that I am not up to it after going to three thoroughly enjoyable kids parties or because I was on the beer last night? The reason I mentioned the parties is to show why I had not got time to be at baldy's beck and call.

As for the not carding lloyds posts, I had already asked the same question in the mods forum to see why that post was not infracted and I am awaiting an answer on it. As far as I am concerned the rules are fairly clear cut on it.

SlickRic

what Blatter did post...do the mods believe that that is an example of trolling?

if so, is anything going to happen to the poster in question?

Lovely Bloke

SlickRic wrote: »

what Blatter did post...do the mods believe that that is an example of trolling?

if so, is anything going to happen to the poster in question?

It's not how things work in here.

Trolls (low level or not) troll, and don't get carded. People who call them out on it are carded. Or not.

And instead of giving feedback on my question I get a ticking off.

Great.

Donnielighto

Ofc course not. Trolls get free reign.

To be clear im not calling anyone a troll. Just expressing the view that the only troll related cards are for those who try to get something done about it.

RasTa

A prime example of why cards shouldn't be handed out for calling someone a troll. Nothing wrong with either posts.

SlickRic

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

It's not how things work in here.

Trolls (low level or not) troll, and don't get carded. People who call them out on it are carded. Or not.

And instead of giving feedback on my question I get a ticking off.

Great.

which means suggesting we report trolling posts for carding, in order to create a 'paper trail' seems a little futile.

I do feel sorry for most of the mods. the system makes it very difficult for them to do what they probably know needs to be done in many instances.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Except that both were against the charter. Something like that in a pm to one or all mods would be alright in my view but doing it on a thread colours the views of all who read it and makes others think the same thing too when sometimes it is just bullying. I am sure if I could be bothered I could pull up many isolated posts from users on here calling troll and make a dossier which would be pretty compelling reading and if I did that and posted it on here about rasta for example (most recent poster) do you think he would be all that happy? I doubt it and I doubt anyone would be happy if I did it about them. And are we saying that because someone thinks someone is a troll and then does some digging on it and comes up with a few posts that may support that view and then go digging around in things that are nothing to do with boards to find other stuff about an individual that will support their view and ignore things that do not, it is okay to post it. Is it only people who are not in a clique that get to do it or can anyone have a pop? Just trying to work out the rules here because I am confident that once we set it up there will be plenty more names popping up on here and called troll.

The_Kew_Tour

Im not in favour of people showing up posters here as it creates can of worms.

But Blatter getting infracted shows that people getting carded are people generally reacting to a troll/poster rather then the initial starter of the problem.

Happens too many times sadly. I think its something trolls know and can get away with and they are the ones laughing at posters reacting to stupid comments.

Donnielighto

There is no clique. Stop bringing that up. There are posters here who usually dont agree on issues. Just because a group of posters are in agreement that certain members are trolling doesn't immediately mean clique.

RasTa

Well I already suggested in post #21 that no cards should be issued for someone calling another user a troll. I don't see it as abuse and fail to see how anyone would care unless they are an actual troll.

Thanx 4 The Fish

That is not a reaction though. He is not reacting to a troll, he has just gone out and spent a lot of time trying to show that someone is a troll.

Jax Teller

Interesting Blatter gets infracted but Thanx4thefish doesn't infract a fellow Liverpool supporter for pretty much the same thing .

SantryRed

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

That is not a reaction though. He is not reacting to a troll, he has just gone out and spent a lot of time trying to show that someone is a troll.

THAT'S THE POINT!

Jesus Christ.

SlickRic

we just want a system where it's easy for mods to root out trolls, like I'm pretty sure they want to.

posters shouldn't have been mentioned by name, but the issue doesn't change just because the naming happened. Blatter's example is still valid.

so, do the mods think Blatter's example was trolling? or is that ignored because the poster was named? as Blatter said, he'll take the infraction as punishment, but that doesn't make the trolling issue go away.

The_Kew_Tour

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

That is not a reaction though. He is not reacting to a troll, he has just gone out and spent a lot of time trying to show that someone is a troll.

Stop being right.:pac:

I just think in general the person who trolls gets away with more.

I have said that's not a mods fault. Its the rules that are the problem.

Hence why "dont be a dick rule" should be first on the list and rest follows.

Mods come in for criticism too much imo too.

The NO 1 problem is the rules. Too much troll friendly imo. Way too much.

Winston Payne

Jax Teller wrote: »

Interesting Blatter gets infracted but Thanx4thefish doesn't infract a fellow Liverpool supporter for pretty much the same thing .

Oh yeah?

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

What are you trying to say IO, are you suggesting that the reason that I have handed out cards is that I am not up to it after going to three thoroughly enjoyable kids parties or because I was on the beer last night? The reason I mentioned the parties is to show why I had not got time to be at baldy's beck and call.

As for the not carding lloyds posts, I had already asked the same question in the mods forum to see why that post was not infracted and I am awaiting an answer on it. As far as I am concerned the rules are fairly clear cut on it.

Trying to turn this into a Liverpool-Man.United thread is contrary to it's entire purpose.

Jax Teller

Winston Payne wrote: »

Oh yeah?



Trying to turn this into a Liverpool-Man.United thread is contrary to it's entire purpose.

He could have done it himself .

Thanx 4 The Fish

Jax Teller wrote: »

Interesting Blatter gets infracted but Thanx4thefish doesn't infract a fellow Liverpool supporter for pretty much the same thing .

Would you ever get out of it. I have already mentioned the steps I have taken. I have loads of other reasons not to ban him if you were looking to call bias too. Used to be a mod, usually a good lad etc etc.

No, I am waiting to see the reasons that the other mods did not act as I was not around that day and do not know the thinking behind it. I have already said on the mod forum that I would retract the card if we had a reason for relaxing the rules in the feedback thread.

Blatter

SlickRic wrote: »

what Blatter did post...do the mods believe that that is an example of trolling?

if so, is anything going to happen to the poster in question?

Would also like some feedback on that post if possible?

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

As for the not carding lloyds posts, I had already asked the same question in the mods forum to see why that post was not infracted and I am awaiting an answer on it. As far as I am concerned the rules are fairly clear cut on it.

Just out of interest, why did you treat both our posts differently?

Lloyd's post:

a) You see it and think it breaks the charter

b) You see a mod has already interacted to the post and not carded it

c) You ask in the mods forum why not, and take no further action


My Post:

a) You see it and think it breaks the charter

b) You see a mod has already interacted with the post and not carded it

c) You infract and delete the post

Not accusing you of anything at all, would just like some feedback as to the inconsistencies of your actions?

---

FWIW I think the other mods made the right decision with both posts by exercising some common sense. It's a feedback thread and people are giving examples of what they perceive to be low level trolls in a discussion on the topic. It's not like we were calling posters a troll in a match thread for disagreeing with our opinion.

Winston Payne

Jax Teller wrote: »

He could have done it himself .

Still want to press on huh?

Andersonisgod

Just to make this clear, what I am about to post is on the topic of low level trolling and not myself (a topic I've been asked to avoid)

I think it would be easy for anyone to make the same kind of list that LuckyLloyd or Blatter made about practically any semi-regular poster on SF. Indeed I've looked through a few posters records of all posts made and could quite easily highlight cases of OTT bias in comments towards their supported club and also OTT bias against players and clubs that they don't particularly like. Like Thanks 4 The Fish said, one of those lists could quite easily be made about any poster and, almost inevitably, it turns into a witchhunt as those who post OTT comments about a popular opinion will be fine but those posting OTT comments about a not so popular opinion will be accused of trolling.

Jax Teller

Winston Payne wrote: »

Still want to press on huh?

Just find it curious he had to ask the other mods on one post but didn't on the other .

SlickRic

bias is not trolling.

bias, with no backing up of your point, consistently, is one example of trolling.

purposely derailing threads with stupid points is trolling.

riling up superthreads with unsubstantiated unpopular opinions is trolling.

simply having an unpopular opinion is not trolling. that is not what is in question.

Jax Teller

Jax Teller wrote: »

Just find it curious he had to ask the other mods on one post but didn't on the other .

Posts like your first above is what drags the forum down tbh.

Jax Teller

rarnes1 wrote: »

Posts like your first above is what drags the forum down tbh.

Inconsistent modding is what drags this forum down IMO .

Andersonisgod

SlickRic wrote: »

bias is not trolling.

bias, with no backing up of your point, consistently, is one example of trolling.

purposely derailing threads with stupid points is trolling.

riling up superthreads with unsubstantiated unpopular opinions is trolling.

simply having an unpopular opinion is not trolling. that is not what is in question.

I wont refer to any poster by name because I don't think highlighting selected posts of a certain poster and then accusing him of being a troll is the right thing to do. I also wont be addressing any of your points in regards to a specific poster (including myself)

However what if the point is backed up, using stats, examples and accomplishments? Is it trolling then just because people may not agree with it? Even if a claim has been backed up by a strong argument?

You could literally say that about any post, that's far to vague and broad. There is so many posts that any poster could take issue with on any thread which could lead to a thread derailing argument. I've personally taken great care in the last couple of days to find some examples of these kinds of posts and, without even a lot of work searching, I've found numerous examples.

Your third point is similar to your third so the answer is the same, facts, stats and a strong argument would surely no longer make those points unsubstantiated. Also I don't agree with your placement of the word "unpopular" in that post because it suggests that you believe that the unpopularity of an opinion should be taken into account when deciding if somebody is a troll or not, this is the kind of suggestion that inevitably does lead to cliques and witch-hunts on forums.

Jax Teller

Jax Teller wrote: »

Inconsistent modding is what drags this forum down IMO .

I think the mods are fairly consistant tbh.

What do you find inconsistant considering you just made up a lie a few mins ago?

Jax Teller

rarnes1 wrote: »

I think the mods are fairly consistant tbh.

What do you find inconsistant considering you just made up a lie a few mins ago?

What lie ?

Jax Teller

Jax Teller wrote: »

What lie ?

That T4TF infracted a poster beause of the team he supports.

So what do you find inconsistant?

Thanx 4 The Fish

I have identified an inconsistency in the application of the rules. I have applied them as they are written. Others have not but as this post was made today and I have already acted in line with the charter. As that is the case and there is an inconsistency, I have asked the question of the other mods. If they have a reason then I am happy to revoke the yellow.

One problem we have now is that there are many people who complain about inconsistency but only when it does not go their way. Lloyd is not currently complaining that he has not been carded surprisingly enough. But he breached the charter and he has currently not had the sanction that the rules state applied and people are not complaining that he has not had the rules applied as they are written and that is inconsistent.

Jax Teller

rarnes1 wrote: »

That T4TF infracted a poster beause of the team he supports.

So what do you find inconsistant?

I never said he infracted anyone because of the teams he's supports . You need to learn to read properly . I'm sure if I did I would have been infracted for accusing a mod of being biased .

Why did he infract Blatter all by himself but has to ask the other mods on Lloyds post .
The posts are pretty much the exact same .

If he said he hadn't seen Lloyds post then fine but he has seen it .

keith16

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Mods come in for criticism too much imo too.

Too right. Far too many mod instructions being challenged recently. Not nice to see.

Jax Teller

Jax Teller wrote: »

I never said he infracted anyone because of the teams he's supports . You need to learn to read properly . I'm sure if I did I would have been infracted for accusing a mod being biased .

Why did he infract Blatter all by himself but has to ask the other mods on Lloyds post .
The posts are pretty much the exact same .

If he said he hadn't seen Lloyds post then fine but he has seen it .

I can read fine thanks very much. Rememeber, it was you that brought teams into it

Anyway take your agenda up with the mods, sounds like you have a great case.

Thanx 4 The Fish

I have answered your question. I have given the reasons but you are saying that I only left lloyds post uninfracted because he is a liverpool fan. That is a lie.

Beasty

OK, can we leave this particular aspect for now - as T4TF mentioned we are discussing it in the Soccer Mods forum. In the meantime please do not post further examples of what you believe to be trolling behaviour of named users

And for Baldy Conscience's benefit I've also had a kids party today. Until now I've been largely on mobile with posting but no modding powers. Your post was not feedback - it was essentially trolling the mods. You have the power to PM them but decided to make a song and dance about it here.

Nuri Sahin

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Stop being right.:pac:

I just think in general the person who trolls gets away with more.

I have said that's not a mods fault. Its the rules that are the problem.

Hence why "dont be a dick rule" should be first on the list and rest follows.

Mods come in for criticism too much imo too.

The NO 1 problem is the rules. Too much troll friendly imo. Way too much.

Yes, yes a hundred times over. Unfortunately from my experience as poster and as a moderator for a few years, there is a fair amount of mods across the site that rarely enforce it. It's something that really bothered me. A reason, albeit a very small reason as to why I eventually demodded.

Paul Tergat

The saddest thing reading through this is that good posters who are making valid points and quite clearly care about the forum are being carded. On the other hand, we have others who continue to get up to mischief (have to be careful about how I say it) make their comments, sit back and laugh at the ensuing chaos. Its the same old and nothing is done about it

The_Kew_Tour

Paul Tergat wrote: »

The saddest thing reading through this is that good posters who are making valid points and quite clearly care about the forum are being carded. On the other hand, we have others who continue to get up to mischief (have to be careful about how I say it) make their comments, sit back and laugh at the ensuing chaos. Its the same old and nothing is done about it

This sums it up.

LuckyLloyd

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

What are you trying to say IO, are you suggesting that the reason that I have handed out cards is that I am not up to it after going to three thoroughly enjoyable kids parties or because I was on the beer last night? The reason I mentioned the parties is to show why I had not got time to be at baldy's beck and call.

As for the not carding lloyds posts, I had already asked the same question in the mods forum to see why that post was not infracted and I am awaiting an answer on it. As far as I am concerned the rules are fairly clear cut on it.

That's pretty funny. I guess we're not allowed to use examples to discuss general points then. And with the mods pleading 'oh site policy ties our hands anyway' on the biggest issue regarding the forum, what exactly is the point of this thread again?

LuckyLloyd

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

I have identified an inconsistency in the application of the rules. I have applied them as they are written. Others have not but as this post was made today and I have already acted in line with the charter. As that is the case and there is an inconsistency, I have asked the question of the other mods. If they have a reason then I am happy to revoke the yellow.

One problem we have now is that there are many people who complain about inconsistency but only when it does not go their way. Lloyd is not currently complaining that he has not been carded surprisingly enough. But he breached the charter and he has currently not had the sanction that the rules state applied and people are not complaining that he has not had the rules applied as they are written and that is inconsistent.

I have never complained about consistency of modding as an issue. I would rather active moderation that strives to improve a forum than impeccably consistent application of rules that do not improve the forum. My position on that has always been fairly clear, including my period as a mod.

Donnielighto

Was blatters post dealt with by a mod before t4tf?

K-9

Nuri Sahin wrote: »

Yes, yes a hundred times over. Unfortunately from my experience as poster and as a moderator for a few years, there is a fair amount of mods across the site that rarely enforce it. It's something that really bothered me. A reason, albeit a very small reason as to why I eventually demodded.

It can be difficult to prove (which is why I'm a fan of somebody continuously soap boxing getting banned, it's a big sign), especially posters who are very good at it, and then you also get the valid argument that unpopular opinions aren't trolling. There's two conflicting opinions there.

Going from the comments on here though it looks like it is a big issue, with mainly posters who like posting unpopular opinions against it! Always been the way of feedback threads.