Endorsements Wtf

macadam

I have waited for a litter of pups so I could purchase one and after 4 weeks the breeder no states that all the pups will have endorsements on their papers meaning that the papers are really worthless, I hadnt planned on breeding but at some stage I may have wanted a pup from my own bitch, I am now considering not buying from this breeder, the breed in question was a mini schnauzer, and I have bought my crate and bowls etc this week.
It was a present for my 16 year.
The following link is similar situation.

old.http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=83068117

toadfly

Granted I know very little about breeding but isn't the point of endorsements that the breeder will remove it when you have proven to have done all relevant health checks and everything is in order for the sake of your dog. What's wrong with that?

muddypaws

It doesn't mean that the papers are worthless, it means that the breeder is protecting the dogs. If, at some time in the future you did want a pup from your bitch, I'm sure that the breeder will lift the endorsements, once you have carried out all the relevant health checks, shown that your bitch is worth breeding from, and that you will look after her and the pups properly. That is why endorsements are usually put on papers, to stop dogs ending up in puppy farms and being bred from time and time and time again.

I think you should be thankful that you have found a decent breeder, who is putting the dogs health and well being first.

Bullseye1

Sounds like a good breeder to me. We need more of them to follow suit. Picking up my puppy this morning and there is restrictions on me breeding from. Him and I totally agree and support the breeders decision.

macadam

I agree with all your comments but the endorsements are for LIFE the breeder tells me. Im registered with the kennel club for life and in over twenty years I have only bred twice, and it was just to continue the standard of the dog, I had who won a few shows, definitely was not for monetary gain.

muddypaws

macadam wrote: »

I agree with all your comments but the endorsements are for LIFE the breeder tells me. Im registered with the kennel club for life and in over twenty years I have only bred twice, and it was just to continue the standard of the dog, I had who won a few shows, definitely was not for monetary gain.

sorry, I'm not really up on how the kennel club works, what do you mean you are registered with it for life?

Has the breeder said why the endorsements are on there for life, with no hope of being lifted? Maybe it was an accidental breeding, and there is a health issue? In which case, I would be questioning whether you should buy the pup anyway.

macadam

muddypaws wrote: »

sorry, I'm not really up on how the kennel club works, what do you mean you are registered with it for life?

Has the breeder said why the endorsements are on there for life, with no hope of being lifted? Maybe it was an accidental breeding, and there is a health issue? In which case, I would be questioning whether you should buy the pup anyway.

I am a lifetime membership of the IKC, I have got a reply from the breeder stating that they are for pets only not for breeding, another breeder says she doesnt want the breed destroyed, CARTEL???
I have also asked could the endorsement be lifted if I prove Im a responsible owner with all health checks eye certs etc and If I get them to recommend a sire, but the answer is the same, the endorsement is for life..

tk123

Maybe I'm being cynical but the only reason I could think of not wanting the pups bred from would be to protect their name on papers down the line? Walk away OP - I really feel for you but there'll be other pups and a few months waiting will be nothing compared to the years you'll have with it! I promised myself with our pup that if something wasn't right I'd walk away but we've been really lucky to find a great breeder and everything is falling into place for us.

Rommie

I don't understand why there's a problem? If you wanted a pup to breed from, why weren't you upfront with the breeder and told them that in the beginning? I'm glad there are breeders out there who place endorsements on their pups. Maybe the pups aren't to standard or something. I wouldn't blame anyone for wanting to protect their name; look at how many pups on donedeal have certain champion bloodlines, which are more than likely way down the lines and as far from the champion dogs as possible. Maybe the breeder wants to reduce the risk of bybs and puppy farmers getting their hands on their dogs?

macadam

Rommie wrote: »

I don't understand why there's a problem? If you wanted a pup to breed from, why weren't you upfront with the breeder and told them that in the beginning? I'm glad there are breeders out there who place endorsements on their pups. Maybe the pups aren't to standard or something. I wouldn't blame anyone for wanting to protect their name; look at how many pups on donedeal have certain champion bloodlines, which are more than likely way down the lines and as far from the champion dogs as possible. Maybe the breeder wants to reduce the risk of bybs and puppy farmers getting their hands on their dogs?

Actually I was upfront but the breeder wasnt, there is nothing wrong with the standard of the pups and they are not coming cheap!!, what Im saying is yes endorsements but if someone shows that they have done all the health checks required the eye tests etc and at some stage they want a pup to continue the standard that the endorsement can be lifted and that the original breeder picks the sire or dam to suit the standard as required.
If you look on donedeal you will see 90% of the pups being now sold without papers, what will this do to the breed standard down the line, with no trace of whats what, it will be chaos and drive breeding underground further.

boomerang

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the endorsement simply mean that if you choose to to have this dog sire a litter with your bitch, the puppies cannot be IKC registered? Unless they are destined for show homes, does that really matter to you? For me health and temperament trump proof of pedigree, which would you could provide to prospective pet buyers, anyways.

macadam

boomerang wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the endorsement simply mean that if you choose to to have this dog sire a litter with your bitch, the puppies cannot be IKC registered? Unless they are destined for show homes, does that really matter to you? For me health and temperament trump proof of pedigree, which would you could provide to prospective pet buyers, anyways.

I gather it actually means you are not to breed, as its enforced to maintain the breed standard, so if you do breed and the next guy breeds their is no tractability for the pedigree, which to me will cause untold problems within the breed, maybe I'm wrong.
By the way I have no intentions of breeding but would like to have the option.