Why can't teams approach the haka?

Woody1997

http://youtu.be/5hlXMapfYXs

Above is the video of the Irish u20s approaching the junior all blacks' haka at the JWC in 2008. I found the commentator's calling the irish team "discourteous" , "irritating" and "ungracious" ridiculous. It annoys me that New Zealand teams (and Pacific Islanders) are allowed do a war dance at the start of a match as a challenge to the opposition, yet the other team aren't allowed respond with their own challenge.

I'm told the kiwis actually enjoy people challenging the haka and I think they shouldn't have any problems with it. It would be outrageous for them to think they can do the haka and expect the opposition to just "accept" it, real rugby sides don't do that.

Am I the only one who thinks this commentator was out of line or do others agree?

trouttrout

Commentators are idiots, simple as

decisions

'Why do Ireland have to be so confrontational?'

:pac:

Woody1997

trouttrout wrote: »

Commentators are idiots, simple as

Ye but it's still a problem that teams are fined for approaching the haka, it's a stupid approach by the irb to put a bubble around the all blacks and not allow teams to respond to their war cry

ambid

Willie Anderson. Legend.

errlloyd

He's just a Kiwi. I think even our New Zealand posters on here are occasionally embarrassed by the way the Kiwi press treat other nations. I guess years of superiority have made them a little cocky.

Read the NZ Herald once in a while and it will get you way more riled up then this commentator.

Buer

Nigel Starmer Smith was the commentator in question. He's been commentating for almost as long as I'm on this planet and has a pedigree in the game as a player and journalist so, whilst I don't agree with his opinion, he certainly has a well educated mind on the game and wouldn't fall into the same category as the likes of Nugent or Hook.

The haka is a challenge to the opposition; I don't see a huge amount of issues with the opposition taking that challenge. I don't agree with the walking down of the haka because it's obviously going to cause issues and is just asking for a confrontation before a ball is kicked. I do think teams should be allowed face it down closely though with France in 2007 being the perfect example. I was there for that game and I've never seen such a buzz and a response from the crowd when Chabal stared down Ali Williams.

Woody1997

errlloyd wrote: »

He's just a Kiwi. I think even our New Zealand posters on here are occasionally embarrassed by the way the Kiwi press treat other nations. I guess years of superiority have made them a little cocky.

Read the NZ Herald once in a while and it will get you way more riled up then this commentator.

Ye I actually saw an NZ news report from an Ireland NZ match over there in the summer of 2006. The whole thing was aimed at making BOD look like one of those players who is constantly complaining to the ref by making reference to how the ref disagreed with him. The reporter was a right gob*****. Coincidentally, it was the summer after the lions toured there...

Buer

errlloyd wrote: »

He's just a Kiwi. I think even our New Zealand posters on here are occasionally embarrassed by the way the Kiwi press treat other nations. I guess years of superiority have made them a little cocky.

He's English. Played for them too.

Kayless

I agree with the original post, why should NZ get to hype themselves up and physic out there opposition before a balls been kicked? Traditions or not it seems a little bit one sided esp the commentators comments

Our lads should do an Irish dance, that would catch them off guard

decisions

Kayless wrote: »

I agree with the original post, why should NZ get to hype themselves up and physic out there opposition before a balls been kicked? Traditions or not it seems a little bit one sided esp the commentators comments

Our lads should do an Irish dance, that would catch them off guard

Nothing's more intimidating than a good river dance, I'm sure we could even do it to that ****e version if Ireland's call we insist on sending out with our teams.

Sandwlch

Why do they bother looking at it at all ? Ignore it and just go down the other end of the field and carry on with your warm up.

Markcheese

You see pakehas (White guys) doing the haka and it's kind of cool,see moari and pacific islanders doing one and it is intimidating ...I remember seeing Inga tuigamala, Samoan I think (doing the haka with all blacks in Dublin, (on telly) ...the others looked kind of lame compared to him...

danthefan

To answer the question posed in the thread title - because the IRB said so.

This was brilliant:

locum-motion

ambid wrote: »

Willie Anderson. Legend.

What a wimpy fcuking version of the haka that was anyway!

Buer

Sandwlch wrote: »

Why do they bother looking at it at all ? Ignore it and just go down the other end of the field and carry on with your warm up.

Not even allowed do that. You have to face it but at a respectful distance. Campese chuckled away and went down the other end, practicing his kicking during the haka in 1991. A lot of talk of disrespect but Campese didn't give a damn. Aussies went on to win the RWC.

errlloyd

Buer wrote: »

He's English. Played for them too.

My apologies. An assumption that did make an ass of me. I don't understand his irritation then.

As it happens I'd love to do a campese on the haka. Just completely ignore it.

ambid

locum-motion wrote: »

What a wimpy fcuking version of the haka that was anyway!

Check out the 1973 version - they've done some work on the choreography since then!

Podge_irl

decisions wrote: »

'Why do Ireland have to be so confrontational?'

:pac:

I find that line hilarious every time I watch that viedo. Why are they being so confrontational in their response to a war dance.

I like the haka, but I still think teams should be able to respond to it however the **** they want.

pickarooney

The guy at 33 seconds is the head off Adam from Workaholics

locum-motion

ambid wrote: »

Check out the 1973 version - they've done some work on the choreography since then!

HaHa, yeah, I've seen that one before too.

ColmH81

ambid wrote: »

Check out the 1973 version - they've done some work on the choreography since then!

Hahaha.. Looks likes a bunch of lads just went on the piss and started doing it..

Fiery mutant

Sandwlch wrote: »

Why do they bother looking at it at all ? Ignore it and just go down the other end of the field and carry on with your warm up.

I'd agree with this. The whole pandering to the All Blacks by the IRB is irritating, ordering teams to stand and watch is rubbish in the extreme. If the issue a challenge, you should be able to accept or lay down your own. Or as sandwich said, just carry on with your own warmup and ignore them, let them dance on their own.

Dave_The_Sheep

Unfortunately or fortunately, the Haka is a global symbol of rugby, and it's worth money, both in terms of advertising and marketing. It's just such a spectacle.

So the IRB will protect it and as such, no other team can do anything to infringe upon it. So New Zealand get to be precious about it and all we have to do is suck it up. Which would be perfectly OK in the amateur days, but professional rugby this kinda thing shouldn't have been encouraged.

That's my take, I may be wrong.

Onto what should happen. We should keep the Haka, but it should be done before the anthems for away games, and teams should be allowed respond how they want to - be it by challenging it themselves, or ignoring it. And the home team's anthem should (as it is) be played last. NZ, just because they have a loads of Maori history, shouldn't be allowed to have the last adrenaline booster in all their games. I don't know how players these days see it, if it gives an advantage to the All Blacks, or what. I'd be curious.

Of course, we don't get annoyed at the other Pacific Islanders Hakas, so is it just that we're annoyed at how good the All Blacks are?

neilmulvey

the French federation were fined about €10000 by the IRB after the RWC 2011 final for their V shaped march towards New Zealand. Then the ref screwed France over by ignoring about 5 blatant penalty offences to ensure NZ won the game.

I think Wales have the best idea. Either dont move when its finished or make them do it in the dressingroom.

Woody1997

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Unfortunately or fortunately, the Haka is a global symbol of rugby, and it's worth money, both in terms of advertising and marketing. It's just such a spectacle.

So the IRB will protect it and as such, no other team can do anything to infringe upon it. So New Zealand get to be precious about it and all we have to do is suck it up. Which would be perfectly OK in the amateur days, but professional rugby this kinda thing shouldn't have been encouraged.

That's my take, I may be wrong.

Onto what should happen. We should keep the Haka, but it should be done before the anthems for away games, and teams should be allowed respond how they want to - be it by challenging it themselves, or ignoring it. And the home team's anthem should (as it is) be played last. NZ, just because they have a loads of Maori history, shouldn't be allowed to have the last adrenaline booster in all their games. I don't know how players these days see it, if it gives an advantage to the All Blacks, or what. I'd be curious.

Of course, we don't get annoyed at the other Pacific Islanders Hakas, so is it just that we're annoyed at how good the All Blacks are?

Surely it's even more of a spectacle for fans when opposition teams do approach it? And I don't think anybody has a problem with the Pacific Islanders ones because no one ever approaches them, but it's the same principle

boodiebhoy

It is a great spectacle but opposition should be allowed ignore it or otherwise.

Dougie Howlett leading the Munster Hakka was brilliant.

as has been stated by other posters it is a call to war and providing they dont touch an ab player the other team should be allowed to do what they want either challenge it or pull a campo

to be honest i like the haka but it should be done before the anthems and the fact that all other teams where required to reduce there anthems to one (i believe due to time constraints but i could be way off base) and nz are left do this makes no sense

all in all the other leading rugby nations are silly to take this lying down there should be uproar over it

Bridge93

I got to play a tour school from new Zealand while in school and face the Haka. When it's all going on in front of you it's very difficult to just stand there and take it. You feel like your giving them a bit of a head start or advantage before the games begun and you want to respond but of course tradition and etiquette mean you can't which is ridiculous.
Although not sure what it's like for pros who've faced it many times but after my first time it certainly fires you up as well as the new zealanders.

razorblunt

Do what Campese did and just keep training in your 22.

Buer

razorblunt wrote: »

Do what Campese did and just keep training in your 22.

Can't. That's also not allowed now.

tbm

razorblunt wrote: »

Do what Campese did and just keep training in your 22.

I'd heard about that but never saw footage of it. Class.

Yeah it annoys me, but as another poster said, it wouldn't bother people nearly as much if it didn't generally preface your team getting their asses handed to them.

The suggestion of receiving it in NZ, but giving the option to ignore it when NZ are away is a good one I think.

Bridge93

Sure the last time a team responded to it, the result was BOD being out for a year with a dislocated shoulder from a spear tackle!

ted1

There's several versions of it doing my different pacific rim countries so its not just the AB

crockholm

Buer wrote: »

Can't. That's also not allowed now.

You would be breaking etiquette and in receipt of a fine(fair play to the NZRU for paying the fine the French got in the RWC final),but etiquette has been broken before (M Johnson in Landsdowne Rd.)

I believe it is high time other countries had a say,whether they want to pull a campo or a Willie Anderson or whatever,but damn it,force it back on the table.

My preference would be a "Campo";)

Bridge93

ted1 wrote: »

There's several versions of it doing my different pacific rim countries so its not just the AB

The pacific islands versions tend to actually be more aggressive than the ABs

thomond2006

Bridge93 wrote: »

The pacific islands versions tend to actually be more aggressive than the ABs

The Siva Tau is awesome

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1aTqIkruEw

Duckworth_Luas

Ali Williams :rolleyes:

irishbucsfan

If people approached the Haka then it would distract fans from the AIG and Adidas logos during the dance.

thomond2006

Bridge93 wrote: »

Sure the last time a team responded to it, the result was BOD being out for a year with a dislocated shoulder from a spear tackle!

World Cup Final 2011?

shaka

boodiebhoy wrote: »

It is a great spectacle but opposition should be allowed ignore it or otherwise.

Dougie Howlett leading the Munster Hakka was brilliant.

Rua tipoki lead that haka.

Since a kid i loved the haka but not anymore , what it has turned into has no business on a sports field. If its to continue which irb will ensure then opposition should be allowed to face it in any manner within their half of the field.

toomevara

ambid wrote: »

Willie Anderson. Legend.

I had the great good fortune to be at this game and it was absolutely electric. Lansdowne went absolutely ballistic. It is definitely one of my top 10 sporting memories (despite the fact that after 20 minutes of boot, bollock and bite we got trollied). To get back to the OP, the reason teams aren't allowed to challenge the Haka is that the AB's and the IRB are incredibly precious and gut-bustingly politically correct about the whole thing.

The AB's should, by all means, be allowed to do their dance but teams' individual response to it should not be dictated by the IRB.. Some teams, like the Aussies, like to stand and take the challenge and others, like us, like to throw it back at them. Its all down to individual rugby culture. IMO, teams should just start doing their own thing in response and damn the consequences. Getting fined for not 'respecting' the haka is a nonsense and individual unions should refuse to play along.

Anyone remember when the AB's threw their toys out of the pram against the Welsh and did their jig in the dressing room at the Millennium? Thus disrespecting Wales and, more importantly, the thousands who turned up to see them? I may be wrong but I don't remember any sanctions being imposed on them afterwards.

toomevara

Cockers is a bit of a bell-end, but this was great theatre, and lets face it, if you're going to bring ethnic dancing into rugby why not get some theatre in there too?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hOZRHpleH8

Thud

would be interesting to know if the original haka (non rugby) was more like the 1973 version or the current version.
If the current more agressive version has came about through rugby only (looks like it's only gone that way on the pitch in last 10-20yrs) then it's not so traditional and they should be made stick to the old version

Duckworth_Luas

It seems that every New Zealand sports team has to do this

Ice Hockey :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4txxfgV5scU

The fearsome New Zealand swimming team :rolleyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM5IG4G46Sw

Womens soccer team do something that can only be described as the Hakarena

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cj3ovQEmqu0

toomevara

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

It seems that every New Zealand sports team has to do this

Christ, are you kidding me! Stick two New Zealanders, hell sometimes they'll even go solo, in a room, give em some beer and an audience (anyone'll do, a bored cat, a dog, a goldfish) and at some point they'll try to do the Haka. Lived in London for a fair few years and hardly a barbecue/ drinking session, birthday or wedding went by without some Kiwis trying to do the bleedin' thing..utterly, utterly tedious...

btw best user name I've seen in a while!

spank_inferno

Isn't the Haka property of Addidas now anyway.

I guess its important that the NZRU get their 40 seconds of Addidas / AIG advertising in anyway.

Their national anthem should be enough, the Haka is utter tedium.
(their anthem is one of the best in the world anyway).

Clareman

I think the Haka is great but it can be a bit precious at times, when Wales asked to be able to sing a response the Kiwis decided to do it in the dressing room. Rugby is a game based on respect, from respecting the ref to your opponents, if the Haka is to be respected, so be it. I agree with teams being kept to their own halves though, it'd just get silly having players walking up to each other.

I think Ireland's response a couple of years ago of going over to take off their tracksuits and stuff while the crowd sang The Fields was brilliant.

The "Munster Haka" has to be the most amazing piece of sporting theatre I've ever had the pleasure of witnessing in person.

Losty Dublin

Clareman wrote: »

The "Munster Haka" has to be the most amazing piece of sporting theatre I've ever had the pleasure of witnessing in person.

For people's pleasure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX_-OSK-yMA

cityman 18

Losty Dublin wrote: »

For people's pleasure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX_-OSK-yMA

Amazing stuff. what do people think Ireland should do when facing the Haka in November? I think it should be met with silence like the Munster supporters that night.

PaulyBolger

We should be allowed answer it. Its a call to war - you don't just stand there and take it.. YOU REPLY! if you look at tuilagi against the haka, he smiles and nods his head, accepting the challenge. Whether you walk up to them and stand up to them, or even a simple smile, you should be allowed.