Dealers call for help...again.

Sofiztikated

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/motoring/dealers-call-for-help-as-new-registrations-threaten-car-sales-29346483.html

Seriously, are these lads having a fúcking giraffe?

Sales are at less than half what they "should" be, so the Gubbermint should create some sort of stimulus package? Here's a mad fúcking idea, lads. Could it possibly have anything, anything at all, to do with the fact that less people have the money to spend on a new car?

Of course people are going to hold off in June, waiting for the 132 reg in July. Just like everyone here, and everyone I spoke to about it, said would happen.

How in the name of Superman have these people survived in business so far?

The Society of the [COLOR=#009900 !important]Irish[/COLOR] Motor Industry has mounted an information campaign. But sources say that there is the danger that the public may regard it as self-serving.

Of course it's self serving. When has SIMI done anything that wasn't?

Jaysus.

Atlantic Dawn

SIMI are under the misconception that people still have money to blow on a car, the days of fools adding the car to their mortgage are long gone.

In 2012 there were 76k new cars sold in Ireland with our population of 4.5 million. In the UK 1.1million new cars were sold with their population at 62 million. For 2012 we were pretty much bang on the UK figures, I wouldn't be expecting there should be a diference.

NIMAN

Maybe reduce your prices a bit lads?

Even taking VRT out of the equation, I find Ireland an expensive place to buy a car.

corktina

i see cars around Cork now with registrations in the 41000s...secondhand cars must truly be flooding in. Anyone got any figures?

NIMAN

... and as for the whole 131, 132 thing, that was always going to affect car sales as well.

I mean, if someone was going to buy a car in say Sept or Oct, they would hold off until the start of the year so they could have the new reg. Now that thinking is happening every 6 months instead.

" Its May, interested in buying a car. But if I buy now I will have a 131 reg, whereas hold off 2 months and get a 132". And so on ......

I can see the Gov reverting to '14' again next year instead of 141 and 142.

Sofiztikated

NIMAN wrote: »

I can see the Gov reverting to '14' again next year instead of 141 and 142.

SIMI wants to reassure you that that won't be happening.

corktina

we can't revert to 14 and admit it was all because of the Unlucky 13 thing...

_Kaiser_

AD above has it bang on the money I reckon.

People just don't have the money to be buying new cars anymore and banks aren't giving out "free money" anymore either.

This ridiculous 131/132 system has only made things worse IMO but I don't see the "surge" they're predicting happening either. There'll be an increase from the last month or two sure, but the above 2 reasons are why car sales are well down.

But no doubt now we'll get some other crazy scheme to encourage us all out to buy new cars - first it was the two-tier tax system, then this 131 shyte.. any predictions what the last part of the trilogy will be?

rocky

corktina wrote: »

i see cars around Cork now with registrations in the 41000s...secondhand cars must truly be flooding in. Anyone got any figures?

http://www.beepbeep.ie/stats/?sYear%5B%5D=2013&sYear%5B%5D=2012&sRegType=1&sMonth%5B%5D=&sMonth%5B%5D=&x=45&y=10

eire-kp

What about Tractor dealers, Construction plant, HGV dealerships etc. They all changed their business models, added new lines, reduced stock, changed in some way or went bust.

All good examples of these businesses put their customers first. For example my baler breaks down at 2pm on a Sunday afternoon I ring the dealer he's at home with the garage closed, within an hour himself and two of his mechanics are pulling the machine apart in their workshop and it's back in action.

Your car breaks down ring your local simi dealer....:rolleyes:

NIMAN

Something I would have seen a fair bit over the years in NI, and which I rarely see in RoI, is the 0% finance offer.

I think this would encourage sales for sure.

djimi

There are some indications that there could be a mini- splurge in July because latest figures for June sales show a 42pc plunge. That suggests people are waiting for 132 registrations.

I find it utterly amazed that a leading national newspaper has actually printed this line. Did anyone realistically think that anything other than this scenario would occur? Of course sales were going to tail off in April-June and pick up again in July when the new plate comes into effect. What did they think was going to happen?

_Kaiser_

eire-kp wrote: »

What about Tractor dealers, Construction plant, HGV dealerships etc. They all changed their business models, added new lines, reduced stock, changed in some way or went bust.

All good examples of these businesses put their customers first. For example my baler breaks down at 2pm on a Sunday afternoon I ring the dealer he's at home with the garage closed, within an hour himself and two of his mechanics are pulling the machine apart in their workshop and it's back in action.

Your car breaks down ring your local simi dealer....:rolleyes:

This is true.. it's ridiculous that you can't get a car serviced on a Saturday (whatever about Sundays - but if they're that stuck for cash it should be offered to customers too).

For most people getting a car looked at involves time off work or a whole day lost.

For example, I have to drop mine in for diags in the morning which means an hour or so lost there plus the same when I go to collect it. Luckily I'm in a job where that isn't a problem but that's not true for many.

ted1

There should be no stimulus to entice people to borrow money for the quickest depreciating asset you can buy.

OldmanMondeo

NIMAN wrote: »

Something I would have seen a fair bit over the years in NI, and which I rarely see in RoI, is the 0% finance offer.

I think this would encourage sales for sure.

But NI, which is part of the UK, is not bound by the Euro, so the banks in the UK can put what interest rates they want.

The main reasons for low sales are people not having the money to buy, job loses, reduced pay, higher outgoings, Household tax, increase PATE, increased cost of living, price of fuel. The price of cars, not just the actual cost, but the APR etc. Banks not giving loans, you cannot get finance on a 2 year old car over 5 years.

If SIMI really want to do something, they need to lobby the Goverment to reduce tax on fuel, reduce motor tax, lobby banks to offer better rates for buying. That might help save their group of traders.

NIMAN

Why are the simple laws of economics not allowed to operate in the car industry?
What makes it so special?

Terrontress

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

But NI, which is part of the UK, is not bound by the Euro, so the banks in the UK can put what interest rates they want.

.

Nonsense.

The bottom line is that 0% finance is a cost so they either have to take a hit on their margin, put the price up or cut a cost or product feature elsewhere.

MugMugs

Next thing the fishermen and farmers will be asking for help in these current times.....oh wait.

Old diesel

I would say that a stimulous package for SIMI and its dealers to promote car sales is a poor investment - because that money could and should be used to stimulate the wider economy.

This is because the SIMI dealers need the wider economy to grow and thrive in order for their customers to be able to buy cars. its pointless having a scrappage scheme for example or discounted VRT when you have 14 percent unemployment - and far too many people leaving Ireland due to lack of work.

Other industries will deliver a far superior return on stimulous investment in terms of jobs and growth - and that would benefit SIMI too.

They can do one basically - imo

Scortho

Not this scrappage lark again!

Whats wrong with old cars? Old cars, require more servicing, more parts to be replaced, which involves spending money in the local economy by going to a mechanic, be it indy or main dealer.

A scrappage scheme, which is basically a reduction in vrt from the government, incentivises consumers to spend their money on a product, where a significant proportion of its cost will be sent abroad to the likes of Germany and Japan.

Surely money spent in local garages, where a higher percentage of the servicing costs are retained by the mechanic and therefore retained and spent in the local economy is better for the Irish economy as whole?

Theres been six alfa romeos registered this year!:mad:

challengemaster

Only thing that will get cars moving again is remove VRT.

A quick example -

BMW 6 series Gran Coupé M Sport in UK - Total price - £68,790.00 (~€82k)
BMW 6 series Gran Coupé M Sport in Ireland - Total Price - just under €115,000

€33k in the difference is insane. You could just about buy an E92 M3 with that price difference.

I'm aware thats higher end of the scale, but same applies. The times of having their cake and eating it are gone.

RandomAccess

There will be a lot of these crocodile tears being shed since the announcement that the remainder of the national pension reserve fund are to be used for stimulus. The crooked industries will be showing up with cap in hand.
I would much rather see it go to those who would actually help the local economy, small food producing companies and exporters.

The wise thing to do would be to sit on it for the next inevitable rainy day, stimulus is a load of crap most people who use it were going to buy something anyway, this just means they pay less for it, which is really the opposite of stimulus.

Old diesel

RandomAccess wrote: »

There will be a lot of these crocodile tears being shed since the announcement that the remainder of the national pension reserve fund are to be used for stimulus. The crooked industries will be showing up with cap in hand.
I would much rather see it go to those who would actually help the local economy, small food producing companies and exporters.

The wise thing to do would be to sit on it for the next inevitable rainy day, stimulus is a load of crap most people who use it were going to buy something anyway, this just means they pay less for it, which is really the opposite of stimulus.

Depends what you mean by stimulus though - if you use the stimulus to help provide financial and other supports to companies who are developing innovative new products etc here in Ireland - or supporting small businesses who employ more people as a result - or increase exports then its good.

Agree 100 percent with you on the small food producers etc - could go on - but then id start a rant on what I think of the farming business model in this country - .

You make a very good point in how people using stimulus would be those who were going to buy something anyway. That's exactly what would happen with something like a scrappage scheme - and its exactly why SIMI and its members should be way down the bottom of the pile in terms of a stimulus package.

Guy:Incognito

corktina wrote: »

i see cars around Cork now with registrations in the 41000s...secondhand cars must truly be flooding in. Anyone got any figures?

Is 41k not the starting point for cork imports under the system that had to be brought in because apparently the computers couldnt handle taking the last number issued and adding 1 to it?

scamalert

I say let them garages die :cool: its costs arm and leg to buy or fix anything in dealerships,most of them were riding high during boom years when everyone had to have new plates after new year arrived,same was happening with the houses everyone had to buy one or two,that mentality still exists with dealerships.
And biggest problem in my opinion is,most new cars are heap of ****e,full of plastic and electronics that,couple years later they start failing in thus costing a fortune to fix them.
Sometime i wonder why people choose to buy some plastic box lix mazda 2,micra or other simillar brand new crap car and pay 10k with interest,when you can easily buy almost luxury class or sports car for couple grand and be happy for couple years driving it,or if cash is the issue get some jap car for 1k or two and pass it along couple generations,as its most likely that you'll give up first before the likes of Japanese car

jetfiremuck

How the simi have Nolan as the head of it is beyond me. They come up with this alter reality that more cars need to be sold than there are punters. Its the same as the sofa shops......ffs how many sofas need to get sold yearly, I mean who replaces a sofa every few years....so they close if they cant sell enough to cover costs.
Remember
1. Jap imports are dangerous.....need to be type cert.......killed that
2. Import reg change so people wouldnt be confused about the dodgy imports that were going around.
3. Scaremongering re nct ...old cars bad fail... Cost too much to fix, need to change to be safe
I could go on but I give up.....bunch of clowns the whole lot of them.

Hellrazer

scamalert wrote: »

I say let them garages die :cool:

Yeah why not do that and put another 20000 people on the dole :rolleyes::rolleyes:

The SIMI want to keep jobs and the only way to do that is if they sell cars.

Cars are way over priced here as can be seen from the amount of imports coming into the country.

Deal with that first and the Simi will sell more cars.VRT for new cars needs to go and go now.

Leave it there for imports and let Irish dealers sell cars.

There are a lot of countries that punish imports of cars while supporting their own countries motor industry.Thats the way it should be here.

Old diesel

Hellrazer wrote: »

Yeah why not do that and put another 20000 people on the dole :rolleyes::rolleyes:

The SIMI want to keep jobs and the only way to do that is if they sell cars.

Cars are way over priced here as can be seen from the amount of imports coming into the country.

Deal with that first and the Simi will sell more cars.VRT for new cars needs to go and go now.

Leave it there for imports and let Irish dealers sell cars.

There are a lot of countries that punish imports of cars while supporting their own countries motor industry.Thats the way it should be here.

The SIMI and its members want to make money - lets not get carried away here - the SIMI isn't being charitable in talks of creating jobs.

Ive said it already - and I will say it again - the SIMI needs other industries to be doing well so that motorists can purchase new cars.

Thus I say the thing to do - is to work on boosting other industries - stimulating employment - creating growth - with a focus on innovation etc.

The guys that needs supporting is the guy setting up a little business processing his own milk on the farm - or the guy setting up a new tourism and hospitality business that will bring people into the country, or the guy developing revoluntionary new innovative products designed and built in Ireland.

Or the entrepreneur with a brilliant idea - that can start and grow a good business potentially employing people.

Not some big cheese SIMI top dealer with a top of the range Audi showroom costing stupid sums of money. I mean does the fancy showroom create jobs - no.

Added value is where its at - and to my mind SIMI don't add value - yes their members deliver a service - but that service depends on other parts of the economy performing well.

My apologies if you though I was having a go at you personally

Scortho

Hellrazer wrote: »

Yeah why not do that and put another 20000 people on the dole :rolleyes::rolleyes:

The SIMI want to keep jobs and the only way to do that is if they sell cars.

Cars are way over priced here as can be seen from the amount of imports coming into the country.

Deal with that first and the Simi will sell more cars.VRT for new cars needs to go and go now.

Leave it there for imports and let Irish dealers sell cars.

There are a lot of countries that punish imports of cars while supporting their own countries motor industry.Thats the way it should be here.

Yeah there's 20,000 jobs at stake.
However if you remove or reduce vrt, you have to find the money somewhere else. So the gov reduces vrt by 10% and slaps a couple of % on income taxes.
Net result would be that the economy would be more fecked.
As old diesel has said it needs to be spent in areas stimulating the irish economy.
Not on something where a significant proportion of the money taken in will be sent abroad to car producing countries.

Hellrazer

Old diesel wrote: »

The SIMI and its members want to make money - lets not get carried away here - the SIMI isn't being charitable in talks of creating jobs.

Of course like any other business they want to make money. But keeping jobs is definitely high on their agenda.

Ive said it already - and I will say it again - the SIMI needs other industries to be doing well so that motorists can purchase new cars.

Definitely. The whole economy needs a stimulus.

Thus I say the thing to do - is to work on boosting other industries - stimulating employment - creating growth - with a focus on innovation etc.

The guys that needs supporting is the guy setting up a little business processing his own milk on the farm - or the guy setting up a new tourism and hospitality business that will bring people into the country, or the guy developing revoluntionary new innovative products designed and built in Ireland.

Or the entrepreneur with a brilliant idea - that can start and grow a good business potentially employing people.

I agree but this thread is about Simi looking for another hand out. They aren't even looking for a hand out...they want a level playing field and they cannot do that if someone can import a car cheaper then they can buy it here. It doesn't make sense. But its not just the motor trade that is in this position.Its every single industry. You can buy almost anything cheaper from abroad with the wonders of the internet. The bunch of usless fools in Dail Eireann cant see that though. If they want to stimulate people into buying goods here they need to make those goods competitive.FFS they raised VAT in the last budget.That killed off a lot of industries.They should have lowered it to stimulate people purchasing at home.

Not some big cheese SIMI top dealer with a top of the range Audi showroom costing stupid sums of money. I mean does the fancy showroom create jobs - no.

I agree they don't "create" jobs but they need staff to run them. However in saying that some manufacturers demanded that dealers build these big glass showrooms or not be a dealer. Ridiculous stuff.Ive worked in dealers that may aswell have been sheds and sold more cars and parts than dealers that paid stupid money for their glass showrooms.

Added value is where its at - and to my mind SIMI don't add value - yes their members deliver a service - but that service depends on other parts of the economy performing well.

I actually think Simi do add value. They aren't just a name but also a regulatory body for the motor trade.

My apologies if you though I was having a go at you personally

No apology necessary. Most users here know that Im in the trade and have been for 20 years now..Ive been through some changes in the trade from the highs of the 90s to the lows of the last 5 years or so. Ive seen friends loose jobs and places close and I hate hearing of dealers going bang.

Guy:Incognito

Scortho wrote: »

Yeah there's 20,000 jobs at stake.
However if you remove or reduce vrt, you have to find the money somewhere else. So the gov reduces vrt by 10% and slaps a couple of % on income taxes.
Net result would be that the economy would be more fecked.
As old diesel has said it needs to be spent in areas stimulating the irish economy.
Not on something where a significant proportion of the money taken in will be sent abroad to car producing countries.

Funny how these same arguement are not taken in to account when people are buying televisions or other goods. Presumably everyone here works for 100% irish owned companies selling only irish produced goods.

RedorDead

NIMAN wrote: »

Maybe reduce your prices a bit lads?

Even taking VRT out of the equation, I find Ireland an expensive place to buy a car.

Please do your research. When you look at pre tax prices Ireland has possibly the lowest car prices in Europe when specification adjusted. Dont be lazy.

Hellrazer

RedorDead wrote: »

Please do your research. When you look at pre tax prices Ireland has possibly the lowest car prices in Europe when specification adjusted. Dont be lazy.

Pre tax prices mean feck all to be honest.

What matters is what you "actually" pay for the car after taxes have been added.

NIMAN

RedorDead wrote: »

Please do your research. When you look at pre tax prices Ireland has possibly the lowest car prices in Europe when specification adjusted. Dont be lazy.

:(
Thats me told.

Guy:Incognito

Hellrazer wrote: »

Pre tax prices mean feck all to be honest

It does when the post being replies to says "even taking vrt out of the equation"

Sofiztikated

Don't get me wrong, I don't like dealers going bust, people out of a job.

But I do think SIMI are going about it all wrong. Instead of pushing for this 131/132 malarkey, and scrappage schemes, why not push for the decrease in VAT, and duties on fuels?

That'd have a greater, although longer term, benefit to their cause. Granted, the flip side would be the Government would try to raise the taxes somewhere else, but that wouldn't be SIMIs problem, that would be another lobby groups problem.

Drummerboy08

Hellrazer wrote: »

Pre tax prices mean feck all to be honest.

What matters is what you "actually" pay for the car after taxes have been added.

Unfortunately the Motor Industry can't be held responsible for that though.

challengemaster

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Unfortunately the Motor Industry can't be held responsible for that though.

They can't be held responsible, no. But as has been seen from the scrappage scheme, and the 131/132 plates, the motor industry or SIMI have an awful lot of power/influence to lead the government to making particular decisions. The problem is, they're leading them to making the wrong decisions, at least in terms of the overall picture.

While they can't be held accountable for the final price you pay for a car, they're certainly not trying very hard to change it either.

MidlandsM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

SIMI are under the misconception that people still have money to blow on a car.

ohhh, but how wrong you are, there is plenty of people with lots of cash hoarded away, thing is, they're just not spending it!

HandsomeDan

I don't accept that people not buying new cars is going to put more people on the dole. Quite the opposite I'd say.

goz83

ted1 wrote: »

There should be no stimulus to entice people to borrow money for the quickest depreciating asset you can buy.

Quickest depreciating asset i bought was my house. 1 year after purchase, it was worth half (200k down the jax) :pac:

Come to think of it, the interest more than doubles what was borrowed, so its over 400k blown. Any car you know depreciate like that?


I also think the 131 and 132 system is a bad idea, causing slow downs for several months in the year. If they really want consistency, then January 2013 should be 132. Feb = 132. June = 136. November = 1311 and so on. Nobody would be waiting for the next plate anymore with maybe the exception of december plates being low.

HandsomeDan

goz83 wrote: »

Quickest depreciating asset i bought was my house. 1 year after purchase, it was worth half (200k down the jax) :pac:

Come to think of it, the interest more than doubles what was borrowed, so its over 400k blown. Any car you know depreciate like that?

He was speaking in the present tense.

Lissavane

HandsomeDan wrote: »

I don't accept that people not buying new cars is going to put more people on the dole. Quite the opposite I'd say.

Agreed. If SIMI were genuinely interested in creating employment in the motor business and in the wider economy, they would encourage people to keep and maintain their old cars rather than buying new.

Selling cars is a trade, not an industry.

While Ireland has some component factories that export to foreign car manufacturers, the impact of Irish car sales on their output is tiny.

The most important and most labour intensive part of the motor industry in Ireland is repair and maintenance.

MidlandsM

Lissavane wrote: »

The most important and most labour intensive part of the motor industry in Ireland is repair and maintenance.

not to the economy its not, and thats whats needed here is good solid gains in tax take (vrt in sales) to grow our economy again. The fix/repair end of the business can't do that on its own.

goz83

HandsomeDan wrote: »

He was speaking in the present tense.

My question was in the present tense.

And sure, some cars rise in value, so theres no guarantee that you have sell for less, assuming you sell at all. Depreciation only matters if you plan to resell, which i know the vast majority will.

HandsomeDan

MidlandsM wrote: »

not to the economy its not, and thats whats needed here is good solid gains in tax take (vrt in sales) to grow our economy again. The fix/repair end of the business can't do that on its own.

Nope. Don't buy the tax your way out of a recession theory either.

nogoodnamesleft

corktina wrote: »

i see cars around Cork now with registrations in the 41000s...secondhand cars must truly be flooding in. Anyone got any figures?

I dont have figures but I was in Holyhead port about 4 weeks ago and saw about 10 car transporters filled with UK cars waiting to board the ferry to Dublin all were UK registered and from what I saw the oldest was about 3 years old.

Far as I can see with car prices between Ireland and the UK importing is still the way to go (in the majority of cases) unless the dealers can improve their service offering people will still buy elsewhere.

On a different note the UK has reported that this year has the highest number of new cars sold since 2007! Credit is a massive thing here in the UK as another poster mentioned with 0% interest offers and many companies such as utilities have hire purchase schemes for their employees thus a constant stream of good second hand cars that have been serviced.

JohnBoy26

MidlandsM wrote: »

ohhh, but how wrong you are, there is plenty of people with lots of cash hoarded away, thing is, they're just not spending it!

You have no proof or basis for your argument imo.

Imo people just can't afford to be buying uneccesery new cars in a time when new taxes and charges are being introduced and when other taxes are being hiked.

What ever money people have left is going to more important things than new cars. Simi don't seem to get this.

djimi

goz83 wrote: »

My question was in the present tense.

And sure, some cars rise in value, so theres no guarantee that you have sell for less, assuming you sell at all. Depreciation only matters if you plan to resell, which i know the vast majority will.

Depreciation on a car is guaranteed. Not so much the case when it comes to property. I know of plenty of people who made 10 times what they paid when they came to sell their house. Plenty of people will buy property in this current market that will most likely end up being worth more if the property market improves and house prices start to rise.

bigroad

I still cant understand why ireland cant manufacture their own range of cars.I mean in india and china they buy the old skoda superb and in china they make old passats.Why cant we say buy an older design off some manufacture and stick a popular diesel engine in and sell sell sell.Just look at how well the dacias are selling.It would create a few thosand jobs and it would keep more money in the country.But i suppose that would be using the head.

Atlantic Dawn

goz83 wrote: »

I also think the 131 and 132 system is a bad idea, causing slow downs for several months in the year. If they really want consistency, then January 2013 should be 132. Feb = 132. June = 136. November = 1311 and so on. Nobody would be waiting for the next plate anymore with maybe the exception of december plates being low.

I think this would be the best idea, clear month on each plate when was sold. Should be the most even method possible of spreading sales but there will still be a massive glut in January as you will get least depreciation buying at this time.