Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013

smileyj1987

opr wrote: »

If the whole Suarez thing wasn't in the background I can only imagine how stoked I'd currently be around the kind of business we seem to be currently doing.

Opr

The only thing that worries me is the fact we could have a few clubs attempting to low ball us .
If he goes well then fair enough and if he stays I'll support him . Whats annoying me the most right now is the fact he is talking so openly about a move . If he wants a move do the decent thing and hand in a transfer request so we can sell and replace him before pre season .

smileyj1987

smileyj1987 wrote: »

The only thing that worries me is the fact we could have a few clubs attempting to low ball us .
If he goes well then fair enough and if he stays I'll support him . Whats annoying me the most right now is the fact he is talking so openly about a move . If he wants a move do the decent thing and hand in a transfer request so we can sell and replace him before pre season .

Let them lowball us. We are under no obligation to sell. He has 4 years left and LFC are in the driving seat in this deal.

Tbh, it's refreshing to see us with an advantage in a deal.

smileyj1987

rarnes1 wrote: »

Let them lowball us. We are under no obligation to sell. He has 4 years left and LFC are in the driving seat in this deal.

Tbh, it's refreshing to see us with an advantage in a deal.

Yup thats more like the attitude we should be taking towards the situation . Right now if LFC decide to sell we should be looking for 60 million plus because we sold Torres for 50 million . To me Suarez has that something a little bit extra compared to Torres so we should look for more money .

smileyj1987

mike65 wrote: »

Carroll is off to West Ham, and only his medical can stop him! :eek: :pac:

Keep him away from the boozer I don't want him falling off a bar stool until it's completed .

plannerscanner

Great to see so much apparent movement in the transfer market and from what can be ascertained the additions will enhance the squad. However, as much as the attacking quarter needs an upgrade the defense is also crying out for an overhaul.

Leaving aside the goalkeeping issue, the whole of the back 4 needs attention. Like many here I like to watch Agger play. He has an assuredness on the ball that is very pleasing to the eye, however, when it comes to the nitty gritty of defending set pieces he looks either too timid or totally unsure of what his role is. Carra's presence helped in the second half of the season and Toure will no doubt bring leadership to the CB position but I'm not sure how a 22 year old Papa will get on (if he is the one to join).

Personally I would like to see Skertel get a second chance next year. He is a no nonsense defender who had a very expansive game thrust upon him at the start of last season. From the time of his ommission Rodgers had finally come around to abandoning his overly strict 'build from the back' and tiki taka ideals, whilst also allowing the back four to play much deeper. More pragmatism is required to rehabilitate Skertel allowing the defensive line to much up the pitch marginally and reduce the expansive responsibilities put upon Skertel (I think he played more football in the home Man City game then he had for half the season previously - and it was no surprise he eventually made a mistake). A further positive Skertel provides comes from the same game - he can score from set plays, a severe deficincy in Liverpool teams for a number of years now.

Any thoughts???

NabyLadistheman

mike65 wrote: »

Carroll is off to West Ham, and only his medical can stop him! :eek: :pac:

He's probably been in Ibiza since the season ended so don't expect medical tests to be that strong!!

Leiva

opr wrote: »

Barret now reporting in The Times that we're willing to pay Mkhitaryan £22m release clause to bring him to Liverpool.

Opr

He also says that LFC are confident of landing Luis Alberto

daithijjj

opr wrote: »

It's such a pity this Suarez thing is ongoing. It's great to see how active we seem to be in the market but any emotion is currently being heavily tempered by the whole Suarez saga to the point that hearing about a potentially massive signing like this actually looking like it will happen isn't really causing any major excitement level for me at the moment.

If the whole Suarez thing wasn't in the background I can only imagine how stoked I'd currently be around the kind of business we seem to be doing.

Opr

It's difficult to know what to think. For all anyone knows the club are trying to get players in early in some part to stop getting bent over in every attempt to get a player this window and that they have already decided to flog him. More difficult to get players when everyone knows you have 40m (plus 15) incoming. Add in Reina and Skrtel and you could be talking about 65/70m and largely just replacing what you have lost/sold.

Personally, im not arsed in the slightest whether the players come in early, all that matters is that they are the right players. Im more worried about this 8m Alberto deal than the 22m one. The lad was offered out for 3m last year and nobody took it up. A lot of cash for a young player who probably wont start. It would go a long long way to getting a pretty decent CB which we need far more imo.

daithijjj

Suarezistheman wrote: »

He's probably been in Ibiza since the season ended so don't expect medical tests to be that strong!!

Stevie and Carra are there i think. Is it the new Marbella or something?

Leiva

daithijjj wrote: »

The lad was offered out for 3m last year and nobody took it up. A lot of cash for a young player who probably wont start. It would go a long long way to getting a pretty decent CB which we need far more imo.

Who what when where ?

McSasquatch

Leiva wrote: »

He also says that LFC are confident of landing Luis Alberto

OT but what movie is that from? The dancer is the spit of Di Caprio, but can't place the movie.

Edit: The Wolf of Wall Street trailer?

jenno86

plannerscanner wrote: »

Great to see so much apparent movement in the transfer market and from what can be ascertained the additions will enhance the squad. However, as much as the attacking quarter needs an upgrade the defense is also crying out for an overhaul. Leaving aside the goalkeeping issue, the whole of the back 4 needs attention. Like many here I like to watch Agger play. He has an assuredness on the ball that is very pleasing to the eye, however, when it comes to the nitty gritty of defending set pieces he looks either too timid or totally unsure of what his role is. Carra's presence helped in the second half of the season and Toure will no doubt bring leadership to the CB position but I'm not sure how a 22 year old Papa will get on (if he is the one to join). Personally I would like to see Skertel get a second chance next year. He is a no nonsense defender who had a very expansive game thrust upon him at the start of last season. From the time of his ommission Rodgers had finally come around to abandoning his overly strict 'build from the back' and tiki taka ideals, whilst also allowing the back four to play much deeper. More pragmatism is required to rehabilitate Skertel allowing the defensive line to much up the pitch marginally and reduce the expansive responsibilities put upon Skertel (I think he played more football in the home Man City game then he had for half the season previously - and it was no surprise he eventually made a mistake). A further positive Skertel provides comes from the same game - he can score from set plays, a severe deficincy in Liverpool teams for a number of years now. Any thoughts???

tl;dr

Break up the big paragraphs, makes it easier to read!

NabyLadistheman

Whatever about how good he is, Luis Alberto has one hell of a name!

Luckycharms_74

opr wrote: »

Barret now reporting in The Times that we're willing to pay Mkhitaryan £22m release clause to bring him to Liverpool.

Opr

Lets all learn how to pronounce it :pac::pac::pac:

Knex*

The lad Eric Micky-ran.

Got it.

daithijjj

Leiva wrote: »

Who what when where ?

Widely reported Barca didnt take the option to sign him for 3.8m euro. Had to double check it but seems to be right.

PRAF

plannerscanner wrote: »

Great to see so much apparent movement in the transfer market and from what can be ascertained the additions will enhance the squad. However, as much as the attacking quarter needs an upgrade the defense is also crying out for an overhaul.

Leaving aside the goalkeeping issue, the whole of the back 4 needs attention. Like many here I like to watch Agger play. He has an assuredness on the ball that is very pleasing to the eye, however, when it comes to the nitty gritty of defending set pieces he looks either too timid or totally unsure of what his role is. Carra's presence helped in the second half of the season and Toure will no doubt bring leadership to the CB position but I'm not sure how a 22 year old Papa will get on (if he is the one to join).

Personally I would like to see Skertel get a second chance next year. He is a no nonsense defender who had a very expansive game thrust upon him at the start of last season. From the time of his ommission Rodgers had finally come around to abandoning his overly strict 'build from the back' and tiki taka ideals, whilst also allowing the back four to play much deeper. More pragmatism is required to rehabilitate Skertel allowing the defensive line to much up the pitch marginally and reduce the expansive responsibilities put upon Skertel (I think he played more football in the home Man City game then he had for half the season previously - and it was no surprise he eventually made a mistake). A further positive Skertel provides comes from the same game - he can score from set plays, a severe deficincy in Liverpool teams for a number of years now.

Any thoughts???

I think you're right in that we were a little shaky at the back last season. In particular we seemed to struggle at defending set plays. Strangely that wasn't just the first team though, IIIRC it also seemed to affect the reserves and youth sides. I hope the coaching staff look to address that for next season.

Unfortunately I don't think Skrtl is the answer. While he looks hard as nails, he is actually as soft as a teddybear. He gets totally dominated by big, mobile CFs. Even stranger still is that while Skrtl and Agger are poor at defending set plays, they are not too bad at attacking set plays.

For set plays, I think the answer is partly personnel and partly system. If we get a big, bruising, dominant centre half and revert to a zonal defence, I think we'll go a long way to solving our defensive problems. Easier said than done though!

skywalker

daithijjj wrote: »

It's difficult to know what to think. For all anyone knows the club are trying to get players in early in some part to stop getting bent over in every attempt to get a player this window and that they have already decided to flog him. More difficult to get players when everyone knows you have 40m (plus 15) incoming. Add in Reina and Skrtel and you could be talking about 65/70m and largely just replacing what you have lost/sold.

Personally, im not arsed in the slightest whether the players come in early, all that matters is that they are the right players. Im more worried about this 8m Alberto deal than the 22m one. The lad was offered out for 3m last year and nobody took it up. A lot of cash for a young player who probably wont start. It would go a long long way to getting a pretty decent CB which we need far more imo.

Going by the amount of attacking talent were being linked to, Rodgers & the scouts seem to be very focused on making sure we have plenty of goalscoring options next season, both in the first 11 & coming off the bench. No bad thing imo. As he said in an interview the other day, he thinks we need to add another 20 goals this summer to have a shot at CL next year.

For all the bad press the defence got last season, didnt we only conceed something like an extra 4 or 5 goals from the previous season? I dont think we need a huge overhaul at the back. If the extent of it was Toure coming in & skrytl going out, I wouldnt lose too much sleep over it tbh. Or if we also added Llori & loaned out/sold Coates, same thing. If we strengthen more with someone like Papa then great, but as you say Id rather it be the right player or not at all. If his knee is that big a concern, then pass him over & move to the next target.

GTR63

Ah i'll have to create this guy in FIFA he's a 88 all round yeah.
I find it strange nobody is going strong for Eriksen.

Demosthenese

plannerscanner wrote: »

Great to see so much apparent movement in the transfer market and from what can be ascertained the additions will enhance the squad. However, as much as the attacking quarter needs an upgrade the defense is also crying out for an overhaul.

Leaving aside the goalkeeping issue, the whole of the back 4 needs attention. Like many here I like to watch Agger play. He has an assuredness on the ball that is very pleasing to the eye, however, when it comes to the nitty gritty of defending set pieces he looks either too timid or totally unsure of what his role is. Carra's presence helped in the second half of the season and Toure will no doubt bring leadership to the CB position but I'm not sure how a 22 year old Papa will get on (if he is the one to join).

Personally I would like to see Skertel get a second chance next year. He is a no nonsense defender who had a very expansive game thrust upon him at the start of last season. From the time of his ommission Rodgers had finally come around to abandoning his overly strict 'build from the back' and tiki taka ideals, whilst also allowing the back four to play much deeper. More pragmatism is required to rehabilitate Skertel allowing the defensive line to much up the pitch marginally and reduce the expansive responsibilities put upon Skertel (I think he played more football in the home Man City game then he had for half the season previously - and it was no surprise he eventually made a mistake). A further positive Skertel provides comes from the same game - he can score from set plays, a severe deficincy in Liverpool teams for a number of years now.

Any thoughts???

Agger and Johnson are both poor in the air and not aggressive enough in the tackle. They make up for it somewhat in their coolness on the ball and attacking prowess. But there is no doubt that both were targetted last season as weaklinks from setpieces. They need a solid no nonsense defender beside them that eats headers and is always on the frontfoot - aggressive. Hard to find though these days. We seem to be looking at 20 yr olds and that can be a gamble.

As for Skrtel - he has been found out as a defender somewhat - Br wants players that can play a pass from the back and he simply makes too many mistakes on the ball. That said, some great defenders of the past were poor on the ball, Carra being a massive culprit! ) BUT he knew when to let it fly. I cannot see Skrtel being rehabilitated at this stage, he barely featured since xmas and that doesn;t souns to me that BR will give him another chance.

Liverpool - depending where the Suarez situation lands - need to sort out their defence that means 1 top quality centre half (Lets just go and buy someone established and thrown 20mill at them) and proper cover for fullbacks too. Added to that we have no natural cover for Lucas either.

No point having worldclass attacking options if you cannot keep a clean sheet.

plannerscanner

PRAF wrote: »

I think you're right in that we were a little shaky at the back last season. In particular we seemed to struggle at defending set plays. Strangely that wasn't just the first team though, IIIRC it also seemed to affect the reserves and youth sides. I hope the coaching staff look to address that for next season.

Unfortunately I don't think Skrtl is the answer. While he looks hard as nails, he is actually as soft as a teddybear. He gets totally dominated by big, mobile CFs. Even stranger still is that while Skrtl and Agger are poor at defending set plays, they are not too bad at attacking set plays.

For set plays, I think the answer is partly personnel and partly system. If we get a big, bruising, dominant centre half and revert to a zonal defence, I think we'll go a long way to solving our defensive problems. Easier said than done though!

Straight away I agree on the zonal marking system. It certainly empowers players to attack the ball. It can be tailored also to pin point certain attackers for special attention - however you will always have the nay-sayers who love a small man on the back post.

As for being dominated by big centre halves - I agree that Matt Smith did a job on a mentally brittle Skrtel - but bar AC how many 'old fashioned English CF's' will he be up against next season??

From fans player of the year to out the door in 12 months seems a bit harsh

mike65

daithijjj wrote: »

Personally, im not arsed in the slightest whether the players come in early, all that matters is that they are the right players. Im more worried about this 8m Alberto deal than the 22m one. The lad was offered out for 3m last year and nobody took it up. A lot of cash for a young player who probably wont start. It would go a long long way to getting a pretty decent CB which we need far more imo.

Alberto will start, that Barca choose not to take up the option on him heardly reflects poorly on the player - look at it this way. How many Barca B players can the senior squad draw from every summer? They have have Gerard Deulofeu coming through and Rafael Alcântara, they also have Tello who is semi established in the first team.

If you are a goal scoring midfielder/attacker in that set up you have to be pretty damned hot to make it and preferably already owned by the club, why would they spend more money on yet another option they don't actually need?

Alberto should thank his stars they didn't buy him, he'd be lucky to play a Kings Cup game for them.

daithijjj

skywalker wrote: »

Going by the amount of attacking talent were being linked to, Rodgers & the scouts seem to be very focused on making sure we have plenty of goalscoring options next season, both in the first 11 & coming off the bench. No bad thing imo. As he said in an interview the other day, he thinks we need to add another 20 goals this summer to have a shot at CL next year.

For all the bad press the defence got last season, didnt we only conceed something like an extra 4 or 5 goals from the previous season? I dont think we need a huge overhaul at the back. If the extent of it was Toure coming in & skrytl going out, I wouldnt lose too much sleep over it tbh. Or if we also added Llori & loaned out/sold Coates, same thing. If we strengthen more with someone like Papa then great, but as you say Id rather it be the right player or not at all. If his knee is that big a concern, then pass him over & move to the next target.

I understand the emphasis is on attacking more but at the same time we are looking at a season where a CB partnership will be new together, we wont have Carra to step in like this season and likely looking at 3 leaving. Carra coming in shored things up a bit. We only conceded 6 in Carra's last 11 games, the one he missed in last 12 we shipped 3 at Southampton. Basically by late Feb/early March we had conceded the same as the season before. It was the run in where Carra came back into the team that settled us through to end of the season. Need to get the balance right.

Demosthenese

plannerscanner wrote: »

Straight away I agree on the zonal marking system. It certainly empowers players to attack the ball. It can be tailored also to pin point certain attackers for special attention - however you will always have the nay-sayers who love a small man on the back post.

As for being dominated by big centre halves - I agree that Matt Smith did a job on a mentally brittle Skrtel - but bar AC how many 'old fashioned English CF's' will he be up against next season??

From fans player of the year to out the door in 12 months seems a bit harsh

Think too many people get bogged down on zonal marking versus touch tight ... at the end of the day there are certain types of defenders that eat headers/crosses for breakfast and those that watch hoping others take the responsibility from them. Terry/Jagielka/Shawcross are the type that would take a bullett for the team. Need to be mentally strong and unfortunately ours have weak minds. you can change the marking system but changing their mental attitude is something different entirely.

daithijjj

mike65 wrote: »

Alberto will start, that Barca choose not to take up the option on him heardly reflects poorly on the player - look at it this way. How many Barca B players can the senior squad draw from every summer? They have have Gerard Deulofeu coming through and Rafael Alcântara, they also have Tello who is semi established in the first team.

If you are a goal scoring midfielder/attacker in that set up you have to be pretty damned hot to make it and preferably already owned by the club, why would they spend more money on yet another option they don't actually need?

Alberto should thank his stars they didn't buy him, he'd be lucky to play a Kings Cup game for them.

Start in place of?. He has only had a handful of senior games (a good few as sub) in La Liga.

Its not that i think he is a bad player (i havent seen much), its the fact the option was for 3.8, turned down and now we are paying 8. Seems like top dollar to me and a great deal for Sevilla.

Kess73

Suarezistheman wrote: »

He's probably been in Ibiza since the season ended so don't expect medical tests to be that strong!!

Carroll is in Florida. There was a statement from Allardyce just a day or two ago that said one of the things causing a delay in the negotiations between him and West Ham was the fact that Carroll is in Florida, his agent was in London and Allardyce was in Spain.

plannerscanner

Demosthenese wrote: »

Think too many people get bogged down on zonal marking versus touch tight ... at the end of the day there are certain types of defenders that eat headers/crosses for breakfast and those that watch hoping others take the responsibility from them. Terry/Jagielka/Shawcross are the type that would take a bullett for the team. Need to be mentally strong and unfortunately ours have weak minds. you can change the marking system but changing their mental attitude is something different entirely.

You could make a case for adding Skrtel to that list (although perhaps not in the class of Terry). As I pointed out earlier a balance between the two is the most desirable, but for a player like Agger who has difficulties tracking players who run to the front post zonal is the system that suits him the most.

I think the weak minds comment is a tad harsh. PRAF makes the valid point that defending set plays seems to be an issue right through the ranks at LFC. Does Rodgers employ a dedicated defensive coach? It would certainly do no harm as long as it would not upset the 'transitions' of play,

messinkiapina

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/liverpools-luis-suarez-transfer-ultimatum-1958900

Angry Liverpool will deliver a put-up-or-shut-up ultimatum to loose-lipped star Luis Suarez.

Weary of the unsettled striker's almost daily public pronouncements on his future, the Anfield giants will now lay down the law and demand he put in an official transfer request if he remains determined to leave.

The Uruguay international - currently on Confederations Cup duty in Brazil - has turned what promises to be this summer's biggest transfer saga into a near farce by offering regular, spectacularly unsubtle, hints that he is desperate to move to Real Madrid.

Yet there is genuine bafflement within Anfield about the reasoning behind his comments, following the latest outburst in which he suggested he has lacked backing in England, and he would "give his heart and soul" to Real.

Suarez has a clause in his contract allowing him to leave if an offer exceeding £40million is made, a fact which makes all of his many and varied outbursts redundant.

So far though, no interest in the player has been expressed by any club, let alone formal offers made.

Instead of continuing to snipe at the club, their supporters and the British media, Liverpool now want Suarez to simply come clean and tell them he wants to go.

That of course, would mean the player forfeiting any cut of the transfer fee.

Manager Brendan Rodgers has had enough of the posturing and positioning, and is now ready to deliver an ultimatum that the situation be sorted quickly.

Rodgers has already spoken to Suarez, making clear Liverpool's position.

They don't want him to leave, but are powerless to prevent him triggering the clause in his contract.

He will, though, have to ask for a move, and will also need to sort his future before the club jet off to Asia and Australia in the middle of next month for a pre-season tour.

A club insider explained on Monday that there is a growing sense of frustration and anger within Anfield.

"Luis will be told - in no uncertain terms - he must put his cards on the table, and do it quickly," the source explained.

"There is no way Brendan Rodgers will be left high and dry with no options if Suarez forces a move, so he wants it to be sorted one way or another before the season begins."

That will mean a time-limit being set on any deal - and a clear message sent to both the player and the club he wants to join, Real, that there will be no budging on the price set out in his contract.

Real have yet to even make an enquiry, and Suarez's continuing outbursts strongly suggest they are trying to force the price down by encouraging the player to agitate for a move and make it impossible for him to stay at Anfield.

Liverpool are wise to that predictable tactic though, and it will not be allowed to happen.

They will consider a player-plus-cash deal, with Spain Under-21 star Alvaro Morata moving to Merseyside as a way of allowing Real to meet the get-out clause.

Morata, the top scorer at the European U21 Championship currently being held in Israel, has said he will be forced to leave the Bernabeu if Real buy either Suarez or Napoli's Edinson Cavani this summer.

The Spanish giants are reluctant to let such a promising youngster leave, though.

If they remain intransigent, Suarez will be told to put in a transfer request on a £40m take-it-or-leave-it transfer.

mike65

daithijjj wrote: »

Start in place of?. He has only had a handful of senior games (a good few as sub) in La Liga.

Its not that i think he is a bad player (i havent seen much), its the fact the option was for 3.8, turned down and now we are paying 8. Seems like top dollar to me and a great deal for Sevilla.

Its a good deal for Sevilla no doubt, as they like every other team outside the Big Two need the cash.

Obviously it depends on the formation (and dare I say it if Suarez is still at the club and if not whether he is replaced in a direct fashion) I see him rotating with whoever else starts right side and also playing as a number 10 at times. With Alberto and Armenia Chap arriving Downing and Shelvey are either goneski or will have to be happy picking splinters out of their arses. I think they will both go if both these two arrive (Shelvey is almost certainly going anyway).

random example formation (I think Rodgers is going to have a squad who's attacking half is so flexible formation prediction could be pointless)

---

Mignolet?
Johnson--XXXX--Agger--Enrique

---

Lucas

---

Gerrard
Alberto----Armenia---Coutinho

---

Sturridge

throw in Borini, Aspas and whoever (?) comes in for Suarez should he go, plus Hendo, Allen and then Suso, Sterling. Its all quite hectic!

Just need to buy a couple of defenders...

opr

daithijjj wrote: »

Widely reported Barca didnt take the option to sign him for 3.8m euro. Had to double check it but seems to be right.

Yeah that's true from what I've read but he wasn't offered around at that price. It was a buy clause built into the loan deal. They have a wealth a talent in his position so while it's a slight negative it isn't something I'd be particularly worried about. Barcelona probably feel they have other youth talents of similar ability they rather concentrate on developing for nothing. Most of the things I've read put him in the top 2/3 players in that B team last year.

Opr

daithijjj

Kess73 wrote: »

Carroll is in Florida. There was a statement from Allardyce just a day or two ago that said one of the things causing a delay in the negotiations between him and West Ham was the fact that Carroll is in Florida, his agent was in London and Allardyce was in Spain.

Carroll was on twitter earlier (in case you didnt see it) and retweeted a lad who got his name on his kids West Ham shirt. Tomorrow is probably the earliest the thing would even need to get done coz most are still on the hols.

Morzadec

I'm going to put this out there - Suarez will stay.

No one will match his valuation, we're not in a position where we have to accept a below valuation offer. All the noises from the club seem to be saying that teams will have to pay top dollar.

Suarez will have to stay reluctantly at first. Fans will initially be a bit frosty towards him due to all he's said.

Then Suarez will come back from his suspension and he will be hungry. The guy is a winner and a competitor first and foremost, and even if he didn't get the move he was angling for, I have no doubt he'll come in and give 100% as always.

After a few top class performances all will be forgotten and we'll all love him again, such is the fickle football fan.

We saw with Modric at Spurs, after a summer of angling for a move and stating clearly he wanted to leave, he didn't get his move. He went on to have probably his best season in a Spurs shirt.

I honestly think there is a very decent chance of Suarez staying and being a big asset next season.

Knex*

Sure Thiago isn't even a guaranteed starter, nor Cesc for that matter at Barca.

Alberto would nearly need Messi like potential (exaggeration, I know) for them to buy him at the moment.

daithijjj

mike65 wrote: »

Its a good deal for Sevilla no doubt, as they like every other team outside the Big Two need the cash.

Obviously it depends on the formation (and dare I say it if Suarez is still at the club and if not whether he is replaced in a direct fashion) I see him rotating with whoever else starts right side and also playing as a number 10 at times. With Alberto and Armenia Chap arriving Downing and Shelvey are either goneski or will have to be happy picking splinters out of their arses. I think they will both go if both these two arrive (Shelvey is almost certainly going anyway).

random example formation (I think Rodgers is going to have a squad who's attacking half is so flexible formation prediction could be pointless)

---

Mignolet?
Johnson--XXXX--Agger--Enrique

---

Lucas

---

Gerrard
Alberto----Armenia---Coutinho

---

Sturridge

throw in Borini, Aspas and whoever (?) comes in for Suarez should he go, plus Hendo, Allen and then Suso, Sterling. Its all quite hectic!

Just need to buy a couple of defenders...

I think it will be a fair bit longer before he gets regular games tbh. 21 soon and not many senior games under his belt, never mind the change to the EPL.

Demosthenese

plannerscanner wrote: »

You could make a case for adding Skrtel to that list (although perhaps not in the class of Terry). As I pointed out earlier a balance between the two is the most desirable, but for a player like Agger who has difficulties tracking players who run to the front post zonal is the system that suits him the most.

I think the weak minds comment is a tad harsh. PRAF makes the valid point that defending set plays seems to be an issue right through the ranks at LFC. Does Rodgers employ a dedicated defensive coach? It would certainly do no harm as long as it would not upset the 'transitions' of play,

Well, Rodgers needs to take a serious look at the setpiece defending as a whole. There is no doubt. by saying weak minds, i mean - at any level there are those that are more willing to put themselves in the firing line when the going gets tough. Look at Sammi Hypia/Carra as fine Liverpool examples of this, another that springs to mind would be Henchoz. Now contrast them with Agger/Johnson and it becomes clearer. I will withdraw the weak minded comment but would still have to swap it with "having the balls" to make certain challenges

But yes, i agree it is about having a good solid relationship between the two, something we've lacked recently and to bridge that gap we need to make sure we do not mess this one up. Brendan must get it right cos making a mistake at centre half is one that proves more costly than others. Look at Arsenal since losing Adams/Keown ...

As for how we are coached on setpieces etc, i'd love to have insight into that i really would. But personally i still believe that no matter if we go Zonal or not it is down to the player, what is inside of him and how strong mentally he is when competing.

daithijjj

opr wrote: »

Yeah that's true from what I've read but he wasn't offered around at that price. It was a buy clause built into the loan deal. They have a wealth a talent in his position so while it's a slight negative it isn't something I'd be particularly worried about. Barcelona probably feel they have other youth talents of similar ability they rather concentrate on developing for nothing. Most of the things I've read put him in the top 2/3 players in that B team last year.

Opr

I understand all that, and i know the Spain u21 team is strong but still seems like top whack for someone who is 21 soon (only had 1 run out for u21's?) given the standard of what he has played against to date.

Havent seen much of him but its more the level of senior football behind him that id be wary of. I can see it taking 2 seasons for him to settle in if he indeed manages it, in that regard its pretty big money to outlay right now considering its LFC we are on about.

plannerscanner

Demosthenese wrote: »

Well, Rodgers needs to take a serious look at the setpiece defending as a whole. There is no doubt. by saying weak minds, i mean - at any level there are those that are more willing to put themselves in the firing line when the going gets tough. Look at Sammi Hypia/Carra as fine Liverpool examples of this, another that springs to mind would be Henchoz. Now contrast them with Agger/Johnson and it becomes clearer. I will withdraw the weak minded comment but would still have to swap it with "having the balls" to make certain challenges

But yes, i agree it is about having a good solid relationship between the two, something we've lacked recently and to bridge that gap we need to make sure we do not mess this one up. Brendan must get it right cos making a mistake at centre half is one that proves more costly than others. Look at Arsenal since losing Adams/Keown ...

As for how we are coached on setpieces etc, i'd love to have insight into that i really would. But personally i still believe that no matter if we go Zonal or not it is down to the player, what is inside of him and how strong mentally he is when competing.

Certainly the 2 players who don't exactly command the box when it's time for defending. I accept your point here. And you're right, the central defensive axis can make or break a team. It's clear from Rodgers that he has a very specific way of attacking and he certainly puts that to the fore.

I'm not going to get bogged down in the 'is he or isn't he good enough' but I am keeping an eye on his plans for defense as it will be a deal breaker for me if he doesn't present a cohesive unit at the start of next season.

opr

daithijjj wrote: »

I understand all that, and i know the Spain u21 team is strong but still seems like top whack for someone who is 21 soon (only had 1 run out for u21's?) given the standard of what he has played against to date.

Havent seen much of him but its more the level of senior football behind him that id be wary of. I can see it taking 2 seasons for him to settle in if he indeed manages it, in that regard its pretty big money to outlay right now considering its LFC we are on about.

Yeah I can see the argument.

I had huge reservations about the Coutinho deal as it looked another quite strange one considering it was hard to fathom why Inter would let him go if he was any good and especially so given they used the money from his sale to sign another 18 year old kid. That has turned out pretty well. I guess we just have to trust these new scouts know what they're at considering none of us will have seen much of him.

Opr

opr

I see Benitez tried to sign him while at Liverpool many years ago. I wonder is the connection coming from the Academy and Borrell rather than the scouts then.

http://sabotagetimes.com/reportage/luis-alberto-everything-liverpool-fans-need-to-know-about-the-next-iniesta/

Opr

daithijjj

opr wrote: »

Yeah I can see the argument.

I had huge reservations about the Coutinho deal as it looked another quite strange one considering it was hard to fathom why Inter would let him go if he was any good and especially so given they used the money from his sale to sign another 18 year old kid. That has turned out pretty well. I guess we just have to trust these new scouts know what they're at considering none of us will have seen much of him.

Opr

Well i think most of us would have been taken aback by Coutinho coming in but where he differs is having played against 'grown men' for 60 games or so in top divisions.

tok9

opr wrote: »

I see Benitez tried to sign him while at Liverpool many years ago. I wonder is the connection coming from the Academy and Borrell rather than the scouts then.

http://sabotagetimes.com/reportage/luis-alberto-everything-liverpool-fans-need-to-know-about-the-next-iniesta/

Opr

I imagine the connection is just on the basis of those scouts that saw him. Managers may change, but the data on scouted players and a lot of the scouts would still be at Liverpool.

opr

daithijjj wrote: »

Well i think most of us would have been taken aback by Coutinho coming in but where he differs is having played against 'grown men' for 60 games or so in top divisions.

Didn't he play against grown men last year for the Barca B team? Reserve teams in Spain play in the same league system as the senior teams, rather than in a youth league. Much of the reason they tend to develop youth players who are first team ready much better than England.

Opr

5starpool

Looking at the Spanish Segunda B table it looks like an entertaining division. Barca B scored 76 and conceded 71 in 42 games, (2nd highest scored and conceded).

opr

5starpool wrote: »

Looking at the Spanish Segunda B table it looks like an entertaining division. Barca B scored 76 and conceded 71 in 42 games, (2nd highest scored and conceded).

Was just looking at that myself. Barca/Real have the two highest scoring rates in league. I wonder at that level do they just concentrate on how to attack as they both have on the flip side two of the worst defensive records :pac:

Opr

5starpool

opr wrote: »

Was just looking at that myself. Barca/Real have the two highest scoring rates in league. I wonder at that level do they just concentrate on how to attack as they both have on the flip side two of the worst defensive records :pac:

Opr

Neither can get promoted anyhow so no point having a win at all costs strategy. I guess they educate defenders elsewhere

Juniorhurler

Alberto has impressive stats in a division which is from a technical viewpoint better than the blood and guts of the championship. I would say (based on stats and taking into account the system BR wants to play) that he would be a far better option than Tom Ince who most on here were happy to be linked with in January. Just my opinion.

Hidalgo

daithijjj wrote: »

Well i think most of us would have been taken aback by Coutinho coming in but where he differs is having played against 'grown men' for 60 games or so in top divisions.

Another and for me almost more important difference is that by the time Couthinho came to Liverpool, he had moved from Brazil to italy, then the loan move to Spain.
Alberto on the other hand has never played outside Spain afaik so settling into a new country could be trickier,
then again I've never seen the lad play so he could be like a duck to water,
On appearances, he's made 8 for Sevilla 1st team and 38 for Barca B so he has played quite a few games V 'grown men', albeit the majority at a lower level than Couthinho

daithijjj

opr wrote: »

Didn't he play against grown men last year for the Barca B team? Reserve teams in Spain play in the same league system as the senior teams, rather than in a youth league. Much of the reason they tend to develop youth players who are first team ready much better than England.

Opr

I meant in terms of both level and physicality, i mean there's some football going on there where you could not see a tackle going in for 15 mins. Id be far happier if he had 30 games or so in La Liga.

opr

daithijjj wrote: »

I meant in terms of both level and physicality, i mean there's some football going on there where you could not see a tackle going in for 15 mins. Id be far happier if he had 30 games or so in La Liga.

Pacheco destroyed the reserve league in England for half a season this year. Was probably our best youth player until he went on loan this season to Huesca in the same B league. From what I can gather he didn't really standout while this guy has 11 goals and 17 assists. Playing in the better team obviously helps but I think it shows the kind of level this guy could be at compared to some of our youngsters.

Opr

daithijjj

opr wrote: »

Pacheco destroyed the reserve league in England for half a season this year. Was probably our best youth player until he went on loan this season to Huesca in the same B league. From what I can gather he didn't really standout while this guy has 11 goals and 17 assists. Playing in the better team obviously helps but I think it shows the kind of level this guy could be at compared to some of our youngsters.

Opr

I suppose the crux of where im going with this is basically that there better not be excuses at the end of the window. If we are willing to put 8m towards this player, who isnt a necessity right now imo, then we better be willing to meet the price of the players that we need right now.