if you were building a commuter bike...

lennymc

I'm thinking of building a commuter that could be used year round for my commute. Commute is about 105km round trip, and sometimes I take detours, so it could be up to 120 - 130 km.

- Drop bars
- fixed full length mudguards
- is 10 speed shimano compatible and must take power tap hub
- will take a pannier rack
- some level of comfort
- can be used for some training

what would you build and why. Im just looking for ideas at the moment, anything considered!

Jawgap

I bought a PX Uncle John for foul weather commuting - installed full length mudguards on it and changed out the PX wheelset for set of Fulcrum 5s. I've found it to be a nice balance between fast, comfortable and stable.

It takes racks for panniers which I don't use for commuting but have used for a bit of touring.

My planned next upgrade on it is either some long drop caliper brakes or disc brakes.

lennymc

thats a steel frameset isnt it Jawgap? How do you find it on comfort wise on the commute in?

edit - just checked - its an aluminium frame.

Bluefoam

lennymc wrote: »

I'm thinking of building a commuter that could be used year round for my commute.

- Drop bars
- fixed full length mudguards
- is 10 speed shimano compatible
- will take a pannier rack
- some level of comfort
- can be used for some training

what would you build and why. Im just looking for ideas at the moment, anything considered!

Bamboo Mudguards
Shimano Alfine 11 Gears
Mercian bike frame
Brooks saddle

TinyExplosions

Bluefoam wrote: »

Bamboo Mudguards
Shimano Alfine 11 Gears
Mercian bike frame
Brooks saddle

This.

OldBean

Older steel framed road bike, single speed, mudguards, panniers, bad paint job.

Unless I was doing serious Km's on your commute, I'd find it hard to stray from the ease of a single speed bike. Steel frame for comfort, mudguards to keep my arse dry and a bad paint job to keep the scobes away.

lennymc

cheers oldbean - If my commute was shorter I would use a singlespeed in a heartbeat, but my commute is about 105km round trip, and I generally use it as a training spin, so it needs to take my powertab hub, which is currently 10 spd. I am thinking steel would be nice. I like steel

@bluefoam - that sure does sound like a nice bike

daragh_

OldBean wrote: »

Unless I was doing serious Km's on your commute, I'd find it hard to stray from the ease of a single speed bike. Steel frame for comfort, mudguards to keep my arse dry and a bad paint job to keep the scobes away.

Was thinking about this for next winter - maybe an On-One Pompino. colm_gti had one which he used on club spins over the winter. SS is fine for my commutes but tbh I'm not sure if I would use it to train on.

Ribble Winter/Audax bike has been posted here before. Might suit me.

Crippens1

Consider building up an MTB frame. I've done this for commuting and put rigid forks on to save weight. In summer it's easy to switch to the suspension forks as the kids want to go rambling in the woods. Either forks, you get good comfort, good visibility and, if you have the budget, disc brakes.

Gasco

Am building up a Cannondale CAAD9 CX for my longish commute (60k round trip). Putting a rack on it and it has eyelets for guards. Plan is to use it for winter spins as well.

Not sure if it is the most suitable beast for commuting / winter training, but I really like the look of it - I believe that is what really counts.

ednwireland

7 speed



back wheels been replace for a touring one from spa cycles (carry the weight of shopping on the way home)

actually this would be nice as well

http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m2b0s143p2323

OldBean

lennymc wrote: »

cheers oldbean - If my commute was shorter I would use a singlespeed in a heartbeat, but my commute is about 105km round trip

Ah. Gears it is then!

Actually, a bit irrelevant to your cause, but for those looking at shorter commutes, I was doing some research/intending to build something using the Sturmey Archer 2 speed kickback hubs and they sound great (Just not the coaster brake version). Unfortunately my build has since turned into a 10 speed tourer. Which means I'll have to start looking at another frame soon...

Lumen

OldBean wrote: »

I was doing some research/intending to build something using the Sturmey Archer 2 speed kickback hubs and they sound great (Just not the coaster brake version).

This has been on my experimentation todo list for a while. If you do it I won't have to find the money. :pac:

colm_gti

Lenny, if you're able to fit panniers to your TCX just use that? All you need is a 10 speed RHS shifter and 10 speed chain to convert it to 10 speed, and use your powertap wheel.

I bought an older TCX recently to replace my pomp, converted it to 1x10, and will be using it for winter spins and cx racing. It has clearance for big tyres and mudguards, ideal for winter!

lennymc

colm_gti wrote: »

Lenny, if you're able to fit panniers to your TCX just use that? All you need is a 10 speed RHS shifter and 10 speed chain to convert it to 10 speed, and use your powertap wheel.

I fail to see how your answer would in any way facilitate me wanting to buy a new bike.

I did think of buying a tiagra 10 spd group (currently about 330 euros on merlin) for the cx bike, as some of the components are worn and could probably do with being replaced. Maybe Ill just do that.... but then id have to go taking mudguards and racks of the cx bike, and im just pure lazy and couldnt be doing that every weekend. Would drive me bananas!

mp31

Giant Defy... meets all your requirements.

BTW Are you commuting that distance every day?

rurs

I have my eye on the Revolution Country Explorer as a utility/winter trainer/tourer. Looks good value, although for your needs maybe not ideal, as it's a 9 speed+triple. Steel frame too, so on the heavy side. Plus, it's already built...

Surveyor11

My recently nicked Dolan Preffisio ticked a lot of boxes (40km round trip daily). Would replace it with something similar except with permanent mudguards (had race blades)

mistermatthew

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/FRGURE/guerciotti_record_frameset

funkyjebus

If you are looking to buy new, want some comfort and don't want to break the bank, perhaps the Ribble 525. Coming in at €842 with Tiagra 10sp and fulcrum 7's which should do the trick.

studiorat

Surveyor11 wrote: »

My recently nicked Dolan Preffisio ticked a lot of boxes (40km round trip daily). Would replace it with something similar except with permanent mudguards (had race blades)

Pretty good deal on the Preffisio frames on the Dolan Website at the moment.

Don don don....

doozerie

Some of these have certainly been covered already, but I'm just gonna be lazy and rattle off a list that springs to mind without checking if they've been listed:

Things that I'd require for a commute bike:
* Full length robust mudguards. I like SKS and would seek out models that had a reflector on the rear mudguard and a mudflap on the front. The mudguards should accommodate the widest of tyres that you plan to ever fit - that's stating the obvious but I found it easy to forget that when fitting mudguards to my MTB with slicks on, but remembered in time before I cut the stays to a length to suit only the slicks.
* Pannier rack. I have an old SKS one which is great, but I also like the Topeak that I have on another bike, which has side rails that allow a pannier to hang a little lower while leaving clearance for the full of the flat top of the rack to be used.
* Space on the handlebars for at least one decent light. I've found space limited on my bars on occasion.
* At little carbon as possible. This is partly because I lock my bike in a communal bike park at work and reckon people will not be very gentle with my bike as they try to get to their own, but also almost all of my (few) falls from a bike have been while commuting and I want to minimise the amount of stuff likely to break/shatter in a fall.
* Robust wheels. I'm small and very light, so for me 32-hole wheels count as very robust. 36-hole wheels would be better though. Basically I occasionally carry a silly amount of weight on the pannier and I want the wheels to handle it. The wheels should also be possible to true at the side of the road if necessary, and conventional spokes are more convenient there.
* Clearance for wide tyres. In particular I need a bike able to take spiked tyres when the weather turns icy. That has meant I could continue to commute by bike during some horrible weather during the last couple of winters. If I remember rightly, the 700C version of the spiked tyres I use are 35mm wide but it's their height that poses a problem for come frames with brake callipers - my wife's hybrid has cantilevers and just about takes spiked 35mm tyres, my mountain bike takes 1.75" spiked tyres comfortably.
* Lockable via my existing locks. I have one long U-lock, and one short U-lock. I typically like to lock my back wheel plus frame onto something solid with the long U-lock and then lock the front wheel to the frame with the short U-lock. However, my short U-lock is too short to wrap around the frame and wheel, so I end up having to wrestle with it so that the long U-lock goes through wheel, frame, and solid object, and it's a pain in the neck every time. A second long U-lock would sort that out but the good ones of those are heavy compared to my mid-weigh mid-strength short one.

Things that I'd like to have for a commute bike:
* Dynamo hub(s). I like the idea of never having to worry about forgetting lights or batteries.
* No V-brakes. They break my heart. Adjusting them initially is painful as they end up very close to the rim if you don't want lots of slack in the levers, and even a minor buckle can then be an unnecessarily big hassle. And as the brake pads start to wear you may have to adjust the angle of the brake shoes so eventually when you replace the pads you have to re-adjust the shoes again. By comparison I love the simplicity of my callipers, though I'd consider disk brakes too (I've never used them) or maybe even hydraulic cantilevers.
* Hub bearings that are robust but still relatively easy to service when they need replacing.
* Bottom bracket, or bearings, that last quite a while. I like the simplicity and robustness of the square taper!
* Gearing which is as simple as possible, which means no triple chainset for me.

Lumen

doozerie wrote: »

* Full length robust mudguards.
* Dynamo hub(s)

I would place these above all other considerations, but particularly a front dynamo light. Modern dynamo lights are the most excellent thing ever.

funkyjebus

Lumen wrote: »

I would place these above all other considerations, but particularly a front dynamo light. Modern dynamo lights are the most excellent thing ever.

lennymc

Thats a great list Doozerie, and Kind of what I would be hoping to end with. Currently Im using a mix of the CX bike and a carbon road bike for commuting. the CX is certainly more practical as a commuter and i may just end up with another CX bike (or a single speed cx for racing). therein lies my problem - the racing starts back in a couple of months and there is no way I would be pulling bits n pieces off the cx bike to race it, and then put them back on to commute on it. There is an On One pompino single speed for about 590 on planet-x, which would cover the cx requirement, and i could just stick with the tcx for commuting.

Surveyor11

studiorat wrote: »

Pretty good deal on the Preffisio frames on the Dolan Website at the moment.

Don don don....

Yeah seen that. I've got a pair of spare wheels and a seat clamp, so working out the cost of a rebuild from there!

colm_gti

Surveyor11 wrote: »

Yeah seen that. I've got a pair of spare wheels and a seat clamp, so working out the cost of a rebuild from there!

Hahaha, just bought seat clamp, must buy matching frameset

lennymc

so currently Im thinking convert the tcx to a full time commuter, add a dynamo hub, 10 speed shifter and pannier rack and im pretty much sorted and could fully justify buying a new CX bike. I was already half thinking (how do you half think) of a single speed cx bike, so maybe this is the best course of action? A built up on one pompino is coming in at around 600 euros, throw a set of tyres and some cx gearing on it and hey presto, sorted.

Seaneh

studiorat wrote: »

Pretty good deal on the Preffisio frames on the Dolan Website at the moment.

Don don don....

And the Ribble winter trainer, which is the exact same frame with a different paint job, is always good value too

lennymc

the ribble/dolan bikes are something that I would consider, but they wont take 32mm tyres, so that rules them out.

doozerie

lennymc wrote:

Thats a great list Doozerie, and Kind of what I would be hoping to end with. Currently Im using a mix of the CX bike and a carbon road bike for commuting. the CX is certainly more practical as a commuter and i may just end up with another CX bike (or a single speed cx for racing). therein lies my problem - the racing starts back in a couple of months and there is no way I would be pulling bits n pieces off the cx bike to race it, and then put them back on to commute on it. There is an On One pompino single speed for about 590 on planet-x, which would cover the cx requirement, and i could just stick with the tcx for commuting.

One of the moments of great cycling joy in my life was when I bought an MTB and was able to keep my road bike for weekend spins only. Life got so much easier when my road bike was always ready to go each weekend, without accruing the muck, wear and tear, and mudguards that commuting tends to inflict. Then I started riding off-road every weekend and life got complicated again with my MTB being the bike torn between the desirable traits of a commuter (mudguards, etc.) and the desirable traits of an off-road bike (absolutely no mudguards, etc.). Along came a new road bike into my life and tidied all that mess up nicely as my old road bike was relegated to commuter duties.

I'm not sure at what point I contracted "the bipolar" but for some time now I've been struggling to balance the demands of my lycra side ("my good bike is getting' awful mucky over the winter. I know, I need a different good bike for winter and my good good bike for summer. Yayyy! Hmm, what about a turbo trainer bike?…") with my utilitarian side ("it's nice to have a zippy bike for commuting but I also need something beefier that can tow a trailer. Two different bikes, yayyy! Oh look, folders..."). My wallet and house storage space struggle to cope.

When compiling the list in my previous I think what I was struggling in vain to describe is a light but robust, cheap but good quality, practical but fun, lowly geared as a triple without being a triple, easy to maintain but versatile, yoke of a thing, that'll hopefully go like the clappers but somehow also be able to fulfil the role of grunt/tractor bike as necessary. I neglected to include some requirements on the list, such as a kick stand, ability to take a trailer hitch, no-paint finish, and comfortable to ride.

I'm trying to deny reality, and it's a fight that I'm losing, the truth is that all of us actually need an army of commute bikes to mirror our army of "good" bikes. So there'll be the cargo bike for shopping commutes, the recumbent for fast commutes, the three-wheeler recumbent for icy fast commutes, the single speed for low maintenance commutes, etc. To try to combine the benefits of all of these bikes in one bike would be an abomination, a crime against bicycle design. Which is where the cyclo-cross bike comes in, of course, the Frankenstein's monster of the cycling world. I have to admit that I do actually want a cx'er. …oh the shame!

Lumen

I know this is heresy, but I honestly believe that a hydraulic disk braked, dynamo lit, drop bar race bike with full length mudguards would be almost perfect.

The only downside would be having to clean and lube the drivetrain. I really hate doing that.

Unfortunately the only solutions to that which don't involve servants are hub gears or singlespeed, both of which I've tried and hated.

lennymc

"An army of commute bikes"

Brilliant. Im gonna explain to my significant other that I need an army of bikes for commuting, but i will gladly make do with just the one.

lennymc

Lumen wrote: »

I know this is heresy, but I honestly believe that a hydraulic disk braked, dynamo lit, drop bar race bike with full length mudguards would be almost perfect.

The only downside would be having to clean and lube the drivetrain. I really hate doing that.

Unfortunately the only solutions to that which don't involve servants are hub gears or singlespeed, both of which I've tried and hated.

Are there any auto chain lube systems for bikes? I had one on the motorbike and it was brilliant

doozerie

Lumen wrote: »

I know this is heresy, but I honestly believe that a hydraulic disk braked, dynamo lit, drop bar race bike with full length mudguards would be almost perfect.

I'm inclined to agree, my only reservation being that I'd need the frame to take 35mm spiked tyres and I'm not sure how many road frames would accommodate that. I must look into it actually. The possibly permanent death of my MTB is putting me back into the market for a utilitarian/commute frame or bike.

Having said that, I got my single speed road bike back up and running this weekend necessitated by my MTB woes, and the last couple of days have been a reminder of how much I like a single speed for commuting. My commute is short though, which certainly helps. On the down side though, I'm also rediscovering how rubbish Shimano single speed freewheels are, I'm half expecting it to open up enroute and spill its bearings all over the road, and I'm half wondering whether I'd even notice the lack of them.

doozerie

lennymc wrote: »

Are there any auto chain lube systems for bikes? I had one on the motorbike and it was brilliant

I believe they exist, I have a memory of seeing one online a few years back but I can't find the website now. If I remember correctly you swapped out one of the jockey wheels for a tailored one that came with the kit, though I don't recall the details properly of where or how it regulated the drip. At the time I spoke with a motorbiker and he thought they were problematic with motorbikes though I'm not sure whether he actually ever used one himself, but it put me off the idea.

I'd worry though that the chain would just build up more and more muck on it over time and would need cleaning anyway. I guess that would depend on what kind of lube the system dripped onto it though.

Seaneh

Lenny, if you want a frame that will take 32c tyres and mudguards it might be worth looking at the likes of the Kona Honky Tonk or Surly Long Haul Trucker or Cross Check. Both about the same price, both nice looking and both capable of what you want.

I'd recommend the Specialized Tri-Cross too, takes up to 35mm tyres and full guards and has front and rear rack mounts.

lennymc

Some good suggestions there, however, the more I think about it the more my tcx cross makes sense for commuting. It will do everything that I need it to do, I can make modifications such as a dynamo hub and upgraxde to 10 spd over the next while. I commuted in today, it was as fast as the road bike, it has mudguards, and will take a pannier rack. It also has the cx brake levers on the top of the bars, which are great in and around traffic. I put the power meter on it with a 9 spd block (i can upgrade to 10 spd down the line), so thats fine. It does leave me needing another CX bike for racing tho. Ill be commuting over the next couple of days so I will give it a good workout.

kenmc

planet x kaffenback, disc brakes, rack, drop bars, full mudguards.
particularly in winter, disc brakes are a life saver:
- no rim wear on wheelset,
- predictable performance in rain
- no grey sludge buildup

kaffenback takes 35mm winter spike tyres easily

lennymc

unfortunately the powertap hub wont take a disk, so no disk brakes. Im not convinced on disk brakes for cx racing either, as im normally too slow to need brakes, so they will just add weight.

Seaneh

kenmc wrote: »

planet x kaffenback, disc brakes, rack, drop bars, full mudguards.
particularly in winter, disc brakes are a life saver:
- no rim wear on wheelset,
- predictable performance in rain
- no grey sludge buildup

kaffenback takes 35mm winter spike tyres easily

Kaffenback is all out of stock except for the small black version. From talking to Frank Campbell about it earlier in the year you're looking at third quarter 2013 before they have the new model in stock.

Which is a pity, because I want one :P

kenmc

lennymc wrote: »

unfortunately the powertap hub wont take a disk, so no disk brakes. Im not convinced on disk brakes for cx racing either, as im normally too slow to need brakes, so they will just add weight.

Kaffenback can take cantis too, so you could go disk up front where it's most effective, and canti on the back to go with your powertap.
besides - you said commuter - not cx racer!

doozerie

kenmc wrote: »

kaffenback takes 35mm winter spike tyres easily

Are you sure about that? I've had a look at the Planet X website and it says that the frame can take 32mm only - that could be an error though as I believe the Mk 2 frame has more clearance (for the discs if nothing else) and perhaps that text refers to the old frame.

From photos that I've seen of the Mk 2 there seems to be similar clearance to the Mk 1, height-wise, at the seat stays (Mk 1 is in the foreground) and this is comparable to clearance at the seat tube. I can't decide based on those photos whether a 35mm tyre would fit comfortably with mudguards (the tyre fitted in the photo is 28mm I believe). It's clearance for the tyre "height" that is my concern rather than width.

hypersonic

Could you live with spikes on the front only, should give better braking but i'm not sure if it would be a complete 'mare in the bends?

kenmc

doozerie wrote: »

Are you sure about that? I've had a look at the Planet X website and it says that the frame can take 32mm only - that could be an error though as I believe the Mk 2 frame has more clearance (for the discs if nothing else) and perhaps that text refers to the old frame.

From photos that I've seen of the Mk 2 there seems to be similar clearance to the Mk 1, height-wise, at the seat stays (Mk 1 is in the foreground) and this is comparable to clearance at the seat tube. I can't decide based on those photos whether a 35mm tyre would fit comfortably with mudguards (the tyre fitted in the photo is 28mm I believe). It's clearance for the tyre "height" that is my concern rather than width.

Sorry i think mine are 32 actually, they're somewhere in the garage. Fitting the guards to the 32mm spikes was a little tricky but once I got it right it's fine.
Hardest bit was bending the LHS front guard mounting stay to go around the disc brake.

doozerie

@hypersonic, I'd need the spikes on the back too as the rear end of the bike would be unstable even on straights without them (assuming the snow and ice were on a par with recent years). I live on a bit of a hill too so I'd need the bite from the rear tyre to get up it and the stability getting down it.

I've put the question direct to Planet X themselves and I'll post back if/when they reply in case anyone else is interested. It's otherwise a very interesting frame option, and for decent price too.

Lumen

doozerie wrote: »

I'll post back...in case anyone else is interested

You've never cared about this before. :pac:

doozerie

Lumen wrote: »

You've never cared about this before. :pac:

<Irish mammy>Oh I care! A little part of me dies whenever I see an untidy off-topic post, with misplaced apostrophes and broken logic and everything. I feel it's my duty to add a certain, er, glamour to the place with whatever dribbles out of my mind at times. Not that I'm looking for thanks. No, no, I'm happy spending my life selflessly serving others. But a bit of recognition wouldn't go amiss. *sob* I'll be hoovering my profile if anyone is looking for me. *sniff*</Irish mammy>

kenmc

I went googling in my email for the order for the tyres:

2 Schwalbe Marathon Winter Touring Wired 34,01 EUR 68,02 EUR
Tire 2013 - Reflex
Dimension: 35-622 (28 x 1.35)

they are therefore 35mm...

doozerie

So my MTB is dead, the manufacturer apparently believes that a fatuous excuse for not repairing the break in it ("You used it to tow a trailer? Ah heyor, an MTB is a delicate instrument, your warranty is now void. Have a nice day!") is a perfectly reasonable response. They believe that offering a 20% discount off a replacement frame, or complete bike, of the same brand is a generous compromise. Well thank you Kona, but your products no longer endear themselves to me, and your prices suck too.

So I've been looking around at options, with some of the stuff discussed in this thread in mind. The most interesting options I've encountered have been the following, and these may be of interest to Lenny/others too:

* The Planet X Kaffenbach 2 - steel frame and fork, (shared) eyelets for mudguards and rack, Sram Rival groupset (mostly), Avid BB7 disc brakes, 160mm rotors, €1007 on pre-order, 11.32kg. Reasonable spec, if you like Sram (I've never tried it), and a good price. It may fail to meet my need to accommodate 35mm spiked tyres with mudguards though - I rang the Irish branch to check, they checked with the guys in the UK, and the official line is that they won't stand over this combination. Apparently one of the mechanics says it'll probably work, but that's very unofficial so I'd be on my own if it didn't. So very close to what I want but with that nagging doubt about tyre clearance.

* The Rose Pro DX Cross 2000 - aluminium frame and carbon fork, eyelets for mudguards and rack, Shimano 105 groupset (mostly), Avid BB7 disc brakes, 160mm rotors, €1295 plus delivery, 9.2kg. Decent spec, reasonable price, lighter weight for those looking for that, and as my wife's Rose road bike has worked out well I'd be optimistic about the frameset quality of this one too. I e-mailed them a query about tyre clearance very late one night, and I received a cheerful reply very early the next morning - no problem with 35mm spiked tyres and mudguards apparently, they'd even fit them for me if I wanted. I've had very good experiences shopping with Rose, such excellent customer service is no surprise.

The Rose looks very appealing despite the extra cost, but I couldn't resist window shopping further and noticed this:

* The Rose Pro DX Cross Alfine Di2 Randonneur - same frameset as above, Shimano Alfine Di2 (wired electronic) 11-speed hub, Shimano dynamo front hub, Shimano CX-75 disc brakes, 160mm rotors, lights, mudguards, Tubus rear rack, €2349 plus delivery, 11.6kg. Despite the unappealing mudguards (slimline, look like they wouldn't give great protection), this bike meets many/all of my basic requirements and quite a few of my fantasy shopping list options too. Lot of money for a commute/workhorse bike though. But... we wants it!

Anyone have any experience of the Alfine geared hub, electronic or otherwise? It's very appealing from the point of view of minimal maintenance but if it's not as reliable as the marketing blurb claims then that would put me right off.

mp31

lennymc wrote: »

- is 10 speed shimano compatible and must take power tap hub

Two (potentially silly so please excuse my ignorance) questions:
1. Why do you want a power tap hub for commuting?
2. Are you doing this distance every day?