Brumbies vs Lions, Match Thread

irishbucsfan

preddy wrote: »

Anyone else have a feeling Bowe might make Saturday if no North?

No, pretty sure Bowe ruled himself out today

trouttrout

If today showed us one thing it's that Tipuric/Heaslip/SOB won't work as a unit. Need a Lydiate or Warburton in there, especially if Jones starts at 3

awec

HigginsJ wrote: »

What I expect test team to be

1. Vunipola
2. Hibbard
3. Jones
4. AWJ
5. POC
6. Croft
7. Warburton
8. Heaslip
9. Phillips
10. Sexton
11. Halfpenny (Doubt North be fit)
12. Davies
13. BOD
14. Maitland (i'd have him no-where neat test team, Zebo is much better)
15. Kearney

Bench
2 props
Tom Youngs
Parling
SOB
Murray
Farrell
Zebo

There is no way I would start Halfpenny on the wing. Halfpenny has excelled at full back, he is absolutely nailed on to start at 15 for me.

Grandpa Hassan

awec wrote: »

There is no way I would start Halfpenny on the wing. Halfpenny has excelled at full back, he is absolutely nailed on to start at 15 for me.

Absolutely. Why would any coach in his right mind mess with one of the clear successess of this tour so far?

HigginsJ

awec wrote: »

There is no way I would start Halfpenny on the wing. Halfpenny has excelled at full back, he is absolutely nailed on to start at 15 for me.

If both are required, I think it would work better with Kearney at FB & 1/2P on the wing.

awec

HigginsJ wrote: »

If both are required, I think it would work better with Kearney at FB & 1/2P on the wing.

Don't think both are required. Halfpenny has nailed on the 15 position, he has been one of the best players of the tour so far.

Rob Kearney will bench at best IMO. His lack of versatility may not be as important as Halfpenny can always move to the wing late on in the game, but Halfpenny starts at full back for me without question.

.ak

Honestly wouldnt be surprised to see Halfpenny on the wing. If North and Bowe are out then the only established winger available is Cuthbert, and even he hasn't had an error free tour. So who else is a safe pair of hands? Maitland? I'm a fan but he's been caught out defensively. Hogg? No way. Zebo? Maybe, untested. I'd put Halfpenny on the wing with Cuthbert and move Kearney into FB.

We should be praying for either North or Bowe.

.ak

People seem to think that it's more important that Halfpenny starts at 15 than it is to make sure we have the strongest possible wings on the field. It won't matter who we have at 15 if our wings leak space.

.ak

For me, a back three of 11. Cuthbert, 14. Halfpenny, 15. Kearney is FAR more safe than 11. Cuthbert, 14. Maitland. 15. Halfpenny

.ak

Nothing against Maitland, but he's been a bit suspect defensively on tour.

awec

I have all crossable body parts crossed for George North.

trouttrout

North/Halfpenny/Zebo is a lovely balanced back three imo

First Up

matTNT wrote: »

Fixed. IMHO.

Croft will start.

.ak

trouttrout wrote: »

North/Halfpenny/Zebo is a lovely balanced back three imo

Yep. I reckon had Zebo started the tour he'd be on the test side. As it is, we haven't seen enough of him, and I can't see him gettin near the team if North is not injured.

First Up

.ak wrote: »

Yep. I reckon had Zebo started the tour he'd be on the test side. As it is, we haven't seen enough of him, and I can't see him gettin near the team if North is not injured.

I thought he injected pace and purpose today but that was such a dreadful three quarter line to start almost anyone would have shown up well.

matTNT

awec wrote: »

I have all crossable body parts crossed for George North.

I don't, that sounds bad but I hope Zebo takes his place, otherwise I fear we will be stuck with Cuthbert and a half fit North for the entire series, I hope Zebo has a cracker and a fully fit North returns for the second and third tests with Zebo and they're the wings that could win a tour.

Buer

matTNT wrote: »

I don't, that sounds bad but I hope Zebo takes his place, otherwise I fear we will be stuck with Cuthbert and a half fit North for the entire series, I hope Zebo has a cracker and a fully fit North returns for the second and third tests with Zebo and they're the wings that could win a tour.

I'd be fairly sure that, if fit which is looking likely, North and Bowe will take their places for the final two tests unless someone does something special this weekend. Bowe already indicated today that he'll be in full training starting next week.

Grimebox

That team was closer to the British and Irish Barbarians than the Lions

Gambas

First Up wrote: »

I thought he injected pace and purpose today but that was such a dreadful three quarter line to start almost anyone would have shown up well.

He didn't get many opportunities in the time he came on but botched one move by taking it into contact and getting swallowed up when he had men outside him. Like Murray I'm not sure that on balance he added to his stock today either.

trouttrout

Gambas wrote: »

He didn't get many opportunities in the time he came on but botched one move by taking it into contact and getting swallowed up when he had men outside him. Like Murray I'm not sure that on balance he added to his stock today either.

Going on the balance of play, both Zebo and Murray improved their prospects

Murray's delivery was top notch and got the Lions on the front foot for the first time in the game. Made one top notch clearing kick and made a good break too. His kick at the end was a bad decision and going without support probably wasn't wise but on the balance of play he did a lot more good than bad. Plus he has nothing to lose considering he's been unfairly ruled out of the 23 by virtually every pundit despite being the best performing nine on tour imo

Same for Zebo, didn't get much ball but made one half break. The situation where he took the contact he certainly didn't have men outside him, Brumbies just targeted that ruck (which Zebo spotted and extended his ball placement well as a result) but didn't turn it over in the end

shuffol

Speaks volumes IMO that the pundits team is essentially the one they would've gone with pre-tour but for injuries, they've aready made their minds up on a lot of players and are using dumb logic to try justify their selections. i.e. Faletau's workrate, Heaslip operates in wider channels.

JRant

The lineout shambles today was very costly in the end. Every time we started to build momentum it was literally thrown away with poor throw after poor throw.

The tight 5 were pretty poor at all aspects today. Richie Gray is like the ryanair of locks, 'hitting a ruck somewhere near where he should be'.

Thought the loosies had good games actually. Didn't get to see much of them with ball in hand but thats because they were hitting every ruck.

Felt for Youngs and Hogg as they had absolutely nothing outside them at all. 12 & 13 were very poor but considering they just got off a plane they're not really to blame.

The bench made a difference when they came on, which is one positive to take from this loss. The front-row changes and bringing Parling on really sped up the ball for the half backs. Murray was good in parts but his decision making is still suspect. He keeps making the same mistakes over and over again, especially when ball is quick and on the front foot. Still he's come on a fair amount in the past 12 months.

Gambas

shuffol wrote: »

Speaks volumes IMO that the pundits team is essentially the one they would've gone with pre-tour but for injuries, they've aready made their minds up on a lot of players and are using dumb logic to try justify their selections. i.e. Faletau's workrate, Heaslip operates in wider channels.

Kinda like Boards, eh?

Christy42

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Ref was French...

I even read that earlier, no idea why he transformed from French to South African in my head. Thanks for the correction.

I felt Kearney was ok but no where near his best. Under the high ball he was no more than alright. There were one or two instances I thought he was going to win a high ball he had no right to with one of his trademark leaps but it just didn't happen. The problems stemmed from the front but no one from the starting 15 really stepped up with a piece of magic that could of driven the lions on.

I guess just move on and keep the moral up in camp, especially for those who will be involved in tests.

Who was captain when Best went off?

Rightwing

Sky ratings:

15 Rob Kearney

The Ireland international was the pick of the back division as he proved he is back to full fitness. He consistently looked to get the Lions on the front foot, making 12 carries. Kearney also kicked well, chased hard and was solid in defence but lacked the support of others. 7
14 Christian Wade

It was a tough introduction for the England winger after flying in from Argentina. He had a couple of half-breaks and went looking for work but was exposed for the only try. He coughed up possession too easy. 5
13 Brad Barritt

Defensively the England centre was solid but he was completely anonymous in attack. That wasn't entirely his fault as the new arrival got hardly any ball to play with, however unlikely to see him involved in the Tests. 4
12 Billy Twelvetrees

Twelvetrees will be counting the bruises after he was thumped hard and driven back several times. He wasn't helped as the ball was so slow in reaching him and the fact he made 2m from nine carries sums up his night. 4
11 Shane Williams

There was no dream cameo for the former Wales winger, who was called into the squad for just this match. He started well enough but quickly faded as the Lions backs failed to gel. 5
10 Stuart Hogg

The Scotland full-back was brutally exposed in the No 10 jersey by the experienced Brumbies. At fault for the try, Hogg also kicked badly, was slow to distribute and ran far too much ball. There is a strong argument he paid the price for the failure to pick three fly-halves. 3
9 Ben Youngs

The England No 9 started lively enough but could do little to turn the tide behind a faltering pack. He desperately tried to boss the forwards but lacked that usual spark as the Lions struggled. 6
1 Ryan Grant

The Scotland prop had been mentioned as an outsider for the Test team but based on this performance he is nowhere near. The Lions set piece was a mess until the replacements arrived while he was then pinged for a needless flare up with Scott Sio. 4
2 Rory Best

The Ireland hooker's initial omission from the squad was seen as controversial - however on this performance perhaps the Lions management were right. His lineout throwing was woeful, the scrum stuttered and he made little ground with the ball in hand. 3
3 Matt Stevens

Another player who struggled to make an impact. The Lions scrum looked better when the front row was changed while he was virtually anonymous in the loose. Was a shock inclusion in the squad and it is easy to see why. 3
4 Ian Evans

Part of a disappointing performance from the Lions pack. He struggled to build a connection with Best at the lineout and lacked the work-rate of fellow second row Riche Gray in the loose, while Geoff Parling had more of an impact of the bench. 5
5 Richie Gray

Like Evans and Best he cannot escape criticism of a dreadful lineout dispay, however he did at least disrupt the Brumbies throw and snaffle two of their balls. He was also busy in defence, making seven tackles. 6
6 Sean O'Brien

It says a lot about the Ireland flanker that despite having his worst performance on the tour he was still one of the Lions' better players. He tackled hard and showed plenty of dog at the breakdown but failed to make an impression with the ball in hand. 6
7 Justin Tipuric

Arguably the pick of the Lions side, the Wales flanker seemed to be one few players up for the fight in the first half. He was the top tackler and managed to turn over the ball well. However he is unlikely to oust Sam Warburton from the Test team. 7
8 Toby Faletau

The Wales No 8 has been involved in a battle for a Test place with Jamie Heaslip and he did his cause no harm. He made 16 carries as he looked to get the tourists over the gainline. He also put in a good shift defensively as he grew into the game. 7

.ak

Hrmmm... SOB was the best forward I felt, but that's Sky for you. Tips was immense in the first quarter but went into his shell as soon as he realized the game was slipping. Faletau had a great final quarter and did well, I'd probably put him on equal points with SOB. So aside from Tips, who'd I'd give 6, and give his point to SOB, 7, it's pretty much bang on.

First Up

.ak wrote: »

Hrmmm... SOB was the best forward I felt, but that's Sky for you. Tips was immense in the first quarter but went into his shell as soon as he realized the game was slipping. Faletau had a great final quarter and did well, I'd probably put him on equal points with SOB. So aside from Tips, who'd I'd give 6, and give his point to SOB, 7, it's pretty much bang on.

Think I'd call it bang on as it is.

.ak

Really? Thought SOB was defo the better of the two. Tips defo went quiet, was guilty of lacking the intensity he's shown in previous games.

First Up

Christy42 wrote: »

I even read that earlier, no idea why he transformed from French to South African in my head. Thanks for the correction.

I felt Kearney was ok but no where near his best. Under the high ball he was no more than alright. There were one or two instances I thought he was going to win a high ball he had no right to with one of his trademark leaps but it just didn't happen. The problems stemmed from the front but no one from the starting 15 really stepped up with a piece of magic that could of driven the lions on.

I guess just move on and keep the moral up in camp, especially for those who will be involved in tests.

Who was captain when Best went off?

Not sure but Hibbard seemed to be making some calls.

Rightwing

First Up wrote: »

Think I'd call it bang on as it is.

I've been very impressed with sky's ratings throughout the tour.

trouttrout

Rightwing wrote: »

I've been very impressed with sky's ratings throughout the tour.

Well they certainly got SOB's and Tipurics wrong today

Tipuric had two good turnovers but his workrate wasn't in anyway as good as SOB's

Also, Richie Grey getting a six is a joke

shuffol

Did Tipuric even have a turnover, from what I remember he just picked up balls that were lost forward and the commentators credited him with steals, he looked to lack physicality to me. SOB disrupted one ruck and forced the ball out for someone else to snaffle and got a player pinged for holding on. He also sent Wade clear up the touchline with a lovely pop pass. Account must be taken for the fact that most of Faletau's good work came when the new front 5 came on.

Christy42

First Up wrote: »

Not sure but Hibbard seemed to be making some calls.

He made the calls to go for the scrums near the end but the commentator said that he didn't even have to consult with his captain which would suggest he wasn't the captain but it could have been a commentator error.

I felt Tupirick didn't seem completely up for it but he was the top tackler, was ever present at break downs and made a turnover or two. Don't remember him being pinged for a penalty at any stage either.

O Brien was definitely one of the best out of the initial 15 but I think he really needed to make a couple of yards going forward to match Tupiric. Given that he has had a very consistent tour it is sad that he won't be starting the first test but I can see why. I was surprised that he was never played at 8. I always thought of the 7 jersey as a battle between Tips and Warbs and while I am sure O' Brien would jump at the jersey given the chance I felt that he had more of a shot for the 6/8 jerseys giving him a bit more license to run with the ball rather than going into every breakdown at 7.

I think he could've beaten Heaslip to the 8 jersey

Taco Corp

is this match worth watching?

HigginsJ

Captain_Hindsight wrote: »

is this match worth watching?

Not particularly. It was tight and tense but mistake riddled

First Up

Captain_Hindsight wrote: »

is this match worth watching?

England v New Zealand in U20's more entertaining. Good win for Wales earlier over SA.

Klunk_NZ

Rightwing wrote: »

Sky ratings:

15 Rob Kearney

The Ireland international was the pick of the back division as he proved he is back to full fitness. He consistently looked to get the Lions on the front foot, making 12 carries. Kearney also kicked well, chased hard and was solid in defence but lacked the support of others. 7
14 Christian Wade

It was a tough introduction for the England winger after flying in from Argentina. He had a couple of half-breaks and went looking for work but was exposed for the only try. He coughed up possession too easy. 5
13 Brad Barritt

Defensively the England centre was solid but he was completely anonymous in attack. That wasn't entirely his fault as the new arrival got hardly any ball to play with, however unlikely to see him involved in the Tests. 4
12 Billy Twelvetrees

Twelvetrees will be counting the bruises after he was thumped hard and driven back several times. He wasn't helped as the ball was so slow in reaching him and the fact he made 2m from nine carries sums up his night. 4
11 Shane Williams

There was no dream cameo for the former Wales winger, who was called into the squad for just this match. He started well enough but quickly faded as the Lions backs failed to gel. 5
10 Stuart Hogg

The Scotland full-back was brutally exposed in the No 10 jersey by the experienced Brumbies. At fault for the try, Hogg also kicked badly, was slow to distribute and ran far too much ball. There is a strong argument he paid the price for the failure to pick three fly-halves. 3
9 Ben Youngs

The England No 9 started lively enough but could do little to turn the tide behind a faltering pack. He desperately tried to boss the forwards but lacked that usual spark as the Lions struggled. 6
1 Ryan Grant

The Scotland prop had been mentioned as an outsider for the Test team but based on this performance he is nowhere near. The Lions set piece was a mess until the replacements arrived while he was then pinged for a needless flare up with Scott Sio. 4
2 Rory Best

The Ireland hooker's initial omission from the squad was seen as controversial - however on this performance perhaps the Lions management were right. His lineout throwing was woeful, the scrum stuttered and he made little ground with the ball in hand. 3
3 Matt Stevens

Another player who struggled to make an impact. The Lions scrum looked better when the front row was changed while he was virtually anonymous in the loose. Was a shock inclusion in the squad and it is easy to see why. 3
4 Ian Evans

Part of a disappointing performance from the Lions pack. He struggled to build a connection with Best at the lineout and lacked the work-rate of fellow second row Riche Gray in the loose, while Geoff Parling had more of an impact of the bench. 5
5 Richie Gray

Like Evans and Best he cannot escape criticism of a dreadful lineout dispay, however he did at least disrupt the Brumbies throw and snaffle two of their balls. He was also busy in defence, making seven tackles. 6
6 Sean O'Brien

It says a lot about the Ireland flanker that despite having his worst performance on the tour he was still one of the Lions' better players. He tackled hard and showed plenty of dog at the breakdown but failed to make an impression with the ball in hand. 6
7 Justin Tipuric

Arguably the pick of the Lions side, the Wales flanker seemed to be one few players up for the fight in the first half. He was the top tackler and managed to turn over the ball well. However he is unlikely to oust Sam Warburton from the Test team. 7
8 Toby Faletau

The Wales No 8 has been involved in a battle for a Test place with Jamie Heaslip and he did his cause no harm. He made 16 carries as he looked to get the tourists over the gainline. He also put in a good shift defensively as he grew into the game. 7

There's too many 6's and 7's and even 5's from a team composed of four nations that just lost to an under strength Australian provincial side.

.ak

Klunk_NZ wrote: »

There's too many 6's and 7's and even 5's from a team composed of four nations that just lost to an under strength Australian provincial side.

Good point. However, let's play devil's advocate here, I assume players can be rated on merit of individual performances. For example, I think SOB had a great game. A lot of people are banging on about him having a poor game on twitter and facebook, but in reality I think he did very well, but was made look poor in a team mostly comprised of players who were coming into this team only a few days before hand, or simply were out of form, ala Best and Gray.

I think Faletau and SOB had a good game, and both of them played the best they could around a pack that was melting and going backwards. Tipuric and Kearney were also solid.

Ardillaun

Should JW and (gulp) Delon Armitage be out there?

sydthebeat

Ardillaun wrote: »

Should JW and (gulp) Delon Armitage be out there?

JWs having surgery


and no. just no.....

Buer

Ardillaun wrote: »

Should JW and (gulp) Delon Armitage be out there?

Well, JW just had surgery and is unavailable so he's out. If any other player had the versatility and talent DA possesses, the answer would be yes. But the fact is he's a PR disaster that has been involved in spats on Twitter, accused opposition fans of racism, given the finger and verbally abused opposition fans, been in multiple fights on the field and is one of the most disliked figures in rugby. I can't think of someone that would do more damage to squad morale.

jm08

.ak wrote: »

Good point. However, let's play devil's advocate here, I assume players can be rated on merit of individual performances. For example, I think SOB had a great game. A lot of people are banging on about him having a poor game on twitter and facebook, but in reality I think he did very well, but was made look poor in a team mostly comprised of players who were coming into this team only a few days before hand, or simply were out of form, ala Best and Gray.

I think Faletau and SOB had a good game, and both of them played the best they could around a pack that was melting and going backwards. Tipuric and Kearney were also solid.

A lot of the criticism of SOB is for the number of penalties he conceeded.

First Up

jm08 wrote: »

A lot of the criticism of SOB is for the number of penalties he conceeded.

Which is fair comment unfortunately. You could say he was trying too hard for the team but it cost them.

sydthebeat

jm08 wrote: »

A lot of the criticism of SOB is for the number of penalties he conceeded.

Two dodgy decisions.. one for not rolling when he had a player lying on his back..

Ardillaun

Buer wrote: »

If any other player had the versatility and talent DA possesses, the answer would be yes. But the fact is he's a PR disaster that has been involved in spats on Twitter, accused opposition fans of racism, given the finger and verbally abused opposition fans, been in multiple fights on the field and is one of the most disliked figures in rugby. I can't think of someone that would do more damage to squad morale.

Moment of weakness there. I've recovered now.

.ak

jm08 wrote: »

A lot of the criticism of SOB is for the number of penalties he conceeded.

How many did he give up? I count 2. One was an incorrect call from the ref. That's unfounded criticism.

jm08

.ak wrote: »

How many did he give up? I count 2. One was an incorrect call from the ref. That's unfounded criticism.

Lions Official stats has him down for 3 in the Brumbies game.

(Grant 2, Stevens 1, Faletau 1, Kearney 1, Murray 1).

http://www.lionsrugby.com/2013tour/match_centre_2013.php?section=playstatsaway&fixid=169133

thomond2006

Ardillaun wrote: »

Should JW and (gulp) Delon Armitage be out there?

I'm sure the ARU will pay for Delon's flights so that some Lions fans will 'convert'.

.ak

jm08 wrote: »

Lions Official stats has him down for 3 in the Brumbies game.

(Grant 2, Stevens 1, Faletau 1, Kearney 1, Murray 1).

http://www.lionsrugby.com/2013tour/match_centre_2013.php?section=playstatsaway&fixid=169133

Okay 3. He's a flanker, and probably the only player getting into the breakdown. It's not like he committed any stupid penalties like Grant's. Anyway one of them was a total wrong call from the ref, so I can't see them as being enough issue for the press to breath down his neck.

jm08

I guess people see what they want to see. For instance, Murray is getting a lot of criticism for attempting a break, but when you see the big hole in the defence, it wasn't a bad decision. Lions support was too slow though.