I've Joined a Cult

ryan_sherlock

Somehow I missed all this thread. I have not read through it all, but I have gone down this direction for about 9 months now. I was very aggressive towards LCHF for an athlete during the winter and it worked very very well. My FTP went up by about 5% (big increase for me) - I also noticed that it was a very anabolic diet - I could easily put on upper body muscle by doing a little body weight exercise (I stopped doing it - don't want any more muscle on my arms!)

As an example for folks who say you can't perform well on LCHF - this was performed on <50g of carbs the day before and a 3 egg omelette with bacon, butter, creme fraiche and almonds for breakfast. http://app.strava.com/activities/41114262

It took me months of adapting to be able to do something like that - it is a process...

Racing in Asia - being able to keep a good diet was extremely difficult - it wasn't good for me. I have to make adjustments to be able to deal with that in the future. There is only carbs there and little quality meats/fats.

Carbs are still a chunk of my diet mostly from rice, sweet potato, veg and fruit (only around training). I still use gels during races. If I was an ironman type athlete, I would probably go down a more full ketogenic route.

Food - as was mentioned before, the type of foods/meals I eat now are much much more tasty than what I did in the past. Butter tastes good. Tonight, a huge rib-eye will be going on the pan.

Here is an example of what I ate in February while training hard:

9am breakfast - omelette, bacon, creme, butter, tomatoes, coffee

10:30 - 15:30 big training, food from 2hrs in, mostly home made bars etc... I follow my body, not eat by schedule - sometimes I would eat little, sometimes lots.

15:30 rice + eggs + sardines + lots of salt - big meal

19:00 huge salad with a fatty cut steak, bowl of vegetables mixed with butter, glass of wine

21:00 some nuts/olives/salami/meat cuts

I have been vegan, vegetarian, pesciterian, high carb, high protein, went down almost all different types of diets for significant lengths of time. What I'm doing now has me feeling the best I ever have been. I weigh about the same (maybe a tiny bit more), I'm about the same leanness - but my energy levels post training as just gone through the roof - I used to be trashed every afternoon. Sometimes I still am, but much much less.

Wishbone Ash

ryan_sherlock wrote: »

...What I'm doing now has me feeling the best I ever have been....

So the rest of us can expect even more Strava humiliation!

Zyzz

ryan_sherlock wrote: »

but my energy levels post training as just gone through the roof.

If your strava account stops working or goes missing..






..it wasnt me :pac:

Chips Lovell

Zyzz wrote: »

If your strava account stops working or goes missing..






..it wasnt me :pac:

ryan_sherlock

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

So the rest of us can expect even more Strava humiliation!

Well, I actually mean more off the bike. Chronic endurance (what I do), probably isn't the best thing for long term health - I think the higher fat, more paleo diet supports my body a lot better than the other things I did before. Junk food has not been a regular part of my diet for many many years, so when I was vegan etc... it was always the best, most unprocessed foods I could find.

Zyzz

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

AstraMonti

5th day in this madness. I am dying not to eat any sugars. I am craving all kind of junk food, mainly jelly beans and cheesy puffs, which I don't usually eat. Maybe it wasn't my most brilliant idea to start this just before I go off to holidays.

I am struggling with breakfast, I am having only eggs and bacon so far. Everyone around thinks I 've gone full retard.

Scuba_Scoper

Try omlettes made with bacon and loads of spinach, onions, peppers chilli.

or avocados and smoked salmon

or a smoothie made with coconut milk, berries, banana and ice.
all the delicious fats keep you full for longer.

AstraMonti

Made some oopsie bread and as you could expect it feels or tastes nothing like bread, it's more like a soufflé. It's not bad tasting though. Last night I had to eat some sugar, so I stuffed my face into slices of watermelon. It could have been worse.

petethedrummer

ryan_sherlock wrote: »

I also noticed that it was a very anabolic diet

Have you read or listened to Doug McGuff? He's a proponent of slow high intensity weight training. He makes a big issue about striking a balance between the anabolic and catabolic state. I don't want to get into an argument over his training methods but he does raise some very interesting points in relation to exercise and health.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQra-ME7vIo

I think a lot of people are over training with a view to keeping a continuous calorie deficit for weight maintenance or doing too many miles in the mistaken belief that more training will automatically get you fitter. For the average Joe I think weight control and fitness need to be thought of as 2 entirely separate issues. You control how much you weigh by the type of food you eat and not by calories burned. And control fitness by doing sufficiently sparse but hard training allowing for a lot of recovery time in between.

ryan_sherlock wrote: »

Chronic endurance (what I do), probably isn't the best thing for long term health

I'm starting to believe all endurance exercise is more bad than good. I live on the marathon and mini-marathon route and once the elite pass it doesn't look like most of the participants are engaged in a healthy activity.

I suppose with cycling you don't have the impact injuries to worry about which is a positive.

petethedrummer

Excuse the "be all you can be" nature of this conference but from this point on McGuff explains what is going on in your cells and why a paleo diet and high intensity interval training may be a good idea.

http://youtu.be/2PdJFbjWHEU?t=1h2m38s

I'm not gonna say it's correct, but it is interesting.

elhorse

I'm absolutely intrigued by the whole low carb/high fat and protein diet, and have been looking into it for a while. I've cut out grains and a lot of other carbohydrates almost completely. Just one point I was hoping some of you guys might be able to help with though - what amount of carbohydrates do you take in after training (e.g. weights or sprint sessions)?

petethedrummer

elhorse wrote: »

what amount of carbohydrates do you take in after training (e.g. weights or sprint sessions)?

The only time I get an urge for carbs is during a race and after a long spin in the mountains. But I don't train every day or even every 2 days so I'm not looking for a quick recovery (if carbs actually help there) or a dose of sugar to pick me up. So I don't increase my low intake over and above what comes in the vegetables I eat.

I don't get any urge for carbs after short sprint sessions. I was in the gym last week doing some strength exercises and didn't feel the need for a big dose of carbs after.

If you look at Ryan_Sherlock's post above, he details what he eats on a typical hard training day. Ryan is an elite athlete placing very heavy demands on his body, so bear that in mind.

petethedrummer

Joe Friel is a member.

http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2013/08/aging-my-race-weight.html

Have we reached tipping point yet?

niceonetom

petethedrummer wrote: »

Joe Friel is a member.

http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2013/08/aging-my-race-weight.html

Have we reached tipping point yet?

No.

ROK ON

BBC late last night repeated The Men That Made Us Fat.

Fascinating take on the evolution of modern day obesity and the supression of scientific data regarding sugar and processed carbs (particulalrly fructose).

What was revealing was the interview with the former executive from Coca Cola. He explained why they shifted from sugar to corn based frutocse. Done for cost reasonas in the 1970s due to the spiralling cost of sugar at the time.

Since then hwever the quantities of fructose used in soft drinks has allegedly increased by three times despite fructose being sweeter than sugar to start with. The implication being that the big global beverages companies have realised that the sweeter the drink the more addictive it is and the quicker that it flies off the shelves.

What was hilarious was the growth in obesity in tandem with calorie watching lite/lo cal foods.

On again next Thursday night.

niceonetom

And this is the cover of the current National Geographic:



So there might be some sort of awakening to how wrong we've been getting things.

Then again, don't cultists often feel that while they are the vanguard of some new, profound, and still marginally believed truth, that truth is so wonderful that it is always about to become universally accepted?

petethedrummer

The problem with that cover is a lot of people will remember this from 1984 and not believe the new reality.

petethedrummer

petethedrummer

niceonetom wrote: »

the vanguard of some new, profound, and still marginally believed truth, that truth is so wonderful that it is always about to become universally accepted?

New?? William Banting was trying to tell the world in 1864.

http://www.thefitblog.net/ebooks/LetterOnCorpulence/LetteronCorpulence.pdf


What's another 149 years?

petethedrummer

ROK ON wrote: »

Fascinating take on the evolution of modern day obesity and the supression of scientific data regarding sugar and processed carbs (particulalrly fructose)

I read that the Japanese invented high fructose corn syrup and promptly banned it. Someone should have told the US.

Ole Rodrigo

petethedrummer wrote: »

I read that the Japanese invented high fructose corn syrup and promptly banned it. Someone should have told the US.

For the US, it was the perfect way to deal with an over production of corn and rising costs of sugar beet.

Fructose is found in most fruits, some root vegetables and is not inherently bad. Neither is HFCS. Quantity and context is key.

What someone should have said it its not ok to drink gallon size portions of something that will only make you want to drink more. And that its not ok to sell such a product without a proper health warning.

AstraMonti

So starting this just before holidays wasn't such a bad idea. I ve been very strict with carbs and almost no sugar, although I had one morning loukoumades as I couldn't resist. My diet mainly is eggs, pork, beef, fish, prawns, tons of grilled octopus, olives, cheese, nuts and fried vegs. I am a bit worried on the amount of bacon I consume. I don't have scales so I am not sure where I stand weight wise, but I do eat like a filthy pig.
It's very surprising for me to have completely kill the urges for sugar, I don't need nor do I want to eat any sweets after lunch or dinner.

The worst part of it all though is the immediate and not so immediate family. They find it extremely hard to believe that fat and not eating any bread or potatoes actually works to my benefit and its slightly annoying to try to justify your decisions every time so I just ignore them for the time being.

petethedrummer

AstraMonti wrote: »

The worst part of it all though is the immediate and not so immediate family. They find it extremely hard to believe that fat and not eating any bread or potatoes actually works to my benefit and its slightly annoying to try to justify your decisions every time so I just ignore them for the time being.

So you've had "you'll give yourself a heart attack".

Next is if you lose a bit of weight people will start worrying that you are starving yourself or over exercising. Because it is utterly inconceivable to most people that you can lose weight without going hungry or flogging yourself with aerobic exercise. I cannot convince a work colleague of mine that I only exercise once or twice a week. My family were grand. My mother has gone this way as has my brother. I just left some books lying round and my mother read them in her own time. I just sent my brother some youtube links. My Dad took it all on board as he has the same fatigue issues as I had. Not really discussed it with my sister yet (she doesn't live in Ireland).

You could get some of the following books and tell them to read them or be quiet....
The Great Cholestorol Con by Malcolm Kendrick
Fat and Cholestorol are good for you by Uffe Ravnskow
Deep Nutrition by Cate Shanahan
Why we get Fat? by Gary Taubes

Oh and the other reaction is when you refuse a treat people will think you have some sort of iron will. Because when you are on a carb rich diet (and are prone to sweet tooth) it does take an iron will to turn down treats. I realise there are people on carb rich diets who don't have a sweet tooth.

AstraMonti

petethedrummer wrote: »

So you've had "you'll give yourself a heart attack".

Oh yes, you should have seen their faces when I told them that high cholesterol has almost nothing to do with heart diseases. Thanks for the books, I ll try to find them translated to greek and buy them.

The transformation on the sweet treats is amazing though and in such a short time. It was unspoken for me to not want/need sugar. And now it does nothing to me, I have no interest in eating chocolate, ice cream or any other form of sugar. Even if the whole diet is bollox just for cutting down sugar is a triumph.

j@utis

I'm eating chocolate right now. it's 100% cocoa, basically cocoa powder pressed into a block. absolutely delicious :P

ryan_sherlock

j@utis wrote: »

I'm eating chocolate right now. it's 100% cocoa, basically cocoa powder pressed into a block. absolutely delicious :P

Well - I have raw organic cocoa nibs in front of me

I probably eat 50g/day of 85+% high quality chocolate.

j@utis

I have a bag of cocoa nibs but these are too strong for me. I've bought a bag out of curiosity and I don't know what to do with it now...

petethedrummer

1 - Obtain Empty glass
2 - half fill with berries of your choice
3 - fill rest with greek yoghurt
4 - Grate high % cocoa Dark Chocolate over the top
5 - Consume with impunity.

I sometimes drizzle a bit of honey on top after a training spin.

ryan_sherlock

j@utis wrote: »

I have a bag of cocoa nibs but these are too strong for me. I've bought a bag out of curiosity and I don't know what to do with it now...

I'm about to order a 1kg bag... Great as topping for greek yogurt if you find them too strong. (They are, very very strong)

ford2600

"I am a bit worried on the amount of bacon I consume"

On this, I would have no concerns about a diet with regular meat intake, but despite how much I like bacon/pork I would limit intake of pig meat.
Unless your willing to pay for free range pork, or chicken/duck for that matter, irish grass fed beef and lamb are healtier options IMHO

AstraMonti

ford2600 wrote: »

irish grass fed beef and lamb are healtier options IMHO

I agree on that, it gets expensive though to have beef steak with eggs in the morning

Pete try to find honey from spruce and thyme, it's much darker in colour but its heaven.

Ole Rodrigo

ford2600 wrote: »

"I am a bit worried on the amount of bacon I consume"

On this, I would have no concerns about a diet with regular meat intake, but despite how much I like bacon/pork I would limit intake of pig meat.
Unless your willing to pay for free range pork, or chicken/duck for that matter, irish grass fed beef and lamb are healtier options IMHO

+1. I would add Duck too - Silver Hill Foods in Monaghan supply most of the Irish and UK market, they have high standards across the board. There is more variation in quality with bacon, chicken, sausage meat and farmed fish.

smacl

AstraMonti wrote: »

I agree on that, it gets expensive though to have beef steak with eggs in the morning

Myself and a friend bought and shared a whole cow a couple of years back from Lough Owel organic farm, the owner being the brother of a friend. Absolutely stunning meat, and worked out good value in that quantity. If you've got or can source a cheap chest freezer and love your meat, its an option I'd recommend. Never had steaks quite so good since.

ford2600

smacl wrote: »

Myself and a friend bought and shared a whole cow a couple of years back from Lough Owel organic farm, the owner being the brother of a friend. Absolutely stunning meat, and worked out good value in that quantity. If you've got or can source a cheap chest freezer and love your meat, its an option I'd recommend. Never had steaks quite so good since.

Buy mountain lamb of a neighbour every winter. Fantatsic meat.

Alyways had a chest frezzer of our own beef. Most of animal is cheaper cuts, which may put people of, but it shouldn't. Paul Flynn, Tannery restaurant has nearly always used cheaper cuts, shin beef, ribs etc.

Mince up some of cheaper cuts and have a nice burger for breakfast... yum yum!

MediaMan

petethedrummer wrote: »

So you've had "you'll give yourself a heart attack".

Next is if you lose a bit of weight people will start worrying that you are starving yourself or over exercising. Because it is utterly inconceivable to most people that you can lose weight without going hungry or flogging yourself with aerobic exercise. I cannot convince a work colleague of mine that I only exercise once or twice a week. My family were grand. My mother has gone this way as has my brother. I just left some books lying round and my mother read them in her own time. I just sent my brother some youtube links. My Dad took it all on board as he has the same fatigue issues as I had. Not really discussed it with my sister yet (she doesn't live in Ireland).

You could get some of the following books and tell them to read them or be quiet....
The Great Cholestorol Con by Malcolm Kendrick
Fat and Cholestorol are good for you by Uffe Ravnskow
Deep Nutrition by Cate Shanahan
Why we get Fat? by Gary Taubes

Oh and the other reaction is when you refuse a treat people will think you have some sort of iron will. Because when you are on a carb rich diet (and are prone to sweet tooth) it does take an iron will to turn down treats. I realise there are people on carb rich diets who don't have a sweet tooth.

I've been reading this thread with great interest. I have several friends who've gone to the HFLC dark side, and from reading of people's experiences on here and the fact that many people I respect have gone HFLC means I am looking at this seriously.

At the moment I am trying to follow a "healthy diet" in the classic sense of low fat and lots of veg. I am interested if people can point to any studies or other material on the effects of HFLC on cholesterol (or if that is even important) or on cardiac health in general.

I will definitely take a look at the books quoted above but am also interested in any comments or experiences people would have in this area.

Cheers.

petethedrummer

MediaMan wrote: »

At the moment I am trying to follow a "healthy diet" in the classic sense of low fat and lots of veg. I am interested if people can point to any studies or other material on the effects of HFLC on cholesterol (or if that is even important) or on cardiac health in general.

You are probably not going to find a study that comes out and says HFLC is a good idea, except maybe the one done by Stanford university I linked to earlier, which is by no means conclusive of anything. It's a very loose experiment and the lead researcher (a vegetarian) can't come to terms with the results. Atkins was the only one of the 4 diets to improve the lipid profile.

What you have to do is read the opinions of those who are skeptical of the current interpretation of the results and skeptical of the methods employed in the studies. Then decide who you believe.

Most nutritional and cholesterol studies are of a shockingly poor standard, but then the only way you could control all the variables would be to carry the trials out in a prison.

The Cochrane Institute did run a meta-analysis on all the reduced or modified fat diet studies in 2001.

http://www.bmj.com/content/322/7289/757
"What this study adds: Systematic review of trials of modified fat intake shows that reduction or modification of dietary fat intake results in reductions in cardiovascular events, but only in trials of at least two years' duration

There is little effect on total mortality

Despite decades of effort and many thousands of people randomised, there is still only limited and inconclusive evidence of the effects of modification of total, saturated, monounsaturated, or polyunsaturated fats on cardiovascular morbidity and mortality"

So what you gain on the swings, you lose on the roundabout. On average you still end up dead on roughly the same day.

Most of the leading skeptics take part in this film. And yes it is heavily biased, but only one believer took the offer to appear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry1Z8buyd8I

It also contains an alternative (though not entirely complete) explanation of what causes a heart attack.

petethedrummer

Dr Natasha Campbell-McBride on what causes a heart attack and stroke.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjsyApLtHW8

I love this woman. Especially when she starts talking about food.

j@utis

I like her rrrrrusian accent. I've listened to her views on vegan diet and I like it! because she fully agrees with me

MediaMan

Great stuff - thanks for the pointers. Plenty to study...

And now through the dubious powers of targeted advertising, I'm seeing an ad that says "5 signs you'll get Alzhimers" in the bottom corner of the page :eek:

Soarer

Quick question.

I've a ridiculously sweet tooth, but doing my best to stay off the chocolate. I do like my Coke Zero too. Is it ok to drink that since it doesn't have "sugar"? It's the only sweetie thing in my life!

petethedrummer

Soarer wrote: »

Quick question.

I've a ridiculously sweet tooth, but doing my best to stay off the chocolate. I do like my Coke Zero too. Is it ok to drink that since it doesn't have "sugar"? It's the only sweetie thing in my life!

You'll have to do some research and decide yourself.

petethedrummer

It's banned in Venezuela! If that means anything.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/jun/11/venezuela-coke-zero-hugo-chavez

j@utis

Soarer wrote: »

Quick question.

I've a ridiculously sweet tooth, ...

because you've made it that way. taste is acquired thing and it doesn't take that long to retrain your taste buds.

my favorite desert is a bowl finely grated carrots with a tablespoon of olive oil. so sweet! ripe bananas, mangoes, oranges, nectarines, basically most of the fruit are sickly sweet. I try to limit my fruit intake though - many fruits grown today are "made" too sweet through selection processes - they're like candy growing on trees. My favorite apple is bramley but even sour fruits can contain a lot of carbs.

I had some chocolate with my morning coffee today not much of anything else in it but cocoa divine!

Ole Rodrigo

From Mark Sissons guide to Fruit ( low to High sugar )

The Best Low-Carb Fruits (and the Worst)
This one’s not just for all you low-carbers! Here’s a quick guide to the best and worst fruits according to their sugar content and nutritional value. If you enjoy sweets and find yourself relying (or perhaps suffering) on Splenda and mockalate far too often, enjoy a sensible selection of fruit instead.

These are our favorite fruits:

Berries
Blueberries, strawberries, raspberries, blackberries, huckleberries, salmon berries, gooseberries – they’re all packed with antioxidants and vitamins. These little fiber bombs are the smartest, most nutritionally-dense fruit you can eat. Aim for a half-cup to one cup daily. Keep in mind that these fruits, especially strawberries and raspberries, are excellent on grilled meats and in salads, so go ahead and experiment! (Glycemic Index: generally low to mid-20′s)

Cherries
Cherries are similar to berries in terms of their antioxidant value. They have a bit higher natural sugar content, but they’re still very low-carb and are an excellent source of important fiber. Cherries are amazing with bacon, feta and greens; or try them smothered atop pork chops. Hungry yet? (GI: 22)

Apples and Pears
These northern fruits are related to the rose. They’re low in sugar and contain a respectable amount of fiber. While antioxidants aren’t exactly overflowing from your average Granny Smith, apples (and pears) are still a great way to satisfy a craving for sweetness without terrorizing your pancreas. (GI: 38

Grapefruit
Most citrus fruits are quite high in sugar, but grapefruits are not. In fact, their effect on blood sugar is less than apples and pears at only 25. Just don’t ruin a smart thing with a sprinkling of sugar on top! Grapefruit is excellent in salads, especially when paired with avocado slices.


Apricots and Peaches
With similar nutritional value as apples and pears, these stone fruits are a smart way to get a good dose of vitamin C and fiber. Avoid nectarines, which are much higher in sugar and are more akin to mangoes and papayas. (GI: 30s)

Figs

Oh, the forgotten fig. It seems to get lumped into the dates ‘n raisins category, but figs are just as low in sugar as strawberries, and are packed with fiber (all those tender, tiny seeds). Enjoy these fresh whenever they’re in season.

These fruits are high in sugar, so don’t make them a daily habit:
- Melons

Some low-carb guides will recommend melons, but you do have to be mindful of which ones you’re going for. Both cantaloupes and watermelons are very high in sugar (GI: 65, 100 respectively). We recommend making melons a rare treat.

- Mangoes and Papayas

Though not as sugary as pineapples, these fruits are best enjoyed infrequently. A better choice is the banana, which – although starchy and a 55 on the glycemic index – is a smarter energy source.

- Pineapples

Pineapple is the best source of bromelain, an enzyme that can help with joint health and inflammation. Some folks are intolerant or allergic (if you get irritated lip or mouth tissues after eating pineapple, this is why). Pineapple is very high in sugar, but it’s full of valuable nutrients in addition to bromelain, so enjoy it guilt-free from time to time.

Read more: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/best-and-worst-fruits/#ixzz2bwvqs6AM

duffyshuffle

Grapefruit went from being what old people eat in hotel buffets to my favourite fruit, its so tasty!

DirkVoodoo

Ok, so I'm lazy and prefer to hijack Pete's idea. But like most people I suppose I don't know where to start.

I found this: http://paleoonabudget.com/shopping-list/

As I figure if I just change what is in the fridge and on the shelves then I'm more likely to go the Paleo route rather than reading all the research, buying the books, etc.

Is that a good shopping list or are there any glaring omissions?

AstraMonti

Pete have you understood what you 've done? You made a whole forum to start properly reading in nutrition and taking his diet seriously. Or as seriously as slices of bacon fried on animal butter can be. Chapeau sir.

petethedrummer

AstraMonti wrote: »

Pete have you understood what you 've done? You made a whole forum to start properly reading in nutrition and taking his diet seriously. Or as seriously as slices of bacon fried on animal butter can be. Chapeau sir.

Sorry.:p

But again, I'm not telling anyone what to eat or what not to eat. It's all in the books.

AstraMonti

Haha no, it was a thanks in disguise. I was intrigued by the whole thing and have spent lots of hours studying out about facts, or assumed facts. It's borderline funny how much divided is the scientific community.