I've Joined a Cult

petethedrummer

smacl wrote: »

Beer is the bottom line for me in terms of weight loss, I know damn well whatever else I do, if I cut the beer I'll lose weight. If I don't, it will be a struggle. I planted a bunch of apple and pear trees some years back, and have been making my own cider for the last couple of years. Doesn't help lose any weight, but tastes so much better than anything you could buy. !

Again I'll repeat that I did not intend or need to lose weight but I do get horrendous hangovers from drinking beer. I find now that a big night out on the red wine is much easier to get over than going for a few quiet pints of beer. Obviously there are still consequences to a night out but I am able to get up before mid day after a night out now.

I was never someone who particularly enjoyed beer for the taste of it as a lot of people do. I don't get an urge to go for a couple of pints for pints sake or have a can in the house. In my last house we let a whole load of cans go out of date! So I don't miss it.

Caroline_ie

My turn to give my 2c.
Since going LCHF :

- I have no tummy problems at all. I was already gluten and wheat free, this totally fixed me.
- I have no food cravings in the middle of the day of after a meal. Sometimes I get hungry, but I don't crave the crap stuff.
- I actually sit down to eat and no longer rush on my plate at dinner time, sometimes even before it's done cooking.
- My body is still wondering what the hell is going on when I am trying to sprint, but that will pass.
- You do look weird in work when you put butter in your coffee ...

niceonetom

I found this presentation quite interesting. Plenty of graphs and it directly addresses some of the most common misconceptions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSeSTq-N4U4

Caroline_ie

niceonetom wrote: »

I found this presentation quite interesting. Plenty of graphs and it directly addresses some of the most common misconceptions.

Watching this video is actually what made me want to try LCHF.

MediaMan

To address the point of "does this thread belong here?", I would say it certainly does, or maybe even in the main cycling forum.

This is not just about diet, it is about the interaction between diet and cycling. I'm very interested in this because, although I believe I eat fairly healthily, when cycling long events I have been cramming in lots of carbs. This includes beforehand in the form of "carb loading", during events with sports drinks other sweet stuff, and afterwards with plenty carbs in a recovery drink or meal. This was based on the advice I got when I started - about 3 years ago.

At that time when I started cycling, I definitely needed to keep the carbs coming or I would completely run out of energy after an hour or so. After a couple of years, I found I needed to do this less, and then I got to thinking whether I needed to do it at all. Right now I am at the stage where I can cycle for up to 3 hours or so on a good breakfast with very little extra food. Any more than that and I need stuff on the bike - I usually try to stick to bananas and maybe one of those dried fruit bars.

But anyway, my point is that the accepted wisdom is that we need to stuff ourselves with sugar while cycling, so anything that challenges that is very interesting to me. And I won't find info on that over on H&F.

On the issue of who to believe - that is way more tricky. There is so much claim and counter-claim and accusation and counter-accusation out there that it is difficult to know what's what. I believe that if there was a clear, readily available answer out there, then it would have won through and everyone would be aware of it. I don't believe that all the big pharma, supplement and diet dollars in the world could keep that from happening. So the reality is that it is complex area and no-one has a monopoly on what is right.

What is most interesting to me is that some people have been able to adapt to a low-carb diet and still perform on the bike. That tells me there are options. With regards to what's best for me, I'm taking the figure-it-out-for-myself approach, armed with a healthy does of skepticism.

Well done Pete for starting this thread and to all who are contributing - it's the most interesting thread I've seen in quite a while.

niceonetom

This CyclingTips blog is worth a quick read for those of us interested in this diet not just as a route to general wellness but as a potential way to sucking less on the bike.


http://cyclingtips.com.au/2013/08/high-fat-low-carb-diets-good-for-you-and-your-cycling/

Ole Rodrigo

MediaMan wrote: »

To address the point of "does this thread belong here?", I would say it certainly does, or maybe even in the main cycling forum.
This is not just about diet, it is about the interaction between diet and cycling.

+ 1. It seems a lot of us engaged in leisure or amatuer cycling have questions about sugar in our diets, and hearing what those similar to ourselves have to say is beneficial and very interesting.

MediaMan wrote: »

What is most interesting to me is that some people have been able to adapt to a low-carb diet and still perform on the bike.

This is also very interesting. It seems that there is a limit to this though - there are many more vegan athletes at the top end than those on HFLC , so its interesting to see where the balance lies and and what point it becomes relevant to us individually.

ROK ON

I am watching the Great British Bake Off on BBC 2 and finding it very difficult not to put on my apron and bake and Angel Cake dripping with Passion fruit.

Is this what it feels like watching illicit p0rn.

j@utis

cooking shows? Posh Nosh

AstraMonti

Had a beer last night after a long time, I felt bloated like never before in my life all night.

Still have few days before I return to Ireland and my mother has been driving me crazy. She has told me about everyone she knows that died from heart attacks from cholesterol or from clogged arteries. I went and bought her a book in greek that explains everything about cholesterol, I think she will read it eventually. Interesting times ahead.

joker77

Want to chime in here with my 2 cents, from my own experiences with LCHF.

I didn't know that's what it was called until recently, but it's kind of where I've been veering more and more towards over the last few years. I used to have trouble with indigestion - and put it down to a wheat intolerance, so I started cutting out as much wheat as I could. That was the start of 2011 - I went from 83kgs to 72kgs over the course of the year. It was also my first year bike racing - I joined the cycling club over the winter of 2010/2011 and did the interclub league in 2011, so the weight loss would be a combination of the increase in intensive exercise and eating better. But I'd put in more down to what I was eating - I'd played football for years, hovering around the 81kgs mark, training regularly with the football team + cycling in/out work + going to the gym at lunchtime. I was football fit, different type of fitness to cycling.

The weight has continued to drop off, when I've been able to 'be good' and stay away from bad food choices. Lunch is the difficult meal of the day for me - I usually bring my own in to work, but if I don't I'm in trouble - working in the airport means it's 90%+ junk available to eat. But I think a LCHF lunch in general is difficult to find? Lunch choices revolve mainly around forms of bread.

I'm at 65kgs now, down from my heaviest of 88kgs. I'd tried for a while to bulk up in the gym, training and eating eating eating, but I've resigned myself to being a skinny fecker - it suits me better and I'm much happier having accepted my girly boy frame.

Last winter I started making my own energy bars for the bike, after chatting to niceonetom on a training spin - he kindly donated one of his for me to try, and I liked the idea of having something more natural than gels. Was never really a fan of the gels, always preferred bananas. The homemade bars are very easily done - mash up some dates + nuts, pinch of salt - press flat + leave to set - cut into shape and wrap - job done. I've done a few stage races this year eating just the homemade bars on the bike. During Rás Dhun na nGall I'd a single gel for the weekend - a caffeine one an hour before the finish up Glengesh to get a caffeine kick. I finished 16th on the stage and 20th on GC - not exactly a stellar result but not too bad either, considering I'm an A3 and there were some pretty handy A2 + Juniors there that weekend, not to mention the Olympic level triathlete! Haven't missed the gels one bit, and I was having a serious problem with a stitch in the early part of the season that has gone away the last while - a contributory factor to that was what I was eating before and during races.

I'm still very much reading up and learning about LCHF, it's been a natural progression for me of first cutting out wheat and eating less processed and more real food, then cutting back on the carbs.

My aim over the winter is to

• Keep away from the processed sugar as much as possible
• Kick my bad habit of eating bowls of cereal with milk late at night (they are complete junk I know, but I find it very difficult to resist. Any suggestions on a substitute?)
• Train on the bike with only water in the bottles, and banana + homemade energy bars to eat for the long spins
• Try to convert the other half and parents. Ties in with the title of the thread, I'm definitely displaying cultish behaviour there

Reading back on this post, bit meandering and I'm not really making any points, just some background - it's all anecdotal but it'll add to the other experiences.

Thanks for all the interesting reading material in this thread so far

petethedrummer

joker77 wrote: »

[*]Kick my bad habit of eating bowls of cereal with milk late at night (they are complete junk I know, but I find it very difficult to resist. Any suggestions on a substitute?)

I eat till I'm full in the evening and I rarely have a need to have something before bed.

If I still feel peckish I'll have more of the dinner I cooked. Or nuts. Or some yoghurt. I cooked up some of this last night

http://civilizedcavemancooking.com/grain-free-goodies/paleo-banana-bread/

Had to make the almond butter from scratch, which was easy enough. But it worked out lovely. I'll probably make a loaf or 2 per week from now on.

Soarer

If you're feeling peckish before bed, skull a pint of water. You won't want to be eating after that, and you'll go to bed "full".

victorcarrera

Another celebrity cult member here? Not strictly Paleo but seems very similar.

From the Independent today.
http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/health/revealed-the-diet-that-saved-novak-djokovic-29513197.html

The key to the diet Djokovic now follows is the absence of both gluten – which is present in most foods – and dairy products. He also cuts out as much sugar as possible. The world No 1’s diet is based on vegetables, beans, white meat, fish, fruit, nuts, seeds, chickpeas, lentils and healthy oils.

AstraMonti

That looks nothing like a high fat low carb diet

victorcarrera

AstraMonti wrote: »

That looks nothing like a high fat low carb diet

No but it would appear he has found his sweet spot with some extra carbs and protein (for an elite athlete and world champion) consuming many of the foodstuffs of a HFLC diet. There are lots of both food types there and he seems to have solved many health symptoms similar to the op of the thread.

petethedrummer

This is probably everything on sugar in 1 video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wZwdPkjeMM

AstraMonti

I am trying to understand the difference between Paleo and the LCHF diet in terms of fruits. Paleo is very much in favour of fruits while the LCHF diets are very much against them as they are considered natures' candies. Has anyone seen any articles regarding that?

Ole Rodrigo

AstraMonti wrote: »

I am trying to understand the difference between Paleo and the LCHF diet in terms of fruits. Paleo is very much in favour of fruits while the LCHF diets are very much against them as they are considered natures' candies. Has anyone seen any articles regarding that?

Mark Sissons articles are usually well balanced in that regard :

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/best-fruit-choices/#axzz2cmmvGAZp

petethedrummer

AstraMonti wrote: »

I am trying to understand the difference between Paleo and the LCHF diet in terms of fruits. Paleo is very much in favour of fruits while the LCHF diets are very much against them as they are considered natures' candies. Has anyone seen any articles regarding that?

As far as I can tell, fruit may be something you want to avoid if you are trying to lose weight or if it gives you blood sugar spikes. If it makes no difference to how you feel and you like it then why not eat it. It's definitely better in whole form than juiced.

I've read that fibre is important to keep things moving along, I've also read that fibre is only important if your gut isn't healthy. So again no conclusive answers from me!

ford2600

On this diet over two weeks now.

Only sugary intake is fruit, perhaps 5-6 serving/day. Veg consumption has gone up also.

Did a 100km cycle Wednesday which took in 4 climbs on Sean Kelly tour. 3hrs 50 on with no food. Felt good with no cravings.

Didn't have hr monitor, but other than 3 of the climbs, circa 55 mins, my heart rate would have been moderate, audax mode if you like.

No interest in losing weight, just want to rid myself of cravings. They have vanished.

Not sure if eating a plate of Nire mountain lamb chops with or without guilt is better. King of meats.

ROK ON

Feeling proud of myself. It has been at least 11 days since I last ate a bar of chocolate - I don't think I have any cravings for it.

I have felt very low on energy for past week - but not sure that is due to the way I eat. Just maybe caught a bug I think.
Because I felt so low yesterday I did go to the shop and I bought a homemade short read biscuit - thinking that would pick me up. I ate a corner and grew te rest in the bin.

Haven't weighed myself but I am a lot less bloated than usual.
Not following this religiously but more of an a la carte cultist.
Occasional bread - fresh as opposed to packaged (and no sugar in bread).
No pasta, spuds, White rice. Occasional small helping of brown rice.

Lots of beef, prawns, trout, eggs, bacon, spinach, lettuce, nut and cheese.

Natural yoghurt and berries. I still eat a lot of fruit despite the sugar content - I am not prepared to give that up.

When you begin to stop putting sugar in espresso you really begin to savour good coffee - a rarity in Ireland.

Ole Rodrigo

ROK ON wrote: »

Natural yoghurt and berries. I still eat a lot of fruit despite the sugar content - I am not prepared to give that up.

Sugar in fruit is not really comparable to sugar in processed food.

This guy is interesting :

http://www.outsideonline.com/adventure-travel/north-america/united-states/new-york/new-york-city/NYC-Bound-Hanging-With-the-Fruitarians.html?page=all

petethedrummer

That's lovely but I can't believe a life without meat is healthy. Though I'm sure some could endure it.

In other news: "The world is f**king insane".

https://medium.com/health-the-future/918b3d08f21f

smacl

ford2600 wrote: »

Not sure if eating a plate of Nire mountain lamb chops with or without guilt is better. King of meats.

Truly divine. Roasting a leg of lamb with chorizo, onions, rosemary and tomatoes is another favourite. Time to buy a whole lamb for the freezer methinks. Maybe just head up the the hills one evening and do a Gerry Ryan on it

petethedrummer

If I could boil my beliefs down to two vids/podcasts. It would be these.

Natasha Campbell-McBride on Food
http://youtu.be/cONYR7vAD-A

Doug McGuff on exercise.
http://www.philosophyinaction.com/archive/2012-12-05.html

ford2600

smacl wrote: »

Truly divine. Roasting a leg of lamb with chorizo, onions, rosemary and tomatoes is another favourite. Time to buy a whole lamb for the freezer methinks. Maybe just head up the the hills one evening and do a Gerry Ryan on it

Get in contact with local hill farmer and your sorted

AstraMonti

petethedrummer wrote: »

If I could boil my beliefs down to two vids/podcasts. It would be these.

Natasha Campbell-McBride on Food
http://youtu.be/cONYR7vAD-A

Brilliant. Are you up for organizing a group order for a farm? We need fields with cows, lambs, chickens and nuts. Sorted for life.

AstraMonti

More inconclusive stuff

http://chriskresser.com/is-starch-a-beneficial-nutrient-or-a-toxin

Lumen

AstraMonti wrote: »

More inconclusive stuff

http://chriskresser.com/is-starch-a-beneficial-nutrient-or-a-toxin

"Dr. Rosedale argues that evolution is optimized for fertility, not longevity, and that starch consumption decreases longevity"

For me, this (together with the realisation that all modern food is cultivated and nothing like a hunter-gatherer would eat) cuts to the heart of the argument around anything caveman/paleo. I know Pete isn't dieting to be more like a caveman, but it's really hard to attempt to understand the issues without bumping into the sort of "golden age" thinking that associates modernity with ill health.

In my "happy days" world we'd be screened for genetic predisposition to various diseases, tested for things like salt and glucose tolerance, and "prescribed" a matching diet and approved list of recreational chemicals based on proven science, but mainstream nutritional advice doesn't seem to have moved beyond 5-a-day-and-avoid-battorborgers.

My own experience of dealing with GPs in Ireland is that if you're not exhibiting immediately life-threatening symptoms you're wasting their time.

smacl

I was thinking of this thread today while wandering around Marlay park with my youngest, as she was busily explaining to me how they deep fry mars bars in Scotland, and while they're very delicious, if you eat more than one a month you'll die of diabetes shortly afterwards. Even one and a half in any given month was putting yourself at risk in her estimation, thus finishing a friends unfinished deep fried mars bar was something to be avoided.

Lumen wrote: »

In my "happy days" world we'd be screened for genetic predisposition to various diseases, tested for things like salt and glucose tolerance, and "prescribed" a matching diet and approved list of recreational chemicals based on proven science, but mainstream nutritional advice doesn't seem to have moved beyond 5-a-day-and-avoid-battorborgers.

Battorborgers have their place, notably after said recreational chemicals. Much like deep fried mars bars, there doubtless are attendant risks involved.

ROK ON

Lumen wrote: »

. . . but it's really hard to attempt to understand the issues without bumping into the sort of "golden age" thinking that associates modernity with ill health.


My own experience of dealing with GPs in Ireland is that if you're not exhibiting immediately life-threatening symptoms you're wasting their time.

I am not so sure that it is modernity that is associated with ill health but consumerism and marketing. My opinion is that a lot of us who have previously succummed to these have in some way become way too accustomed (or maybe even addicted) to eating crap.

Obviously with this type of thread there can be a nostalgic yearning for the good old days. Not so sure that they were that good - many were by all accounts malnourished and died from ill health. I guess the issue in the past was due to being undernourished. The issue now is being way over nourished. We as a society seem to have missed the happy medium - that is where your genetic testing would come in (but I am not so sure that I could live in such a society).

On the final point re GPs - couldnt agree more. Mostly a next to useless profession.

colm_gti

This thread has peaked my interest, going to give it a month on a trial basis to see if it's for me, starting tomorrow morning!

Bread is my kryptonite, that'll be the tough one to kick...

Soarer

Can anyone tell me what the best and most concise answer is to the "but what about cholesterol and your heart clogging up?" interrogation?

AstraMonti

Soarer wrote: »

Can anyone tell me what the best and most concise answer is to the "but what about cholesterol and your heart clogging up?" interrogation?

Google Uffe Ravnskov and study him, you ll get your answers.

Soarer

AstraMonti wrote: »

Google Uffe Ravnskov and study him, you ll get your answers.

Did that.

So basically cholesterol is good for you. Mad.

petethedrummer

I've found that boring people to death with long winded ramblings about food puts a stop to the questions.

petethedrummer

It's a good job everyone listened back in '86.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OcH9K_RvYk

colm_gti

2 days in and I haven't keeled over yet, that's gotta be a good sign, right?

Things I've noticed so far;

• I'm sleeping far better than I used to
• I'm farting a hell of a lot less than I used to
• My weight has already dropped below 80kgs for the first time in over 2 years (prior to this I had tried watching my diet carefully)
• I never feel hungry between meals
• I'm eating like a king

I've cut down slightly on my training load (volume and intensity) as I've called time on racing for this season, but I felt no adverse effects of the diet while out on the bike for an hour at zone 2 yesterday, in fact the data tells me I was putting out slightly more power than I usually would in HR zone 2 ride. I don't know whether this is due to the diet change, increased recovery time, or the fact that I've introduced some cross-training into my training plan, but my plan is to keep it up for the month of September and decide then if it's sustainable or not.

I'm still trying to get over the guilt of eating everything with butter, and putting cream in my coffee :rolleyes:

AstraMonti

colm_gti wrote: »

Things I've noticed so far;

• I'm sleeping far better than I used to
• I'm farting a hell of a lot less than I used to
• My weight has already dropped below 80kgs for the first time in over 2 years (prior to this I had tried watching my diet carefully)
• I never feel hungry between meals
• I'm eating like a king

All that in two days? wow!

One of my colleagues got a nasty chondrosarcoma, the doctor told him to go a no sugar and low carb diet to help slow down the cancer. Essentially he was saying that sugar feeds cancer in a way. I 've no idea if that's true or a myth.

colm_gti

AstraMonti wrote: »

All that in two days? wow!

One of my colleagues got a nasty chondrosarcoma, the doctor told him to go a no sugar and low carb diet to help slow down the cancer. Essentially he was saying that sugar feeds cancer in a way. I 've no idea if that's true or a myth.

I think rapid initial weight loss is a side effect of cutting carbs out though, right? Less water is retained in the body.

I do find I'm drinking a lot more, but whether that's to do with eating more rashers, or lack of water retention, I'm not sure.

ford2600

colm_gti wrote: »

2 days in and I haven't keeled over yet, that's gotta be a good sign, right?

Things I've noticed so far;

• I'm sleeping far better than I used to
• I'm farting a hell of a lot less than I used to
• My weight has already dropped below 80kgs for the first time in over 2 years (prior to this I had tried watching my diet carefully)
• I never feel hungry between meals
• I'm eating like a king

I've cut down slightly on my training load (volume and intensity) as I've called time on racing for this season, but I felt no adverse effects of the diet while out on the bike for an hour at zone 2 yesterday, in fact the data tells me I was putting out slightly more power than I usually would in HR zone 2 ride.

It's a fantatstic way of fuelling low intensity excercise. Did 190km on Sunday fuelled by a breakfast of
* 2 boiled eggs with butter on top
* A little cheese
* Handful of nuts
* Fruit with greek yoghurt.

Handful of nuts an olives after 100km. Once I don't push hard the munchies don't seem to come at all.
You would what to see the looks and hear the questions from the lads I was riding with as I didn't eat at food stops; high fat diet that will kill you etc etc while pumping themselves with gels and isotonic drinks on a sportive..
Interesting to see blood tests in another month or so.
Homemade chilli burgers this evening with Hegarthy's cheese and a salad. Boring diet...

petethedrummer

colm_gti wrote: »

I've cut down slightly on my training load (volume and intensity) as I've called time on racing for this season, but I felt no adverse effects of the diet while out on the bike for an hour at zone 2 yesterday, in fact the data tells me I was putting out slightly more power than I usually would in HR zone 2 ride. I don't know whether this is due to the diet change, increased recovery time, or the fact that I've introduced some cross-training into my training plan,

This is where I wonder about carb intake. I think it is absolutely necessary to consume a huge amount if you are doing a huge training load. But whether big training loads are necessary I'm not convinced of any more. I don't know whether either diet will lead you to an increased performance or whether ultimately you just end up at the same level. But from my own experience it seems to me that on LCHF I end up there with less stress on the body, a full belly, half a stone lighter and time to do other things with my evenings.


From Tom's link earlier.

They also found that athletes struggled to perform high intensity training intervals after a period of high fat, low carb eating. A review paper on the topic at the time concluded:

“
“Overall, there is evidence to suggest that endurance performance at best can only be maintained after long term adaptation to fat-rich diets when compared with carbohydrate-rich diets, and therefore long-term fat diet usage cannot be recommended as a tool to improve endurance performance”.
The issue of lowered carbohydrate availability in training re-surfaced in the mid-late 2000’s, this time looking at the effect of performing every second training session with low glycogen stores, over a period of 10 weeks. Again these studies found evidence of fat adaptation, but no difference in performance at the end of the training block.

They also noticed that athletes who undertook every second session carb-depleted actually performed less work in training, but interestingly performed just as well at the end of the training block.

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2013/08/high-fat-low-carb-diets-good-for-you-and-your-cycling/

In other news, physio says I should go cycling again. woop woop. Saturday spin ahoy. Spit-roasted pig at the top of Kippure.

petethedrummer

AstraMonti wrote: »

All that in two days? wow!

This may only suit a portion of people. The effects on me were pretty instant.

AstraMonti wrote: »

One of my colleagues got a nasty chondrosarcoma, the doctor told him to go a no sugar and low carb diet to help slow down the cancer. Essentially he was saying that sugar feeds cancer in a way. I 've no idea if that's true or a myth.

Scroll up to the video from 1986, I think there is a little cartoon on insulin feeding cancer cells in one of the 6 videos. Is it true? I dunno. Hard to know what is true. The cartoon says it is.

colm_gti

Pete, did you find you were drinking more water to quench your thirst when you first switched?

Conversely, I'd easily go through a full bottle of water in an hour bike ride of any intensity, but barely even drank half a bottle yesterday, just didn't feel thirsty...strange...

petethedrummer

colm_gti wrote: »

Pete, did you find you were drinking more water to quench your thirst when you first switched?

I don't remember specifically feeling more thirsty. I did feel a little light headed occasionally at first and read that drinking some salt water would sort this out. which it did. I don't drink salt water anymore, apart from a little before a long spin.

If anything out of the ordinary was happening or there was feeling I found odd, I would google for answers.

https://www.google.fr/search?q=very+thirsty+on+low+carb+diet&oq=very+thirst+on+&aqs=chrome.3.69i57j0l3j69i62l2.5028j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
https://www.google.fr/search?q=very+thirsty+on+low+carb+diet&oq=very+thirst+on+&aqs=chrome.3.69i57j0l3j69i62l2.5028j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fp=83e42e748f040135&q=very+thirsty+on+paleo


the observant among you will notice my work computer thinks I'm in France.

PeddlyFreddly

AstraMonti wrote: »

One of my colleagues got a nasty chondrosarcoma, the doctor told him to go a no sugar and low carb diet to help slow down the cancer. Essentially he was saying that sugar feeds cancer in a way. I 've no idea if that's true or a myth.

A Team from UCLA demonstrated last year that Glucose Deprivation Activates a Feedback Loop That Kills Cancer Cells

Loving this thread. Been following paleo to about 90% for just over a year now and find my energy levels much more even. I have lost a good chunk of body fat over that time. Racing was hard to get used to over the first couple of months but over time I adjusted the diet for racing. Starchy fruit/veg carbs suit me best and give that extra boost needed for races.

NamelessPhil

ford2600 wrote: »

Get in contact with local hill farmer and your sorted

I cycled past this place not too far from Ashbourne a couple of weeks back. I've never tried their produce, but they do sell lamb direct from the farm.

Long ago my dad would help his cousin file his accounts and get paid for his services with a lamb for the chest freezer.

j@utis

from the linkWhole box of lamb: A whole lamb is about 14-16 kg and will require about 2.5 drawers in a standard upright freezer and is €175.00.that would average about 12eur/kg, I don't know if that's good value or not...

NamelessPhil

j@utis wrote: »

from the linkWhole box of lamb: A whole lamb is about 14-16 kg and will require about 2.5 drawers in a standard upright freezer and is €175.00.that would average about 12eur/kg, I don't know if that's good value or not...

350gm boneless rump steaks from Aldi at €4.99/ €14.26 per kg. A rack of lamb from Superquinn comes in at around €20/€22 per kg. There are savings to be had.