Morals about illegal downloading

dinneenp

Hi,
There was a debate in NUIG a good while back about illegal downloading of music. I missed it but would have found it interesting.

• What morals do people have about it?
• Do you thing about the illegal side of it, what effects it has or artists and recording companies?
• Do you think the music industry overcharged (I hated stores that had ‘import’ sticker on and charged extra. Weren’t all CDs in Ireland imported?) so it’s okay to download now?
• Do you download everything or pay for smaller/local bands that haven’t made it yet? Is this okay?
• Do you download and buy the album later if you like it?
• etc.

Or is everybody reading and not replying because "I don't download illegally" (yeah, right).
Cheers,
Patrick.

karaokeman

I usually download to sample albums, and if I like them enough I will support the artist.

I can't speak for its effect on the industry because I haven't done enough research into it, but I would think there will always be a niche market for fans who want to have physical copies.

Cienciano

I do the same as karaokeman. Download for free to sample music, if something is good, I don't mind buying it. If an artist is loaded, I don't mind and if it's a cd I bought before, I don't mind. For instance, I downloaded about 5 david bowie albums illegally, he's not exactly stuck for cash.
Also downloaded all The Doors, The beatles, stone roses and Pink Floyd. Didn't mind doing it because I had bought all their albums, they're just back in my parents attic.

SilverScreen

I used to download just to sample albums but since Spotify arrived here I stopped doing that. If I download an album and I really liked it I will more than likely buy the CD or Vinyl, and maybe even attend a gig. If I didn't like it and felt like it's not worth my time or money I just deleted it, no harm done. I still buy as many CDs as I used to ten years ago.

People seem to have a lot of misconceptions that illegal downloading is a huge threat to the music industry and the quality of music being made in general. If it does have an impact it will only mean that greedy record label execs would have less money to spend on a brand new Mercedes every year. Taping from the radio, tape dubbing and CD burning didn't seem to impact the record industry whatsoever and they were rife back in their day. Even ten years ago it wasn't uncommon to pay €22 for a new album release compared to €13 or €12 nowadays, that just shows some of the barefaced greed record companies had. Record companies also have less distribution overhead these days as it costs far less to have an album available on iTunes or a streaming service than having to print out and distribute hundreds of thousands of CDs. So where they are losing money they are saving money elsewhere.

While I do still worry about independent labels folding I would however love to see Sony, Universal and Warners take a huge hit and crumble.

sbsquarepants

I personally don't think the industry suffers all that much, from what i do any way. I tend to download things that i wouldn't neccesarily have bought in the first case. It's a lot easier to just click on a magnet link to sample an album rather than go to a shop and physically hand over twenty quid.
Also the greed of the big labels kind of leads me to think they deserve it - even when the cost of actually pressing the cds and distributing them around the world was removed, ie when it became feasible to download an album ratherthan buy a physical copy, they just tried to keep those costs factored in as extra profit.
I don't loose much sleep over it to be quite honest!

eviltimeban

I used to buy CDs and download the occasional song, then it was the occasional album, then I did a bit of both, about 50/50. Then I started to (il)legally download (those dodgy Russian sites), then I downloaded exclusively.

Now I never download, I buy CDs. Sort of out of necessity, i changed to a car that had no ipod dock and only a CD player. I found I wasn't valuing the music that I downloaded, I had forgotten about things and not even listened to some. Having CDs made me listen to them more, and in full.

Like, recent albums like Sigur Ros, Boards Of Canada, Daft Punk; I could've got them online weeks before the release dates. but there was something nice about going into Tower on the Friday, or getting your Amazon package in the post; it made it more special.

Nowadays bands don't make much from CDs sales or even legitimate downloads; if anything a hit record will help them tour longer and sell merch, and that's how they make most of their money. That and film / TV spots.

SilverScreen

I don't see how mp3s devalue music in any way. If you really enjoy the music itself no matter what format it's in then it's invaluable. It's nice owning the physical product and everything, but I still find myself ripping them and listening to them in mp3 format far more than I actually play the CD itself, and it doesn't make the music feel any less valuable to me.

Also artists never made much from record sales or CD sales anyway in the past apart from a few select artists on major labels. Sonic Youth for example couldn't afford to go full-time until their seventh album Daydream Nation while bands like Black Flag were living on practically nothing in the early 80's.

VivaMessi

Nope not at all, Artists are worth a fortune. They make most of their money from concerts so meh! They'd all still be super rich even if most people downloaded their album.

SilverScreen

VivaMessi wrote: »

Nope not at all, Artists are worth a fortune. They make most of their money from concerts so meh! They'd all still be super rich even if most people downloaded their album.

Really? All artists are worth a fortune?

VivaMessi

SilverScreen wrote: »

Really? All artists are worth a fortune?

No not all of them, but the ones I listen too are so I don't feel bad about!

desertcircus

I worry about the impact of downloading on quality of music. It's never been easier to put an album together, but conversely it's never been harder to make a living from your music. I'd say the future will see a lot more once-off hits, as the barrier to having something "catch" drops quite far, but much fewer sustained careers and ambitious albums, as acts don't get the same leeway to learn to consistently produce high-quality songs or to spend time putting together something really big (Spiritualized's Ladies And Gentlemen We Are Floating In Space is an album I literally can't imagine anyone getting to make nowadays). So lots of Call Me Maybe, and very little OK Computer.

WealthyB

Knowing how little the artist actually sees from an album sale I don't feel bad about it at all.

The J Stands for Jay

When are we going to move on from mp3s? 20.year old technology that doesn't give great sound.

SilverScreen

McGaggs wrote: »

When are we going to move on from mp3s? 20.year old technology that doesn't give great sound.

There's nothing to stop you from using FLAC.

The J Stands for Jay

SilverScreen wrote: »

There's nothing to stop you from using FLAC.

Looked into it last week and downloaded the codecs, but haven't seen much availability of free legal downloads of FLAC format music.

maccored

bandcamp is one place for free legal downloads of FLAC formatted files.

maccored

WealthyB wrote: »

Knowing how little the artist actually sees from an album sale I don't feel bad about it at all.

they get even less though if you download their album illegally.

I think the future needs to be a mixture of free music from bands and fans supporting bands by buying designated purchasable music. Bands cant expect to get away with releasing 12 songs every few years and then touring the shít out of them (ala U2), but on the other hand, fans cant expect bands to survive if they have to spend money recording music that no-one pays for.

nlgbbbblth

SilverScreen wrote: »

While I do still worry about independent labels folding I would however love to see Sony, Universal and Warners take a huge hit and crumble.

Why?

All three are sitting on a substantial back catalogue that has not been fully tapped / mined. Without going into specifics there are numerous 7" edits and extended 12" versions that still have not been compiled or ever released on CD. While the reissues game has its bad points [mostly crimes in the name of remastering] I wouldn't like to see a situation where this stuff is stuck in limbo.

K.Flyer

I am of the opinion that due to the huge and growing amounts of illegal downloading and illegal file sharing, concert tickets will remain high, more music stores will close, new albums and re-issues will remain over priced.

hfallada

If you buy a song on Itunes apple immediately takes 70% of its revenue. Meaning the record company get 30 cent of that €1 song. Then you take away advertising, legal fees, accountants etc. The artist gets left with a few cents.

However smart musicians like dr. dre realised you make your money on merchandising and concerts. Selling records only make a tiny amount of an artists income anymore. You can done music legally but the artist gets jack

Sad Professor

Apple takes 30 percent, not 70 percent.

vibe666

every time I feel guilty about illegally downloading anything and taking money away from the artists I just watch a couple of episodes of mtv cribs and the feeling goes away almost immediately.

Lightbulb Sun

vibe666 wrote: »

every time I feel guilty about illegally downloading anything and taking money away from the artists I just watch a couple of episodes of mtv cribs and the feeling goes away almost immediately.

That's really only a tiny percentage of musicians. Do you only download Mariah Carey records? I use her as an example because she is one of the few successful enough to live that kind of lifestyle.

karaokeman

I never got the whole thing about paid downloading, if you are going to spend your hard-earned cash you may as well get a physical copy.

vibe666

Lightbulb Sun wrote: »

That's really only a tiny percentage of musicians. Do you only download Mariah Carey records? I use her as an example because she is one of the few successful enough to live that kind of lifestyle.

it was a feeble attempt at humor. I don't get much of a chance to listen to much music these days, but when I do, it's usually on the radio, spotify or Pandora etc.

having said that though, mtv cribs don't seem to have any trouble finding hundreds of artists to show off what they waste our hard earned cash on, so I'm pretty sure it's not just Mariah Carey.

lordgoat

I used to download and buy vinyl, now it's spotify and vinyl. My reason: convenience.

Herb Powell

Buy the albums if you like them. Help out your favourite artists if you like them so much, because fucck knows, it's NOT free to make music or tour, and a whole ton of work goes into performing.

I download very occasionally (if I can't find it elsewhere) and of course I go stream things on YouTube if I want to hear something specific. But when I do that, I don't fool myself trying to justify it as some crusade against "teh ev1l grEEdy muuuzik industrryyy". Why is it that people act like musicians don't deserve to be paid for their craft?

nlgbbbblth

Herb Powell wrote: »

Buy the albums if you like them. Help out your favourite artists if you like them so much, because fucck knows, it's NOT free to make music or tour, and a whole ton of work goes into performing.

I download very occasionally (if I can't find it elsewhere) and of course I go stream things on YouTube if I want to hear something specific. But when I do that, I don't fool myself trying to justify it as some crusade against "teh ev1l grEEdy muuuzik industrryyy". Why is it that people act like musicians don't deserve to be paid for their craft?

Well said.

For me it's not even an issue of morals.
MP3s are just crap compared to a record or a CD.