Dace

EireIceMan

Hi guys,
Wondering what the general opinion on Dace is.
As an invasive species, do they do much damage to native stocks. Im in a local club and the river is full of dace, and of decent size too, but its all iv ever caught on the river. Have yet to see a trout. You can see dace facing upstream as far across the river as you can see.

madred006

EireIceMan wrote: »

Hi guys,
Wondering what the general opinion on Dace is.
As an invasive species, do they do much damage to native stocks. Im in a local club and the river is full of dace, and of decent size too, but its all iv ever caught on the river. Have yet to see a trout. You can see dace facing upstream as far across the river as you can see.

We are in same position , think they are regarded as invasive species now not 100 percent sure but we just leave them out when we catch them .

EireIceMan

madred006 wrote: »

We are in same position , think they are regarded as invasive species now not 100 percent sure but we just leave them out when we catch them .

Yes they are an invasive species i believe. Well they are on some lists and not listed on others.
Is it regular enough to leave them out

stevenmu

EireIceMan wrote: »

As an invasive species, do they do much damage to native stocks.

Yeah, as far as I know they would be competitors with trout and salmon. They compete for the same food stuff, breeding grounds etc. And because they breed in larger numbers they do damage the trout/salmon stocks.

They're listed on Invasive Species Ireland

madred006

EireIceMan wrote: »

Yes they are an invasive species i believe. Well they are on some lists and not listed on others.
Is it regular enough to leave them out

As for it been regular I'm not sure but if I catch one it stays out , some nights could catch 10 -15 but IFI haven't the resources or the where with to deal with them.

pnpweirdo

Catch them and stick them in the freezer great pike bait.
I found a book that was 30 years old and it reported dace turning up in the river blackwater in cork. It was the only river to have them. The have travelled far in 30 years.

madred006

pnpweirdo wrote: »

Catch them and stick them in the freezer great pike bait.
I found a book that was 30 years old and it reported dace turning up in the river blackwater in cork. It was the only river to have them. The have travelled far in 30 years.

They are in the upper reaches of the barrow now and nothing been done about them , but we don't get tourists so we be ok I guess .

EireIceMan

madred006 wrote: »

They are in the upper reaches of the barrow now and nothing been done about them , but we don't get tourists so we be ok I guess .

Yea, I'm catching them on the barrow. You can see them the width of the river on a fine clear day.

Zzippy

madred006 wrote: »

They are in the upper reaches of the barrow now and nothing been done about them , but we don't get tourists so we be ok I guess .

What do you expect to be done about them? There are some species, like dace, zebra mussel, that are so prolific that nothing can be done about them without seriously impacting on native species. The only way to get rid of dace from the Barrow would be to poison the river with rotenone, which kills all fish. Is that what you would like to see done?

vermin99

I agree there completely overrunning the barrow!was fishing for shad a few weeks ago and a baliff came over for a chat....I asked him what about all the dace and he said there getting to it.......when I said how he said there getting a grant for electrofishing!like a big electric stick that's shocks the fish and they float and they pick them upbut it causes no lasting damage........I kill every dace i catch.......the trout numbers are gone well done cause of them

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

vermin99 wrote: »

I agree there completely overrunning the barrow!was fishing for shad a few weeks ago and a baliff came over for a chat....I asked him what about all the dace and he said there getting to it.......when I said how he said there getting a grant for electrofishing! like a big electric stick that's shocks the fish and they float and they pick them upbut it causes no lasting damage........I kill every dace i catch.......the trout numbers are gone well done cause of them

electrofishing will result in some dace being caught allright, but there is no solution to this problem. The dace are firmly established in the Barrow, its literally a impossible task to remove them. Even trying to control their numbers in my opinion is a waste of money. If you remove all the dace in a 2-3 mile stretch of river (which is pretty much impossible), in a week or 2, fish from upstream and downstream will wonder into that stretch.

correct me if im wrong, In the UK, don't they stock a lot of the rivers with brown trout from fish hatcheries? If you want to increase trout numbers, this is probably a better option.

vermin99

Sonny Fat Cellist wrote: »

electrofishing will result in some dace being caught allright, but there is no solution to this problem. The dace are firmly established in the Barrow, its literally a impossible task to remove them. Even trying to control their numbers in my opinion is a waste of money. If you remove all the dace in a 2-3 mile stretch of river (which is pretty much impossible), in a week or 2, fish from upstream and downstream will wonder into that stretch.

correct me if im wrong, In the UK, don't they stock a lot of the rivers with brown trout from fish hatcheries? If you want to increase trout numbers, this is probably a better option.

I think a mixture of the two would be good......clear out a large enough area and let trout establish themselves....Like I'm only a young lad and I'd say I catch 15 dace for every trout........so I think if anglers kill ALL dace caught it would go a long way?

uch

Dace are established in this country for over 100 years, so as zZippy & frank say, there's not much can be done about them now, enjoy catching them is my workaround

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

vermin99 wrote: »

I think a mixture of the two would be good......clear out a large enough area and let trout establish themselves....Like I'm only a young lad and I'd say I catch 15 dace for every trout........so I think if anglers kill ALL dace caught it would go a long way?

honestly, I dont think killing any dace is the answer. If my magic, all the dace were removed, the real winner would probably be the roach, and not the trout.

Dace are listed as a coarse species by IFI, so if you take more than 4 fish, you can be fined 150 euro.

rsheehan

There is an interesting report on Dace from IFI that was done by the old Central board. Middle of the page under research papers. Well worth a look. http://www.fisheriesireland.ie/Research/invasive-species.html

vermin99

Sonny Fat Cellist wrote: »

honestly, I dont think killing any dace is the answer. If my magic, all the dace were removed, the real winner would probably be the roach, and not the trout.

Dace are listed as a coarse species by IFI, so if you take more than 4 fish, you can be fined 150 euro.

They are also listed as a invasive species though

madred006

Zzippy wrote: »

What do you expect to be done about them? There are some species, like dace, zebra mussel, that are so prolific that nothing can be done about them without seriously impacting on native species. The only way to get rid of dace from the Barrow would be to poison the river with rotenone, which kills all fish. Is that what you would like to see done?

Why would I like to see any river poisoned ? I merely said nothing was been done about the problem and we leave them out of river when we catch them .Take the chip shop off your shoulder and chill ,.

uch

rsheehan wrote: »

There is an interesting report on Dace from IFI that was done by the old Central board. Middle of the page under research papers. Well worth a look. http://www.fisheriesireland.ie/Research/invasive-species.html

Very interesting reading in that piece alright, Done by Joe Caffrey so I'd take it as bible

uch

madred006 wrote: »

Why would I like to see any river poisoned ? I merely said nothing was been done about the problem and we leave them out of river when we catch them ,.

I'd say this is most of the problem with the trout fishing in the Barrow aswell, not getting at you, but a lot of people who fish (not necessarily Anglers) never return fish to fight another day.

madred006

uch wrote: »

I'd say this is most of the problem with the trout fishing in the Barrow aswell, not getting at you, but a lot of people who fish (not necessarily Anglers) never return fish to fight another day.

I never take trout out of river but have seen lads bagging up despite size and bag limits but when it's not policed how do you combat such instances some wont even join local clubs ,that's another days work -:).

uch

madred006 wrote: »

I never take trout out of river but have seen lads bagging up despite size and bag limits but when it's not policed how do you combat such instances some wont even join local clubs ,that's another days work -:).

The same way the lads in Edenderry do, the club members keep an eye on their stretch, and police it themselves

madred006

uch wrote: »

The same way the lads in Edenderry do, the club members keep an eye on their stretch, and police it themselves

Well we tried that are told they don't need licence to fish the rivers that are under club control and technically they are right it's goodwill that one joins a club . We have part of forestry leased here and it is only stretch where they can be summonsed for fishing without permit . I'm personally not out to stop anyone from fishing but would like everyone to try catch and release for a while .

Super-Rush

Dace have been in the Nore and Blackwater since the 70's so i wouldn't class them as an invasive species.

If i see anyone killing dace indiscriminately i will be contacting the IFI.

madred006

Super-Rush wrote: »

Dace have been in the Nore and Blackwater since the 70's so i wouldn't class them as an invasive species.

If i see anyone killing dace indiscriminately i will be contacting the IFI.

You might not class them as an invasive species but ifi do so lots of them just killed when they are caught ,to try and combat them but it is futile .

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

vermin99 wrote: »

They are also listed as a invasive species though

it wont stop them from giving you a 150 euro fine though!

madred006

Sonny Fat Cellist wrote: »

it wont stop them from giving you a 150 euro fine though!

They can't issue a fine when they are on invasive species list surely ? Typical IFi again really haven't a clue at times .

Zzippy

madred006 wrote: »

They can't issue a fine when they are on invasive species list surely ? Typical IFi again really haven't a clue at times .

Instead of taking poster's words as gospel, maybe try contacting IFI to see what the actual legal situation is, before slagging them off. Tip - not everything you read on the internet is true

I'm not based in that region, and we don't have dace here, but my impression would be that dace are considered an invasive species where they are not yet present - i.e. they are a threat, but where they have become established they can no longer be regarded as invasive, but as part of the fish fauna in that river. For example, they have been in the Blackwater for a very long time. In that case, it would be illegal to kill more than 4 dace in one day, and that could result in a fine. Killing every dace you catch would be taking the law into your own hands - dealing with invasive species is the responsibility of the authorities.

madred006

Zzippy wrote: »

Instead of taking poster's words as gospel, maybe try contacting IFI to see what the actual legal situation is, before slagging them off. Tip - not everything you read on the internet is true

I'm not based in that region, and we don't have dace here, but my impression would be that dace are considered an invasive species where they are not yet present - i.e. they are a threat, but where they have become established they can no longer be regarded as invasive, but as part of the fish fauna in that river. For example, they have been in the Blackwater for a very long time. In that case, it would be illegal to kill more than 4 dace in one day, and that could result in a fine. Killing every dace you catch would be taking the law into your own hands - dealing with invasive species is the responsibility of the authorities.

Our club contacted them and were informed as such that they are invasive species and its very hard to control ghe spread of them in barrow.So it's sort of a given that if they are caught they are killed regardless of size ,we were not informed that this was illegal ,so untill we are I guess just stay killing them .