Fluoride in tap water

whydave

So I have one point and two questions :
Point: if we are now to pay for drinking water can we refuse if Fluoride is still added to it ?
Question 1: what is the long term effect of adding Fluoride to tap/ drinking water ?
Question 2 : can it be removed (home kit / filters) ?

MODs if this is in the wrong place please move or delete
Thanks David

Zombienosh

You can buy a filter but its pretty expensive i think.
I agree with your point if you have to pay for it surely you should have a choice.

jh79

With a meter system we will only be paying for what we use so you could use the mains for the practical stuff and bottled for drinking.

There is presently no evidence to suggest any adverse effects of water fluoridation at concentrations present in Irish water. Ironically the papers often cited by anti-water fluoridation advocates only show toxicity at high concentrations thereby proving safety at lower concentrations.

Why filter it out it is good for your teeth.

FREETV

I know someone who works for the Dept of the Environment and he has confirmed to me about the research which I have done about the dangers of Fluoride on the internet is one hundred percent true. No lies, no bull****. :mad:

FREETV

jh79 wrote: »

With a meter system we will only be paying for what we use so you could use the mains for the practical stuff and bottled for drinking.

There is presently no evidence to suggest any adverse effects of water fluoridation at concentrations present in Irish water. Ironically the papers often cited by anti-water fluoridation advocates only show toxicity at high concentrations thereby proving safety at lower concentrations.

Why filter it out it is good for your teeth.

Fluoride rots your teeth and causes fluorosis of the teeth.
It is carcinogenic and damages the bones and the brain.
I know someone in the Dept of the Environment who has nodded to me when I asked the person about Fluoride, it is an industrial waste by product, therefore it is highly toxic!
Ask any alternative dentists.

Catherinech

I thought fluoride was good for teeth, well that is what they teach in school anyway, but please correct me i am interested to learn about these internet theories about it being damaging for the brain?

endacl

There's alternative dentistry now too?!? Is it based on ancient eastern philosophies? Gum chakras? Calcium karma?

I presume it doesn't work?

jh79

FREETV wrote: »

Fluoride rots your teeth and causes fluorosis of the teeth.
It is carcinogenic and damages the bones and the brain.
I know someone in the Dept of the Environment who has nodded to me when I asked the person about Fluoride, it is an industrial waste by product, therefore it is highly toxic!
Ask any alternative dentists.

Toxicity is dose dependent, concentrations seen in Irish water have not been shown to have any adverse effects. What role does your friend have in the dept, a scientist would never say an industrial waste by-product is by default toxic also.

What is an alternative dentist?

FREETV

endacl wrote: »

There's alternative dentistry now too?!? Is it based on ancient eastern philosophies? Gum chakras? Calcium karma?

I presume it doesn't work?

Holistic dentistry, do a google search like I did and educate yourself.

I am pie

I spoke to someone in DoE who said that the guy that nodded at you was wrong.

I guess that statement has about as much credibility as yours.

What remains once we agree that two vague statements with no evidence to substantiate them are a number of peer reviewed studies which state that the only possible toxicity risk is from concentrations vastly higher than those present in Irish water.

Do you have anything substantial to present to us to the contrary here or is this more unsubstantiated scaremongering?

ps..My mate in the DoE told me that you wouldn't have any evidence.

See what I did?

FREETV

jh79 wrote: »

Toxicity is dose dependent, concentrations seen in Irish water have not been shown to have any adverse effects. What role does your friend have in the dept, a scientist would never say an industrial waste by-product is by default toxic also.

What is an alternative dentist?

He has his own office in the Dept, he is a top Civil Servant. He has access to the paperwork.
It accumulates over time and the damage is irreversible, I am sorry to say that it is true, we even bathe, shower and wash food with tap water so that is absorbed along with chlorine which damages cells when we are washing ourselves without expensive filters. Watering plants during fine weather and the food that we grow in our gardens is another example of absorption/chemicals being absorbed through the skin.

There is big money in the sale of the bags of that crap from industry that is put in the water in waterworks and I will never pay for chlorinated and fluoridated tap water.

http://www.fluoridealert.org/issues/health/pineal-gland/

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/01/20/fluoride-denialism.aspx

endacl

FREETV wrote: »

Holistic dentistry, do a google search like I did and educate yourself.

Holistic dentistry? For fixing holes in your teeth? What if you don't have holes in your teeth? Because you regularly visit actual dentists?

King Mob

FREETV wrote: »

Fluoride rots your teeth and causes fluorosis of the teeth.
It is carcinogenic and damages the bones and the brain.

Fluoride does not rot your teeth. Fluorosis is a discoloration of the teeth, and while severe cases can look pretty nasty, the teeth of the sufferers themselves are very healthy and have very few caries.
The level of fluoride in Irish drinking water is below the amount needed to cause Fluorosis.
At safe levels it is not carcinogenic and does not damage anything.

FREETV wrote: »

I know someone in the Dept of the Environment who has nodded to me when I asked the person about Fluoride,

Could you provide some sort of evidence for this?

FREETV wrote: »

it is an industrial waste by product, therefore it is highly toxic!

It being an industrial waste byproduct does not make it immediately toxic.
Toxicity is dependent on how much of dose there is.

Water can be an industrial waste byproduct and it can be very toxic.

FREETV wrote: »

Ask any alternative dentists.

But they would have a very clear financial interest in telling people about the dangers of fluoride while offering treatments and products and devices that would supposedly allow people to undo the supposed damage caused by fluoride and/or remove it from their water.

Why are these alternative dentists immune to the same corrupting influences that make mainstream dentists lie about the effects and dangers of fluoride?

whydave

I know someone who knows someone who was in Navada that doesn't mean he can get a spaceship!;)
I don't want Fluoride in my water thus the point and questions !
Any help ?
David

whydave wrote: »

So I have one point and two questions :
Point: if we are now to pay for drinking water can we refuse if Fluoride is still added to it ?
Question 1: what is the long term effect of adding Fluoride to tap/ drinking water ?
Question 2 : can it be removed (home kit / filters) ?

MODs if this is in the wrong place please move or delete
Thanks David

King Mob

jh79 wrote: »

What is an alternative dentist?

endacl wrote: »

Holistic dentistry? For fixing holes in your teeth? What if you don't have holes in your teeth? Because you regularly visit actual dentists?

From what I gather alternative dentists/holistic dentists are similar to other alternative health practitioners. As in they supply dubious treatments that purport to be more effective/less harmful than the mainstream ones because they use less scary chemicals etc.

I think in addition to opposing fluoride, alternative dentists also warn of the dangers of fillings that contain mercury while also just happening to offer services to remove and replace such fillings.

King Mob

whydave wrote: »

Question 1: what is the long term effect of adding Fluoride to tap/ drinking water ?
Question 2 : can it be removed (home kit / filters) ?

1. At the dosage in Irish (and other developed countries with water fluoridation) there is no adverse long term effects.

2. Any kits or filters marketed by people who oppose fluoridation would have no guarantee of working as advertised and would be very hard to find information on whether they actually did or not.

pog it

This happens a lot where I live but at the weekend we had an awful lot of water coming out of the tap really chalky and milky in colour.

I left some in a glass and after a while it changed to a normal clear colour with a bit of fizz in it. Does anyone know what this is?
The water was literally really chalky and milky when it first came out of tap so much so that we could not drink it.

Sunhill

That is perfectly pure water which was being pumped at too high a pressure. The cloudy stuff is just microscopic bubbles, though their appearance is very deceptive. when the bubbles disperse the water is clear because it contains nothing else.

pog it

Cheers for that Sunhill. Great to know that! Would you drink it straight from the tap yourself when it comes out cloudy like that or do you wait for it to clear?

FREETV

http://www.fluoridealert.org/issues/health/pineal-gland/
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/01/20/fluoride-denialism.aspx

Experts know, it is widely known if you just do even a little research.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBZRb-73tLc

King Mob

FREETV wrote: »

http://www.fluoridealert.org/issues/health/pineal-gland/
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/01/20/fluoride-denialism.aspx

Experts know, it is widely known if you just do even a little research.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBZRb-73tLc

Ok, but why should we trust those experts.

Plenty of experts say the exact opposite to them, so why should we trust folks like Mercola over the majority of experts?

jh79

FREETV wrote: »

http://www.fluoridealert.org/issues/health/pineal-gland/
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/01/20/fluoride-denialism.aspx

Experts know, it is widely known if you just do even a little research.

A website like fluoride alert is hardly going to be partisan, anyways they tend to misrepresent the data and fail to take concentration into account.

In your opinion which single piece of research is the most "damning" from your perspective?

FREETV

I mentioned the PSTV documentary on youtube to which I have linked.The Civil Servant in the DOE will not drink tap water as he has the knowledge about what is good or bad for a person and the environment, it is in most toothpastes and mouthwashes also, why to make money.

In the same way that we are living in a debt based economy con, fluoride is also another con.
There is no need for it to be put in the water. Hitler used it to control the Jews in the death camps.
It is present in Prozac and some rat poisons. It dumbs people down and makes them acquiescent and believe the muck on Irish television and current affairs.

goz83

They say the pineal gland is also our third eye ( though a few jokers will snigger and disagree ). If fluoride calcifies the gland, it would be very hard to measure, because plenty of stuff in our diets do a much better job of this. Carbonated drinks for a start.

jh79

FREETV wrote: »

I mentioned the PSTV documentary on youtube to which I have linked.The Civil Servant in the DOE and he will not drink tap water as he has the knowledge about what is good or bad for a person and the environment, it is in most toothpastes and mouthwashes also, why to make money.

Can you link to a single piece of research that shows toxicity either short or long term at 1ppm levels?

FREETV

How much evidence do you guys need I wonder?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbj4zdYZnJc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eou_UMhHlm4

HurtLocker

FREETV wrote: »

How much evidence do you guys need I wonder?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbj4zdYZnJc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eou_UMhHlm4

Maybe something from the WHO or a government organisation.

King Mob

FREETV wrote: »

Hitler used it to control the Jews in the death camps.

This is a myth invented by people opposed to fluoridation.
http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2011/oct/06/critics-water-fluoridation/truth-about-fluoride-doesnt-include-nazi-myth/

FREETV wrote: »

It is present in Prozac and some rat poisons.

So is water.

FREETV wrote: »

It dumbs people down and makes them acquiescent and believe the muck on Irish television and current affairs.

There is zero evidence of this.

However it is ironic that you are accusing others of being dumbed down and believing what they are told, by stating facts from suspicious experts who seem very dishonest and stingy with evidence.

FREETV

I guess because I don't get paid by the Government and nor will I ever want to that is why I like to inform people of the truth, even if there are those who try to misinform and believe that they know better. I don't believe that every researcher/whistleblower out there advocating that fluoride should be taken out of water is telling lies or doing it just to make money.

endacl

HurtLocker wrote: »

Maybe something from the WHO or a government organisation.

Government is sneaky and can't be trusted. They're always out to take over the world, Pinky and the Brain style. While evidence provided by government may be perfectly acceptable in other fora, it doesn't fly in here.

King Mob

FREETV wrote: »

I guess because I don't get paid by the Government and nor will I ever want to ever so I like to inform people of the truth, even if there are those who try to misinform.

But it seems like the people you are putting forward as experts have a lot to gain from misinforming people about fluoride.

I don't understand why you reject the mainstream science on this issue because mainstream scientists might have something to gain, but then immediately believe everything from alternative sources who have just as much to gain.

FREETV wrote: »

I don't believe that every researcher/whistleblower out there advocating that fluoride should be taken out of water is telling lies or doing it just to make money.

But you believe that every scientist who disargees with you is telling lies and is in it for the money?

How do you tell the difference between the ones who are telling the truth and those who are misinforming to make money?

FREETV

Lets also just say that a friend of mine who has had problems with his neck has also seen a dramatic improvement in his neck pain since he has stopped drinking tap water.

FREETV

King Mob wrote: »

But it seems like the people you are putting forward as experts have a lot to gain from misinforming people about fluoride.

I don't understand why you reject the mainstream science on this issue because mainstream scientists might have something to gain, but then immediately believe everything from alternative sources who have just as much to gain.

Mainstream Scientists also believe that we are alone in the Universe. Take a look at the Citizens Hearing on youtube and the disclosure videos linked further up in the Conspiracy Theories page.

HurtLocker

endacl wrote: »

Government is sneaky and can't be trusted. They're always out to take over the world, Pinky and the Brain style. While evidence provided by government may be perfectly acceptable in other fora, it doesn't fly in here.

Cause you know in truth them pesky governments are putting fluoride in the water causing cancer. They cover it up but they know the reality of what they are doing. And then paying for the chemo treatment and radiology which can easily hit the €50,000 mark per patient. Genius. :pac:

RGDATA!

goz83 wrote: »

They say the pineal gland is also our third eye ( though a few jokers will snigger and disagree ). If fluoride calcifies the gland, it would be very hard to measure, because plenty of stuff in our diets do a much better job of this. Carbonated drinks for a start.

why is one a joker if one disagrees that the pineal gland is also our third eye?
what does this even mean, really?
any links to any studies which show that carbonated drinks that "calcify the pineal gland", would love to read if there is one? what is in the carbonated drinks that supposedly causing this?

Also curious about how the anti-flouride folks feel about chlorine in the water?

endacl

King Mob wrote: »

But it seems like the people you are putting forward as experts have a lot to gain from misinforming people about fluoride.

I don't understand why you reject the mainstream science on this issue because mainstream scientists might have something to gain, but then immediately believe everything from alternative sources who have just as much to gain.

The word 'mainstream' as regards CT's, takes on quite a different meaning though. In the same way a 'liberal' does in the States (Booooo. America.), and 'moderate' does in middle eastern 'politics' (also Booooo. America. I presume... ).

The rightness or wrongness of the fact has little bearing on its validity. Its all about the source. I'm surprised YouTube videos are still accepted as evidence at all. Having been bought by Google, who of course are evil, global and corporate. Don't forget the whole '666 in the logo' thing, and why it couldn't possibly be '999'...

:rolleyes:

endacl

RGDATA! wrote: »

?

Also curious about how the anti-flouride folks feel about chlorine in the water?

If they have a problem with it, they'd better stay as far as possible from the sea...

King Mob

FREETV wrote: »

Mainstream Scientists also believe that we are alone in the Universe. Take a look at the Citizens Hearing on youtube and the disclosure videos linked further up in the Conspiracy Theories page.

This does not answer my question.

You are rejecting all mainstream scientists because they have a vested interest.

All of the sources and experts you are linking to all have a vested interest in misinforming people about fluoride.

So why do you reject all mainstream scientists, but not all of your experts?
What makes them immune to the same corruption?
How do you tell the difference between a corrupted expert who opposes fluoridation for their own gain and a genuine one?

RGDATA!

FREETV wrote: »

Mainstream Scientists also believe that we are alone in the Universe. Take a look at the Citizens Hearing on youtube and the disclosure videos linked further up in the Conspiracy Theories page.

that's not true at all? Maybe you have some specific "mainstream scientists" in mind who do but in fact science is actively looking for signs of other life in the universe. More accurate to say that science is open minded and certainly does not rule out life elsewhere in the universe

endacl

FREETV wrote: »

Mainstream Scientists also believe that we are alone in the Universe. Take a look at the Citizens Hearing on youtube and the disclosure videos linked further up in the Conspiracy Theories page.

Most, I've found, would be very open to the possibility (or more likely probability) of life on other worlds, and in different forms. What gave you that notion?

FREETV

I was mostly taking the pi## as regards the mainstream science about life out there but back on topic now about chlorine.

http://environment.about.com/od/earthtalkcolumns/a/chlorine.htm

endacl

FREETV wrote: »

I was mostly taking the pi## as regards the mainstream science about life out there but back on topic now about chlorine.

Didn't read that way. Read like you were countered and didn't have a response, and so backed down. Why should your word be taken on flouride?

FREETV

Fluoride is a money making con, fact. There are alternatives to chlorine also. Any amount of either chemical is toxic.

The money makers who know of the toxicity do not regularily bathe in it or drink it, believe me. :pac:

endacl

'Fact' and 'believe me' in one post....?

FREETV

endacl wrote: »

Didn't read that way. Read like you were countered and didn't have a response, and so backed down. Why should your word be taken on flouride?

The whole UFO and ET is ridiculed and played down on purpose by the mainstream media as the wealthy elite families run those corporations and would lose out big time if the full truth got out.

I do some research, never said that I worked for the Government or am a scientist but I can see and sense the truth when it is fairly obvious.

King Mob

FREETV wrote: »

Fluoride is a money making con, fact.

http://shop.mercola.com/catalog/categoryinfo.aspx?filter=&search=fluoride&type=q&keywordoption=ANY&cid=2&fltrdesc=

Seems like this guy makes a tidy profit from telling people about the dangers of fluoride.

endacl

FREETV wrote: »

The whole UFO and ET is ridiculed and played down on purpose by the mainstream media as the wealthy elite families run those corporations and would lose out big time if the full truth got out.

FREETV

King Mob wrote: »

http://shop.mercola.com/catalog/categoryinfo.aspx?filter=&search=fluoride&type=q&keywordoption=ANY&cid=2&fltrdesc=

Seems like this guy makes a tidy profit from telling people about the dangers of fluoride.

Unfortunately we are forced to pay for things so we all need money to survive.

Profit and greed are the reasons why fluoride and chlorine are in our tap water.

endacl

FREETV wrote: »

Profit and greed are the reasons why fluoride and chlorine are in our tap water.

Explain the mechanism. I buy toothpaste. I buy it with flouride in. If it wasn't in it, I'd still buy toothpaste. I like having clean teeth. I'd imagine I'm fairly standard in this regard. How does the presence/absence of flouride in toothpaste explain 'profit and greed'?

King Mob

FREETV wrote: »

Profit and greed are the reasons why fluoride and chlorine are in our tap water.

But then why aren't profit and greed the reason for why someone might lie and misinform about something safe so they can make a profit from their own products?

How do you know that Mercola is not lying to make money?

FREETV

endacl wrote: »

Explain the mechanism. I buy toothpaste. I buy it with flouride in. If it wasn't in it, I'd still buy toothpaste. I like having clean teeth. I'd imagine I'm fairly standard in this regard. How does the presence/absence of flouride in toothpaste explain 'profit and greed'?

As they need a way to get rid of the industrial fluoride so it goes in to our systems and in to water treatment plants as a way of making billions and getting rid of the waste fluoride which then goes in to the sewage treatment plants and in to the rivers, oceans, seas as it is the only legal way to dump it.