Main dealer servicing charges

the culture of deference

Phoned around a lot of dealers today to get a quote for a 2nd service. The parts are under 100 euro for genuine parts. Most garages quoted €250 for the oil and oil filter, and fuel filter.

They all seem to be at least €85 euro + vat an hour, but for the breakdown of jobs they use a time chart. So changing the oil and oil filter, and fuel filter is 1.75 hours, but that includes a magic FREE 25 point check and the car washed.

How do they get away with this? Do we have some government dept to stop price fixing.

Stallingrad

VW are pretty keen these days...

http://www.volkswagen.ie/en/service/volkswagen_service/fixed-price-service.html

djimi

Get away with what exactly?

jimgoose

djimi wrote: »

Get away with what exactly?

At a guess, I'd say charging outrageous hourly rates so they can service the bowel-evacuatingly huge debts on their shiny glass and steel palaces while a Polish youngfella who finished his Time last Summer works on your expensive automobile for a little above minimum wage.

R.O.R

djimi wrote: »

Get away with what exactly?

Making profit by the looks of things. Damn businesses...

djimi

jimgoose wrote: »

At a guess, I'd say charging outrageous hourly rates so they can service the bowel-evacuatingly huge debts on their shiny glass and steel palaces while a Polish youngfella who finished his Time last Summer works on your expensive automobile for a little above minimum wage.

The hourly rates that they freely advertise prior to any work being carried out? Its not like they are twisting anyones arm to use their services; there is always the option to use the (usually substantially) cheaper independent garage option.

the culture of deference

djimi wrote: »

The hourly rates that they freely advertise prior to any work being carried out? Its not like they are twisting anyones arm to use their services; there is always the option to use the (usually substantially) cheaper independent garage option.

So you have no problem with 100 euro an hour inc vat, or 1.75 hours labour to do oil and oil / fuel filter change.

07Lapierre

the culture of deference wrote: »

So you have no problem with 100 euro an hour inc vat, or 1.75 hours labour to do oil and oil / fuel filter change, Check lights and Levels, check emissions/engine management system, carry out any warranty updates, wash and hoover car.

No

djimi

the culture of deference wrote: »

So you have no problem with 100 euro an hour inc vat, or 1.75 hours labour to do oil and oil / fuel filter change.

They can charge €1000 a hour for all I care; I know they are expensive and I wont be using them. Its not like they keep the prices a big secret until it comes time to pay; you do have the choice of going elsewhere.

recyclebin

To be fair lots of dealers have ads in local papers for basic servicing for under €100

MuppetCheck

I've had services done for less in main dealers than the local guy quoted for the exact same work. Should I start a thread about all indy mechanics being robbing bastard, just to balance things out and all.

Guy:Incognito

the culture of deference wrote: »

So you have no problem with 100 euro an hour inc vat, or 1.75 hours labour to do oil and oil / fuel filter change.

They own the place, they can charge what they like. Just like a guy that has a corner shop can charge €100 for a mars bar if he wants.

visual

Learn to do it your self, oil and filters isnt that difficult plus the satisfaction of DIY is great.

bazz26

the culture of deference wrote: »

So you have no problem with 100 euro an hour inc vat, or 1.75 hours labour to do oil and oil / fuel filter change.

They can charge whatever hourly rate they like but it's your decision as a consumer to pay it or go somewhere else.

naughtysmurf

My last main dealer service was €165, that was only oil, oil filter & air filter plus what ever else they check / do but my next service, I have to change fuel filter, that's €70 alone, as far as I can see, decent indy's are charging €50/€60 an hour labour

mickdw

I paid 99 or 109 for last few services on my audi at main dealer.
Its oil, filter and all service checks which surprisingly were reasonably thorough.
Considering it cost me nearly 80 to do oil and filter myself, I think their pricing is a bargain. Additionally, I couldn't claim to have given the car any meaningful inspection when lying under it on the ground. So for a good inspection and main dealer stamp and receipt, 20 to 30 quid over material costs of doing oil myself is fine by me.
I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt in relation to the quality of oil being used.

the culture of deference

R.O.R wrote: »

Making profit by the looks of things. Damn businesses...

A question to the mechanics here.

Do you think it takes 1 and 3/4 hours to do an oil change and oil / fuel filter change.

All garages say they use a book to guide how long a service should take. Surely you should be charged by the work done. Is this not fraud?

djimi

the culture of deference wrote: »

A question to the mechanics here.

Do you think it takes 1 and 3/4 hours to do an oil change and oil / fuel filter change.

All garages say they use a book to guide how long a service should take. Surely you should be charged by the work done. Is this not fraud?

How is it fraud if they are up front about the cost before they carry out the work? How they calculate the charge is up to them, but if they decide that an oil and filter service is going to take 1.75 hours at €x per hour and they tell you this in advance then I really dont see the issue?

stimpson

Just pick up the phone.

I rang around the local Toyota dealers for a full service this week - anywhere from 325 - 350. Then I rang Murphy and Gunn - ex-Toyota dealer, but still an approved Toyota service centre. €255. I asked them to double check it was a full service - yes - intermediate service for 155, full for 255.

djimi

stimpson wrote: »

Just pick up the phone.

I rang around the local Toyota dealers for a full service this week - anywhere from 325 - 350. Then I rang Murphy and Gunn - ex-Toyota dealer, but still an approved Toyota service centre. €255. I asked them to double check it was a full service - yes - intermediate service for 155, full for 255.

Just be careful and check that both have the same definition of full service. Ive seen some garages idea of a full service amount to nothing more than changing the oil and air filter.

Henry Ford III

I got a text offering a "summer value service" from a main dealer for €109 yesterday.

Probably only oil/filter and a once over with a view to i.d'ing extra work, but it's not a bad deal.

knifey_spoonie

the culture of deference wrote: »

All garages say they use a book to guide how long a service should take. Surely you should be charged by the work done. Is this not fraud?

What would you prefer, Would you like them to say to you I can't give you a price you have to wait to see how long my mechanic spends doing the job, then once its done i will give you the the cost.

Then it would be a case of he did work and i arrived back to a huge bill and he is a robbing b*stard.

You seem to be either naive, unrealistic or both with your expectations of how business works.

You are clearly provided with a quote before you even make contact with the dealership, how can this be fraud or maybe you don't understand that either. Just in case, im pretty sure fraud is considered "intentional deception for personal gain" can you explain where fraud comes into it ??

Edit:

Just on your price fixing comment, have you considered that most dealers will have similar overheads IE wages are similar, esb bills will be similar actually pretty much all over heads are similar, so i suppose prices will be similar too, Do you go crying price fixing because the all the shops in town charge €1 for a can of coke.

R.O.R

the culture of deference wrote: »

A question to the mechanics here.

Do you think it takes 1 and 3/4 hours to do an oil change and oil / fuel filter change.

All garages say they use a book to guide how long a service should take. Surely you should be charged by the work done. Is this not fraud?

If Autodata says it takes 1.75hours to fo an oil change and oil / fuel filter change, then it's likely a main dealer will charge for 1.75 hours of Labour.

The good news is though, if for some reason it takes 2.5 hours, you still get charged based on what Autodata says.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

visual wrote: »

Learn to do it your self, oil and filters isnt that difficult plus the satisfaction of DIY is great.

And your warrenty is out the Window on a new car.

Old cars yeah

George Dalton

the culture of deference wrote: »

A question to the mechanics here.

Do you think it takes 1 and 3/4 hours to do an oil change and oil / fuel filter change.

All garages say they use a book to guide how long a service should take. Surely you should be charged by the work done. Is this not fraud?

Do you really think a full service amounts to just changing fluids and filters?

Nemeses

That VW price list seems very reasonable for a main dealer. Bit surprised actually on the cost.

I know generally main dealers are more costly but still, They give you a quote up front.

Not sure what the issue here is?

Stoolbend

George Dalton wrote: »

Do you really think a full service amounts to just changing fluids and filters?

Most people seem to think so.

stimpson

djimi wrote: »

Just be careful and check that both have the same definition of full service. Ive seen some garages idea of a full service amount to nothing more than changing the oil and air filter.

It's a Toyota Spec full service. Intermediate service plus brake fluid and the extra inspections. Like I say, they are an approved Toyota service centre with Toyota trained mechanics, so I would expect it to be the real deal.

djimi

stimpson wrote: »

It's a Toyota Spec full service. Intermediate service plus brake fluid and the extra inspections. Like I say, they are an approved Toyota service centre with Toyota trained mechanics, so I would expect it to be the real deal.

Ah right, fair enough. Ive just learned in most cases to take the term "full service" with a very large pinch of salt!

the culture of deference

the culture of deference wrote: »

A question to the mechanics here.

Do you think it takes 1 and 3/4 hours to do an oil change and oil / fuel filter change.

All garages say they use a book to guide how long a service should take. Surely you should be charged by the work done. Is this not fraud?

To any mechanics here.

How long would it take you to change the oil and oil / fuel filter in a 2 year old car?

the culture of deference

Nemeses wrote: »

That VW price list seems very reasonable for a main dealer. Bit surprised actually on the cost.

I know generally main dealers are more costly but still, They give you a quote up front.

Not sure what the issue here is?

The issue is why dealers are charging 1 and 3/4 hours labour for a 45 minute job max, where labour is nearly 100 euro an hour inc vat.

The VW offer is for cars 4 years or older, not sure what the difference between a 2009 and 2011 version of the same car would be.

George Dalton

the culture of deference wrote: »

The issue is why dealers are charging 1 and 3/4 hours labour for a 45 minute job max, where labour is nearly 100 euro an hour inc vat.

The VW offer is for cars 4 years or older, not sure what the difference between a 2009 and 2011 version of the same car would be.

Here you go again, confusing changing filters and fluids with actually carrying out a full inspection service.

djimi

the culture of deference wrote: »

The issue is why dealers are charging 1 and 3/4 hours labour for a 45 minute job max, where labour is nearly 100 euro an hour inc vat.

The price that you have been given is €183 (85*1.75*1.23). Forget about how they reached that figure; that is the price that this garage has given you to service your car. If you dont like it, ring around and go to another garage that offers a more favourable rate. Theres not much point complaining about it.

Same was as I dont complain about the prices in Marks and Spencers because I know I have the option of going to Tescos and getting what I want for cheaper. I know M&S is expensive (because they are upfront about their pricing, the same as this garage is), so I choose to shop elsewhere.

Nemeses

the culture of deference wrote: »

The issue is why dealers are charging 1 and 3/4 hours labour for a 45 minute job max, where labour is nearly 100 euro an hour inc vat.

The VW offer is for cars 4 years or older, not sure what the difference between a 2009 and 2011 version of the same car would be.

Difference I would imagine would be parts availability and so forth. Probably a lot of factors involved.

Its a set price. They are entitled to charge that. I suppose the same as McDonalds can charge you 2 euro for a burger and SuperMacs can charge you 4.50 for a burger..same thing right?

Same Difference really.

the culture of deference

George Dalton wrote: »

Here you go again, confusing changing filters and fluids with actually carrying out a full inspection service.

answer the question i asked

Nemeses

the culture of deference wrote: »

answer the question i asked

I answered it for you. Many posters here have answered it as well.

Drummerboy08

the culture of deference wrote: »

The issue is why dealers are charging 1 and 3/4 hours labour for a 45 minute job max, where labour is nearly 100 euro an hour inc vat.

The VW offer is for cars 4 years or older, not sure what the difference between a 2009 and 2011 version of the same car would be.

what exactly is carried out in the 45 minutes?

NobodyImportant

I've seen what some main dealers do in a full service and its outrageous. They have gotten away with it for too long.

My mother in law was charged €225 for an oil and filter change back in 2008 from a main dealer. €180 of that was labour. That amounted to two hours, for an oil and filter change? Probably by a FAS Apprentice and all. Its a 30 minute job, quick look around the car and throw it out for a €5 wash.

Needless to say she hasnt been back. Its costing her less than half price at a SPECIALIST independent now, still using OEM parts.

the culture of deference

Nemeses wrote: »

I answered it for you. Many posters here have answered it as well.

no one has answered

how long should oil and oil fuel / filter take to change on a car

Drummerboy08

the culture of deference wrote: »

no one has answered

how long should oil and oil fuel / filter take to change on a car

from start to finish, between 40/50 minutes to do it right.

Stallingrad

the culture of deference wrote: »

no one has answered

how long should oil and oil fuel / filter take to change on a car

Did a Punto in 10 minutes recently. Not all cars are that easy.

Nemeses

Stallingrad wrote: »

Did a Punto in 10 minutes recently. Not all cars are that easy.

I agreed.

Took me an hour to do a Citreon Xsara.

Guy:Incognito

Stallingrad wrote: »

Did a Punto in 10 minutes recently. Not all cars are that easy.

From the minute you first walked to the car with the keys till you switched it off and locked it again including a wash?

Sam Russell

Look in the service manual.
The 'Full Service' is defined in the service manual.

Oil change service:
Brake pad thickness and disk condition front and back
Oil change and fiter changed
Date of next service entered on sticker
Service interval display reset
..... and that is it.
Interval service
as above plus :
battery checked
tread depth including spare
brake system checked for leaks and damage
brake fluid level is checke re pad wear
the lights and horn checked
windscreen checked for damage
coolant level checked filled as necessary
Engine and components checked from above and below inc cv joint
for leaks and damage
breakdown set (inc sealant bottle) is checked
road test to check everything
Wiper wash system checked and topped up
headlight settings

An inspection service has all the above and more suff.

That is what service means to VW. Not sure what and indy garage does.

Focus_sligo

Sam Russell wrote: »

Look in the service manual.
The 'Full Service' is defined in the service manual.

Oil change service:
Brake pad thickness and disk condition front and back
Oil change and fiter changed
Date of next service entered on sticker
Service interval display reset
..... and that is it.
Interval service
as above plus :
battery checked
tread depth including spare
brake system checked for leaks and damage
brake fluid level is checke re pad wear
the lights and horn checked
windscreen checked for damage
coolant level checked filled as necessary
Engine and components checked from above and below inc cv joint
for leaks and damage
breakdown set (inc sealant bottle) is checked
road test to check everything
Wiper wash system checked and topped up
headlight settings

An inspection service has all the above and more suff.

That is what service means to VW. Not sure what and indy garage does.

Don't forget a diagnostic session, tyre pressures, lubricate hinges etc. and all VAG garages are mystery shopped 4 times per year with big fines if all work not carried out to vw specs, from the first time the customer makes contact up to they keys are handed back

Sam Russell

Focus_sligo wrote: »

Don't forget a diagnostic session, tyre pressures, lubricate hinges etc. and all VAG garages are mystery shopped 4 times per year with big fines if all work not carried out to vw specs, from the first time the customer makes contact up to they keys are handed back

I was quoting from their service book. It is obviously not complete.

visual

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

And your warrenty is out the Window on a new car.

Old cars yeah

Wake up and smell the roses. The difference in cost of DIY over warrantee period compared to dealer prices would nearly buy you another car. Plus your taking it for granted the warranty is voild if you DIY and that isn't true if you prove its manufacturer fault unrelated to DIY.

Dealerships have earned the name stealerships and price fixing isnt unheard off in new cars

Each to their own.

dh0011

FYI - i had to get a new mechanic a bit back. I emailed every main dealer in i could find in cork city asking for a quote. They varyied between 90 and 150 for an oil and filter service for a petrol avensis. Cheapest was the opel dealer and they are very close to home.