The Electric Car

ScumLord

Deleted User wrote: »

motorist it offers nothing other than faster refuelling but the refuelling can be done over night when they're asleep or in the future it's quiet possible DC chargers will become much cheaper so charging a 60 Kwh battery could take just 2-3 hrs but for the majority this won't be necessary because the range will be charged over a few days.

Even 2 - 3 hours is too much, it would turn me off getting one if I had to remember to charge the car.

The swappable battery seems like the best solution to me, it wouldn't even require much infrastructure then either. They could simply supply a battery swapping machine that E-cars drive onto. Petrol stations would just need to find a space for it.

A battery swapping method would more than likely mean your paying a monthly charge rather than paying for each fill (your using their batteries so they're going to need deposits and a contract), it could be that other than making the space for the battery swapper there's no charge to the petrol station for the equipment. It would be owned and maintained by the battery supply company and the station just charges for rental of the space.

ScumLord

ScumLord wrote: »

Even 2 - 3 hours is too much, it would turn me off getting one if I had to remember to charge the car.

The swappable battery seems like the best solution to me, it wouldn't even require much infrastructure then either. They could simply supply a battery swapping machine that E-cars drive onto. Petrol stations would just need to find a space for it.

A battery swapping method would more than likely mean your paying a monthly charge rather than paying for each fill (your using their batteries so they're going to need deposits and a contract), it could be that other than making the space for the battery swapper there's no charge to the petrol station for the equipment. It would be owned and maintained by the battery supply company and the station just charges for rental of the space.

So you're willing to pay a high price for hydrogen because you fear leaving the car unplugged ? I haven't done this yet in nearly a year !

I can't believe 200 miles range is still not enough for people with an over night charge. Especially if you can replace 170 miles in 30 mins on a 100 Kw charger. I think the majority of people will be more than happy with this apart from the usual EV bashers here on boards.

Battery swapping was tried and failed, too expensive to set up and maintain.

ScumLord

Deleted User wrote: »

So you're willing to pay a high price for hydrogen because you fear leaving the car unplugged ? I haven't done this yet in nearly a year !

I never mentioned hydrogen in that post?

I can't believe 200 miles range is still not enough for people with an over night charge. Especially if you can replace 170 miles in 30 mins on a 100 Kw charger. I think the majority of people will be more than happy with this apart from the usual EV bashers here on boards.

It's not so much that 200 miles isn't enough range, its that if I need to do another 200 miles I'll have to wait until tomorrow to do it. If I forget to charge the car I'm fecked, if there's a problem with the elctricity supply I'm fecked. The only guarantee I'd get from an electric car that's properly managed is that it will get me to work and back.

Battery swapping was tried and failed, too expensive to set up and maintain.

Who tried and failed at battery swapping?

ScumLord

ScumLord wrote: »

I never mentioned hydrogen in that post?

It's not so much that 200 miles isn't enough range, its that if I need to do another 200 miles I'll have to wait until tomorrow to do it. If I forget to charge the car I'm fecked, if there's a problem with the elctricity supply I'm fecked. The only guarantee I'd get from an electric car that's properly managed is that it will get me to work and back.

Who tried and failed at battery swapping?

Better place tried and failed with battery swapping.

If you need to do another 200 miles range then there's a high probability you won't be near home and will use the 100 Kw chargers if they're rolled out fast though.

You'll always find a what if question but they haven't happened to me yet.

What if my ICE won't start because the 12 battery dies and I can't get a jump start ?

What if I go out to the ICE car and it won't start ?

If I hear of a storm coming I will charge the car before for instance.

All unlikely scenarios but possibilities.

ScumLord

Deleted User wrote: »

Better place tried and failed with battery swapping.

They must be the Israeli company I had heard of. From what I'm reading here it was mismanagement that lead to the collapse of the company. But they're not the only company doing it, Tesla already has a facility for testing battery swapping and it sounds like that's the direction they want to go. They have a good prerogative to get people to switch to this service since they guaranteed free charging on their stations for life.

It will take industry standardisation and we may be some time off that but there's nothing indicating battery swapping would fail, or has failed. It hasn't even been on a large scale trial yet.

nokia69

ScumLord wrote: »

They must be the Israeli company I had heard of. From what I'm reading here it was mismanagement that lead to the collapse of the company. But they're not the only company doing it, Tesla already has a facility for testing battery swapping and it sounds like that's the direction they want to go. They have a good prerogative to get people to switch to this service since they guaranteed free charging on their stations for life.

It will take industry standardisation and we may be some time off that but there's nothing indicating battery swapping would fail, or has failed. It hasn't even been on a large scale trial yet.

It failed for better place, they lost millions, not enough people were interested in the idea

Tesla were going to start demo trial run of battery swapping, but again so few people were interested they have more or less given up on the idea for now

with large batteries 60kWh or better, and supercharging there is no need for battery swapping

ScumLord

nokia69 wrote: »

It failed for better place, they lost millions, not enough people were interested in the idea

That's one company, of many that are trialing swappable batteries it seems pretty clear they mismanaged the situation. They opened to many test stations at a time when too few people even had electric cars. If you're telling people to buy their electric car and spend a load more money adapting the batteries for swapping, of course your not going to get the few people that have overpaid for the early adoption of electric to switch.

It's a very different situation to a manufacturer providing a standardised swappable battery.

Tesla were going to start demo trial run of battery swapping, but again so few people were interested they have more or less given up on the idea for now

Tesla still seem to be trialing the technology, just last year Elon was doing demonstrations of the system, comparing it to petrol fills.

Electric cars are still in a minority, very few people have them, it's impossible to say what interest is like. Unless you have links to some surveys of people saying that if they did buy an electric car they'd prefer that the battery is permanently fixed and not possible to quickly swap out.

with large batteries 60kWh or better, and supercharging there is no need for battery swapping

Yes there is, no company is going to buy a car/van that needs to stop for 30 minutes (at best) every 300km. I don't see most people that live in the country taking a risk on an electric until there's infrastructure. If electric wants to replace combustion it needs to be better than a petrol in every way, including range and ease of refueling.

ScumLord

ScumLord wrote: »

If electric wants to replace combustion it needs to be better than a petrol in every way, including range and ease of refueling.

We'll see what happens to diesel if the E.U introduce stricter emissions controls and tests. Could be huge boost to EV in the next 5-10 years.

There is no incentive to go electric as it stands now, "cheap" diesel 50-60 quid a week in fuel is more than affordable to most people, range is an issue but 200 miles ? come on, that has to attract a lot more people.

ScumLord

Deleted User wrote: »

We'll see what happens to diesel if the E.U introduce stricter emissions controls and tests. Could be huge boost to EV in the next 5-10 years.

There is no incentive to go electric as it stands now, "cheap" diesel 50-60 quid a week in fuel is more than affordable to most people, range is an issue but 200 miles ? come on, that has to attract a lot more people.

Depends on your job and how far you are away from amenities I guess. In a city I think an electric makes perfect sense. Once you're out in the country they just don't work. The range is an issue when you have to drive ten miles or more for just about everything. Go to work, come back, go down to the shop, bring the kids to soccer, it all adds up to the point you'd want to make sure you're plugged in when ever the car is not in use. Maybe a wireless charging pad in your driveway could sort that though?

For business it makes no financial sense whatsoever.

ScumLord

ScumLord wrote: »

Depends on your job and how far you are away from amenities I guess. In a city I think an electric makes perfect sense. Once you're out in the country they just don't work. The range is an issue when you have to drive ten miles or more for just about everything. Go to work, come back, go down to the shop, bring the kids to soccer, it all adds up to the point you'd want to make sure you're plugged in when ever the car is not in use. Maybe a wireless charging pad in your driveway could sort that though?

For business it makes no financial sense whatsoever.

A 200 mile commute ? I admit the current 70-80 mile range is a bit low and the 90-105 miles of the 30 Kwh but 200 miles ? the average daily commute driven in Ireland is 16 Kms.

I don't live in a City or Town and drive 134 Kms daily, yes I have the work charge point now but was happy enough to charge on the way home for 10 mins, and sure it's nice to keep driving and not having to stop to charge but it really didn't bother me and I know I'd be the exception , most people wouldn't entertain the idea even if it's saving 180 Euro's a month or more and that's fine by me, it worked for me. Having said that the 30 Kwh battery would allow me complete my daily commute with no charging. And I could even travel further. But the 60 Kwh if affordable would be more than I need 98% of the time, the limitation to me is more the 25,000 Kms a year PCP limit.

As for plugging in the car ? if someone finds that too difficult or a chore then there's something wrong.

ScumLord

Deleted User wrote: »

As for plugging in the car ? if someone finds that too difficult or a chore then there's something wrong.

You have made it work for you and you're reaping the rewards. But if you're going to convince people to switch the car needs to beat the diesel hands down in every way. It's clear as is that electric hasn't convinced to many families to switch.

It's not about it being too difficult, it's that it currently take management to run an electric, you have to plan out journeys and there's very little margin for error. Imagine a big family, the mother goes to work, picks up kids, gets them inside, gets the homework done, dinner on, it's all go, go, go, it would be easy for a busy person like that to simply forget about the car, not regularly, but once in awhile. That would be enough to put a lot of people off. Me included, I'd forget my own head if it wasn't attached to my body.


At the moment electric is a workable solution, it's not for everybody yet though, the electrics simply can't meet their demands. I'm fully confident electric is the future though. Like I've already said, electrics are far superior cars in every way bar range. Unfortunately it's a vital part of the purchase decision.

nokia69

ScumLord wrote: »

Tesla still seem to be trialing the technology, just last year Elon was doing demonstrations of the system, comparing it to petrol fills.

Electric cars are still in a minority, very few people have them, it's impossible to say what interest is like. Unless you have links to some surveys of people saying that if they did buy an electric car they'd prefer that the battery is permanently fixed and not possible to quickly swap out.

yes they did a demo last year, the video is on youtube, then after that they were due to start public trials at Harris Ranch in California, so they sent out e-mails to all the Model S drivers in the area asking them if they were interested in the idea, not enough were interested so Tesla seem to have given up on the idea for now, most people seem very happy with the superchargers

they may still be working on it in house, but it looks like they have dropped the idea

ScumLord wrote: »

Yes there is, no company is going to buy a car/van that needs to stop for 30 minutes (at best) every 300km. I don't see most people that live in the country taking a risk on an electric until there's infrastructure. If electric wants to replace combustion it needs to be better than a petrol in every way, including range and ease of refueling.

actually I bet EVs will become very popular company cars, I think you over estimate the distance people drive every day

the top of the range Model S gets over 400km per charge and its very popular, its the best selling car in the US in that price range, which would suggest to me that a large % of people will buy an EV if the price is right and the range is good enough

ScumLord

nokia69 wrote: »

actually I bet EVs will become very popular company cars, I think you over estimate the distance people drive every day

the top of the range Model S gets over 400km per charge and its very popular, its the best selling car in the US in that price range, which would suggest to me that a large % of people will buy an EV if the price is right and the range is good enough

I know I would buy an electric over a combustion engine if the range was good. Still though my current car will do 600klm if you drive it flat out and 1200 if you drive it economically. It's a big difference over electric.

Company cars are usually given by sales execs, they do serious mileage, In the British isles they could be going back and over between Ireland and England. After that you have specialists like engineers. They'll more than likely need a van, even a small van wouldn't work with current battery technology. Those guys can't be late, they charge obscene amounts of money, so they'd go with the certainty of a diesel over any cost savings they'd make from an electric.

You can't take risks with transport in business, businesses will spend extra to avoid the risk their employee would be left stranded. Electric just isn't at that stage yet. I did actually look into an electric truck for work. We do have a truck that does a short 5km round trip daily, which isn't good for a combustion engine. An electric would be ideal, there just isn't anything to fit the bill yet.

nokia69

ScumLord wrote: »

I know I would buy an electric over a combustion engine if the range was good. Still though my current car will do 600klm if you drive it flat out and 1200 if you drive it economically. It's a big difference over electric.

that is a big difference, but the difference in cost is massive too, and most people only drive 600km in one go a few times a year, last week a friend of mine went from Dublin to Sligo and back for free in his Leaf

there are times when its obvious that a tech change is about to take place, for example it was clear when DVDs went on sale that VHS was finished, even when the early DVD players cost over 1000 pounds, it was still clear what was going to happen, I saw a DVD player in Tesco last week for 20 euro, its the same with EVs, it will take a while because cars are expensive, if you test drive a Nissan Leaf you might understand what I mean better

ScumLord wrote: »

You can't take risks with transport in business, businesses will spend extra to avoid the risk their employee would be left stranded. Electric just isn't at that stage yet. I did actually look into an electric truck for work. We do have a truck that does a short 5km round trip daily, which isn't good for a combustion engine. An electric would be ideal, there just isn't anything to fit the bill yet.

there are electric trucks in the works, look it up on youtube

the Model S is becoming popular in the UK for some business people doing high mileage, the fuel savings over the life of the car are massive, and the performance is even better then the same price BMWs Audi ect, one calculation I saw said that over 5 years a Model S would save over £20K in fuel costs next to the same priced BMW

the electric car won't be stopped now, the ICE is finished

Still comparing to ICE range ? I don't get it, the average Irish commute is 16 Kms, throw in the odd trip over 300 Kms this is where fast charging is for.

I know the Model S is supposed to have 600 miles range by 2020 but that's ridiculous, huge waste of resources.

I can't accept that even a busy "mother" with a big family would find it too inconvenient to plug in a car every coupled of days with a 200 mile range car. Even every day jaysus, if that too difficult a task I think people really have issues. I find filling up at home far less inconvenient than going to a petrol station, plug in charge at night, job done.

ScumLord

Deleted User wrote: »

Still comparing to ICE range ? I don't get it, the average Irish commute is 16 Kms, throw in the odd trip over 300 Kms this is where fast charging is for.

I know the Model S is supposed to have 600 miles range by 2020 but that's ridiculous, huge waste of resources.

I can't accept that even a busy "mother" with a big family would find it too inconvenient to plug in a car every coupled of days with a 200 mile range car. Even every day jaysus, if that too difficult a task I think people really have issues. I find filling up at home far less inconvenient than going to a petrol station, plug in charge at night, job done.

You should join the marketing campaign for electric cars, I'm sure telling people they have issues if they prefer the convenience and security of combustion would be a great way of convincing them that electric is the way forward.

How is a model S with a range of 600 miles a waste of resources?

CelticRambler

Deleted User wrote: »

A 200 mile commute ? I admit the current 70-80 mile range is a bit low and the 90-105 miles of the 30 Kwh but 200 miles ? the average daily commute driven in Ireland is 16 Kms.

I hardly think the world's auto manufacturers are going to base their development strategy on Ireland's commuters!

200 miles/320km - for me, that's just the first leg of a journey. I work short-term contracts and my last three sites were at 660, 400 and 630km from home. I do that on a single tank of petrol. While I generally take a break every two hours/200km and could afford to wait 30 minutes for a recharge, I certainly don't/wouldn't want to be obliged to have to make it a recharging station which almost inevitably will be on a major route, probably a busy service station and getting there, waiting, getting back onto my preferred route will add perhaps an hour or more to my journey.

I don't think there's any conspiracy against electric cars, but because it's not properly storable (batteries don't count, imo) electricy is probably the most wasteful fuel you can use for powering any vehicle. And that's speaking as a fairly ecologically senstive person.

nokia69

ScumLord wrote: »

How is a model S with a range of 600 miles a waste of resources?

well its just not really needed, we will see a 500km Model S in a year or two and 600km is not that far away

I think most people will be more than happy with 200 or 300 mile ranges, drive for 3 hours, charge for 30min, take a walk, use the jacks, maybe drink a cup of tea, then hit the road again, thats more or less what people do now anyway

nokia69

CelticRambler wrote: »

electricy is probably the most wasteful fuel you can use for powering any vehicle. And that's speaking as a fairly ecologically senstive person.

this is just not true, in an ICE even a very good one, most of your energy is lost and never reaches the wheels

you can't really beat an electric motor for efficiency, its one of the most perfect inventions of all time

and the best part is there are plenty of different ways to generate the electricity that powers the motor

ScumLord

nokia69 wrote: »

well its just not really needed, we will see a 500km Model S in a year or two and 600km is not that far away

I think most people will be more than happy with 200 or 300 mile ranges, drive for 3 hours, charge for 30min, take a walk, use the jacks, maybe drink a cup of tea, then hit the road again, thats more or less what people do now anyway

I wouldn't buy a car with 200 miles range, it simply wouldn't work for me. The capacity of the batteries will go up, as time goes on. By the time the 600km car comes out they'll probably announce something with 700km. That's just progress, the more range the better. If Tesla could do a thousand km on a charge it would be on a par with combustion cars. At that point it's going to be very hard to ignore electric.

I still think charging is always going to be a huge negative. If electric became popular 50 years ago maybe they could live with a 30 minute wait, but modern people just won't go for that. Waiting around for even 30 minutes would drive me daft.

nokia69

ScumLord wrote: »

I wouldn't buy a car with 200 miles range, it simply wouldn't work for me. The capacity of the batteries will go up, as time goes on. By the time the 600km car comes out they'll probably announce something with 700km. That's just progress, the more range the better. If Tesla could do a thousand km on a charge it would be on a par with combustion cars. At that point it's going to be very hard to ignore electric.

I still think charging is always going to be a huge negative. If electric became popular 50 years ago maybe they could live with a 30 minute wait, but modern people just won't go for that. Waiting around for even 30 minutes would drive me daft.

but who does 1000km a day, everyday, its just not needed, Monday to Friday drive to work and back, then on the weekends maybe take longer journeys, thats what the vast majority do

so once people can afford an EV with a 200 mile range many will chose electric, the Model S if proof of this

CelticRambler

nokia69 wrote: »

this is just not true, in an ICE even a very good one, most of your energy is lost and never reaches the wheels

you can't really beat an electric motor for efficiency, its one of the most perfect inventions of all time

You're forgetting to take account of all the energy lost in getting your kWs to the plug (not to mention the environmental impact, e.g. those Aisan clams in the Shannon that they mentioned on the Sean O'Rourke's programme this morning)

nokia69 wrote: »

but who does 1000km a day, everyday, its just not needed

It doesn't have to be an every day need, but when you need it, it has to be there. That's the convenience of petrol/diesel: you can leave the car sitting on the drive (or in a car park) for three weeks and know that it'll be fully "charged" and ready to go the night you decide to set off on a 500/750/1000km journey. And if you think you're going run dry before you get to your destination, you can always bring a full jerry can in the boot (like I did on my last cross-country trip because I didn't want to be messing around with tempermental automatic credit-card pumps at three in the morning)

Besides, anyone who "needs" their car for <20km daily commuting will be using self-driving (electric! ) vehicles before ever there's a long-distance solution.

CelticRambler

CelticRambler wrote: »

You're forgetting to take account of all the energy lost in getting your kWs to the plug (not to mention the environmental impact, e.g. those Aisan clams in the Shannon that they mentioned on the Sean O'Rourke's programme this morning)

You're forgetting all the energy lost in the refining of petrol and diesel and the wasted LPG burned off at the refinery not to mention the toxic chemicals used. Then the transportation of this fuel to the petrol stations or the transport of Crude in big oil tankers. Electric wins by miles. Then the Engine burns that fuel at only 20-35 % efficiency.

Electric increases generation efficiency by being able to use excess energy at night and use the wind that would need to be turned off because there is no use for it. There are a good few windy days 30-50% of our electricity comes from wind alone, that's a staggering amount and even though there are days where it's generally calm it greatly reduces our need for imported fossil fuels this wind energy is increasing all the time. We have a lot of generating capacity for many thousands of electrics to charge at night.

CelticRambler wrote: »

but when you need it, it has to be there.

That capacity will be there when you need it because you will most likely not need this full capacity daily and use maybe 20-50 miles out of 200 max, first charge at 200 miles, 170 miles in 30 mins , that's a lot of miles in one day.

My not be suitable for you, but it would be for the majority of people.

nokia69

CelticRambler wrote: »

You're forgetting to take account of all the energy lost in getting your kWs to the plug (not to mention the environmental impact, e.g. those Aisan clams in the Shannon that they mentioned on the Sean O'Rourke's programme this morning)

I'm aware of transmission loses, it doesn't make enough of a difference to bridge the gap between the ICE and an electric motor, people run the numbers on this stuff all the time, the BEV always wins

MrPudding

nokia69 wrote: »

that is a big difference, but the difference in cost is massive too, and most people only drive 600km in one go a few times a year, last week a friend of mine went from Dublin to Sligo and back for free in his Leaf

there are times when its obvious that a tech change is about to take place, for example it was clear when DVDs went on sale that VHS was finished, even when the early DVD players cost over 1000 pounds, it was still clear what was going to happen, I saw a DVD player in Tesco last week for 20 euro, its the same with EVs, it will take a while because cars are expensive, if you test drive a Nissan Leaf you might understand what I mean better




there are electric trucks in the works, look it up on youtube

the Model S is becoming popular in the UK for some business people doing high mileage, the fuel savings over the life of the car are massive, and the performance is even better then the same price BMWs Audi ect, one calculation I saw said that over 5 years a Model S would save over £20K in fuel costs next to the same priced BMW I

the electric car won't be stopped now, the ICE is finished

I did Buckingham to Edinburgh and back in my Zoe. In total that cost me just under £2.50.

Also. I have never, in over a year of EV ownership, forgotten to charge my car. I have 4 kids, a full time job and I am studying as well. I am the definition of busy, yet we always manage.

I am quite lucky living where I am. My home electricity is from 100% renewable. It is a little pricier, but I don't mind paying a small premium. The network of rapid chargers I use for out of range trips, which I do quite frequently, are also 100% renewable. Same company in fact, but the network of rapid chargers is free to use.

Using an electric car does take a little adjustment, it it is t difficult and it isn't that much of a pain. Swapping all the little journeys where we don't need 7 seats from our voyager to the Zoe saves us hundreds of pounds a month. And all it takes is a little readjustment.

EVs would, realistically, suit an huge number of people. But people are too unsure and not will to actually make the effort to really look at it, and/or not willing to make the relativly minor changes they would need to reap the benefits.

20% of new car sales in Norway last year were EV. They don't have different cars or battery technology than is on offer in Ireland or the UK. I would be willing to speculate the the typical journeys most people take are pretty similar too. They simply have a government that is willing to invest in the infrastructure and education that is needed.

If your attitude is "my vehicle need to have a range of 1000kms" even though you have never driven 1000kms in a single sitting in your life, or you think that plugging your car into a wall socket when you get home is too demanding and a little too complicated to manage, then you are probably right, EVs aren't for you. Which is a shame.

MrP

CelticRambler

nokia69 wrote: »

I'm aware of transmission loses, it doesn't make enough of a difference to bridge the gap between the ICE and an electric motor, people run the numbers on this stuff all the time, the BEV always wins

I'm not talking about just transmission losses, but the whole supply chain. However, that's a topic that's been done to death on other threads, and some people are still convinced that electricity is inherently green and clean! :pac:

Deleted User wrote: »

That capacity will be there when you need it because you will most likely not need this full capacity daily and use maybe 20-50 miles out of 200 max, first charge at 200 miles, 170 miles in 30 mins , that's a lot of miles in one day.

My not be suitable for you, but it would be for the majority of people.

MrPudding wrote: »

If your attitude is "my vehicle need to have a range of 1000kms" even though you have never driven 1000kms in a single sitting in your life, or you think that plugging your car into a wall socket when you get home is too demanding and a little too complicated to manage, then you are probably right, EVs aren't for you. Which is a shame.

Both of these statements illustrate an Irish myopia - a bit like people getting all het up about this morning's "carmageddon" and traffic backed up for ten or fifteen km. :rolleyes: Here on the continent, we regularly get tailbacks on our motorways of 50 to 100km, and it's perfectly normal for people to drive 500-1000km in a single day. Paris to Marseille is 750km and that's a route where co-voiturage (car sharing) is really popular. Most families operate a "relief driver" system to cut down on the journey times. You need to forget about quick flits from Dublin to Galway as the "typical driver" model and look at how the left-hand drivers use their vehicles.

Even if it was theoretically possible to set out with a full charge, get 300km down the road and then re-charge in 30 minutes, what's that going to do? I'll have everyone arriving at the same point on the major commuter axes, expecting to plug in AND stay plugged in for at least half an hour, all drawing current at the same time. You're talking hundreds of vehicles, thousands of megawatts and an awful lot of new tarmac being laid to cope with these pitstops. Who's going to pay for that?

MrPudding wrote: »

EVs would, realistically, suit an huge number of people. But people are too unsure and not will to actually make the effort to really look at it, and/or not willing to make the relativly minor changes they would need to reap the benefits.

Agreed - there are a huge number of people that EVs would suit. And these are exactly the same people that will want/need/benefit from small(er) self-driving vehicles, so that's where the investment and research is being directed.

I forgot , because I never forgot to plug in the leaf I never thought of it.

I you have a timer set and forget to plug in the car it will E-mail you to tell you to plug it in, no excuse !

nokia69

CelticRambler wrote: »

I'm not talking about just transmission losses, but the whole supply chain. However, that's a topic that's been done to death on other threads, and some people are still convinced that electricity is inherently green and clean! :pac:

some people might be, but I'm not one of them, it can be generated by so many different sources some clean some filthy

however when it comes to transport its cleaner than Petrol or Diesel

nokia69

nokia69 wrote: »

some people might be, but I'm not one of them, it can be generated by so many different sources some clean some filthy

however when it comes to transport its cleaner than Petrol or Diesel

Many times cleaner, Crude is transported from the oil wells to the refineries, thats a lot of energy, then refined, again, a lot of energy not to mention the chemicals used and the LPG that't burned off. Then it's transported to the petrol stations and burned in cars at 20-35 % efficiency at best. Less with so many short trips driven. Why not use that electricity used at the refineries to charge batteries ?

The last few nights up to 50% of Ireland's electricity has been met by wind and there are many nights up to 50% has powered the leaf, today 45% of our energy has come from wind, at least for peak production, currently 45 % is still coming from wind. There's no way petrol, diesel or hydrogen is remotely as clean and the leaf uses that energy at up to 85% efficiency. Yes there are days the wind production is 3-5% but Ireland on average is a windy place and a lot more than it's not and we're adding more wind energy year after year but we do need to start adding solar which is many times cheaper and yes, Solar PV does work in Ireland, maybe not as good as Spain but considering the cost is substantially cheaper than wind we should not ignore it.

shedweller

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I forgot , because I never forgot to plug in the leaf I never thought of it.

I you have a timer set and forget to plug in the car it will E-mail you to tell you to plug it in, no excuse !

We dont see people complaining too much about having to recharge their phones. Recharging a car is barely a bigger deal. And your phone doesn't email you.
You just see 10% on the battery logo and go "feck! Need plug!!"
Nah, all this negativity to ev's is propaganda. There's a lot to be lost by us all going ev.