Anyone else not want children?

Femme_Fatale

kunst nugget wrote: »

How many people are having kids they don't want to appease society? From reading this, you'd swear it was every second person out there.

Nah I think what people mean is that it's not a good idea to have children if you don't want them, just because you feel it's the thing you're supposed to do in order not to look selfish. I've no doubt that's rare nowadays though.

ibarelycare wrote: »

Huh?

They just seem to post ream upon ream of incomprehensible babble.

**Vai** wrote: »

I think you can say that for a 16 year old. By the time you reach your mid 20's, you should have the cop on to know what you do and do not want.

Ah now, you could easily change your mind, because of circumstances, in your early 30s. I would say you'd need at least another five years to know exactly what you want when it comes to having children.

OldNotWIse

**Vai** wrote: »

Ive a couple of rescues myself but I don't think they found me! I just meant that in a very basic sense, its for the same reasons. Not to carry on the bloodline obviously but for love and companionship. You wouldn't have taken them in if you didn't want that feeling from them.

I took them in because I didn't want them to die on the street, not because I wanted a feeling of love and companionship from them. Of course that follows, but it certainly wasn't the driving force behind my decision to take them in.

**Vai**

@Femme Fatale; Depends on the person I suppose. I knew a long time ago but I sure there are folks in their late 30s/early 40s who still don't.

**Vai**

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I took them in because I didn't want them to die on the street, not because I wanted a feeling of love and companionship from them. Of course that follows, but it certainly wasn't the driving force behind my decision to take them in.

Well no, you take them in out of kindness but its not entirely selfless either. People who don't like animals for example, wouldn't take them in, wouldn't even think twice about it. Slightly off topic anyway, apologies!

wolfpawnat

I think my son tantruming on the bus about 10 minutes ago has, at the very least, caused people to reconsider ever having kids if they were considering it in the first place.

Ruudi_Mentari

ibarelycare wrote: »

Huh?

Thaaat right I said that.

is what I feel... for there is no logic, in love.

bronte

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3442/3951585990_6999e7f280.jpg

Nearly have the full card.

**Vai**

bronte wrote: »

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3442/3951585990_6999e7f280.jpg

Nearly have the full card.

"Your child could cure cancer" and I think we're there!

OldNotWIse

**Vai** wrote: »

Well no, you take them in out of kindness but its not entirely selfless either. People who don't like animals for example, wouldn't take them in, wouldn't even think twice about it. Slightly off topic anyway, apologies!

Yes, kindness because I cared about what happened to them, not me. I'm sorry but I dont get how that is selfish at all.

**Vai**

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Yes, kindness because I cared about what happened to them, not me. I'm sorry but I dont get how that is selfish at all.

You are getting something out of the deal too, that's all I meant. It cant be truly selfless if you get something out of it.

Ruudi_Mentari

How is it, some people fail to realize true love and understanding.

wolfpawnat

What has to be remembered too is if someone wants a child, they are selfish if they just want one in many people's eyes too. There is no winning. I was called selfish and mean for not wanting anymore kids.

OneArt

To be perfectly honest, and I know it sounds terrible, but there are too many people in the world. People really should stop having so many f*cking kids. I understand that it's a natural evolutionary thing yada, yada, but it's going to start causing a strain on the world's resources. And that's when nature kicks in and sends in pandemics.

I don't want kids at the moment. I don't think I'll want them in ten years. There's too much I want to do with my life than have to look after a child. Is it selfish? Yes, but it's my life and I'll be selfish if I want as long as I'm not hurting anyone else. Me not reproducing isn't going to be of any detriment to the world.

I may want kids in the far future and if I do, I think I'll probably just adopt. There are plenty of parents who don't want or can't look after the children that they have. I think it'd be much better for the world if more people took to adopting rather than having their own kids. I'm not saying everyone should do this or that it should be law, but in my opinion it makes a bit of sense and can help to ease the population booms.

I know adoption is difficult as well, don't get me wrong. I just think if I am going to have a child in the future I would much rather adopt.

Ruudi_Mentari

wolfpawnat wrote: »

What has to be remembered too is if someone wants a child, they are selfish if they just want one in many people's eyes too. There is no winning. I was called selfish and mean for not wanting anymore kids.

Once you escape the self, you are no longer selfish. Hell you might not even be selfish in what is a predicament

maybe you have difficult relations and they want to project their own bullshìt on you in leaving you feeling never accomplished

wolfpawnat

Ruudi_Mentari wrote: »

Once you escape the self, you are no longer selfish. Hell you might not even be selfish in what is a predicament

maybe you have difficult relations and they want to project their own bullshìt on you in leaving you feeling never accomplished

Oh, even random people in the street. "Is he your only one?" you say yes the one and more than likely only (well not anymore, I am pregnant with another) but when I said I was happy with one, they always say "You can't do that, he needs siblings"

According to my MIL I am now selfish for having another But she genuinely is, as you said, trying to make me feel like I am never able to accomplish anything. No matter what I would do, it would be wrong.

Ruudi_Mentari

yeap...

Difficult relations; across the board. Listen honey I know that feeling...

OldNotWIse

**Vai** wrote: »

You are getting something out of the deal too, that's all I meant. It cant be truly selfless if you get something out of it.

What? Are we descending into some sort of philosphical debate about altruism now?

You said that people get animals for the same reason they have kids - for selfish reasons. I pointed out that I didnt get mine for selfish reasons (I didnt "get" them at all, they "got" me). Then you said I got them for companionship. Again, not true. I simply wanted to make a better life for them. Trust me my life would be far less complicated if I only had myself to worry about! Yet you are still insisting that I am doing it for some ulterior motive. I'm not, and I dont know how to explain that too you any more clearly

OldNotWIse

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Oh, even random people in the street. "Is he your only one?" you say yes the one and more than likely only (well not anymore, I am pregnant with another) but when I said I was happy with one, they always say "You can't do that, he needs siblings"

According to my MIL I am now selfish for having another But she genuinely is, as you said, trying to make me feel like I am never able to accomplish anything. No matter what I would do, it would be wrong.

Meddlers are so annoying :mad: You should have said, "yes he is our only one...we dont need to go again...we got it perfect the first time"

Ruudi_Mentari

wolfpawnat wrote: »

According to my MIL I am now selfish for having another But she genuinely is, as you said, trying to make me feel like I am never able to accomplish anything. No matter what I would do, it would be wrong.

You know for a moment, I thought you were a guy. At which point i would have told you to disregard everything i said -

I'm not a helpline; I'm just trying to get laid.

**Vai**

OldNotWIse wrote: »

What? Are we descending into some sort of philosphical debate about altruism now?

You said that people get animals for the same reason they have kids - for selfish reasons. I pointed out that I didnt get mine for selfish reasons (I didnt "get" them at all, they "got" me). Then you said I got them for companionship. Again, not true. I simply wanted to make a better life for them. Trust me my life would be far less complicated if I only had myself to worry about! Yet you are still insisting that I am doing it for some ulterior motive. I'm not, and I dont know how to explain that too you any more clearly

I think we are thinking in very different ways. You seem to be taking offence to what im saying when I mean no offence. I am in the same boat afterall. It would be very people in glasshouses of me.
If you are totally selfless then fair play but you would be the first selfless human I have ever known. Again I dont mean that as an insult just as a fact of human nature.

December2012

old hippy wrote: »

How would putting myself first over a non existent child that I don't want to have be selfish?

It wouldn't be. That's what I said.

old hippy

December2012 wrote: »

It wouldn't be. That's what I said.

Oh, right.

smiley_face400

OneArt wrote: »

I don't want kids at the moment. I don't think I'll want them in ten years. There's too much I want to do with my life than have to look after a child. Is it selfish? Yes, but it's my life and I'll be selfish if I want as long as I'm not hurting anyone else. Me not reproducing isn't going to be of any detriment to the world.
.

Exactly. You have to do what makes you happy and if having kids is what makes people happy then they can go for it but that doesn't mean we all should be doing it.

Not being a maternal/paternal person doesn't mean you're not a loving one. I love my bf and my family, I even love some of my friends like family we're that close. Just because you don't want to have children doesn't impede your ability to love others

wolfpawnat

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Meddlers are so annoying :mad: You should have said, "yes he is our only one...we dont need to go again...we got it perfect the first time"

Meddlers are hilarious "So you'll leave it at two if this is a girl" or "You'll go again if this is another boy" What the hell has gender to do with numbers that you will have. Pressures to have either even numbers of both or at least one of each gender is just as mad!

Addle

I've had a strange reaction to Maura Derrane's pregnancy announcement today.
I'm disappointed by her!!!
Ridiculous, I know.
But I liked when she was getting publicity a few months ago about her interview about not having kids. It was like she gave women like me a voice!!!

Galwayguy35

Addle wrote: »

I've had a strange reaction to Maura Derrane's pregnancy announcement today.
I'm disappointed by her!!!
Ridiculous, I know.
But I liked when she was getting publicity a few months ago about her interview about not having kids. It was like she gave women like me a voice!!!

Why would you need a "voice" for a personal decision on whether to have kids or not?

Addle

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Why would you need a "voice" for a personal decision on whether to have kids or not?

Voice probably isn't the best word, but it's a topic I don't think I'd ever read discussed in a national newspaper before, and I liked that it was out there.
Now, to me, she's just another person who says they don't want kids, until they have them.

XxMCRxBabyxX

Addle wrote: »

Voice probably isn't the best word, but it's a topic I don't think I'd ever read discussed in a national newspaper before, and I liked that it was out there.
Now, to me, she's just another person who says they don't want kids, until they have them.

Perhaps she wasn't planning on them and then found out that she was pregnant? She can hardly come out to the public and say that she doesn't want the baby but is having it anyway.

Addle

I wrote myself that I thought my reaction was ridiculous! But I can't help how I felt.

OldNotWIse

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Meddlers are hilarious "So you'll leave it at two if this is a girl" or "You'll go again if this is another boy" What the hell has gender to do with numbers that you will have. Pressures to have either even numbers of both or at least one of each gender is just as mad!

An old friend of mine has a five year old and has just got married. The man she married is not the biological father of her child, although he is the father figure. Anyway, in conversation one day my Mother said something like, "oh well they'll have to get a bigger place now that they are married". I asked why and she said, " well they are married now so they'll probably have another one. Why else would they have got married??" I'm like, "er...because they love each other?" - the weird generation of the "marriage is for procreation" school of thought. :rolleyes:

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

but marriage is for procreation...
marrying for love is a very modern idea (and even then only in some parts of the world) and there's no guarantees it's going to stick around

FairytaleGirl

26yr old female here!
Absolutely no desire to have kid's, like none.
There are plenty of kids and babies in my family and I love them to pieces but I have zero inclination to do it full time.

Good job I'm gay and accidents cannot be had!haha!

Porkpie

Pretty sure I'll never want children, couldn't be bothered with the responsibility, the worry, and all the sleepless nights. Besides that, and I hate to sound negative but I don't think this is a good country to raise kids in. It's not safe in most towns, too many scumbags around free to commit unprovoked attacks and mindless vandalism, the health service is a joke, I could go on but don't want to sound like a total moan.

Would I be right in saying that most women want children, but fellas are generally not really that bothered?

I'm 33 and haven't met Ms Wrong yet, so who knows, maybe I'll feel differently in time.

Paddy Cow

Porkpie wrote: »

Pretty sure I'll never want children, couldn't be bothered with the responsibility, the worry, and all the sleepless nights. Besides that, and I hate to sound negative but I don't think this is a good country to raise kids in. It's not safe in most towns, too many scumbags around free to commit unprovoked attacks and mindless vandalism, the health service is a joke, I could go on but don't want to sound like a total moan.

Would I be right in saying that most women want children, but fellas are generally not really that bothered?

I'm 33 and haven't met Ms Wrong yet, so who knows, maybe I'll feel differently in time.

I wouldn't say that. It probably seems like woman want them more because we are more restricted by nature than men. Men don't have the "biological clock" hanging over their heads so they don't have the same pressure to decide. It's well known that a woman's fertility starts to decrease around 35 and after 40 it can be difficult to get pregnant. Whereas with men, they can father a child until quite late in life.

Take me for example. I'm nearly 33 and on the fence about kids. I'm not broody but I would hate to get broody down the line and find out that I had left it too late.

Addle

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Take me for example. I'm nearly 33 and on the fence about kids. I'm not broody but I would hate to get broody down the line and find out that I had left it too late.

Better regret doing something than regret not doing it?!

OldNotWIse

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

but marriage is for procreation...
marrying for love is a very modern idea (and even then only in some parts of the world) and there's no guarantees it's going to stick around

There's also no guarantee your kids wont grow up to be junkie whores and turf you into a care home when you're too sick and old to wipe your own backside...but people still do it.

seamus

Porkpie wrote: »

Would I be right in saying that most women want children, but fellas are generally not really that bothered?

That's the stereotype, but I don't think it holds true. For every woman who's afraid to admit to her friends that the idea of kids makes her feel sick, there's a guy who's full of "bleeding kids" bravado around his mates, who secretly wants to be a stay-at-home Dad.

There's a Billy Connolly joke that "Women have children, men are vaguely aware of some short people who live in their house".

But that comes from an older time where the roles of men and women were strictly defined by society. A woman out working was as abhorrent as a man sitting on the floor playing games with his children. Think of the father in Mary Poppins.

This attitude has changed - a man playing with his kids is essential now, but at the same time the stereotype of the reluctant father and the broody mother persists, even though it's not nearly as widespread as people like to think. There are just as many reluctant mothers and broody fathers out there.

beauf

A younger person is better able (in general) to deal with physical aspects of having kids. The lifting, lack of sleep. Extra work. Chasing them around a fields. Etc.

Paddy Cow

Addle wrote: »

Better regret doing something than regret not doing it?!

I'm a single mature student atm. I can barely afford to pay my bills. It would be totally irresponsible of me to get pregnant in the foreseeable future. It's not just about want I want but what I could provide for a child. I know they say there's never a right time to have a child but I don't think it would be fair on my part to bring a child into the world right now just so I don't regret it later.

kunst nugget

beauf wrote: »

A younger person is better able (in general) to deal with physical aspects of having kids. Chasing them around a fields. Etc.

Yeah, herding children is a bitch…

cocker5

I don’t think “most women” want children I think they kinda go with the flow and in good ole Ireland its what’s your supposed to do… have children and lots of them.
It’s irrelevant if you can afford them (ahh sure you’ll get by) or if you can offer them a stable / loving home (sure they’ll be grand).

Speaking from experience as soon as your married it’s the “when you having them” then when people have one (not from experience) it’s the you’ll have to have a sister or brother soon.

IMO I think there are some people who do regret having children, to which they wouldn’t admit as its not acceptable to say things like that etc.
It must be a terrible feeling…..

IMO it’s better to regret not having them, then have them and regret it….
it’s something you can never get away from whereas if you don’t have them occasionally it will cross your mind you regret it, but it won’t be there in your face day in day out – wishing you made different choices!

Personally I think they are lots of people who don’t really want children but feel under tremendous pressure to conform with the “Irish Norm” .

OldNotWIse

Definitely too much pressure to tick the boxes in this country. I always wanted 3 children, but plan on just having one and actually being able to afford to feed and educate it. The problem is timing. I want at least another 8 years of being child free (to get my sh1t together and enjoy my life) but I also want to have it before I'm 35. The maths doesn't add up though...cause I'm 30! :mad:

fatknacker

cocker5 wrote: »

I don’t think “most women” want children I think they kinda go with the flow and in good ole Ireland its what’s your supposed to do… have children and lots of them.

As opposed to most women in every other country around the world?

Paddy Cow

cocker5 wrote: »

IMO I think there are some people who do regret having children, to which they wouldn’t admit as its not acceptable to say things like that etc.
It must be a terrible feeling…..

I think that would be an interesting discussion. We apparently live in enlightened times where people have choices but if you chose not to have children you will be judged. It is semi-acceptable to say you don't want to have children but to have had children and say you wish you did it differently :eek: There must be parents out there who have kids and regret it but can't say it for fear of social ostracisation.

cocker5

fatknacker wrote: »

As opposed to most women in every other country around the world?

Yes as opposed... as in many societies around the world they have children yes, but not lots of them like we do here....

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ireland-has-highest-birth-rate-in-the-eu-1.1553211

IMO many societies (not 3rd world) around the world are more responsible when it comes to having kids.... they have one or maybe two.... and stop but in Ireland many ... many people with little or no resources have 3...4...5... kids... now thats really irresponsible...

cocker5

Paddy Cow wrote: »

I think that would be an interesting discussion. We apparently live in enlightened times where people have choices but if you chose not to have children you will be judged. It is semi-acceptable to say you don't want to have children but to have had children and say you wish you did it differently :eek: There must be parents out there who have kids and regret it but can't say it for fear of social ostracisation.

Exactly... Im not even sure it is semi-acceptable to say you dont want kids- you should see the looks and comments.... my favourite one being "ahh your too selfish"

But to actually admit its a regret after the fact... my god there would be blue murder... with social services being informed...

seamus

cocker5 wrote: »

Yes as opposed... as in many societies around the world they have children yes, but not lots of them like we do here....

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ireland-has-highest-birth-rate-in-the-eu-1.1553211

IMO many societies (not 3rd world) around the world are more responsible when it comes to having kids.... they have one or maybe two.... and stop but in Ireland many ... many people with little or no resources have 3...4...5... kids... now thats really irresponsible...

That's a philosophical rather than a factual debate. Having children isn't inherently "wrong" if you're not flush with cash. 99.99999% of all people ever born, were born to parents with very little means.

In other countries where people are having or two and then stopping, there's a debate about how to encourage people to have more children. Dropping birth rates pose large economic question marks over long-term sustainability.

At present, the average family size in Ireland is 1.4 children. That's actually a bad number. The "ideal" from an economic POV is between 2 and 4.

Having one or two and then stopping because you're "done", isn't necessarily responsible. It depends on your point of view.

You're right in your above post though - there are still far too many people who think that they have a right to interfere in other people's reproductive choices. Or to even ask about them.

snowbabe

This thread is from last year ,anyone know if OP did get married last october or will we find him in the parenting forum?

cocker5

Having children isn't inherently "wrong" if you're not flush with cash.

I never said being flush with cash.... but having the means to feed, Cloth, educate etc your own children yourself instead of being like LOTS of people in Ireland and depending on the state to provide this for your child.. Education is one thing... but the rest is just iiresponsible and selfish IMO

snowbabe

Sorry just realised Op banned